podcasting 2.0 for April 2 2021, Episode 31 we're cooking with
gas you know how to like the stove that is no electricity
gets harder right? Everybody has Friday once again time for the
board meaning of podcasting 2.0 everything that's going on at
podcast index.org You are welcome Come on in we've got
your seat ready we got a lot to talk about today and we have
another assessor of the board so it's always good to have a guest
on I'm Adam Curry here in Austin Texas and now in Alabama the man
all the ladies want to rebalance their channels with my friend on
the other end ladies gentlemen
not that's it that's in the cards if it's about money that's
that's the ladies come on Dave the ladies love them some dev
from from the south. Do you
think will you think we're gonna win and ambi
and Andy? Yeah, no, I I can quite confidently say you that
there is 0.1% chance of us ever winning an award
at all. It's just how you define your categories. If you slip
your category like if you reduce your category footprint down as
low as possible to the to the smallest niche you could win
that's it you went you lower the bar until you achieve success
now our our category is most listeners for a podcast that
does not exist in it
yeah that is kind of weird the way that's worked out well and
with with award shows the way to do it is you create an award
show and then give yourself all the awards this is the art What
is it the gosh what's that big industry award they're always
handing out but the airlines always have in the car companies
have the jD
jD power awards yeah you pay for you pay and you get what kind of
statue Do you want you want a nice trophy or do you want just
the Lucite one you can say more than you that's how you do it.
It's like the I art radio you got all these awards but the
enemies that's the podcast Academy right
yeah, I'm just thinking that that I mean that category
specifically has got to be just like us and like I don't
we we can't be a part of the NBA because we're not diverse
enough.
Oh yeah. Well that's true.
Yeah, this to two white guys you know you don't get an bs for
that stuff, man. It's not how it
works. There's no other podcast with that demographic by the
way.
Really, no that's not true as a lot of white girls doing
podcasting to
a diverse podcast is Nina Anita posh. Oh,
the What's her Bitcoin podcast called again? It's I subscribe
to it so I should know coin
and Bitcoin and co yes Bitcoin company. I like it.
You know she has a very oddly appealing presentation style you
know the accent and everything. There's something about it that
I that I just kind of like
and she she fit in. You get all these like interview podcasts
that have just sort of the same people making the same rounds.
And she had she digs up people that are like, you I've never
heard of half the people that she interviews people you know
people that are like from West Africa doing Bitcoin? Yeah,
stuff. I mean, like it. She really digs up some cool people.
I think it's a neat posh show is what it's called, at least has
to what I what I'm subscribed to.
I think she has to, oh, okay shows if I'm not wrong,
and well, I gotta look. I gotta look at that.
But this just falls into the bucket of Dave says things that
are that are absolutely wrong with extreme confidence.
factcheck false. Like, you know, okay, so irata a piece of errata
here. Yes. I said that audible is not support chapter titles.
That is, that is wrong. They do.
Oh, okay.
Well, if you say it, but if you say it forcefully enough. It
made it. It's, it's true.
Yes. No, just keep repeating it. That'll work. Yeah. All you
cheapskates out there immediately go to your value
sliders, crank them up. Come on, I see you on breeze and get us
past 10 sets a minute you can crank that up. You might as well
boost if you feel like it. Ah, feels so good to be receiving
all those little SATs dripping in every single day. 24 seven
now, Dave? It doesn't stop. You see it? How about pod friend?
Okay, so this was what I've been waiting for. pod friend released
today, including value from value streaming. And it's I
think Martin did the right thing. So let me just get
something out to you can't change the the boost or the
sastra minute yet. And I'm missing an overview of what's
been spent But Holy crap, best if there was an ambi for best
onboarding, that would be, that would be it. I mean, I was up
and running in 25 seconds. That's how that's and I already
have the app they just it appeared all of a sudden,
there's every podcast that is value block enabled has a little
button right there and surface just like the funding tag was
beautiful. I'm not sure I've ever been so happy.
giving money.
I know, I know. I would I Oh, my God is working as a team in this
morning's like. Where's my update? It's not it's not on
iOS? Yeah. discriminated against again. Yeah, yeah, but go ahead.
No, I like that. I think it was delightful. That's the best word
that I can use to describe for me just going through the
wizard. Like step by step. It's like, here's what's gonna
happen. You know, here's what you're about to do. You're about
to give money away. Oh, yeah.
This is total pod friend. Friendly language.
It is it is. And I think that's the like how you can just enable
it and disable it. It's like you're halfway through and
you're like, I don't even I'm not sure what this is. Okay, I'm
out of turn it off and
done. Exactly. Yeah. The. And I liked that onboarding, without
the whole Bitcoin piece just with the lightning piece, which
you can send it from cash app. Now you put stripe in there. Did
he mean to say strike?
I think so. You think
so too. I think he mentioned strike instead of stripe. There.
And I know that you That was the funniest thing this past week.
JACK Mahler's from the strike app all of a sudden. And then by
the way, this is how it works. And this is what I've always
said. It's always the content. It's always the marketing comes
from the podcast listeners and podcasters themselves. And one
of the one of our 2.0 value podcasters, who was set up over
there on Satoshi streams.com, which also needs to be talked
about holy crap. They figured out the statistics part. She
posts I think she I don't know who it was, but posted. Wow,
I've already made more money in value for value streaming
payments than I did with advertising. This is the future.
And then jack Mahler's from strike app saw that. We talked
two months ago. And and he said, Wow, this is great. Does anyone
know where there's a spec? How do I implement this? And I would
say, hey, jack, hey, and I posted a link to the to the
GitHub, and you followed up with him?
Yes, in an email earlier, that just send an email, like it was
basically a reply to the reply that we had already had it in
our thread with you. Right, right, right. And I just said,
Here's, by the way, here are the API calls, you need to do this.
It's just like these three or four calls. And, you know, here
you go via if you get any more questions, holler.
But even that, I mean, even if he would just, I mean, it's a
perfect on ramp for getting SATs into any of these wallets. I
mean, it's, it's, it's really the way to go instead of
necessarily buying Bitcoin outright. It's just an
interesting process. You know, it's really interesting.
And I won't claim to know, a ton about strike, other than just
what I've heard jack described. And so I think, I think that is
going to be the way that lightning in enters the the
ecosystem. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Because it and people
will get aggravated, because it doesn't show you your SATs
balance. But I think that's the that's the that's, that's on
purpose. Because like if you, if you're there in a strike is not
a currency exchange. Like they're not a conversion system,
they use lightning as just a transport mechanism. They're
real, they're real business is to be able to send currency fiat
currency from one place to another. So they, what happens
when you when you buy strike, when you when you buy some
currency on strike and send it to another strike user, you're,
you're they convert that theat into into lightning, send it to
the other country, convert it back into the local fiat
currency at the current exchange rate, and then credit the other
strike user, that's why it's not available globally, right. It's
basically they're just doing current they're doing transport
over the lightning network. And the sad benefit that you get
from that is because under the covers as lightning, you can
also pay lightning invoices with a yes. But that's why they don't
show you I sat and balances because it's not a current. It's
not a Bitcoin exchange. It's a it's, it's Venmo Venmo
Yes, it's Venmo and in fact, you don't even buy currency with
them. you hook it up to your debit card or your bank account
the same way do Venmo which by the way, has a lot of downside
from the security. Freedom, etc. But that doesn't matter to me.
And we do need to talk about these things. So when you either
transfer, it feels like you're transferring it from your debit
card or from your bank. And it doesn't really matter how it
gets to the other end. But in this case, it also just works as
a straight up mechanisms like oh, I just want to I just want
to top up my podcast wallet. And oh, my God, the invoice that
that is the piece that I agree with. You blew me away with pod
friend. It's like you want enable it? Yes. Or enabled.
Boom, hold on a second. And here's how you do it. And here's
your invoice. And I just flipped over to what app that I use, I
use to Sphinx app. And it popped right up and said, Oh, I'm ready
to send 20 20,000 SATs. Good to go. boom, done. And then I
switch back to pod friends and I got a spew of confetti.
Yeah. Yeah. I like that.
Like, confetti splooge. I got a must have received it. And for
some reason, it's it just feels tight. Man, it feels he can't
even explain that. It feels tight how it works. And then it
just does it and it does it the way you expect it. And the I was
like, Okay, I boosted it's gone. I can see this gone. Done.
That's fine. Now we just need to have I want to know how much
value I transferred to each podcast. As I said, That's, I
think that's an important loop closer. Which the sliders need
to be there too. And well, I mean, he has the variables are
non changeable at the moment. So really, the boost amount is too
high. And the per minute rate is too low. I'm a fighter. I'm a
500 sat booster, and I'm 100 satta minute guy, that's kind of
my comfort zone. knob. So I know I'm going to be boosting most
podcasts at least four times. So, so there's a 2000 what I am,
see what kind of guy are you actually Dave Jones? I'm a 133.
Booth. And that's the thing and and yes, I'm a 333 on swings and
here's the thing with the breeze app, you can't do the
numerology. This is and I told Roy said Oh, man, this there's
two pieces missing one you can't baller against everybody because
no one knows that you did that. Which is problem one like in
swings. Everyone sees what you're doing. And you can't you
can't do a custom amount that that's what people want. They
want they want to be recognizable. That's an early,
an early code indicator that people really want to use like,
Oh, I when I see 133 come through. I know that's from
Dave.
Yeah, yeah, it's like it's your, it's your idea is the other part
of your identity. Okay, I'm 100. But I'm 100 set on breweries and
a 50. Set, I'm 100 set boost and a 50. Set per minute on breeze.
Yeah, achieved something and achieved losers.
So about identity, and it's just something I wanted to throw out
there. Moe is kind of my a canary in the coal mine. And
he's the guy that told me about clubhouse months before became
popular. And he has a very specific set of ideas from his
youth, his experience as a YouTuber. What what the audience
is looking for? And it's not video, by the way. It's really
the chat if people want to leave comments, want to chat. The idea
of the Super Chat with Chinua as a paid comment, all of that
stuff.
