podcasting 2.0 for May 21 2021, Episode Number 38 don't feed the
monkeys.
I know it's a gift. What can I tell everybody? It's time for
the Friday board meeting of podcasting. 2.0 everything going
on in podcast index.org and of course the mastodon podcast
index dot social.
Always fun to check in and have a very busy schedule today. I'm
Adam Curry in Austin, Texas and then Alabama. proud father of
two daughters in the sun. My friend on the other end, Mr.
Dave Jones.
Yeah, my 19 year old daughter just bought a motorcycle.
This is what I mean. You're proud daddy.
What did you get? What did you get? What kind of motors
motorcycles you get? What power? Is she got a Honda CB 300. Wow.
Yeah.
Trying not to be terrified.
Yeah, you probably will never get over that feeling. Oh,
that's the that's the only thing I had with my daughter. One
agreement was kind of a twofer. One is you can always call me if
you need a ride and you know, whatever the state is, whatever,
you know, whatever country whatever the issue is no
questions asked. And the second one never ever get on anything
with less than four wheels.
And she's literally has said to people now. Oh, and also no hot
air balloons. I told her that too. I said those things are
dangerous. That's Yes. You know, land you control crashing that
says Spoken like a true pilot.
I've done a couple balloon fly. I have respect for those guys,
but it's not my type of aviation. And she's kept to
that. But man, the CB 300 that's a serious bike. It's it's
considered like a you know, quote unquote, as, like a good
learning bike. And I'm like, it's more than learn. I mean,
it's to me, like a 125 or something. That's a learning
bike. Yeah. That's like, is it fourstroke? It must be
fourstroke. Right? Yeah. Yeah. It's like It's like a you know,
crotch rocket looking thing. Yeah. And I'm, yeah, I saw it.
And I was like, had this split brain because I'm kind of a
motorcycle guy. On one end, you go like, Hey, man, I'd love to
spin that on the dirt track. Yeah.
And the other hand, you're getting on what? Yep, exactly.
The dad in me is like, Oh, my God and the dude. And he's like,
Man, that's cool. Yeah, I feel you there brother. I feel you
there you went. Was it graduations this week, you had
you had something going on with the kids. Not really
graduations, but it's just in the school stuff.
My kids go to a private school here in the in the city, in my
was where my wife teachers. And so they have this thing every at
the end of every school year. And we're just like, it's just a
big celebration, essentially. So I'm still recovering from that
on Wednesday. Oh, really. We they have a big school. It's a
small school. There's only like, roughly 100 kids to go there. So
they have this thing. They have a huge game of capture the flag
that they play with pretty much the whole school and parents can
do it and everything. And of course, I just went you know,
balls to the wall
with a bunch of 18 and 19 year olds Dave, is that you? Okay? So
your body's hurting is what you're telling me? Oh, I'm dying
my legs. I mean, I get up the next morning now with hobbling
is funny because it's like me in this other guy who's in his 40s
you know, we we all we just went all out against these. These
teenagers. Were like he had a busted up knee. He's bleeding
and havlin I'm hobbling. You know, we're like, Yeah, not
young anymore. No, well, I bring this up. Because sometimes
people forget when they're, you know, when it's so easy to talk
about podcasting, and podcasts and podcast apps and hosting
companies forget that every single one of these these
entities is you know, there's blood, sweat and tears in there
from real human beings who have families and jobs and other
things to do. And so patience is always is always nice. Yeah,
totally 100% that's a good thing to always remember is when
there's people on the other side of all this stuff.
And so with that in mind, I'm now going to rip some people to
shreds. Yes, please proceed.
Well, a couple things dawned on me this past week, and I guess I
just wasn't able and I'm gonna try and put it into words today
to explain what I see happening and, and where things are going.
So I checked out podcasting 1.0 you know, I went back in as you
know, what's the what is uh, what is the standard podcast?
Doing what what are people up to? And
something that I think is very podcasting 1.0
Is the am B's, the Academy, the podcast Academy Awards? I
believe this was their first annual award show. Did you put
our where's our ambia? Did you already do you put it on the
mantel or Were you the one that they shipped you in the mail
window. I will say the statues are that were the best thing
about the whole awards. Status quite pretty. statue is very
pretty, pretty design.
But I found this to be incredibly sad. The whole thing
was disheartening. First of all, production wise, everyone's
trying to be nice in the podcast space. It was a piece of shit.
It was two cameras. There was not there was never one single
close up that I don't think the cameras were even operated
reaction shot 14 people in a 30 by 30 soundstage.
Let me stop you for say you people need to understand that
you are a media. I mean, you spent your whole life in not
just in media, but in television. Yeah. So you I mean,
you speak from 100% Oh, yeah, knowledge of how this all works.
Yes. And I've been a part of award shows. And it was just it
was very sad as a so called streaming event or telecast and
I don't even I don't think that
the podcast Academy even understands that the Los Angeles
Times you wrote up a piece before the event, it totally
taking the piss out of the whole thing. Like, Oh, well, perhaps
the podcasters will save the award shows.
It's pretty pathetic.
It's just the production. But but really what I saw was big
technology companies
and their content. That's all that it was. It was a full award
show. Somehow we now have you know, what you and I do now
we've been
demoted to indie, indie podcasting is podcasting.
There's no, there's no indies in podcasting. So I reject that
premise. But you know, based upon that terminology, I didn't
see any Indies. In fact, this whole thing looked like a
pathetic Star Search, all I missed was Ed McMahon to come
out and go.
Because what has happened, and I just want everyone to understand
with podcasting, 1.0, not a single person really cares about
podcasting itself, the idea that there's an independent way to
create and broadcast and receive whatever you want. Instead, this
has turned into an industry of people looking for ads, and
acquisition, and every piece of content, you have to understand
Hollywood out of ideas, they've been out of ideas for a long
time, they're also out of the job, because all of their movies
are now being streamed the new studios are Amazon, it is
Netflix, and who's doing podcasting, Amazon, not forget
about an app or anything like they don't give a shit about
that. These guys are trolling for talent. They want to get
great concepts, own that concept, own the talent, the
writing talent in particular behind it, and then turn that
into streaming. I would say video content is pretty much the
main thing. So the people who are at these awards are all
based on or not all, but the majority based on investor
money.
And the promise of either huge ad,
ad revenue, which I don't think anyone believes that everyone's
kind of there to be acquired by Amazon or Netflix, or Google or
Spotify. Or maybe there's some kind of special Apple deal that
you can get. So what what is happening there is it's just
it's like, it's the farm team. It's like, okay, now all dance
monkey boys and girls dance and do your little show. And whoever
gets an award who you might get an offer from Spotify, you might
go to the Joe Rogan things. Oh, you might be wondering mind
bringing an exclusive. It's all about hits. That's all that
anyone and listen to the podcasting news or read it. It's
all about you know who, which show went to which host. And,
and oh, I know, this is fantastic. They got this guy
from Apple, and he's now working at q code and they make top
notch content. Sure, sure. But it's not it's really just trying
to get to some other level. And no one's really focusing on
podcasting. Does that make sense? Oh, well, I think there's
a bunch of stuff that confirms that, like read this article
will say this is from May 17. Spotify wants to hire a
Hollywood. This is the this is the headline. Spotify wants to
hire a Hollywood vet to oversee its podcasting studios. Yeah,
and Netflix. Netflix is hiring a podcast, a manager of all
podcasts, Netflix, you know that, that I don't think many
people be using
Netflix app to listen to any podcast. It's all about content
acquisition for these guys. They don't give a shit no one cares
about about the actual Spotify, because they kind of sold the
the investment but based upon people using their app for
podcasts, but everyone else, they just want the content and
they out of ideas. Big tech doesn't actually know how to be
creative that way. Well, they're like, I'm sorry, I can't show
you. Like, a perfect example of them being out of I have been
big tech, being out of ideas is the retread of Google Reader.
This being baked into Chrome, as you know, like they've announced
that a couple of days ago, that they're going to have a new
Chrome is going to have a follow button. And you can follow RSS
feeds. Right in right in the browser. Yeah. Okay. So when
Lucy puts the football down, I don't run up anymore to kick it.
Yeah, exactly. No way. No way that I want to talk. I want to
talk about that separately. But but on one thing, I think that
fits in with what you're talking about also is the and this is
not this was not in the podcasting news, but is the at&t
discovery deal.
Like
that. That whole thing just proves that media is a train
wreck right now. Big, big media.
There's no pathway to any sort of, like these things aren't
profitable anymore. It doesn't seem
like I'm in the way that used to be, if anybody because so as you
know, at&t is having to basically unwind all this stuff
that they spent all this money on, you know, over the last was
over 10 years. And then what happens if you go back? What's
interesting is I was I was listening to some breakdown of
this. And they were talking about they said at the time,
when the at&t Time Warner deal first first originated, it got
so much pushback from the Federal Trade Commission,
because they were they were all concerned about it being
monopolist having the content and the pipes, which is the
dream, the dream of which they failed that consistently. Yeah.
And it's not just I think the lesson is, it's not just a T and
T's mismanagement that couldn't pull it off. It's not if there's
something inherent in media that does not jive with tech. I don't
understand fully what the what, what that means. But I don't
think they're, I think it's an unnatural partnership, that is
never going to fully work.