So that's where that's where and that's where Twitch, like, rose
up because they I think they did that. Exactly.
Exactly. Exactly. So I got him on the Sphinx app. He's seen
SATs coming in. He's delighted he and but he really thought
about it. And he said, you know, here's what and it was part of
what max Kaiser said, he said, here's what really hit me. He
says, My identity might and who I am as a as a broadcaster,
regardless of whether it's you know, how it's done. He says
it's really my feed, isn't it? Is my feed is my life. And it
contains my payment information. And Shouldn't I just have this
is why I want to throw it out there just shouldn't I just have
a feed that anyone can get through a QR code? And depending
on what you're doing, so if it's a podcast app, it sucks in only
the podcast if it's a if it's some if it's a blog, or some
other type of we don't have them anymore but a something that
could just read an RSS feed. It would only take those pieces
pictures would show up perhaps in a in a mastodon. What's that
called? The not called pixel but there's a kind of like an
Instagram knockoff on mastodon,
but he Oh, that does the embedding. Yeah.
And so but his it's, it's interesting, because that, to me
was a throwback to almost 20 years ago. That's exactly what
we were talking about. Everybody will have their feed and you own
your feed, which you do. If you're not an anchor, you own
your feed. And that's your identity. And that's really the
value. And you know, and the whole idea of flashing a QR
code, something was there that really struck me at a deep level
that we're not we forgotten to think about, I guess, to make
any sense
specifically about the QR code and being able to like that. No,
just being your Well,
just your feed being your entire identity, and it'd be a go
beyond podcasting.
Yeah. Now, I can see that because we, I think we had that
failing back with the freedom controller, because that's why
we put those QR codes.
Yes, you're right.
You're right. Because there's some kind of thing that says,
This is like, I don't know, I know what you're saying. It's
something about I think the QR code has this feeling where it's
like an anchor to something, there's not going to ever go
away. Like it feels like it's a permanent sort of declaration of
this. This entity. It's almost like, like an NF t type
experience. And I know you're not specifically talking about
just the QR code, but I mean, like it, it I think it expresses
that expresses the feeling of what's behind it, which is a is
read as one sort of blob of data with it with a QR code human.
Did you Are you okay? Yeah, no,
I lost for a second with you mean that the QR code represents
that?
Yeah, like, well, it represent, it's what it represents. It
represents this this location or this brand identity. And it
could be the feed or whatever it is, but then the QR code is just
sort of like this visual representation of this thing.
Right? that exists somewhere else. It's like a bundle of
information about
Ah, yeah, it's like a fiber optic nerve ending. There's
like, if I just if I just connect to that, then I'm going
to connect to this pipe somehow. This blob of stuff. Yeah. Yeah.
Like,
maybe we should take advantage of that more and try to make
that more a part of things. Because it would be See that's
what you know, RSS feeds, or podcast feeds are missing two is
this easy? Sort of scannable. thing? The enlightening has
that. QR codes are all over the place. Yeah. But there's no
there's no universal sort of IB system. That that's like
scannable or easy to, you know, what you end up with? Is these
podcast landing pages with like 15 Badgett badge buttons on this
says, Oh, do you wanna listen in stitcher? Do you want to listen
in overcast? I want to listen in this. And you got to call a guy
pick which one you want. So and they're never complete?
Yeah. So even that maybe it's just a thought, you know? if,
if, if Tina is listed some Tina listens to other stuff that I
do. But it's on pod friend. And if I said oh, what do you listen
to? And she's Oh, it's I know, Victor Davis Hanson podcast, I
should be able to just take my phone and flash a QR code from
her phone. And I'm and I'm subscribed and I'm set up, you
know, as should be just good to go. And it's a simple thing. It
was just, I liked how mo connected the feed to the
identity into the QR code. And as there's something there to
explore, but really, I think we're we're selling ourselves
short by not bringing in our guests because I think he can
talk about this too. Shall we bring them in? Shall we bring
our assessor of the board in?
I think we absolutely need an auditor in this.
To go off the rails.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the boardroom. The man who I
don't know all that much about although I listened to him at
least for an hour every single week. He is a podcaster. He's a
broadcaster. He's a radio mogul. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Sam
Sethi, also known as smokin Sam Sethi.
Hello, hello. Should I intro?
Yeah, no, there was the shittiest intro I've ever done.
I'm sorry. I really I really didn't know what to say. I mean,
I know you do a lot and I didn't want to peg you to one thing
because I really know you from pod land. That's my you know,
that's kind of my weekend go to podcast.
Well, thank you for listening. Well, I've
got I've got a question right off the bat for you though
saying is yes. So a friend of mine sent me this sent me this
link. This says Trinity College in Perth, bans mullet haircut
labeling dim, unacceptable. And then so I'm like what, what the
heck was was mullet a thing in Australia. And then I find this
wall street journal article that says the mullet makes a comeback
and divides Australia. Evidently This is a humongous thing in
Australia about about the return of the mullet. And I'm just
wondering, you know, I've never actually seen James Cridland and
in real
life. Does he have a mullet?
All we get is the business side of James. There may be a party
in the back. Do we know that that's not
the case? Well, I think as part of his Australian citizenship,
he's had to grow up That's what's happened. Well, you don't
see him. He's in the middle of changing.
I love it.
I'm going to, I'm going to quote, I'm going to quote you,
Sam. Thank you about three weeks ago on pod news. He said, I'm
going, he said, I'm going to, I'm gonna lose my podcast
virginity and go and Adam and Dave Show.
Yeah, really? I heard that. I didn't know if I was supposed to
be insulted or complimented. I
was born. We haven't even had drinks. Yes. I mean, well, I
think we should have drinks and then I'll lose it for you.
Okay. So Sam, you are, I'd like to know a little bit about your
background. because firstly, as I said, pod land is really a go
to for me, I enjoy it very, very much. And I and I like the
dynamic between you and and James, you know, because of
course, you know, we know he's upon me, obviously, that's why
he's living there. And, you know, I hear you've got these
interesting projects you're working on. So clearly a
podcaster. And that you live in you live full time in the UK?
That's,
yeah, yeah. I citizen of the UK since birth. So yeah, no, love
it here.
Okay, what now? What is your What is your background? How did
you come into podcasting, which I'm quite confident comes
through radio broadcasting. Just give us a little background on
you. So we, we can get a handle on it?
Yeah, I mean, I was a radio broadcast, amateur radio
broadcaster, love, love the medium. And podcasting really
took a comeback. I mean, you know, I was around when you
first started it out, and and didn't get into it that first
time round really. And then podcasting made its comeback.
And I thought, you know, I really want to do a podcast.
Now. Over in the UK. Here, we didn't really have that many
podcasters at the beginning doing anything interesting.
They're all sort of amateur hour. And one of the things that
I wanted to do was interview entrepreneurs and people in
business who were setting up cool startups. And so that's my
background. That's the that was the seed of the idea that I
wanted to do. So I've done over 150 of those. And I love doing
them because each one's a great story. So that's where I
started. And then I've mixed basically radio and podcasting,
because the two are an interchangeable medium reading.
But it is Sam's is Sam talks technology. Is that is that
still a live show because it doesn't look has been has had an
episode in a while.
Yeah, it hasn't in a while. The reason is, I've got 24 in the
cam, Dave.
Wow,
that editing is the time. Now stupidly, I came to James and
said, Look, do you want to do a podcast on our podcast, which
seemed very meta, but I thought there was a space for it. And so
we started pod land only back in November. And at the same time,
just because I didn't think I was busy enough. I decided to
start a radio station as well. So combining the two together.
Answer Santos technologies had to take a small hiatus, but it
will be back.
So I've been I come from the radio days, I was growing up in
the Netherlands. Not sure how old you are. But you know, in
the 70s 80s and 70s and all the way through most of the 80s. So
I very I was always very intrigued by British
broadcasters. Of course for me It started with Caroline, and
Mimi, go north sea Veronica, you name it all the all the ships,
the pirate ships, then obviously, you know, we know
about the BBC BBC has gone through a number of interesting
changes with da be direct audio broadcast the pirates pilots of
pirate stations in in the cities in the in the UK and then of
course the commercialized and I think that was also mainly I'm
not familiar, not exactly sure mainly di bs a lot. You know, we
had virgin radio come in. And it's just been a very
interesting landscape. And you still have very much like other
countries you have this, you know, this BBC entity, which
just kind of sits there and and, and I don't know how important
they are anymore. But so where are you on that spectrum where
you kind of in that first commercial way with Virgin radio
and that stuff? Where do you come from before that?
I come before that I'm 54 Adams saw were the same.
So you know my friend, Pat sharp, probably. Oh, yes.
Actually, I
do a an event with Pat. Tell him I said hey, I wilted here we do
have an 80s or rock the more events with Yes,
yeah. Talk about molot he got rid of his Pat sharp used to
have a massive mullet. He got rid of that. I think
he was the original mullet carrier and had no pants, dude.
All right. He's doing right now.
Gary Davis with the moving bit in the middle.
Gary Davis on the radio. That's right,
everybody. Yeah. So that's the kind of Yahoo's I used. Hang out
with. And and now you've gone back to it, I'm just going to be
presumptuous and say you're you've done a DA B radio
station?
I have, yes, we were launching a dap, we literally just launched
a month ago. And so we're just building out the shedule is you
know what it's like and getting the presenters trained up. And
then we'll turn on the DAP in about a month when we think
we've got everyone ready. And everything lined up.
Now I find with Greg
before,
I think this is really interesting, because I think
we're coming full circle to it. And I want to know, and that dap
is is not known in the United States, it's, it's not really
digital. That's the digital thing, right? Yeah, so it's a
digital broadcast. The Netherlands actually has one or
two of their government stations only on da B, most of the car
manufacturers have some version of it now built in. So that is a
lot more prevalent. But I feel and especially since we've been
looking at the alternate enclosure, in the namespace for
a live stream, I have this feeling that that the small and
and I'd love to know the format of the station. But the
localized certainly localized DB broadcasters will be able to
benefit from taking their their same stream, and just blasting
it out, you know, on on the internet, whether it goes
through, you know, a podcast and 2.0 app or just to, you know,
tune in or whatever it is, it feels. And it's funny, because I
was just being interviewed about that is radio dead. I said no, I
the local, the local community station, which needs to be
supported as such, I think is really necessary. So tell me
about the format. And if that's what you're looking at, are you
going broader.
Now we're going hyperlocal, because nice. What we have in
the UK is Yeah, you have the BBC, so they're the massive
footprint over the whole of the country. Then you have the
commercial radio stations, there's two big groups global
and Bauer. And what they've done, sadly, is they've bought
up all the local radio stations. And then they've merged them
into like a national network radio station, so sacked all the
local radio station presenters and created a network commercial
network to challenge the BBC on a nationwide state. So
everybody's going well, hang on. I want my local news about stuff
down the road. I don't want it about stuff 300 miles away, that
doesn't relate to me. So hyperlocal is where I think I
want to go and hyperlocal I think what people want as well.
Do you see a merging coming? Do you? I
mean, because you started this, you're not crazy? Maybe you are
but you don't start thinking Oh, yeah, radio is gonna work the
way it always has. what's the what's the model that you that
you have for this? Is this a bill that they'll come? We'll
see. I mean, what what's your what's the thought there? No,
I'm
a firm believer that music is now a commodity, unfortunately,
because I mean, you know, whether it's Spotify, Amazon, or
Apple, you can get music anytime you want. And kids on the 25
don't listen to radio, they've got stuff that just isn't even
broadcast on radio. So they're not even tuning in radio ones
losing, you know, the big mainstream young kids radio
station is losing hand over fist listeners, what what people want
is intelligent conversation. And they want it to be about where
they live and mixed in with a couple of nostalgic tracks. And
that's really what we're focused on. Now taking that you can
podcast those as well, because what we have learned with
podcasting is, you know, people aren't always ready to listen,
lives are on demand is where we going. But it's a chat based
radio station with a little bit of music, but it is designed to
be podcast. But when you might like this, Paul, Adam and Dave,
were using bushka down in Australia as the platform that
takes the live stream from the icecast and puts it straight
into a podcast removes all the music through tagging, and puts
it straight out on to Apple, Spotify and Google.
Wow. Now do they chop that up? I mean, it has. They're chopping
it up into site into segments. How's that work?
No, you configure it. So what happens is you take the straight
icecast live stream, so they're recording everything. But you
then tell them what the shedule looks like of your shows. So you
say until 12 give it a name, then you can figure it like you
would a podcast. So it's like an RSS feed going straight in. And
you're telling it that 10 to 12 is my feed. That's the name of
this podcast. And if there's music in here, what you can do
is replace that because it's using dynamic content insertion.
So it's taking out the music and replacing that with any ad I
want to put in or any other information and then it pushes
it straight out as a podcast would do on any podcast host. So
yeah, taking all the hard work out of running a radio station.
maddening in that process is the fact that you probably cannot
even get a license to leave the music Again, because if it were
possible I'd be doing it what are the what does that look like
on the performance Performing Rights Organization? They're in
the UK How are they How are they looking at streaming? Is it
similar to the US where it's or they geo located like you can
pay a licensed UK only and what's what's the what's the
Yeah, licensing bodies just to make the matter more complex ppl
performing performance licensing, right prs which off
comm run. So if you've got a dab or an FM license you've got to
get one from off comm to actually broadcast live and then
you've got to get a ppl license to actually play music so you
can have a non music gab station and that's one license but the
minute you add music to that station you have to have that
the second license
and it is calculated on on usage or is it a flat fee? Or is it
based on revenue?
It's flat fee up to $5,000 and then after that it's revenue
base that's a percentage of revenue and
what you have to negotiate with them I guess independently Yeah,
and it's maddening because they know
that the mafia man that's the fucking mob. It's the mob Yeah.
But on top of that, you've also got to pay for your transmitter
license as well so there's the third license and that's the
really big one as well. You pay off comm ppl and the transmitter
company
Oh, and I'm sure and isn't doesn't Defra one payment just
for the hell of it just like that was my first encounter like
you got pets you got a garden Did you fart sometimes Defra
will come visit you What does that department have? What does
it stand for
aggregate used to be the Department for agriculture and
something else God knows now
agriculture free free things and whatever yeah
man Haitian Oh, those
guys. Yeah.
Every other department that didn't have a thing to do when
we need some a host to collect some money and give it to death.
Yeah, they'll
take care of for cyclists.
Wow, that's interesting. I really believe in this and I
really believe that. And and the reason why is I had this
experience when our electricity went out in Austin, Texas, which
was quite uncommon. It was shocking for everybody. We were
without electricity for 50 hours, which was and we were
lucky, then our pipes did not break because I got a wife who
grew up in Chicago in Indiana, so she knows how to drip faucets
and took care of that. But the worst part is now I'm a ham
radio operator. I'm fully licensed, I can do all kinds of
crazy shit. That was disappointment number one
because I got on the frequencies and like all right, everybody,
let's organize and like
Mic check Mic check.
like okay, that's no good. We're not gonna do the ham guys. Can I
tune into NPR? Our local k UT NPR radio station. I got Terry
Gross fresh air our guests today and like, okay, we're dying here
people. And the only station was kale BJ, which has been around
for a long time. That sounds very, very has a lot of history.
Man. It's like the Todd and Jimbo in the morning show who
were doing a great job. You know, they had listeners calling
in giving their experiences local reports. And they're just
a bunch of Morning Show. You know one of those guys? Yeah.
And and I was like, holy crap. It's like a town like a city
like Austin we have you know, you could have a million person
reach here easily. We need this. We need this and it needs to be
delivered in you know, it would be great to get a digitally but
even just over the air, although that is not I don't think it's
financially feasible. So I think that this will cut just like
people discovered podcasting because of the nature of cereal.
And we brought back the cliffhanger in an age of binge
watching. Like what I can't listen, I can't get Episode
Five. Now I need it. Now I'm hooked. I have 1234 right after
each other I need five I need five I can't give you gotta wait
the whole week knows that. That's what brought people in.
And similarly, in the US, it's Westwood One and premiere radio
networks and they've bought up all all the stations and they're
doing the same thing except they'll put Elvis Duran morning
show who's in New York, they'll put them on in 18 markets, you
know, it's completely not local. It sounds like shit. Yeah.
That's the same in the UK. They're just taking one London
based presenting co host and just whacking them straight
across the whole of the UK. And people just going well, that
doesn't refer to me. That doesn't mean you know, reference
anything I need to do. So they're turning off to
this use. You were telling me before the before we were
talking before the show that you're the market that you're
aiming for was like just this, this one area that had just no
radio footprint at all. Yeah,
it's called bulk share, which is where the Queen lives box.
You're really gonna go to fortnum and Mason's and then
with a picnic basket, often boats with Daksha.
It's the Queen's English here. Yeah, it's embark, she basically
has about 5 million people as a footprint if you add a few of
the other local counties to it. And there is no commercial radio
station there. So that was my entrepreneurial. Scratch I
wanted to which basically, it was like, What There must be a
reason like there is a need or no, there's a need. People want
local radio information about events, concerts, stuff that's
happening, but no one's providing apart from the BBC.
And so yeah, that's where I started it about six months ago.
As an idea.
It's the same it just hearing y'all talk, it just reminds me
so much of what Facebook and Google did to the to the local
news market. They're just, they just decimated, they kind of
vacuumed up all news into what you know, into these big
aggregation points. And so now there's no, there's really just
no local news. It's all just been gutted. And so then the
only but they're so focused in they can't think outside of the
box at all. And so the only solution they come up with is,
oh, Google themselves are going to start paying local news,
news, local newspaper people to like, come back, like giving
them grants and stuff like, Well, no, that's just, that's
not solving the problem. I mean, like, it's still just this
massive central aggregation point for news. So and like that
whole thing, this this complete absence of local media coverage.
And all you're left with really, really, you know, NPR is
probably the one has resisted that the most. Yeah, that I
know, they take the national feed and that kind of thing, but
they still do have a local presence,
not when it mattered and not when it matters.
Yes, Sam, can
we can we listen to this station online? Or is that still a
licensing nightmare?
Now you can listen to online, you can go to Red River dot
radio and your place straight out. It's it's there in live or
you can go
great domain name, river dot radio. Love that.
Thank you. That's great. And yeah, it's on Alexa, Google,
Facebook, all sorts of places.
Oh, excellent. Excellent. I like it.
I want to turn it to I want to ask you about podcasting.
Because we, we were mean, you shared a bunch emails about just
different stuff. And I think it started with clubhouse. And you
got kind of in fascinated with clubhouse for a while. Is that
waned at all? I think clubhouse is showing itself to be the
disaster that everybody thought it would?
Well, I it is because it's not evolving fast enough is not
doing what it should do. And that I don't know why, given the
amount of money that they've accrued so far from VCs, but
they've allowed the community to start to record stuff
themselves. And they're not providing a sort of structure
like search directories is all sort of organically growing in
the background. And yes, I know, Twitter did that. And so
hashtags came out of, you know, bottom up and all sorts of other
features. And, you know, you can see people now putting red dots
on clubhouse rooms, because that's their indication that
they're going to record stuff against the terms of service
originally. But the whole thing about clubhouse is just not
evolving faster. But the potential was there for doing
podcasting really well. In fact, I think their previous
incarnation of clubhouse was a podcasting app called think of
something Tech Talk or something like that. And the idea was that
you could record you know, person to person interviews.
Now, I would love like wave during this show live. And you
could be broadcasting this out on a, you know, I'm gonna say it
now a clubhouse room. And you would have an audience below it
as you would have the three of us on stage. And, you know, both
of you could ask anyone for questions at the end. But at the
same time, you're recording that whole thing, and then you're
pushing it out to your podcasting host. And it's on
demand at the same time for those who can't listen live. And
I quite like the melding of those two platform
opportunities, where you still do your podcast recording as you
would anyway. But you just happen to allow people if they
wish to to be live listeners, that's all it is. I think they
need to encourage us that's interesting, successful
I agree with you on on a number of pieces. One. Now we stream
when we record we stream it live, and that has been one of
the most important factors of our, of our, of our production.