Maybe Netflix is the one that has gotten closest to it. But
they're only successful, they're really only successful shows, or
when they just sort of wrote a check and let the media guys
just do whatever they really wanted to do. Right? The tech
trying to come in and manage it and make it more like efficient
and all these kinds of like, that is just not I just don't I
think it's a marriage made in hell. And any attempt to for big
tech to take over media in some way, is just destined to fail.
Well, that well, they're changing media. I would argue
that the most successful form of media content is Tick Tock.
From now, that all depends on how you define success.
The problem I have is all I hear is everybody looking at talking
about big tech when it comes to podcasting. And it's so
disheartening.
And here's the thing, there's a lot of interest and a lot of
yearning for something new witness clubhouse. Oh my god,
every everyone's jizzing all over clubhouse, and then all of
a sudden, guess what? Yeah, clubhouse doesn't no one cares.
Sucks. flash in the pan is gone. Of course. I think we said this
from day one. This is not going to last. But if you would listen
to everyone talk. Oh, yeah, we're gonna link into clubhouse
clubhouse. That's where it's at. It's the future of podcasting.
No, it's not. And that's kind of my point. I don't feel
threatened by any of these podcasts and the N B's and
academies and diversity and equity and boards of governors.
That's fantastic. I have no problem whatsoever.
But we have a responsibility to keep this part of it alive and
going and not be something that Google resurrects 15 years from
now and says Oh, yeah, remember this shit.
And, and I think that there's a big reckoning coming a big
reckoning.
Maybe I just see these things in a broader picture. But they're
coming for your lunch. Okay? if you're if you're if you're
basing your your, your business on being a part of Spotify, and
then getting some ads somewhere
You're crazy. It is it is.
The whole advertising business of podcasting is built on a lie.
It's a lie. We are not selling people listening, you're selling
downloads. And in fact, where is the outrage over Apple's broken
podcast app? It's not there. Oh, sure. There's a couple people
posting. There's some news articles about it. But there's
no outrage. Shall I tell you why There's no outrage? I think it's
because people have already moved to different ways of
listening to podcasts, and the subscription just sitting in the
background downloading on their on their Apple App, and they're
not opening it anymore, because it doesn't update on time. And
no, look, no one complained about I got maybe
maybe four complaints total since they switched. And since
the no agenda show doesn't update,
sometimes within a day, within a day for some people to have had
four complaints. That tells me people are not using it. And
only four out of me, you'll have like a million listed least. And
newsflash, newsflash, everybody knows we fast forward through
the ads. It's not like a secret. The whole thing is flimsy built
on, on analyze. And so if no one is going to push hard, and I'm
not and I'm not saying that people aren't, and especially in
the hosting business, there's a couple of really strong players
who are really working very hard to preserve what we have, and
make sure that people still know that they can get an app I don't
hear podcasters saying, Hey, why don't you try out a new app? So
get us on Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast
from? It's time to mention some names people, because you're
just gonna get swallowed up into nothingness. Good. Talk to the
to the documentary, guys. They can't get on anymore. Right now.
Oh, it's free and open. Yeah, everything will be allowed on
Apple. And believe me, coming soon. newsflash. You're not
going to be you're going to be cut off. They'll be you'll just
be cost.
And, and we need we need this ecosystem. So, you know, I know
I'm preaching to the choir. And this is and we have, you know,
going on
more than a dozen apps that are now podcasting 2.0 and that are
completely free of this crazy
infrastructure that is collapsing in on itself into
just a bucket of drivel. Yeah, the the podcast press is the
Gosh, Dave's the endless Spotify, apple, Spotify. Apple
is just like, it's beginning to just kind of drive me a little
bonkers. I'm so I'm so tired of Spotify and apple in it. You
know, I mean, I get it. They're two big players and the past the
past that has given to Apple is unbelievable.
Well, I'm sure they'll get it all fixed this month. Oh, well,
that's just Apple, they just don't communicate. It is no
outrage. If we screwed up the index that bad we would have
been written off after five minutes, and never never talked
about again.
But somehow they just keep going on and go in and go in and
everybody's okay with it.
If you want a glimpse,
I brought some clips.
In this, if you want a glimpse into what sort of big media, the
big media future of podcasting would be.
You can look at armchair experts, which is the latest you
know, of course, we have to have a podcast that goes exclusive.
Yeah, you have to mock them. So they're going they're going
exclusive under the Spotify. No, it's no longer a podcast. It's
just a it's a property. Yes, this Spotify property, okay.
Yeah, they are good. They are going going to go exclusive. And
this is Derek shepherd. He's like an actor. I've never Oh,
yes, yes, yes. I did hear about this deal. Okay.
Let's see. Wait, what are we okay yeah, do for the first one
just says armchair experts. So I've been cleaning my favorite
COVID activity. I've been cleaning. Oh, what rooms Did you
tackle? Oh my gosh, I've been working my way up from the
basement. I'm now in the attic. Oh my goodness. So rarely soup
to nuts making lots of progress. Are you doing a Michelle Kondo
approach is that her name is Marie Kondo. Marie Kondo Are you
like putting things out and seeing like, I love you or I
don't love you? That whole thing? Wow, he's wacky. It's
just a grad shop. Very wacky. That that's, that's your that's
your feature of big media produced podcast.
We're super clean. Nothing offensive. Everybody's on their
best behavior. Yeah, everybody's gonna just barf all over each
other. It's like top 40 radio. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. If that's what
if that's what you want from if that's what we want podcasting
to be, then just just turn it over. Let's just turn it all
over to the wondery. And I mean, and all these big companies that
want to go exclusive and do exclusive deals, and parcast and
all these things. That's that's what you're gonna get. You're
getting. Here's a better example. Play armchair experts
barf one, you have the most arresting blue eyes. They're so
fucking beautiful. When I was watching the Hulu thing. I've
got a really nice television. So I was getting it in 4k. And
they're so unbelievably beautiful. You have the most
beautiful eyes sparkling Monica, would you agree with this
assessment? Yes. Yeah. That is hilarious. Clinton. Oh,
okay. There's something to be said for that.
I appreciate that. He did that. But you know, you could have
said, Why? Why do I see nothing when I look in your eyes
as just like, the whole this is the this is what you get with
media, you get self importance. Yeah. And, and dribbling all
over each other. That's what it is. That's what award shows are.
They're all just a band, bunch of people congratulating each
other for how great they are. And I mean, that's, that's what
you're gonna get, it's highly produced, it's slick. And then
you lose all of the beauty of what makes raw community driven
audio, what it's like what it what it is. And unlike you, I
think the wrongness and the the unpolished of what podcasting is
and has always been, is one of the reasons why it it is what it
is today. It's not the the highly produced stuff that that
has always been available. It's the this is the other side of
that. And they're trying to just sort of wet wedge, the new tech,
this market is sort of like a wedge a bunch of production
value into it and turned it into just like this extra few billion
dollars that they can just tack on to it. Everybody wants to
wants to be acquired. I mean, that's, that's the bottom line.
That's that's what the hits business is about. It's no
different than the record business, any of these big. In
fact,
Spotify knows exactly how this works. And you know, you have
your gimlets and stuff like that. And they're they're kind
of the indie indie labels, and they get bought up and then
those owners make out like bandits. And, you know, just
just just look at who's at the top of Apple, you know, how do
those guys get there, Jimmy Iovine and Dr. Dre.
And then and then you just you have 100 things that you
eventually just drop or pay no attention to? they dry up they
go Trust me. I ran a podcast network. I raised a lot of money
to do it. I thought it would work. And I noticed Oh, wait a
minute, we're never gonna get brand advertisers ever. We have
no measurement system you can ay ay ay b me is all as often as
you want. But it's downloads. It's a farce. It's fake. It's a
lie. And it's an agreed to lie still alive. You have no idea
who's listening, it's probably a lot less than everybody then
then people think. I think you're right about the app, the
apple just downloading stuff in the background, mom's doing it.
My at least three old phones that whenever they flip on they
do that? Absolutely. Yeah, I know.
I get the push notification, saying, Oh, you've got like six
new episodes of this. And I always just flick it away. And
it's been doing that for months and months. And only and it's
funny thing about is that only use the apple podcast app to
test, like download user agent stuff a couple of months ago,
and ever since then, it's just been like downloading,
downloading episodes. And desert registering as downloads from
some for some show that I've never I've never even touched.
You know, the the analogy for me, and it's particularly the
press, and I understand, you know, it's trade press and trade
press, the way it works in case people don't know, is you go to
all the players in the industry and you say sponsor me, and then
you report on everybody. And if it Now that doesn't mean that
there's no actual reporting about non paying, non paying
entities but, you know, obviously, the press releases
are being turned into news and that's just what it is. It's um
you know,
but it doesn't really mean that people are are getting any
any real value or benefit from that other than here's what it's
like TMZ
You know, that's what I'm hearing from from just all these
parties are about Oh, oh great new these guys and they merged
with those guys and they're creating a new talent house.
Well, sure, that's fine, but you're talking about new
shows for big tech, you're not talking about podcasting. And
there's so much and by its very nature, podcasting isn't really
reportable story.