We have a chat room, which I call the troll room. And we have
1000s of people sitting in there and that they can then they can
because it's the troll room that can do whatever they want.
There's no moderation just yell scream, shout usually turns it's
pretty useful. So so that aspect as a as a blog, cast her as a as
a producer of programming. It's very I think it's very exciting
energetic. When you when you when you know you have an
audience and you can see them. So I'm not seeing people hand
waving, I'm seeing that. In fact, it's become second nature
for me. I just see out of the corner of my eye, I see feedback
coming in, you know, seven seconds delayed to what's going
on. But it's very, very good. Our format is not to have
someone come up on stage. For me everything I've every
integration, I've heard of clubhouse in the podcast, sucks
donkey balls. It's really horrible. It's unstructured. I'm
not interested in what these people have to say. To me, I
think clubhouse, revolutionize the conference call. That's
great in a corporate environment. Because you can
actually give people permission, you can let them on stage, you
can shut them up. It's, I want to hear the hosts, you know,
there's maybe one show, which I think is Wait, wait, don't tell
me which NPR does, which is in front of a live studio audience.
But you hear it's more of the reaction of the audience. You're
not getting that with a clubhouse. And quite frankly,
the only interesting podcast stuff I see or the only podcast
stuff I see this successful are podcast consultants and experts
and people shilling and shelling. And really, it's great
for conferences, which is why it's a great conference call
app. If you want I think the future of conferences, instead
of going somewhere may very well be clubhouse or a hybrid model.
But otherwise, for the I have yet to hear a podcast, that
integrated clubhouse that I that was worth listening to, I'd be
happy to be proven wrong or point me to something that that
works, but I haven't seen it yet.
Well, I did do an experiment. So I took my road, podcast and
mixing test connect it to my phone through TT artists TT RS
cable. So it was a good quality cable, I had my pod mic. And of
course, that meant that clubhouse couldn't detect that I
was actually recording it because it was an off my phone
recording. But I got the same high quality that I wanted from
my pod mic. And obviously with my mixing desk. So that was
quite interesting. I could get a quality because obviously I
don't want to just record straight from my iPhone and push
that was a podcast. So it proves it's all possible. I think
what's happened right now is clubhouse hasn't evolved to the
spaces, of course has come about right now. And that in itself, I
think it's going to kill clubhouse because they haven't
got the social graph back channel that Twitter has. And I
don't think clubhouse can develop a Twitter clone, quick
enough to compete. We'll see that that's,
that brings up the point that that bothers me about the whole
thing, which I think what we're seeing now, if podcasting if
podcasting 2.0 if it has proven anything, it's that
decentralization is a mindset that is creeping more into the
mainstream, they just just people don't eat. But the only
thing is people just don't understand what to call it. So
like the theory that the feeling of a need to decentralize? Is
there even though even if they don't have the language to
describe what, what that felt need is and so like I was,
there's this article from BBC says why popular YouTubers are
building their own sites. And there's a couple of things in
here like what one of them says, discusses, Google has been very,
very good to me. But it's a lot of eggs in one basket. He's not
the only youtuber looking for alternatives. There's these big
YouTubers. As they get large enough, they real they look
around and realize that, hey, Google controls, not just the
the audience and the platform and the technology, but they
control the purse strings. They control everything about my
business. And it's such an odd thing that that's so 2020 or
2021, to look around and realize that you just basically built
your entire business on somebody else's business. Well,
we've seen this so many times before. I mean, look, when
Twitter had a API, and all these people started building apps on
the Twitter, and Twitter then when actually we don't want you
to have an API anymore. So thanks a lot. Combine did the
same. So
that's because they want Yeah, they wanted to control the
experience. And that's, that's what's so beautiful about
podcast index is here's it. Here's an API. All you guys who
got boned by Twitter, or know the experience go at it. And we
and we've just seen phenomenal interpretations of podcast
listening experience is completely different from your
traditional app. is I think that's Beautiful. And you're so
right. That's where Twitter made the mistake. They had the uptake
from the developers, you know, who are the the infected
leprechaun leprosy class of Silicon Valley? Who hit him up
shit, they don't care about him.
The the the social graph having access to the social graph and
having those algorithms. There's there is a benefit. there
clearly there is. But I'm sure I'm beginning to wonder what the
benefit actually is. Because you know, the bit and I know what
you're saying, because they benefit is from you can build
recommendation now goes, all these kind of things. But I
think, like, what we've seen with the podcast index is that
the, the algo, really nice to live down further downstream.
It's like, the higher up the algo. And the social graph
exists, the more you it's not a matter of messing up the algo
and pushing people down a rabbit hole or something like that. The
problem is that you can't stop doing that. You can't find the
right algo because right algo doesn't exist for that thing not
to happen. Because that's math is not intelligent. And the
option stop
stop, Dave.
It's so hot when you talk math.
Talk man to me. Yeah, baby, the only podcast that gets your
heart when you're talking about math,
Dave, Jennifer behind my back. I know.
She slipped on him, baby.
Okay, I'm completely
Sorry, I didn't mean to throw you off. But I was waiting for
the opportunity. When the word math comes. I'm hitting this.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that when you go, if you push
the algorithms down to the furthest to the edge, if you
push them to the edge, then you, you empower. You keep the
centralization and you empower the apps to have control over
the content for their hyper local set of users. Hmm, yeah.
I, I agree. But I think there's two things I want to throw into
the conversation. One is, I firmly believe Apple is going to
turn off the directory. Now.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, no, I
do I want 100% agree with you
that but that, by the way, would be a huge endorsement for us.
And I would appreciate it. Absolutely. No, I
think that's where we're going. And I think you are going to be
seen as prescient by delivering the index before it had his need
fully. I think his heart is got any, but I think he's gonna have
a real need for all of the app makers. The reason why I said
it's the same as Twitter and Facebook. Soon as Apple turns on
the subscriptions, they are not going to want to allow the
directory of podcast to go to other places where a they could
be either listened to you for phrase subscription model
doesn't work. Right. Right. He they don't want to send the
money to someone else to make money. So soon as they turn on
subscriptions, I fundamentally reckon they're gonna say, you've
had your free lunch for 10 years. But hey, guys, time to
turn off the directory. Or guess what you pay your $99 developer
cost to be accessing the directory, but I don't think it
is going to be a free directory anymore. And I think that's when
people are gonna look at you guys and say, well hang on a
minute, left field, 2 million indexed. podcasts. I'm coming to
you. That's what I think is going. Interesting. I
think you're exactly right. Six months ago, I would have it was
in the back of my mind. And I kept saying, Well, I don't think
there, that's not going to happen. But over the something
has changed my mind over the last really the last maybe
month. And I don't know what it is. But I feel like that's, I
feel like that's in the cards too. And I'm like you I don't
know what it'll look like. But I think there will be some sort of
lag time. And all of a sudden that I wonder what it was, I
know exactly what changed my mind on it. We had a guy pop
into the mastodon and I don't remember who he was. But he came
into there and said that he was looking for an alternative to
get episode level data because Apple had Britain that API went
down and it never came back up. So initially, people thought
that it was just down and evidently they just turned it
off. And so he was like scrambling trying to figure out
an alternative for that. And and that told me I bet you bet you
they're gonna flip the switch on that thing before long.
It's not gonna be long i i really predicted WWDC, you're
going to hear some stuff. Maybe at the edges of WWDC, but of the
new subscription model, they're going to have to announce it
sometime public wasn't
the me the The beta of the podcast app was kind of the
giveaway, zero innovation. Guess I mean that that just to me,
it's like, okay, so you guys got something coming. And it's got
to be more than this. That's not an apple announcement. Yeah.
Okay. Follow instead of subscribe. Alright.
Well, I think I think the the index, people need to understand
that the in the apple lookup API only exists for one. It exists
as an accident. It basically exists because all of the apple
podcast, the apple podcast app on your phone, aggregates feeds
directly, it doesn't call back to the mothership. It only calls
back to the mothership to find to get the information, right.
It doesn't actually do the apple podcast app is doing a lot of
work. Is aggregating feeds. Yes. And so if so, by by because of
that, they needed an open an open way to for the app to call
back right to call home, that never existed as a as a Kurd as
a like, benevolence to
to have it was really just for their app to work, because you
can't have everyone authenticating. Oh, interesting.
Yeah, they can pull it off anyway.
Yeah, but they weren't supporting web sub either. So
now I'm because I don't do that. They have to have a call out.
Well, I like your prognostication. I, I would say
it's, it would be a huge compliment to the work that's
done. I spoke to James Boggs. When was that? Dave? October?
last year?
December, I think, December.
Yeah. And went through it all. And now he was very, it was very
clear to me that they were going to do a podcast one or
something, or they're going to do some kind of Spotify type
play. To which he said, What do you think about that? I said, I
think it's fucking stupid. which you probably never told me
anything about it ever again. But I said, no, no. Why would
you do that? And he was very interested in the value for
value model. He said, Can we do that with Apple Pay said no, the
whole point is you can't it's no way because of the fee
structure. And, and I don't think it's in your corporate DNA
to try and break that open and which I don't blame you for. And
I hope that I gave him enough that he internally that they
said, You know what, we'll keep our eye on this. And now you
know what, those guys seem pretty solid, we'll turn our
shit off podcasting is going to be okay. Because overnight, that
would that would be, you know, you talk about your divergent
isation. I mean, that would PAMA cherry so big. We just been
cherry juice would be flowing everywhere. Because then then
all of that, and then we can really drive it. You know,
people in the hosting companies are still going well, Apple
doesn't support any of this yet. So we'll wait until they support
it. And I'm doing a shitty voice. But come on. That's
what's held us back for over a decade. So
yeah, but the minute they turn that off, and they will I mean,
look, Spotify is adding extensions to its API that are
not going out community that not are not being used by third
parties. They they're putting stuff in place that is only
going to benefit one company that I was Netscape Product
Marketing Manager for ages. Right. But
I didn't know that. Cool.