But you know because
what's great for one person is not going to work for another
that's the beauty of it. But we really do need to focus I give
some of these other apps I'm love people highlight one once
in a while do an interview. That's why I appreciate her gene
so much. He interviewed everybody everyone that's doing
something on the hosting side on the app side. And on the Bitcoin
side, in in what are what are app developers get shit. The
only passed over? The only interview with Roy from breeze
that I've heard is on
is from the podcasting world. I mean, is from sir Jean. Yep,
that's, that's it, Nova II. This is a brand new podcast app that
allows it allows
micro payments in cryptocurrency. And nobody's
interviewed in now, because everyone's afraid. And they
don't want to step on toes and they want us to snuggle up to
the big boys so they can get their inside scoops and not be,
you know, not be perceived as too radical. I know how it
works. And I don't I don't blame anybody, but I do need to say
it. Well, yeah, I need to say it. But what what did it sound
like that? I'm sorry. That's, that's the Twitter guy. That's a
lot of guy. No, no, that's that's a different guy. Okay,
Twitter, guys, different
pillars, don't worry, he's coming.
He's late, he's lurking in your basement. So you know, and I'm
not even talking about the value for value stuff. Which, you
know, is, is a way forward to keep everybody involved. And,
and in the in the value flow. You know, and I know that these
things take a while for sure. And there's still a lot of
hurdles and stumbling blocks. And I'm so proud of,
you know, pod friend and breeze and Sphinx and pod station and
Curio caster and pod verse and everyone who's taken some step
and put that stuff in and said, fuck it, you know, man, just try
and do something here. And it's ugly, and it's it doesn't work.
Right. And, you know, it's hard to set up. Let's put it that
way. It's definitely it's, but you know, that's, that's how
podcasting started the first time we didn't learn all that we
didn't know what to how to design, by Oh, and here's how it
will work. Now we learned all these things on the fly. And I'm
so proud of that. I'm just really frustrated that I'm not
getting any press.
At least not pressed that I'm seeing about any of the apps,
any of the hosting companies, any of the forward looking
things they're doing. You know, none of it. And that's just so
disappointing. Now, we don't need the press, but I'm just I'm
just saying you guys are going to be shit out of luck.
One day, you come in here, Hey, can we get a story like now you
weren't there for us?
That's a real Hollywood thing to do.
Big I'm big fan of your work.
Love Your Work, man. salutely. Love Your Work. And I would say
that also, your cat things like I read the story about cat, your
casteau cast O's are cast as bought and bought, potent. The
host is basically one host bought another host.
And the thing that I thought of immediately with that, because I
just read the at&t Time Warner discovery thing is you have to
be very careful when it comes to mergers and acquisitions. I
mean, that's across the board, not just in podcasting, not just
in media, mergers and acquisitions are not a thing
that just works out. You can just you can see a long line of
companies that have looked fantastic on paper for Merck for
a merger, and it's been a complete failure. Oh, yeah.
Well, yeah, he is way more often than he succeeds. And Yahoo was
basically the Whore of the media business has been bought and
sold so many times. And now it's lumped in with a whole bunch of
other crap your 5 billion Take it or leave it. I guess I'm just
I'm just warning, you know, sort of the podcast industry as a
whole that, you know, if you think your exit strategy is just
to find the right merger, I mean, yeah, maybe maybe the
founder gets gets out with some cash. But as far as like the
health of the industry, or the health of even the resulting
companies that come out of that, you know, the stats are clear,
mergers, fail more often than they succeed. And that that goes
across all industries. So if you're trying, you're trying to
form a healthier company, by through mergers, and that's not
always the best strategy. And the same goes
there will be a
you know the hunger Winter is coming.
And and here's how it plays out all these content are winter.
Yeah. All the all these
All these content companies, if they don't produce enough hits,
the funding will stop everyone goes home. That's just that's
just how it's going to go. The
really sweet raisins will be picked right out of the oatmeal.
And if you're not one of them, you're done. And, and I've seen
this movie, this is this is how it's the thinking it's how it
works. I did this, I was a part of it, so I can warn for it.
But the thing with with podcasting, podcasting 2.0 is
that we don't really need press, this is the beauty of it, we
don't need
and we're not going to get it anyway. So what we need is for
podcasters to tell their audience, their listeners to go
check out some new podcast apps. And you know, gee, maybe try one
or two years yourself. And then you can say, Hey, here's
something you might want to try. Because it will keep this show
on the air, your show, insert your show name here. It cannot
it cannot be taken down. And it has a lot of extra features. And
it is a true independent nature distributed decentralized a
podcasting.
And you need to ask your listeners to go and try some
out. Also hosting companies, please consider promoting some
podcasts that are not Apple, Spotify, you know, Amazon,
Google, etc. When the apps to like, but I want the host I want
the hosting companies to promote the apps. Yeah, in the in there
like most hosting companies have newsletters and stuff they put
out on a regular basis, featuring a new, it doesn't even
have to be a part of a value for value type app. Just some other
in independent app is not not owned by the big does exist your
downcast you know overcast pod friend. I mean, any of the you
know, cast, Curio cast or any of the the the apps pod versus a
fantastic app, like some,
like promote some of these independent apps. And that way
it Yeah, I think the holsters needed to promote that as well.
Absolutely. Because that that that shores up their business,
but what I hear some hosting companies doing is just sitting
back, like, Oh, yeah, I'm selling some ads. I update the
Spotify feed. You know, it's all separate. By the way. It's all
backroom deals. He said, conspiratorially.
Yeah, you are? Yeah, there's some kind of deal of Spotify
removes a you have to remove I'm not quite sure how it works. But
there's, there's, there's all kinds of stuff in the works,
which is fine. But please, promote save yourself. Because
what I saw was a couple days ago with an bees does not bode well
for anybody. If that's the path you want to follow. I'm out I'm
stick I'm just gonna stay over here. And we'll just keep on
plugging away. Keep on plugging away. And part of what we're
doing to,
to really make it that much better. I mean, we have to live
up to the 2.0. Name is is pod ping, which I think is now in
full blown full production. It's a fantastic story, because it
uses the hive blockchain in a in a very,
I think a manner that was never really thought of for for
blockchain usage. And it's working like crazy. Yeah. It's
now we need to get adoption, I guess, where are we at with that
just just to explain, very simply,
instead of
a whole bunch of servers and applications and companies
getting RSS feeds with high regularity. And not always doing
it nicely, sometimes doing more than just a header request.
It's just incredible. It's actually it's it's killing the
climate. It's it's really creating global warming, the
amount of of crawlers that are out there, pulling RSS feeds.
And then also, it's complicated. And this is part of the problem
that popped up with Apple's changes. They switch their
system. And so now it can take quite a while before your
podcast feed is updated. And we decided to change that with at
least the hosting companies that were interested in. I think we
have a couple of the big ones on board. So they are now in
essence any podcasting 2.0 app will update, probably within a
10 second window of that show being uploaded. Is that about
right? It's a little it's a little bit longer than that. Oh,
yeah. It's about 40 seconds. Okay. So, um, yes, I think well,
what
have been missing is, or what we have been missing is just sort
of a succinct explanations be of soup to nuts of how, of just the
gist of what this thing is because you know, something
sound by double, so to speak. And so I'm going to, I'm going
to do that or attempt to do that, and
what pod ping is,
and I'm gonna leave, I'm gonna leave that all the web sub, all
that I'm gonna leave that all that talk, okay, pod pain is a
marriage of two pieces of software. It's a web front end
that accepts GET requests with a URL parameter with the feet,
where that's where you're gonna put the Feed URL and a script
that writes to the hub and writes those URLs to the hive
blockchain.
The web front end accepts the URLs from the host.
And it passes them to the to the hive writer script, which writes
them to the hive blockchain. At that point, anybody can be
looking at the hive blockchain to get these updates. Yes. And
so that that is, in a sense, there's a downloadable package
where you can run your own pod paying node, a full node, just
like we run. Oh, sexy. Yeah, yeah, anybody can run this. But
I mean, it's not super useful to you at this point. So the
confusion a little bit come to comes in. In this we saw this
sort of bemrose was on the mastodon asking about it,
is he said, Well, this is just this sounds like just another
way to you know, another centralized system. Because
where the hosting companies are now sending their pings are is
to pod pain, cloud, that's the URL. And as of right now, yes,
it is. Everything goes to one central place. Now, it's not one
server. Currently, there are three servers, all load
balanced. There's one in the United States in Atlanta.
There's one in Frankfurt, Germany for Europe. And there's
one in Sydney, Australia. Oh, Frankfurt one. Is that next to
the Dominion? voting voting machine.
Okay, yeah, that's how you choose the next president as you
listen to a podcast.
So the there's they're spread out all over the globe, and
they're load balanced geographically. So that, you
know, if you're painting from one place you get to the closest
server. So not technically centralized, but I still get
done. I get the vibe, okay. But anybody can tie into the
blockchain isn't isn't you know, it's no secret. You can, you can
just start scanning for those feeds. And you're good to go.
You just you can update which and so that's highly
decentralized. Yeah, as an apple could use this at any moment
whenever they want to. They can use it right now. Yeah, we are
using it right now. So that the thing that we did this morning
is I turned off polling for buzzsprout and RSS Comm.
They're all in there updating is full time. That's that's like
the two biggest guys out there is not
yet so RSS. Albert Alberto.
You know who he's he's famous for writing the paper on,
essentially, the academic paper on sex robots. We interviewed
him on the show. Yes. He is evidently trying to get as he's
trying to make the front page of Drudge Report.
Robots are coming. Now he that he
he mailed and said, He's like, we got it up and running. We're
pinging y'all. So they were the first company to start sending
pings to piping. And it just started flowing. Beautiful. look
great. Tom Ross, he hit me up, you know, a little while later
said, Hey, are you ready for us to start sending? I said, Yeah,
go ahead. He started sending. So now we got RSS calm, and
buzzsprout, both sending every time somebody on one of their
platforms, publishes a new episode or changes the feed the
info in their feed, it sends a it sends a ping to the piping
cloud says eautiful. And so from the moment that they ping us,
to the time when we get that new episode into our database, and
it shows up on the site and to all of our apps is about 40
seconds, on average.
That means and so the the chain is like this RSS com. Since
paying with the URL,
the URL gets put into a into a queue on our side. After fifth
every 15 seconds. The queue is
dumped to the right to the hive writer script, which writes
those attempts, which queues them itself for a few seconds to
save up enough to try to get a bunch of URLs in the same block,
right? It then writes all those URLs to the current block. Then
at that point, it's on the chain. So that process can take
20 to 25 seconds, outrage, typically, total total effort.
The so that, at that point,
you everybody out there, who is running the hive, watch your
script, you can go to, you can go our, if you look at our
podcast index organization on GitHub, you'll see the pod pink
cloud repo and all this code is in there. It's all open source.
You anybody who's running the hive watcher script. And you can
do this right now you can go download the clone the repo, and
then run the simple dash watcher dot p y script is a Python
script, the instructions on how to do it are on the repo README,
run that script. And what you'll start seeing is just a constant
firehose of feed URLs, printing one line at a time across your
screen.
So as soon as those URLs are written to the hive blockchain,
everybody in the world is this running hive watcher script.
will see those pop up on their screen as it's reading from the
most current block of the blockchain. Yeah, it's super
sexy, man. I'm gonna put this, put a link to the GitHub. Okay,
yeah, in the show notes for this. Yeah. So what we what I
did on my side, but took, I've just taken the simple watcher
script, and piped it, it's this is literally just a screen
session right now on on one of our utility servers, taking just
one simple watcher pipe into a simple PHP script that just
looks for a URL to show up in the pipe, and marks it in the
database for immediate for immediate polling. So for the
team at Apple, that is the pod ping GitHub repo, it's in the
show notes. You can use the watcher, it will save you a lot
of pain. Yes.
You can, you can stop, you can stop polling buzzsprout and RSS
calm today, right now, as we speak, yet, we already did it
and it's working great. I mean, you know, and we no longer pull
them. And that would that would save so much hassle and, and
pain and and money, quite frankly. and kept captivate I
heard from Kiran. And he emailed me and said, Yeah, we're all on
board with this. And so he I sent him a posting key, an
authorization token. And so he'll he said within the next
couple of days, he's going to have that into their system. And
then we'll we'll start pulling them to everybody who wants any
hosting company who wants to get on board with this. Just email
me, I'll send you an authorization token. This is all
still technically in beta. But it's completely stable so far. I
mean, we've seen very, very few quirks with this thing. And I
just I just love watching the
pod ping God watch. Yeah, that's a cool, cool app. Yeah. Oh, my
God, it's just you just sit there all day? Yeah. Oh, look at
this. And I Oh, let me push into that one. And I will say that
there's a lot of disappointment often when you click on some
things.
But often, it's so surprising, you know, and that's just what
it is. in use, it's a great way to fund new feeds like CRISPR I
seen it, he was like, yeah, there's a bunch of these feeds
that are not in the index. And he's so he of course, like he
always he immediately just starts grabbing, he starts fish,
netting those things and feeding them back into the index. So the
word cat, you know, capturing things that we didn't we didn't
have before. But anyway, that's that's the that's the whole
system front to back. Now, if you're independent, how do you
participate in this? Can you can you review request
access to to post your ping to ping your post?
Okay, to post your ping to pod the.
So that's the second part of this. That's the part that damn
Rose was misunderstand or not, excuse me, he's not
misunderstanding, it just has not been expressed properly.
So, the beginning of this is, obviously there's no there's an
alpha stage and then a beta stage.
Where we try to make sure everything is stable and works
in in order, I think that at the end of this thing, we're going
to end up with a hybrid approach. So there's going to
be, there's going to be popping cloud. And to send request to
pod bean cloud, you need an authorization header that you
can include in your GET request for that, and and for that, you
just need you need to email me, I'll send you one, it takes two
seconds.
They should put you there, you should put that in the docs.
Yeah, I will, I will.
And the other part is going is
for independent host people that run their own cell phones, yes,
because I soon will be a cast apob user, so I'm fully
expecting to be able to ping from there.
So that is, what you need for that is not the full pod pain
cloud software. Ah, what you need is just the hive writer
script, you just need the script that writes something to write a
URL to the hive blockchain in the proper format. The trick,
though, is you need a set of hive posting keys, you need an
all you need an account within the hive system, or excuse me a
set of a set of keys. That right there.
So why why why wouldn't cast a pod just hit the hit the URL,
like the hosting companies are? Well, because they every every
step, every app would need their own authorization. Right? Right.
Right. I understand. Okay. Yeah. And it's much more fit at that
point. And then it's easier for them to just put that in there.
And with some instructions on how to get your, your key and
your, your high your hive treats, or
whatever, whatever things you need over there, which
apparently is not all that hard. It's just I haven't looked at
it. And the see the end that solves the decentralization
part. So when everybody themselves are writing to the
hive blockchain, then you're truly decentralized. Yes,
piping, cloud will still exist for you know, big hosting
companies and this kind of thing. But when other when
everybody themselves are writing to to the hive chain, then then
you'd have a truly decentralized system. And that's the way this
thing eventually evolves into being decentralized. We just,
it's just too much trouble right now to figure all that out. That
that will be step two, down down the line. And I want people to
actually start playing around with him figure it out now, like
Andy layman, he's, you know, he's, he said he, you know, is
gonna look into it, he may end up coding up something, I think
it's gonna, I think it would be very simple to do. And the so
the tricky part is,
in order to have some sense of,
I don't know what you would call it authority, or trust adness.
On the chain, then the hive watcher script,
begins to what it expects
is for everything to be coming from our account. So our account
is the one that is posting, right, all of these URLs. Right,
right, right. So the hive watcher, the watcher script on
that everybody's runs on their machine expects all these URLs
to be coming from either that account, or accounts that we
have delegated to as authorized.
So let's just say that bemrose, or Andy wants to post directly
to the hive blockchain from their WordPress installs or
whatever, I'm not sure what what bemrose is running,
they would need to have posting key.
And we would need to milk soda, so called bless, we would need
to bless their key. And but by following it, what they call
following on high, once we follow that key, that account,
then it's good to go. Then the hive watcher script begins to
include all the URLs they post in the output. And it's just an
anti spam mechanism is right. Right, right. So that's, that's
how that will work. And so what we need is we need a way, we
will need some way to figure out how to, like, bless this. And
Alice gates wrote a really good article. I don't know if you
read it, Yes, I did. Another thing I need to put a link to.
And he goes in depth about how this sort of rapid block rapid
blockchain technology is going to help things in many different
ways. One of the things he touches on is it you know, that
That you can go ahead and post to the chain.
Even if you are not kind of blessed by us, you can, you can
just do it you can you can get some high posting keys and start
writing to the hive blockchain, your own custom URL custom JSON
blobs with these URLs in the hive watcher script out of the
box is not initially going to see those, it's going to ignore
them. But other software can be born or other people can just
begin to watch broader things that they trust. But it doesn't
all depend on us. Right? You know, it this is this is a
decentralized thing. And with decentralization comes sort of a
slow motion.
decentralizing thing is it things is, is a slow motion
process, this kind of this sort of friction based, like you
people, you have to figure out the best ways that these things
work, you don't have the benefit of having somebody come in and
just tell you from the very beginning, this is the way all
this systems gonna work done. That's not how open source and
freedom works. freedom works through a process of discovery
and exploration. But also freedom always requires a little
extra effort. Yes, exactly. Yeah. The Alex gates
article is called podcasting 2.0 the last mile, and it's linked
in the show notes. It's a very good read. Very good read. And
I'd like to challenge both blueberry and Lipson. I was
listening to the new media show this morning. And they were for
lack of a better word bitching about apples polling, and how
many times it's hitting the server or not, or how
ineffective it is. And they both literally said, Oh, if only
there were a way we could just ping you Apple, and then you
know about it? Well,
unless they consider podcasting 2.0 and the more than 10 apps
that are currently using these protocols, if you think that
they're lesser than Apple, then for sure, you know, let us just
continue to pull you or why don't you ping us? It's very
simple. You can do it today. And we could stop polling, and it
would it would put a real stake in the ground. I know that
they're just unaware because they're really busy. Well, then
I heard. I haven't I don't know if there's been an issue. But I
heard on the previous episode of The New Media show that
one of the comments today. Okay, well, the previous episode, Rob
had mentioned pod pain to Todd and he said, Yeah, we'll be glad
to start pinging them. So they have no problem with it. I just
haven't reached out to him yet. Okay, so I know at least
blueberry will start. I'm not sure you know, that lives in
that. I hope they will, too. It's so easy. Like, you could
just and we can do something forward.