Yeah. So I was in the podcast, I sorry, the in the browser wars.
Look, we went through the, you know, ActiveX added by
Microsoft. And then
yeah,
if you remember, yeah, of course, you know, and I like an
app when Spotify right now to the you know, the Microsoft
ActiveX stuff. They're, they're adding stuff that's only
benefiting their platform, not the community. And I think what
they'll find is eventually, you know, yeah, they'll get the
short term benefit bonus, but long term, we all know open
succeeds over closed every time. So let's
say I got a I got a short story for you, Sam. Because you know,
your Netscape background, we there at the beginning of the
company? I was Yeah. So in 1992, I want to say two or three. I
was running a gopher server on mtv.com because there was no
web. And I got an email from this kid in the university
sharpay, Champaign Urbana, Urbana, Illinois. And he said, I
see what you're doing with mtv.com try this shit out.
You'll like it. It wasn't from Marc Andreessen. It was the
httpd I think version 1.2 or something. And I'd never seen
the mosaic browser and and from that, and I quit I quit I left
the career then maybe six months later. I was like, holy shit,
look what's going on. So yeah, that was my that was the
Andreessen Mark was in his dorm room and and I was on the studio
floor. And that was one of the first websites with the with the
HCP, demon and mosaic
Yeah, those are the good days.
We're living Good day, Sam, you're right in the middle of
it, man. Now you're a journalist by profession, or just always
radio. I mean, what, what, what, what pays the rent for you these
days? I setting up a radio station is expensive and takes a
while.
He actually doesn't. And that's a takes a while, but it actually
isn't expensive these days. I think the running cost for the
whole radio station, if I didn't do da B would be only 500 pounds
a year because Okay, you can do you can do cloud based icecast
service now. Yeah. Yeah, the initial cost of hardware, there
is a, you know, 15 20,000 pound cost of hardware to get stuff
going. But ongoing maintenance, aside from licenses, and da B is
not very high. But and that's why I think is can be
democratized. You know, it's, it's getting to that point where
the technology now is much simpler than it used to be. I
was saying to Dave, earlier, you know, I've got two road caster
Pro. Pros, the mixer desks, yeah, a couple of high end
laptops. And we use Spotify pro as our library and doesn't
matter. Yes, we're not even having to buy in tracks or
anything. We've got 4,000,005 minutes, I guess, are gone.
I know. I was gonna ask you a couple questions. Because I like
what I'm hearing one. Are you using a playout? system? And if
so, what are we just using? icecast? No, Sam, or what are
you using for that? No,
we're just literally we're using the road caster mixer. And
Spotify we are after? No scheduling.
No, because we're not we've decided not to do advertising.
We've got sponsors. So we have show sponsors. Literally we
don't, we don't have advertising, we chose not to
chasing 1000, small micro payments of advertising and then
having to fit them into a show and break up show. Right? Right
seems stupid. So we've got, for example, the wine show that we
do, we've got a local champagne producer or heroine hope and
they've sponsored by for the whole year. So we get 20,000.
from them. Thank you very much. And that does one show. And so
literally, we don't need to get our sizes.
So but I guess what I'm saying is it's a continuous stream that
you have a continuous programming in the middle of the
night who switches from the next
paragraph. Sorry. Yeah. Now we do have an automation server
background, what
do you use for that? What are you using for that?
We're using a company called radio King out of France radio.
Okay. And there's a good one as well in Manchester call radio.co
that the two good ones that you could use? And literally, we've
got a library of music up there. So they just say let's say,
yeah, it falls over the if the signal falls over and goes
straight back to automation. And when we're not doing seven to
seven, which is all we're broadcasting now. We put it
straight back towards the guy that really got
it got it. Okay, then I have another question about the road
caster since we're a podcast show. Now I think I basically
developed the whole concept for the road caster was called
podcaster. Pro. It was a it was crowdfunded. And it failed
spectacularly because I couldn't I misjudged the engineering. But
when I saw the road caster, which I think they've done it
better than I could have done it, except for one thing. And I
want to understand if I'm, because it's very hard to add,
I've never bought one. I've never been offered one. And the
reason I haven't gotten one is because I believe that they
still do not have a noise gate on every single channel on every
channel, including his three channel trs s and the USB
note on the USB, but they do have it on every other channels.
I think, is it? Is it on the TRS s? In the 2.1 upload?
Yeah. Ah, okay, because my problem has always been, I need
to be able to noise gate like clean feeds. So I would have to
run clean feed on a different machine to connect it to the TRS
s connector, because I can't do it from USB because USB doesn't
doesn't have a noise gate.
It doesn't have a nice guy,
if they would fix that if they could fix that one thing. I
would be the biggest proponent of this box, because I would use
it
Yeah, I mean, I have to say as a box I mean, because the the
previous version would only allow you to do noise gate on
the whole system, right and now you can do individual settings
to each of the four mics that you've
got here and they go someone in there who understands it.
Finally there was a music company doing doing a podcast
broadcast mixer and they had no clue they got the mix minus
right, but it's just that one thing like give me that noise
gate on every channel.
Don't Don't do it. Yeah, on the USB. I'm sorry to say
what? Yeah, no, it's too bad now. Okay, looks I know, so I'll
still have to wait. Damn it. 60 bucks, man. It's a 60 ask bye.
2.1 upgrade, it looks really good. I couldn't use that I
could replace a lot of my stuff but not without the noise gate
on the USB.
Fashion maybe Yeah,
we need hot USB talk now that's what we need. So let's talk
about podcasting. 2.0. And, you know, pod man was listed. I was
streaming value to it weeks ago, I think it might have been maybe
James set it up in a Sphinx tribe or something has Yeah, cuz
it was, I know it was sending SATs. Maybe James was just
stealing Oh, even though it doesn't exist bitcoins not real.
I wanted to ask you both a question, because I've been
following the value tag and the value for value very closely.
And I love it. Because for many, many years, I've been saying if
there was a micro payment system on the internet, and I know,
when you talk to Tim berners Lee, he said that was one of his
But no, it was Marc Andreessen in his book said it was one of
his biggest mistakes was not to invent a micro payment system in
the browser. But where are you guys positioned on NF T's? What
is your thoughts of using the NF T's on an Ethereum Bitcoin
platform as opposed to the way that you're using it today with
satoshis on the Bitcoin platform?
I think that will with a theory, I think aetherium is based on
what I understand about aetherium which is which is very
little, but from what I have seen, it is 10 technologically
sketchy in a lot of areas.
Dave at podcast index.org Yeah, thanks,
Ed Sheeran tag ID and the subject aetherium. So I'll know
how to handle that. I've heard I've heard endless debates
between aetherium and Bitcoin people. And the Ethereum guys
seem to have they seem to have consistent security issues.
People are getting people get hacked on the Ethereum
blockchain a lot. And it makes me nervous that I can't read, I
can't really, I don't know anything about the low level of
aetherium in order to speak to it. But that's just in theory in
general makes me nervous about it doesn't really give you the
extra capacity, even though layer two like lightning can
work over multiple blockchains. The, the the Ethereum blockchain
to me just makes it makes me a little nervous.
Yeah, I'm not so much worried about whether it's Bitcoin or
aetherium. It's the non fungible tokenization, for value for
value. Okay. One of the things I'm really interested in is the
way that NF T's have been used. So the way I likened it to
somebody the other day was very simple if you've got a public
limited company, and they issue shares, those shares, if you
think of them as NF T's can be accruing of value up or down,
like shares on a stock exchange, and you can trade them. So I
could issue from Portland, or you could issue from the podcast
index and the NFT. Community token that has value and that
value for me was really interesting. Because, yes, it
could be for value for value for how much so you could take that
payment. But also, it's it's very heavily linked to the
things I'm really interested in, like behavioral marketing and
attention. So when you look for value for value, to me, that is
really attention. How much of that podcast have I pay
attention to? And therefore, how much am I going to reward the
person for that. And then the second part, though, is as a
community token, you can make those tradable between the
community. So you might say if you listen to five podcasts,
we'll give you a token, but that token has a value that is
tradable outside of Adam and Dave's requirement, I could
trade it with other members of the community. So I'm just
curious. If you ever look at NF T, that's
Yes, I'm very opinionated. Surprise. If so, it's the NF T's
and value for value streaming. Payments are two solutions to
the different versions of a problem. And the problem is fair
pricing of creative work. And actually, I'm going to play this
one minute clip. We played it recently. This is Max Kaiser
talking about the business model of Silicon Valley towards
creators.
Yeah, it's a Adam Curry. The prop father is really
relaunched. He's the re report Father, you know he's he's
relaunching podcasting to point out this is the newest thing
he's totally got some fantastic product up there and running and
your streaming sets, you know, then I can see on my my Twitter
feed that the podcasters and everybody are taking this
immediately. It's got attraction instantaneously. And, you know,
lasers can stream sets to to the creators and start off at the de
minimis level of, I think five sets an hour or something like
that. And you can you pick and choose. And this is going to
really challenge the current market, the current status of
social media is everyone gives all the people in Silicon Valley
all of their talent for free, and they get nothing.
So that's the model. Now, this as much as I love Steve Jobs,
what he did for podcasting, he did something horrible to the
music business, and subsequently to the developer, business,
computer programming developer business, he priced everything
at 99 cents to track. For me, I want to hold your hand by The
Beatles is one of the best love songs ever written. And I will
pay $99 for it every time. I mean, that's how much I love it,
I have no opportunity to do that. So there's a false market,
there was no market a false pricing mechanism, no pricing
discovery as to what that is really worth and the same
carried over to apps, where they put the same damn 99 cent
business modeling of which by the way, they take 30%. And
there's all kinds of other shit that happens, certainly on the
music side. So it's actually much less when when when it
really breaks down. And NF T's are, to me nothing more than a
mechanism to find a form a pricing discovery mechanism for
art. So I consider program development, I consider
programming development engineering, an art, yes, it's a
science, but it's also an art. Music is an art broadcasting as
an art recognized as such in many, many awards. So it's it's
science and an art. And an NFT allows you to value today's
Rembrandt. You know, for one, you look at the Rembrandt, and
it's, it's $60 million. For another, it's like it's not
worth the paint on the canvas. And you know, you've heard this
before. So they're both pricing, price discovery mechanisms for
valuing creative work. Now, when it comes to broadcasting, I've
done this almost all my life. And it's a it is a very highly
discardable product. In most cases, it's here today, it's
gone tomorrow, show suck today, I'll do a better one tomorrow.