I mean, I don't know how many times we're pulling their feeds.
Who knows? Who knows? I got no idea. But all I know is if it
feels so good to just go into the aggregator and just
basically just cut off the you know, 100,000 feeds. Oh,
beautiful. And you say we're just not going to check them
anymore? Nope. Don't have to it always tell us yeah, it all
works is beautiful. Yeah. Oh.
Speaking of new media shoe.
I thought this was a good shoe.
Ad advertising one. erectile dysfunction is a big category
being advertised in podcast right now.
Hmm. Okay. It is. It's huge. Yeah, I talked about this no
agenda yesterday cuz I heard them talking about this too. Oh,
really? Yes. Yes. It's, it's sad.
Yeah.
Go ahead and play part two. So I was told by media buyer that
they're targeting 25 to 35
for ad meant. Okay.
On game 25 to 35 CPM. No, no, no. Ah, hey, screw. Okay. Oh, 25
to 35.
We have a lot of unhealthy people, young people in this
country. I guess.
I actually asked the guy three times, not 45 to 65.
No 25 to 35. I'm like, God help us population.
Yeah. So there's two parts to this. One is
why are you marketing to younger men?
The answers that I've received back from the no agenda audience
are very sad. The majority say, Oh, it's because of excessive
masturbation due to porn, which was one of my thoughts. That's,
I mean, that's what I mean, either. I've always been told
either it's not you're going to break it, or you'll go blind or
hair on your poem. So there was probably something to that. And
I don't know if you have it in the third clip, but what was
funny because I know Todd and it was funny, at the same time,
kind of disturbing them. He was very happy to have the pharma
ads despite, despite the the obvious horribleness that is
going on with this particular advertiser. So pharma all day
long. Oh, you have a hold on a second.
Yes, this one, I'll take pharma all day long. Yeah.
Apparently, a lot of a lot of podcast listeners and gamers
take pharma all day long. I thought that was a fascinating
discussion about about the state of advertising. What did you
have any of that because they're basically they sat there and
calculated that like, half a percent of all podcasts are
making all the money. Yeah. And everything else is is not making
money. That's they literally did that. And I think they were a
little surprised themselves. Yeah, if you if nobody has
listened to that, go back to listen to the
next to the latest, the penultimate pod new media show.
Yes. And, and follow along with their discussion. It is quite it
is quite interesting to hear them break down the math of how
all they have who exactly how many podcasts in industry are
really truly getting monetized. It is not very many. And and and
I'll add to that, although they didn't discuss it specifically.
And a lot of that is thrown into radio advertising. So they'll be
a radio by and we'll throw in some podcast and that's what I
hard to do in this how they sell it.
I didn't know that. Of course, it's and you they just merged
the sales teams of all that all those companies they bought. It
merged it in. It's I know I've come from this business, I
pioneered some of this dreck. So that's why it's appropriate for
me to warn about what's happening. Now we have an
alternative to that, which is the value for value model. And I
finally got down to writing this up in a way that I think at
least gets people started. That's why I titled How to
receive Bitcoin in real time for your podcast, with some very
simple how does it work and then write to I have a lightning
node, I know what I'm doing, or I know what I'm doing. I don't
have a lightning node or her.
Yeah, and and that's it value for value.io if you want to send
someone there so they can understand it value for value
and the value number four value value for value.io. And if you
want to send your listeners to check out some cool podcast
apps, it's new podcast apps.com. These are things you can
remember.
Yeah, that I thought that that piece that you wrote was really
good. Because we've, like, every time we do something where we
have to put wording on a page, it always starts off this back
end discussion of a like, this doesn't feel right, this doesn't
this feel this doesn't explain it. Right. And, and finally,
you're just like, screw it, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna write this
whole thing out the right way, the way that it needs to be
explained and just gonna do it. Well, what prompted me is so
many people saying how do I do it? And you know, this little
there's just little gotchas along the way that that, you
know, little things that we put in there that like, confuses
people. So when you find one of those, you want to grab it right
away and like, Okay, how can I explain that differently? How
can we make it work?
And, you know, we we clearly still, really, we're in a good
place. Yeah, we have a we're on track to do 100,000 transactions
this month. At least that's a lot. Yeah, we were at 67,000
last month. So to go to about 100,000 it's between 80 and 100
somewhere.
And that's that's the only metric that I'm sticking to now
because if you do it by Satoshi you sent it you get the worst
charts.
It's really it's not helpful at all. You just want to know how
many people are sending a transaction and whether it's a
per minute or a boost. Most of them are obviously per minute.
And and that that feels the right way. That's what Roy at
Brees is doing. And I wanted to add that what we're doing with
the lightning network is incredibly important to
lightning labs.
Ryan Gentry will be doing a talk at the Bitcoin conference, the
Bitcoin 2021 in Miami, and and and he has three points on his
agenda and number two is podcasting. 2.0 as
lightning labs
Just made a he came over the other day just real quick. It
was it was kind of weird because this was when Bitcoin just
started to tumble. And you know, I think that Ryan had kind of
hoped, okay, just wrapping up a few things here got a board
meeting, then we have Bitcoin, Miami, and then we're on to the
next thing. And you know what he's being the new business guy
business development guy, what he didn't need is a lot of
people calling saying, I'm ruined.
I left my whole career for this, where's this going and remind me
to tell you about what happened is I have a theory on that.
However, because we came over, we're just chatting. And
you know, this is this is not the this, this happens in the
history of Bitcoin. And there's different reasons for it. And
this one's a little different, which, in fact, I find exciting.
But we'll get to that.
And he said, You know, we've made a decision, and I'm
paraphrasing here, so don't hold me to it.
Lightning labs has always been
developing lnd that a node?
with developers in mind, so the developers asked for things, and
yes, that's how you get wallets and you get roulette games, and
you get certain functionality for certain pieces. And, and a
lot of what they've created is done, and you know, it doesn't
take off, nothing happens. It's, you know, just it's a dud, it
happens. So they want to move much closer towards what they
call the creators, which I refuse, but okay. And so they're
asking, what do we need? What can we ask them for, that they
can put in, that will make this home. And the first thing I said
was connect to this wallet.
That's the number one thing I want connect to this wallet. So
there's a couple things one, he pointed me towards
socket sockets dot money, which I posted on the mastodon, no one
saw it,
which is a version of what we're talking about, you can connect a
wallet to an app sockets dot money. It's not what we need, I
don't think but it's it's a start. But he took he
understands exactly what I'm talking about.
He feels that the so called static invoices, which will be a
slight or maybe more slight change to the way
keys and works now, that may offer a hell of a lot of
solutions, which is part of the reason why we're in on this
early and you Eric and myself have already been asked, I think
he received an invite
to join one of these roundtables.
So have your shit ready? Because whatever we asked for it,
they're really going to try and do.
So these are the things that that excite me when when I hear
that, you know, this is not a slouchy bunch of people over
there. And we have shown them that there is a use case, and
that there are people using lightning using micro payments,
far and beyond anything that's being done right now. Anything.
Yeah. And we all should be pretty proud of that.
Yeah, that's 100%. And then you get the feedback directly from
people like Mitch is said, You know,
I can't is just a terrible user experience to try to throw my
user back and forth between his external API. Yeah, an external
API and the app and just keep kicking you to kick them back
and forth to go create an account over here and deals cut
stuff, copy paste, really, yeah, I really just want a connect to
wallet. thing, like, Can I just have, you know, that's, that's
really what I need any, I need an OAuth type experience for
connecting to this wallet. Well, and it of course, it does exist
with the full l&d node, even with a QR code. But we're
talking about a different solution. And I think we all
collectively agree that the best path for podcasters in general
is get n for for podcast listeners, I should say, is to
just get a
something that's custodial people who put a small amount of
money on it anyway, most likely.
And that's where the education process starts and a certain
point, I think you'll see podcasters who were saying,
well, this is interesting. No, but now I'm receiving you know,
20,000 SATs a day and I'm sweeping it out you know, I
probably should have a different solution. Boom for 17 bucks a
month you can have a fully noted solution from breeze and, and
voltage. So there's there's definitely a path but we need a
better path
to get people started. And right now the what Martin has done
with pod friend, I think is
by far the most elegant solution.
It's the closest. It's the closest thing to to an actual,
like, friction free very close to friction boy. Yes. Yeah,
there's still that. There's still that bit of friction, but
it's the closest one. Did you read? I'm sure. I know you did,
because I think you actually tweeted the link out. Roy's
description. Yes, I was just gonna say that fantastic. Yes.
Great article. And, and I think that that goes right back into
the discussion we had earlier about media title is yes, it's
time to short subscriptions and go long on lightning.
And then he does subhead subscriptions are obsolete and
unfair. Lightning is the solution. Yeah. Right on ROI,
right. The big guy, man, he's got mom's falling on his head.
He's over there. In Bryan of London territory. Yeah, bombs
fallen on his head. I'm just going to bang out a medium
article. Okay. He's no slouch as a writer. Boy, he dies after it.
He does. He does. The I think it's worth talking about that
for a second because subscription. You know, he goes
into a lot of detail and and it's uh, you know, you need to
read the article. But really
the, the just the, in my mind what I'm what I've been thinking
about, and it really did the am B's and all stuff brought this
up in the at&t stuff.
Is subscriptions are really,
they're not I agree with him, they're not sustainable, long
term. And at the end, the reason is because, like, Well,
you see, I want to explain this.
Looking at the podcasting subscription stuff that's coming
out right now with Apple and Spotify and that kind of thing,
there's a, there's a certain section of the, of the
population, that thing of the podcasting world that thinks
that's, you know, fantastic. But
what you get when you have a subscription based user base,
subscription user base, is you get sort of a
constant outflow and inflow people jump out and back into
the subscriptions all the time. Because the subscriptions don't
accurate can't, can never accurately reflect what they
actually you know, what the value that they're getting from
the product, because the VAT, the value of media is ever
changing on a on a daily basis, if not more granular than that.
So if I'm listening to, you know, I subscribe to a podcast,
and I'm listening to that podcast heavily for a couple of
weeks. And then, for a period of two or three weeks, I'm not
listening that much.
Or maybe a period of a couple of months. Or maybe I'm listening
to it and I keep getting interrupted or like what you
know, your value perceived value of that product is is in
constant flux. So what you need is a payment system that
reflects your moment by moment perceived value, yes. Rather
than aggregating it into a big chunk, and applying it to this
broader time period. And, and, and you have a true pricing
mechanism, which is based upon yourself. Yeah. I mean, yes, you
get you get more money from me,
as a as a booster than you do. As a subscriber. I cannot
promise you that. 100% Yep, yep, yep. Yep. My life is so busy on
a daily basis, that when I watch you, when I hit play on your
podcast,
that that is a big deal. For for not just me, for a lot of
people, your commit you use when you hit play, you've committed a
minimum of a half an hour that you're going to invest into,
into listening to that podcast. And if you if you care that
much, then you're willing to give that that creator money,
you're willing to give them money at that moment, at the
very moment, you're willing to give them a lot of money,
because you've decided that their product is that valuable
that you're going to spend your precious time listening to it.
But if you catch that listener, as some random day of the month
when they're not interested in what in your podcast, and you
say and you just show them the amount, okay, you're spending
$10
just doesn't, it's you
It's not the same. Well, not only that,
but it's a lot more fun. Certainly as we progress, and,
you know, I'm going to tell you, in fact, this is, I think it was
Darren O'Neil who posted? Well, you know,
it's Jerry Kay, I'm paraphrasing jury's still out on whether
people will adopt this method. Yeah, you know, what if you just
sit there and wait, no, but if you do the following Hey, do you
guys like this show? Do you like what we're doing here with
podcasting 2.0 boost us now boost hit the boost button
exercise your thumbs your lazy ass boost boost.
Guess was out it works. This is this is this is a fact it's
proven. You have to ask people to support you, you need to ask.
And it's beautiful. You'll see it in one, one minute or one
hour, 10 minutes. 57 seconds, we're gonna see a whole bunch of
boosts coming through on this show. What do you have to do
with a subscription model is you have to lower your price. You
have to get your price low enough to where people won't
bounce in and out of the subscription.
Hey, man, you know, here's here's what I'm seeing. Apples
whole modus operandi would be to promote some success story with
podcast subscriptions as they do with all their other products.
after launch. I have not seen it. I have not seen NPR saying
oh my god, we transition to subscriptions. It's crazy. It's
off the wall. Never again will never go back.
That maybe because half their shows disappeared at Apple.
And hello again to Stacey from NPR. We're so happy to have you
on. I love it. I love it when she's pushing stuff, man. Yeah,
he's a renegade. We got one on the inside Dave. Yeah,
nationally. I don't want to get boxed in. I'm making sure we're
compatible with your stuff. Yes. I'm saying I'm gonna send her
some some piping posting token to you. Oh, yes, that would be
fun. And could you imagine if the MP I mean, here's this very
simple. NPR could choose an app that they like.
And they could add it to the script. You know, the part where
it says, or wherever you get your podcast? Why don't you say
or try out pod friend. But try out breeze or try out pod verse
or try to try out the cast ematic
this new podcast app calm. Ask people to do that.
NPR is one of those deceptive companies where they look like
they're old and stuffy. But they actually have a lot of forward
thinking tech. And I bet I bet you that they? I bet you they're
very willing to jump on board with this. I get that feeling?
Well, it's a very subtle thing I'm asking for just in that
throwaway line, a throwaway line.
You get our podcast on Apple podcast, Spotify, wherever you
get your podcast, try out a new one a new podcast. app.com
not a commercial venture. It's not a commercial venture. It's
completely open source free value for value. We're just
trying to really secure everybody's future.
I'm gonna do some namespace talk real quick. Do I ever
bring it on? time? First time hot? Nah, you know, I like it
when we have a group namespace.
But I'd like it just with you a little better. Yeah, just mano a
mano feels feels less dirty. This is the sexiest podcast. Oh,
yeah. And the universe.
So we have it reminded me for some reason that popped into my
head. Right when you're talking about.
About that is the block tag.
Yes. The way Okay, so just a quick update the way it's
looking right now is we're going to have
alternate enclosure. This was going to be finalized on June
the first nice alternate enclosure, license. And
oh, gosh, I just had a brain freeze. What's the format? One
format? No, not format. That's super, super simple. Oh, trailer
trailer? Oh, yes. Yes. trailer trailer trailer licensed in
alternating pleasure. The the block tag has come back up is
sort of resurrected, because it will not because of but this
this app that that was just sort of discovered yesterday, I guess
the podcast clips app like, fun clip, yeah, pod clips, or
something like that. And they're like evidently, grabbing
people's content and re hosting it on their own servers. Yeah.
So there's this block, you know, the block tag, pod lunch.
clips, pod clips comm pod.
So the blog tag would allow people in their feed to specify
which aggregators they want. They do and do not want to be
able to index their content. And so you can say you block Spotify
blop, block Apple, blah, blah, blah. And then you're saying, or
block Google and you're saying, you know, I do not want my stuff
to show up in your in your directory.
And
this is, this is, this is good in one way. And I'm Will and
then I had this discussion with James cradling on the on the
mastodon like, Yes, I agree that it is that this, I agree. And I
want to do this, I want to put it in the namespace. This
namespace does not belong to Dave or the podcast index, it
belongs to the the the open source world isn't isn't it's an
open system. I am perfectly willing to go along with this.
I've got a just got a cup, a couple of reservations.
One is that you always open yourself up to shenanigans. And
I don't an hour, you know, I sort of planted my flag there.
And I was like, I will support and even champion this tag.
until the point when I see people, companies trying to use
it to gain leverage over other companies where they say, you
know, okay, well, anchor says all of a sudden, block everybody
but Spotify and apple. Mm hmm. Well, I mean, that's BS. Sorry.
Well,
you finished? I have some thoughts. Okay. I don't I think
that's, I think that is anti sort of anti competitive
behavior. I don't like that word, because it's got all the
monopoly governing Google goop all over. But to me, that is
just one away for one industry player to try to gain a
competitive advantage over another industry player, that's
not the creator choosing where they want to be listed company
interceding on their behalf. Okay. So I just got to interject
here. First of all, this has nothing to do with,
with podcast clips.
They're not re hosting RSS feeds, they are taking content,
taking images from people and, and clipping it and hosting from
their own servers. That is a content. copyright violation has
nothing to do with the feed. I mean, they may not be trolling
feeds at all, they may just be downloading stuff or whatever.
And if we'll just use the big boys, as an example, Spotify
took our feed the no agenda feed, put it in there, or
someone submitted it. I don't know how it got in. And they had
a process and I went, No, I don't want it and I was done.
And I think that's a fine process. I think that everyone
should be baking in bake a copyright notice of some form, I
do Creative Commons. And I've defended Creative Commons in
courts, I'm very comfortable with it. For people stealing my
content and using it commercially.
When it's documented as such, I think was the first court case
over Creative Commons content. That's where your, your content
disclaimer belongs. But it could even be on your on your show,
page website, etc. I'm totally with you. I think that these
tags are not necessarily creator generated. They are more
industry back end, most people don't deal with these at all.
And what did the scenario you are talking about, I guarantee
you will happen.
And I think we've had a total of maybe 10 or 15, people who did
not want their content on podcast index or their feed. And
we've and we've, of course, taken it off. And we'll have a
way for people to do that just like every other company does. I
don't see any reason for a tag at all. And and I and honestly,
I'm not sure why
James is pushing this so hard. I think it's coming from an honest
place. I think he I think he just really does want creators
to have, I think he wants to podcasters to have control of
where their stuff shows up. But one for one reason. One reason
is because it would make it simpler and not have to field
all these requests. Because, you know, a site like his
is sort of
indicative of a broader category of sites where you know, like in
our instance, we're going to end up having when Eric finishes his
work, we're going to end up having a way people can claim
Their feet and be listed listed. But a site like his or like it
was just a pod,
pod pages or some of these sort of like landing page sites, they
don't really they don't have the capacity to be able to allow
people to get in and somehow claim a feed and be listed. And
it's a big, it's a heavy lift for them. So it would be easier
if the,
if the person could if you could just respond to the person and
say, if you don't want to show up in ma cat in my catalog, just
put the blog tag in and list pod news. And you won't show up on
our side. And I can see that I'm 100% respect that. And, and I
don't mind, they're there again, I'm fine with the tag.