But it's still valuable to people. And and and that's the,
that's the crux of how we look at value for value. And the
definition. In fact, a value cannot be determined by anyone
else, but the person who holds the value. So if I'm listening
to a podcast, and you've streamed technically ones and
zeros in mp3 encoded and compressed format, to me, I have
now received that value. And only I can say how much that's
worth to me, it could be just worth the bits that came in on,
it could be worth $100 million for an idea I got. So then for
me to have the mechanism to return that value. And in our
case with value for value in real time, with an almost
instantaneous exchange is something that makes sense for
finding that right pricing mechanism. So what you said
about the community and tokens and everything, absolutely valid
100% i think i think that will come into play. We've already
seen many podcasts do this. And you know, it was a great news
story for a second now it's gone. I believe NF T's like art
are at this moment in time, a huge money laundering business.
You know, this most rich people buy art and then store it in
harbors where it's free. It's a way to store your money
somewhere else. Yeah. So I think there's a lot of money
laundering going on. But there's also collectibles are nothing
new. You know, this is the this is like it's just like Beanie
Babies and the markets will ebb and flow and they'll be around
for 100 years. The only thing it's done that is extraordinary
is it has delivered a pricing mechanism for digital art. I
personally feel that the the value for value streaming
payments are a hopefully a somewhat easier on ramp into God
knows what this alien beast the internet will will create for us
next.
I don't I'm not disagreeing. I just think that there's a
interesting model that would sit alongside what you guys are
doing. I don't fully understand NF t. So I'm not going to sit
here and say I'm an expert, but the bits I have understood of
it. It fundamentally is a digital share in a community.
That's a transferable tradable item, perhaps that has a value
attached to it. I think there's got to be something in there
that is worth sort of sniffing around a bit more on that.
Totally.
I think there is the difference, though, I think it comes down to
where the debrief went into equity, and just assert, you
know, like a service or a goods based transaction. Because if
you have something like a it's the difference between buying a
share of buying a share of stock or buying a good friend versus
participating in IPO, you've got you've got this thing that NFT
is more akin to me to like a a share of Berkshire Hathaway you
know, because that thing, that thing Yeah, it's it's a scarce
it's a scarce item. But before too, you know, once Yeah,
but that's not true. It's not true Dave because you can't it
by its very nature being non fungible, you cannot exchange it
easily for anything else where share Berkshire Hathaway, you
can do all kinds of stuff with that. Yeah, guess
what a man is like it. He goes like it can be traded, it can be
traded. And then before you know it, you have a you know, you
have this NFT that's, let's just say now it's priced at at
$85,000 of USD equivalent in Bitcoin. I mean, like, what good
does that do? Anybody, I mean, like, the average person is not
going to be able to, to try to even get in that game.
Yeah, but what you can do is take a percentage. So let's say
you were talking about a money, I'll just take that as an
example, Adam Hughes. Now I can never afford to buy 60 million
power money, but I might be able to afford a 6000 slither of that
money. And I might be able to buy an NFT that's on a
blockchain that registers that I own X percent of that money. And
it will allow people who can't afford the whole thing to buy
into the segment of that thing. If that thing increases in
value, so does my NFT token. And then I could exchange that token
and sell it to other more Dave, and you can buy it, but you know
that the price I'm setting, it doesn't change the money, the
physical art, it changes the token that is a registered non
Trump vote sorry, a non it's basically within the blockchain,
there's non repudiated one transfer,
okay, is this this is this is what makes me uncomfortable
about a theory I'm okay, I got I got I got this back in my head.
Again, this, this sounds uncomfortably like like, the
complexity around defy. And just the whole, there's like 10
different ways that can crash and burn. There's a simple, the,
the simple, like, you stream the value stream value back to you
that that transaction makes sense. And there's, it's a
limit, there's a limited set of scenarios, where that can fail.
The the whole the construct of things like defy and NFT open up
100 different pathways of failure, where from fraud, you
know, all the way down to technical problems. And it seems
like ignoring for the moment, the the sort of Beanie Baby
esque, you know, quality of it. And if they even if it's even
gonna last, the complexity around trading a digital digital
asset, and trying to keep track of what that means in real world
value is sounds so difficult to pull off? When there's already
when there's already an alternative. You know, so that
the you have when you when you have the ability to just
basically say, here's my address, and I'm just gonna send
you send you satoshis like, it's just such a simple transaction
model that that defies, you know, it's sort of it puts a
moat around itself. We manage your scenario.
Yeah, well, basically, you know, Sam, I'm all for it. I have you
know, it's totally and I'm also I really hope Brian of London,
gets his hive token adopted, it works. And so we're totally open
and anyone can put the stuff in their implementation, you know,
if anyone shows, we're not going to do it. I at least I can. I
think that is I don't want to ever say never but I don't see a
reason for us to do it. But if anyone wants to do that, that's
I mean, I hope to see people show up with the craziest nutty
ideas. It definitely does not have to be lightning. The
concept is so elegant, Dave, congratulations. Is the the
whole concept of value block is so elegant. is so simple, that
is so extensible is so usable by anything that that will be
great. I'm all for it.
All for it. You know, we talked about this, we actually pre
recorded a show with Ron Gentry from lightning labs. That'll be
next week, next week's show. And we talked about this a little
bit on that show with him is there, this evolution of open
source initiatives. And one of the things we talked about was
with, with, I think we're currently in this new phase of
open source software, where, and I would put us in this in this
model, where you see open source companies that are building and
putting all of their source and all of their materials out there
in the open for other people to have and use and building
protocols. And, and what's so beautiful about that is they and
when the US in this scenario, we do 1% on anybody that uses us,
we're participating in our success or failure is tied to
the success of that protocol or that open source thing. But then
the beauty but the whole beauty behind it is that if we
disappear, if we were to say, you know, okay, we're just we're
not, we're losing money, we just can't sustain this five years
from now, the the thing we built, still functions perfectly
and continues to operate, even long after we're gone. Because
instead, that's the way the thing with the value block, and
the namespace and all that stuff. Somebody else can come
along, and like you're talking about it with a, they can build
an NF t system, and they can plug it into the value block, as
long as we built it, right? They can plug you can plugged five in
there, you can plug it there, you can plug anything into that
you can plug it into it,
in fact, you know, the promise that we made when when Dave and
I started this was besides the the having the the the index,
protect, preserve free speech was that everybody would be able
to participate in the success of the project. And, and, and the
main, the main people were the developers. So there are
musicians there, they're you know, there's the drummer and
the banjo player and this other guy, and someone's got a fucking
Theremin. And I don't know what the what, why does that thing
work? What are you plugged into? And it we're all jacketed into
this one big mixing board? And Dave's exactly right. It's it's
the success of all. And as we've expanded now we have these two
worlds coming together of podcast app developers and
lightning wallet developers who don't speak each other's
language at all, we have not successfully integrated them
together as a group. But money speaks, you know, it's the
Satoshi that unites us all. So when you know when we're filling
up channels, and it's a little bit of a technical thing, but
when we're when we've basically plugged up someone's pipes,
because we're successful, and it's working, and people are
sending streams of satoshis. And we need to work on the routing
of this this ad hoc kind of second layer network. I mean, I
ping a ping Tim at ln pay and say, yo, brother, can you can
you do something here? Can you can you open up channels, which
costs him actual money to do and he'll get a network network
routing fee? And if I thank him for that his answer is not
You're welcome. His answer is No, man, this is bigger than all
of us. And that ain't that the truth?
No, no, it is it is building something as big I get it. It
was just curious as to where your head was, is obviously I
don't talk to you. I don't have the pleasure of talking to you
every time. I thought I'd ask that.
By the way, Sam, you can always talk to me and always give me a
shout. You've never asked me darling. You've never asked me
to chat. He never asked me. So. So if you already I think I gave
my opinion. And I think it's very valid. There's there's a
lot of in blockchain technology, there's this concept of the
Merkle tree. And it's now going down a damn rabbit hole which
might need to know
how to make curry duck.
But the Merkle tree isn't affect how a blockchain is, you can
visualize a blockchain how you know, it has all these blocks
trailing behind it, which is a history. So within the
podcasting space, I said it you can determine by the payment
structure, loyalty, who was in early who brought in other
people, there's a lot of different aspects we have not
explored yet, which quite frankly, I'm not even
knowledgeable enough to speak about. So, where my head's at,
to answer your question directly, is okay, we have value
flowing like with on day one, we had $400 worth of value
streaming between listeners, podcasters podcast app
developers. So those are the those are the main players that
have been receiving value and that that'll be 700 today and
maybe 1000 next week, so there's an I know this because we
typically get 1%. So I can just do a calculation and say this is
what's kind of floating out there. The next piece is to use
these little, little micro payments, as a carrier with a
payload so that we can do cross app comments, and chat on
episodes and sync those to the playback of the podcast. So So,
and with that kindness, it was to me it was, and I, and I'm
very excited about this, I saw James get excited about what
we're doing when he saw statistics. You see, I knew that
what happened. So the boys and girls over there, James Kelly, I
know the boys and girls over there, Satoshi stream, they, you
know, who have, I mean, it's beautiful. What's happened
there. And this is part of what's so great about an open
source project, I didn't tell them to do that. They said, oh,
here's an API. Here's how we talked to the guys who can flip
stuff around or help us. And they've created something which
shows statistics by chapter, how much how much you made. So this
is listener statistics, which as you know, Sam, coming from a
broadcast world is mind blowing and terrifying at the same time.
Because a, we can actually now know when people are listening
and with the boost function, know what people appreciated.