I'm fine with the tag being there. And if somebody, if
somebody puts it in, and they list podcast index, we don't
want to be listed in this Fine, I won't list them. I don't mind
that. But as soon as I see some shenanigans start, I'm ignoring
it.
That tag can exist and be respected as long as you're
respecting everybody else. But as you if you start trying to
and I'll take this is the other side of the coin that I was that
I was
thinking, well, there's two issues.
We seen that we see this with robots dot txt,
the robots file that controls who gets to index people's
websites
is a robust, it's very robust, you can easily tell what sites
you want to be able to index your content, like Google,
Yahoo, Bing, and DuckDuckGo.
What you see, though, is you see a lot of like WordPress plugins,
where the default out of the box robots file contains, block
everything but Google.
It See that's garbage to me. That's, I'm not like, if some
websites sets or if some plugin or some, you know, big hosting
company or something like that just automatically starts
putting in their feeds, by default, block everything but
apple and Spotify, then I'm ignoring that I'm gonna, I'm
just going to consider that block tag doesn't exist at that
point. I guess my problem, and I understand and I obviously,
what you're proposing is the right way to go.
The problem I have is, my feet has been sucked up by
Spotify by Google by Amazon. And not a word out of anybody how
evil that was not a word. Yeah, not a word. And I complained
about a bitterly I'm like, What do you guys do, and you can't
just do that.
But that's okay. And so now it's all these smaller guys who I
just don't want to give any.
I can see this playing out. And it's and Cridland pointed to a
good article. I mean, he he made it, he had a good pointer to an
article, which is another one of these Oh, my God, Google's
hosting white supremacist content for podcast.
Which again, and He even gave them a pass like, Well, you
know, that's just what Google does.
What this will be used for this block tag and you know, fine, we
can ignore it, I guarantee you, it's going to be used for
censorship, it's going to be used, right? So it's just an
open door.
The other way is to automate stuff that you know, because I
don't think anybody knows exactly what they don't want to
be listed on.
There's something that exists in the future. I don't know if I
want to be listed on that. I don't know. And there's, I mean,
there's tons of stuff. I mean, if anything, I'd like to stop
receiving emails from every Tom, Dick and Harry, who has a pod
something venture funded piece of shit. And oh, we've made we
built a page for you. Come look at our page. Hey, I'm following
up on the five emails that you've ignored. So I get this
all the time. And it's like, yeah, whatever, you know, you
have a page they're fine. You know, I
don't think it's worth fighting.
If someone is blatantly ripping off your stuff, and and podcast
clips is isn't a very clear example. And
the images, there's a whole bunch of stuff. I don't even
know why they don't know what they're trying to do over there.
It's just I don't know if it's to automate the idea of people
not showing up where they don't want to show up. It's like, you
don't know.
Yeah, it's like it. That's what that's why the robot, the robots
thing got broken. That's exactly why it happened. Because
everybody's like, I don't know what's about to try to index my
face.
And I'll get all I get all my ad word revenue from Google. So I'm
just gonna block everything from Google except Google.
And that's,
that's not the way this. I feel like there's some idealism that
needs to be broken here when it comes to the block tag. But, I
mean, do not track that header didn't work, for the same
reason, is because everybody, you know, as soon as you have
one big player this that ignores it, well, it's useless. I mean,
it's used. Okay, so let's say, let's say that we put the blog
tag in,
and a year from now,
us, and three other directories are the only ones that run to
that respected and Apple, Google and Spotify don't care less. I
mean,
that that's not going to solve anything. No, that's gonna do
all this going to do is punish us, that's not going to make,
you know, and make us have stuff that not have things that the
other directories have. And that puts our two apps that use us at
a disadvantage, or listening to let's say, listen, notes
respected. Well, then all of a sudden, they have a lot less
than then Apple podcast directory does. I mean, I just
don't I see. This is the I see, like, five ways this can go
wrong. And like one way can go, right? Yeah, well, the only
thing, the only thing I'd request and in general,
I'd like to have these conversations, these long
threads be moved to the GitHub, where the word belongs in a in
an issue about a tag. Cuz it just in
too many personalities. And people start getting each
other's face. And it's like, just move that over to the
GitHub, where we can have you know, there's a little more
structured conversation because you missed too much on mastodon
for these for these types of issues. My feeling, and I'm
guilty, I'm guilty of bringing that stuff into the mastodon
because it's so much faster. Well, I know it's like, the the
pod ping stuff, it was just you know, for for a week, it's just
all been a Brian likes to post. It just kind of, you know, it
just anyone who's not involved in it actively is kind of like
oh ho hum.
So that we just need to move some of that stuff over when
appropriate. But I mean, it doesn't mean it isn't exciting.
I'm just saying, like, this is a very specific issue. And it can
take a lot. It's also to me it is by far, by far.
One of the least important things in my life right now.
I seriously of all the things that are a problem with
podcasting, this is not the one this is not the hill I'm gonna
die on. So whatever, it's fine. There's many other important
things to do. Yeah, in pod and, and I don't think a blog tag
would have stopped pod clips, or whatever the name of that app
is. But also, this is me. This is me off is I want a value tag.
But no, now we're all gonna fight for a fucking block tag,
like we fought for the for the lock tag. Oh, everyone
implemented the lock tag, but we won't do any other tags. Well,
we got we got to give them some June 1, we'll give you a whole
whole new batch of tags. So I'm talking in general to you know,
we're coming up on a year and a lot of hosting companies have
not done anything. Yeah, True. True. But
well, as soon as, as soon as
well, with a few more apps, the more the more apps that begin to
support things, the more the host will be hosting companies
will be pressured to adopt more stuff. Yes. And if you're using
one of these apps from new podcast apps comm tweet about
it. Let people know what you think about it. I'm seeing this
happening. I just want to make sure we ask people to do that
you are part of a movement, a revolution, recapturing our
rightful our rightful place in the media landscape. As as the
as the Star Search is being built up around us and the man
is, is coming back from the dead to host a podcast.
That's right, Johnny.
How about we thank a few people. Oh, yeah, I did want to say last
last bit of nice bass stuff. Yes. Sorry. Baxter Tidwell. Dino
Baxter Tidwell.
I don't know.
He
created a formal
namespace schema, or DTD or whatever it is. Oh, those are.
Those are weird things. I've never understood how to really
do one. I've I've read this. I've read his document and I
still barely understand
it which is exactly which is why I'm thrilled that he did it.
He
He sent me an email. And it's he's evidently he was on the
sgml working group, the predecessor, you know, the
predecessor to XML. So he's he knows this. Now, yeah, he says
he posted this yet. Is there a link to it? It's up on namespace
now. Yeah, I posted a link to the mastodon a few hours ago.
And you can go and click on there. And he's got a very well
done, write up and document about exactly how it works and
what he did, and how to use it within Visual Studio code.
The cool thing about it is as you're writing your tags will
error check you against the namespace to make sure that
you've put all the attributes and stuff in correctly. very
slick. Wow, this is a lot of work. You Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's
been a lot of time on this. Wow. That's some real time and
talent, man, thank you so much. Yeah, that I just want to make
sure that I thanked him. Yes. For that, because that was very
valuable. I've been wanting that for a while. And every time I
start to look at it and like, your eyes, your eyes glaze over.
Yeah. He's like, and he's like, I'll do it. Yes, thank you, man.
This is this is hot. And this is a it's a value for value
project. Everything we're doing here is to move it forward.
And everyone's putting in their time, their talent.
People putting in treasure, we're putting in a lot of all of
that.
And that keeps us honest, keeps us open. This podcast is a part
of it. Which is as far as I know, the only board meeting
that is a podcast where everybody is invited, everyone
gets a shake at the stick.
And let's thank some of our financial supporters who believe
in what we're doing and want to move everything forward and came
in with their treasure. Yeah, right off the bat. If you
donated enough to get a T shirt. Please send. I've got a nice
I've got a nice strategy here because I'm not able to keep up
with how that XML spreadsheet work out. I mean, yeah, we're
not XLS spreadsheet. I don't want to talk about it.
Please, if if you don't earn enough to get to your place and
your your shirt size and your address that we need to ship it
to you to shirts at podcast index.org Holy crap, someone had
to think about that one. I did. I thought about it for at least
45 sec. Now tell us about these handsome podcasting 2.0
certified shirts. Dave What? What did it look like? Tell us
tell us about them. Oh, they're beautiful. They have a
podcasting podcasting 2.0 certified pill badge on them
that the wonderful Benjamin Bellamy wrote up designed for us
as a vector piece of vector art. Oh, perfect. I think they're
gonna be like a dark gray color the T shirts. So you can your
whole body not just your podcast, but your whole body can
be podcasting certified now. Where it were loud and proud.
Everybody put it on your wife, your girlfriend, your boyfriend,
your dog.
Yeah. Anyway, it says
that, yeah, a total of $100 donations you've deserved you
deserve that T shirt shirts at podcast index.org.
And I guess we'll be given a couple of those away today,
then. Yeah. Oh, for sure. So, Marco arment from overcast came
in again with $500. Marco, thank you so much. It is it is a
delight to have you in the group. And when we're glad that.