We'll also know how many people are actually listening.
The radio world.
This is the scary part of the equation, which is why I think
there's also going to be a lot of resistance, no one really
wants to know.
No, they don't, they really don't want to know, they're
quite happy to say what it might be based on a small sample, that
what the radio world does.
Now, do you think that if we implemented if there was an
implementation of a streaming player for what you're doing,
that your audience would be interested in, in in a wallet,
that could they could stream? Just little bits of satoshis as
value for value when they're listening to your radio station?
I'm completely I mean, I think we've got to move to an IP based
radio system delivery where we actually know for advertisers as
well as listeners, what's going on? I mean, the big the big scam
right now in podcasting is is in advertising right now. You know,
you, you put your ad into podcasts, it gets downloaded
from Apple, and half your advertising isn't listened to
because you don't know how far the podcast has been actually
streamed. Yeah, but you're paying for it. And you know that
that's one problem we've got, I think, you know, again, going
back to value for value that should be for the advertiser a
value for value, tell me how far you know, that podcast was
trained. And I'll pay the answer if it was actually listened to
not not I paid, whether it's,
and I can, I can see hybrids, you know, I've always said that
the two are not mutually exclusive. advertising, I find
to be extremely valuable in some cases. And, in fact, contrary to
targeting and all this, you know, programmatic ad buying.
I'm very interested in some podcasts, advertisements,
because I know that there will be goods and services related to
that podcast, which used to be a dirty word. But you know, I'm
I'm reading bridal magazine, because I'm buying a wedding
gown. So I want the ads.
To me, there's something I need to talk about.
I was just not going to interject that stuff earlier.
Let me tell you, there's this your phone number I have my eye
on it's dynamite. So but you can see a scenario where, first of
all, as a listener, I or as a podcaster, I would say, Listen
to the ads, if you don't listen to the ads, that's fine. You
don't have to feel bad about skipping the ads. Another part
no one talks about because everyone skips ads as a fast
forward button for a reason. So you don't have to feel bad about
it. Because you're probably going to give me more value than
your CPM value, just by how much you'd like to show. But you can
also say, hey, stream the value to me. And if you listen to the
ads, I'll be able to prove it with now. So a one minute ad.
Let's say it's 10 satoshis. Wow. Okay, that's what is that Dave?
Is that one? Like a penny and a half now? It's a it's a penny?
No, it's a 10th of a penny.
It's Yes. Right. It's about a penny 10th.
Yeah, it is a penny now, okay.
Yeah, tense the time we
can go milli satoshis. Doesn't matter. We can do anything. And
and then the ad, you could say, you could say Listen, if you
listen to the ad, the advertiser will give me a 10x bonus. It's
kind of like, like a matching donation.
Oh, yeah. The 2x match. Yeah,
yeah, so Exactly. So the main thing is I think these
statistics are exciting. You know, when Apple first came out
with it, You know, it's really only for the podcaster Connect,
can you see it and it only works on, you know, certain versions
of iPhone and above and the Apple App. So it's very
restrictive that way. But now to have this data, my gosh, it's I
mean, I'm looking at, I finally have enough data to look at. I
had no agenda. And I can see, of course, every shows has a slope,
right, as it's listening slope that gradually goes down toward
the end, the longer the show, the more people drop off, or
just it's, you can just feel as you can see it, it's a regular
slope. When we hit the donation segment, it's like a little
gully. So it goes poof, it drops down 5%. And then that 5% comes
back up after the donation said, Now at this point, you're down
7%, because you're on a gradual slope, but people came back.
Now, that's very interesting knowledge to have, you know, so
these types of things we can now see, and it doesn't have to
break the bank. In fact, you can work with your audience and say,
Hey, this is a great tracking mechanism. So I can get better
ads, better prices. I mean, it works in so many ways, no rules.
But I mean, Kevin Kelley, in his book 1000, true fans, he
actually prints the last page, a refund for the whole book. But
he, he works out that most people won't get to the last
page of the page. Exactly. Literally, if you get to the
last page, he will tell you exactly how to get a full
refund. And one of the examples he gives in that book, he says,
Look, if TV advertising was he took the budget of a TV
advertising company, which because they don't know who's
watching, they really don't at all a guess. But if you actually
had an IP based digital model where you could say, right, did
Adam watch that ad? Yes, right, give him a percentage of that
budget, did Dave watch the idea. So you are actually paying for
people's time and attention, which is the value for value
modeling. And that's really what you've got to do, you got to the
models got to be spun on its head, people have got to be
rewarded for their time and attention. And that mechanism
for payment, and whether it's satoshis, or it's another
mechanism has to exist. And that's, that's the micro payment
system that's been missing on the internet, the only thing I
changed about what you just said is I don't believe people need
to be rewarded for their time. I believe people need to value
time.
And so I see it exactly, almost opposite everything the same.
Just that one nuance that the person who is receiving value
from the Creator has to determine the value of that,
that they want to return.
And where that's that's why the boost button is so important.
That is so beautiful.
Yeah, otherwise, otherwise, it's purely just a tom play. And your
you can set your time preference. I but your time
preference changes sometimes. I mean, like, if I'm, when I'm
listening to. I'm listening to pod land. And if I'm listening
to pod land, and I know that I can't, I've got to go do
something else. And I really, and I know instinctively I'm not
going to be able to return to this show. So I'm not I'm really
like halfway through it. But I've already
hit two boosts and say bye. Thanks. Thanks for the thanks
for the memory.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, cuz I'm like, Okay, well, I just, I just
hit the boost button a few times. And then I bail. Boost
and bail
baby boosted mail. Yeah, yeah, it's
not just a time, it's not just a template, because that's,
that's, that's an inaccurate, and the, and it lets me make
that determination. You know, sometimes I'll just sit there
and let the thing play just to just because I'll let it play
out. But you know, that that's something that subjective value,
that I have to make that decision. That's not something
that can be sort of pre rendered in advance, right. And that is
me speaking of value, we probably need to thanks. And we
do need to thank some people if you can hold on for a bit there,
Sam and bear with us as a value for value proposition these
these donations support the entire project. After our
initial couple of weeks, we've been running purely on donations
now neither Dave or I get paid or Eric, but that's okay. having
the time of my life and we built a whole nother revenue stream
for for our, for our podcast work. And we're extremely
excited about doing all this. So the value of value is what do
you get out of this project we have podcast index.org which by
itself is is worth considering to support especially in light
of Sam's Nostradamus like prognostication that soon it
will be the only go to index Well, the only one up and
running, anybody can recreate and get an index going which is
part of the beauty of the open source. This this show itself,
although you can also support this by getting any one of the
value for value apps pod friend breeze swings chat app or pod
station browser extension. You can find all these under new
podcast apps calm. So we still like the cookbooks while we're
getting while we're bootstrapping everything. You
can do that by going to podcast index.org scroll on the bottom
you got the big red Donate button. And that'll do a pay pal
for you also thrown into the mix. While stocks last we've got
podcasts index dot social. We've got our GitHub and then we've
got is we've got a telegram channel now. Whoo.
No, I'm going crazy. I'm living
telegram. There's a whole world there. All the cool kids are on
telegram who
know you screwed me over telegram. And then all this. I
didn't realize this. But I had like five people. Evidently,
it's one of those, you know, apps that wants to look into
your phone number and give you your social graph and all this
kind of jazz. Well, I got like five people popped up like, Hey,
cool. You're on telegram. Now I'm now she's dangling away on
my Bellman? Yeah, you
got to mute everything right away. It's not worth it. It's
not worth it. So Dave, what do we what do we thank who to who
sent us some value today for for the discuss here in the board
meeting.
First up, we got Christopher isane. $33.33 Christopher
Christopher. Is the
Keystone. He is Mr. 2 million.
He is the sweetest trickler that is that say that again? He is
Christopher icing the Swedish tricolor. The seas are circling,
circling podcasts and on a daily you know, on a small rate every
every few minutes. His entire mission
is I want to collect every single feed that's out there.
That's valid. That's good. He has collections. And he is he is
the National Archive. And he just keeps working with with us
with you in particular to D dupe make sure we get all the
everything in there. It's fantastic.
His brain is basically just a huge opml file is what it is.
Yeah.
Well, thank you very much. Again, Chris. Thank you. I
really appreciate that. He's, you know,
he's like he's building.
He's building some kind of project that he explained to me
once and after, we have to get another explanation from him.
Because he's got some crazy idea he wants to do.
Let's see. Okay, we got Ray fleischman gave us $25 I could
not find a note from Ray. So
the name sounds familiar though. Thank you. Appreciate it.
We got here.
Okay. Okay,
this is a $25 donation. And it says hi guys just call me.
Yeah. Okay.
Just call me vit Ville via Ll E. villa.
Mm hmm.
Okay. All right. Yeah, this this is promised this is the promised
raise for Dave. Pronounce if you can pronounce my name correctly
without cheating. I'll send you another one.
v. Okay, vi Ll E.
Vi Ll E. Yeah,
Sam. Yeah, you Sam you go on vacation and you want holiday
France? It's got to be view right view? Yeah. mean Ville
view. Oh, Sam. Did I hear French accent?
A little bit of a French accent?
per
se it's like basket bean.
Yeah. busca via the Exactly. veal. Okay, good. We nailed it.
So you got another race coming, Dave.
Okay. That I just want to say that you got YouTube. And then
the dude from Alabama trying to pronounce everything that just
does not sound like I don't think I have the correct role.
No, I
think it's nothing.
It's veal y'all.
veil, veil veil.
Right.
Ask me Ma, Ma. Ma. Thank you.
Merci beaucoup.
Via view. Yeah, I have the wrong job on the show. Sit there say
Adam portress gave us $10. And Adam says hello, gentlemen. Adam
portress here from SC I guess South Carolina is just a lowly
podcaster euro movie podcast among many others, to someone
who knows next to nothing about all of this and I feel I must
support and say thanks today for the help. So here's a little
value for value. I helped him get his feet on the value blog.
Oh, beautiful. What's the name of the podcast? What's the
newest podcast?