You know, this is a very, very nice collaboration. And I know
that he's working on chapters. I saw him posting about that. It's
very excited about that. Yes.
I'll, I'll make sure that they listen to the show. So I'll make
sure he knows about the T shirt. Oh, man, we all listened to his
show.
Y'all send us t shirts. We'll send you
Thank you, Marco. Yeah. Thanks for that. Appreciate it. That
that seriously? covers our hosting phase for the entire
month. That does such. Yeah.
Let's see. Steve. Steven crater. Yes. came in with $100. Steven,
thank you, Steven.
Creates websites on the fly filled with beautiful data.
Yeah, in like, five minutes. You're like, Hey, you know, I
need one of these in the craters there like like this. Yeah.
Like when I when I said I think it was on the last show was
like, we really need a page where it lists all the value for
value enabled podcasts in literally I mean, it's like, you
know, four hours later, he's like, Hey, I got you one pull
request. Oh, God, man. Seriously.
Yeah, Stephen sent us 100 bucks. And he said I've been I've
enjoyed being a member of the podcast index community and
appreciate the opportunity to contribute how I can
Stephen needed you didn't have to do that and you will
definitely be getting a T shirt.
Thank you, brother. Thank you so much.
See
Olmstead media sent us $100
a day from Deutschland I don't know it's a tom Thomas.
And he just says certify me.
So first you have to defragment
can't just be certified you got to defragment your first I guess
is that a Dutch name on start now how do you spell UM, sta Dt
d. d? And is media Homestuck media is m dot media and Thomas.
Let me say Thomas, I see him
start game now. Here's that German.
Thomas is a speaker a podcaster and a CEO.
A looks like he's from Texas. What the hell
to say, Well, you know, we got hit Fe, we know we have a very
long, rich history of German history. He lives in Austin with
his beautiful wife and children. Okay, I'll show you some
pictures. He can carry a T shirt over to his house. I just might
have to do that. Thanks, man. That's a big he's a long I bet
you he's a longtime Texan. I bet he's been here since the 1800s
or not him but his family. We have a lot we have a lot of
German
heritage in North Alabama, because that's where Redstone
Arsenal and the Huntsville Space and Rocket Center was you know
there's a lot of NASA government stuff up in North Alabama in
Huntsville area. But those are still the Operation Paperclip
Germans totally
Nazi offspring.
If you get there's a graveyard that you can go up there up
there and it's like, filled with like, Iron Cross headstones.
Really, total German nuts. Operation Paperclip interest.
Ah.
Thank you, Thomas. Appreciate that. Yeah, thanks, man. And
yeah, let's let's have a beer.
Dame Jennifer Buchanan. $33.33. Damn, Jennifer, it's you do not
need to do that you do so much already. She says in the
morning, y'all. If Adam can throw in a penny, this plus my
last 233 33 donations entitles me to one of those fancy new t
shirts. You got it? Thanks to all who are working to keep
podcasting hot kisses and hugs.
Thank you. Damn, Jennifer. Yes. On the way to you for sure.
Were loud and proud. Let's see.
Is there a note with this one do not see a note for Ronald keys
that he gave us. $25. Thank you, Ron.
Thanks, man. Every single penny makes a difference. And let's
see here. Mark King gave us $10. And he says thanks show.
me. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for that. Another Texan.
Maybe? I wasn't I don't know, y'all.
See? Oh, Andy layman. Andy gave us $5 and he says, Dave and
Adam, thanks for all you do keep up the good work. It has allowed
us at the dudes and dads podcast to do some cool things in our
feed. allowed me Andy layman of layman creations to develop some
cool crap.
Crap, Andy. No, it's not baby. It's art. Alright, it is. And we
have a new subscription monthly subscription from David would
find $3 I do not see a note from David's We appreciate it. Thank
David. Matthew. Thank you. Thanks, everybody who supports
the podcast index podcasting. 2.0 with your time, your talent,
your treasure. to support us, you can go to podcast index.org
we got a big Donate button there. It still connects to
paypal. And the site revamp is coming. So we'll still welcome
your cookbooks through that system. And of course, you can
always boost this show and crank up the value sliders and just
help us with some true value for value. The moment you're getting
it. You're spitting it right back. I see you Martin Martin.
Mark loves to boost us when he's listening. I think he likes his
fiance out like now is the show is coming up. And I have to make
sure it's the everything's the ping the pod ping has been
pinged appropriately before before I tweet or tooted because
he gets angry if it doesn't work on his app. Oh, he's very bad.
Can I do I still just use those scripts that you gave me. Yeah,
that goes straight that go straight to us. I think
The delay was there. The net monthly donations I forgot to
read. Oh, yes, please. Hello, sorry about that. Keith Gibson.
These are subscriptions that hit this week Keith Gibson gave us
$50
Enigma Enigma labs. $20 Dwayne Goldie the second $8 Charles
current $5 and Thomas Sullivan, Jr. $5. Thank you. Thank you all
very much Enigma labs, what the hell is an enigma labs? I don't
know. It sounds military, developing the future. I like it
though. I like I like, you know, in the labs.
ending my labs was created with an intention of establishing an
environment where physicians feel they are in control. This
means
I have a feeling it may be a different Enigma labs. Not just
a hunch. Do I so I love pharma money.
I love pharmaceutical money.
Yeah, maybe we're getting some of that for us some of that
sweet sweet pharma. pharma cash. Yeah.
I'd rather take a boost some I'd rather I don't want to Fauci
booster. I don't want your boost on podcasting. 2.0 is the only
give me that?
This this is no, this is funny to the
E.
Play. This was the they had that discussion.
Todd and Rob had that discussion about the ad advertising. And
then sort of at the end of the at the segment, they said do
this is where they sort of he wrapped it up DVD advertising
three, and they don't run for very long.
Yeah, the pills don't work for very long either. I'm told so
yeah.
Name. Yeah.
That's That's all I got. Yeah, brother, I think. Do we have any
guests scheduled for the next couple of weeks? What do we
have? Not scheduled. schedule so many guests that I just gave us
a breather? Yeah, that's good. I as I said, I'd like just doing
the two of us for a bit too. It's also nice. Yeah. Yeah, I
like that, too. I think we've got some people we need to get
on the show, though.
You know, and I'm going to try to get back and get some guests
here soon. But I figured we could get like a guest. After we
get back from the conference. Yes. I'm very excited to be fun
to I mean, I've met you obviously, I've met Eric but you
guys have never met in person. Now that'll be fun. We have a
lot of where we are very popular. Got a lot of invites. A
lot of people want to be on our dance card. Alright, so just
preparing you. It's gonna be the Airbnb from hell, baby.
The podcast index Airbnb.
There's another isokon here that I don't know what it is. I'm
gonna listen. Do you see that one? Huh? Oh, I'm gonna listen.
That's Hillary. I don't know.
I've been hauling around for a few weeks.
Anything else? Yeah, I think No, that's it, man. It's been I
know, you've been real busy with with family stuff and work
stuff. And I'm in the middle of
selling a house moving, you know, buying a new house. How's
it going? Okay. Actually, we we have contracts both ways. So now
it's nice. Yeah. Now it's the data we need. We need
everything. You've got your statement from April, though.
Why did this deposit come from?
Cuz now it's at the underwriter and they're like, Hey, wait a
minute. You just Are you borrowing money from someone
else to make it look good?
Somehow you can have like a $25 billion back that comes out of
nowhere. You can't have a single deposit on your account in the
last three months to buy a house that does that work. It's so
true. It's and you know, and ever since Tina and I got
together six years ago, we just had our second wedding
anniversary.
Congrats. Thank you. She's She's really taken over a number of
things. She's she Marie Kondo me. So now yeah. Oh, yeah. So
everything's, we've got everything down to the tee every
single thing you know. And messy guy though. Is spotless. No, I
have hellholes.
Right.
When they're there, they're restricted to one little spot.
Well, no, they're little ones all over the place. When when
Tina and I moved in together and then I moved out of my my
apartment and we moved into the apartment downtown together.
And, you know, she found or we found plastic bags are like big,
like shopping bags filled with unopened envelopes, of bills and
all kinds of books and because, you know, I was like, I'll get
This is how I was I was like, fuck it all paid in two weeks
and I was like little guy pay right away this asshole pay and
you know big guy now pay later. And of course then the reminder
comes in I pay that and I just tossed the envelope beside and
so she was like, Oh my god, are these all unpaid bills?
No, no, this is just how I've been living anyway, so she she
took over everything we got. And yet still they have things like,
oh, now we need this and you know and lift your left nut and
anyways, everyone knows what that's like. It's just It's a
crazy right now because everyone is busy. Yeah, title companies
and it's just crazy. It's
in the meantime, you know.
We forge forward. It's one of the most exciting things I've
ever been involved in. I'm so blessed to be working with you
with Eric with everybody at podcast index. I'm sure you feel
the same. It's it is just it is. It is a labor of love. But we do
have we do have a strategy
in there somewhere. Yeah, if we keep at it if we keep at it, and
I think everything will be okay. So remind everybody there's some
cool new apps new podcast apps, calm. Everyone should be trying
those out. podcasters hear me now believe me, Nader you will
leave.
And we'll be back next Friday with another edition of
podcasting 2.0 the board meeting. Till then take care.
Bye bye.
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