Hero movie park
the hero movie. Okay, check it out. I'll send you some stats
bro.
Had no idea what I'm doing but I'm about to build a Raspberry
Pi and make my own no nice.
You are in for a ride.
A few people on the mastodon there They've done that. They're
like, man, I just ordered a Raspberry Pi. I got no idea what
I'm doing.
I have been doing tech support for surge gene for a week now.
And I say, Hey, man, why don't just get some voltage Nononono.
So he's he's, you know, got Dockers and see like, Hey, man,
do you want any What? I'm going to troubleshoot this in text for
you? Very nice though. You know what, that's the way to learn,
man. That's how I learned you. You're in for an education.
Jean is in be interviewed on Jane's show next week.
Yeah, Gene, sir gene speaks is something that must be listened
to his interviewing everybody. Yeah. Well, it must be listened
to regardless. But he's interviewing all of the
developers everybody can get his hands on. And I really
appreciate that. He's, he's really, he's really pushing
podcasting. 2.0 in all of its glory, not just the sad story,
but you know, all of the namespace stuff that's in this
podcast.
He's a great pilot, you know, I coached him on that, too. He was
like, he was doing one time one point to speed in recording and
chopping out all the silences. I said, Dude, no, no, dude, no,
no. so mad. Sorry, we cleaned them up. We took them to the
Adam Curry podcaster clinic he's safe now.
Adam says I'll take some art today to karma for good luck if
he got it. Keep fighting the good fight boys. Adam portress
cue paper.
And karma. You've got
karma
shows bleeding over.
Yes. bleeding.
Your paper purple district where you go Wow, good. crumble,
crumble ask.
We got this. Some Ryan, Ryan Hayes emailed about that's
that's all of our donation says that when I get a note to read
though. He says Hi, I'm Dave love the podcast. I'm the
creator of an open source flutter library called just
audio, which has helped app developers create cross platform
Platform Podcast apps for iOS, Android, and the webinar that
right on he says unfortunately, I'm stretched to the limit
handling feature requests. B says I was hoping you might be
able to give a shout out to the project and hopefully entice
some of your listeners, specifically those who are
developers of podcast apps to join in the effort to build a
powerful open source audio library that will hopefully
allow more app developers to developers to bring their
podcast app ideas to life. Nice. Yeah, interested developers can
get what's
it called? What's it called?
It's called just audio. It's a flutter library. And the that he
says he he, he asked on that. He says thanks for the work on the
namespace in the index. But you need to pee as he says couple of
shows ago Adam mentioned the flutter guys quote the flutter
guys always wind up doing the iOS part last. I'm sure there's
a reason for it, unquote. And he says, although each app
developer may have their own reasons for not releasing a
platform when they were theoretically could I can say
that the flutter podcast apps are also ultimately limited by
the features and platforms supported by the underground
underlying audio library. That is why I'm hoping to attract
more contributors to fill in that missing support. He says
the difference in the iOS is the iOS audio API's are actually
more complex than the Android ones. Yeah. And it takes more
than a couple of lines to what it takes a couple of lines to
achieve an Android may in some cases take 20 or more lines in
iOS. So he's just saying that there's a lot
the audio supports not there. Right. And so I put you on I put
a link to the GitHub in the show notes. And just so you know,
they were flutter favorite. says it right? They got a badge
flutter favorite.
podcast index favorite.
fluffer favorite. I've been advocating for that. I can't get
it. Well, thank you all for the value you gave us. That is
really appreciated. It does keep stuff running, keep stuff.
You should defragment that whole that whole group of people.
You guys are good and defragmented Beautiful. podcast
index.org if you want to support a Sam Hello, yes, you're
welcome, member of the board here today. Outside outside of
the NFT thinking which I appreciate and having heard you
said that I'm certainly will keep my eyes and ears open for
anything that I see that might be appropriate. What else can we
do? Or for you for your shows for poor children in Africa? I
mean, what can we do that would make you happy? Is there
anything within our power?
Yeah, one thing I spoken today and I'd love to come back on the
show and talk about it at another time. I still think in
the area of discoverability. There is something Dave around
trackbacks and pingbacks that we can take from the original RSS
feed And use for elements within the player. So I would love as a
listener of a podcast be able to put a comment or, you know,
physically, of course, like it used to be in a blog or a pink
background track, I'd love to be able to do something audibly to
that in the middle of me listening, I can say, Oh, wait a
minute, 23, there was something really interesting that was said
by Adam and Dave, and then be able to tweet that out or push
that out of some mechanism. So that then the person gets that
unique URL identifier within the RSS, so that it says, yep,
podcast x minute y. Yep, that's the point. I'm going back to
exactly within this. There's not like chapters is beyond
chapters. It's it's literally like segments with inside of
chapters even. That will, I think, help with
discoverability.
Hold on a second. Just at the on the heels, man on the cusp of
the show. We are going to do it everybody. Hey, now it's hot.
That's right. Because we got sound clips, sound bites, we got
recommendations. Take it away, Dave.
Well, we reopened the namespace, work today, or excuse me
yesterday with phase three by to clean up the repo and get all
that stuff go in and just kind of get get everything put back
together so that we can start back work. And what we're
looking at for phase three is trailers. That just right off
the bat trailers license, where you can attach like a, you know,
if you wanted to make your whole show, let's just say creative
comments, so people could share it and reuse it. You could tag
it with a license. We're going to look at adding location
data to the chapters. And then this this may be well doesn't
doesn't this? Doesn't this fit in already with sound bites and
with recommendations? I mean, what I just heard Sam asked for
Yeah. It's literally sound guys.
Recommendations is the last is the other one that we're going
to try to get out. And that's Have you read that? And he's
seen that proposal, Sam? Yes, I
have. Yeah. What do you think?
What do you think? Yeah, that'd be incorporated into what you're
saying?
Yeah, well, it is a recommendation is a
recommendation to a point within the podcast, isn't it? So it's
telling me where I should start. Because so many podcasts have so
many things in it, we chat tries everything on pod land. And
that's great, but it only takes to a start of thing. But I want
to the way that we try and promote our podcast is I take a
two minute snippet from the audio. And I put that into a
headline or and I put it out a social media teaser trailer. But
that's not really what I want. I want to be able to have the
users choose not me, as the creator choose right thinks the
best. I want the user to say this is the bit I recommend and
take that out and share it with their community. And then that
drags more people in, because I don't know what everybody who's
listening found most interesting.
Yeah, as he is the recommendation XML
chunk, it's a little different.
It is different, but I want but I wonder if it can go both ways.
But isn't this isn't this also kind of the way I run chapters
with the external file, which is unique to chapters actually,
because they're outside of the RSS feed? And, and you know
what, this comes from hyper catcher where you're listening.
This is an Have you tried that? If you haven't tried the hyper
hyper catcher app, it's worth ago, Sam, okay? Because Because
you're listening, and this is how I came up with the idea,
actually, you're listening and like, Oh, crap, this is a great
moment, I'd like to tweet that I'd like to do something in
hyper catchers case, you tap it, it says, okay, you can put in a
tag and a title and a URL. And that goes into a back end, a
moderation interface. So you can approve them. Because obviously,
there's some things just may not want to have show up that people
tag or what they say. And so that's the idea of community
based chapters, which updates throughout the lifecycle of of
the episode. If that's something that would work in that manner
that you could you can basically tag Well, you should be able to,
I guess you'd be able to
take that. Hmm, we'll see. SoundCloud used to have Yes,
they did have that. Yeah, yeah. And what it was great was that
you can look at the whole SoundCloud audio playback and
see, actually the interesting parts that people have tagged
right and up and jumped to them, which is just think this. Go
ahead. No, I just think there's something in that whole thing
and I thought about this song.
So when you when you were you get pod land, a technically
would not matter what app you're looking at, and you will see
that timeline you're talking about, and it will show
everything this will be just like YouTube's you to chat every
single time someone hit the boost button, they could add so
they can boost and they can add a message like, Oh, this is a
great job, great segment, whatever it is, and then you and
everyone else can go back on that timeline, and see all those
boosts and the comments that each user put in and it would
work across all apps. Yeah, that's what you want, right?
Yeah. Okay. You have two more wishes. What else can we do for
you? Yeah, you rub the lamp, Sam. You rubbed it. So you've
got to take
the genie wishes. Okay. My other wish then is to take you for a
beer when you're next in the UK bar.
Brother. I would love that. And likewise, if you're if you ever
find yourself in Austin, I miss my friends in in the UK. I miss
my daughter too. She's just across the pond. You got it. I
would love that. I would love that. And I couldn't even come
to your local man.
Absolutely. Excellent. Yeah.
I know how to find.
Follow the money.
Follow the money to
really appreciate you taking your your Friday evening, Sam. I
know it's you got to watch. So you're now you missed dinner or
someone's pissed out? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So really appreciate
that. Dave, anything else for you for the for the
before we close this board meeting. I got something. I want
something for Sam. Sam, is your ice cast for your radio? Is your
ice cast URL? Is that public?
No, but I can I will send it to you happily.
Okay, cuz I want to we've got some guys like Alex gates on the
mastodon. He's very heavily working on trying to get a live
tag to try to build that protocol. And I would love to
use that. That stream as a test. Host. No worries.
I will send it to you after this conversation. Beautiful.
Okay, beautiful. Gentlemen, thank you very much. This has
been a great board meeting. Yeah, David. Well, I'm off next
week. I haven't had a vaycay and we're having not done shows for
15 months, so and I am still a newlywed technically. So my
beautiful bride and I are going to go away. We do have a great
pre recorded interview with you with Ryan Gentry. Who's the does
well. I asked him for his title, but he's the business
development guy at lightning labs. But he's also one of the
driving forces in the in the entire industry. And he's a
super great connector and a very fun guy and an austenite to
boot. So we have a pre recorded show with him. I think you'll
enjoy that because we had a good time for sure. And that doesn't.
podcasting 2.04
episodes he's 31 we'll be back. And we hope you join us for the
board meeting
till then. Bye Bye, everybody.
You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 visit podcasts in
this dashboard for more information.