podcasting 2.04 main 2018 2021 Episode 39 licensed to kill. I
love my Fridays. I'm sure all of you knew that just because it's
Friday and we got the weekend coming up but it is time once
again for the weekly board meeting of podcasting. 2.0
everything going on in podcast index.org and the mastodon
podcast index doc social. Hello, everybody. I'm Adam Curry here
in Austin, Texas and in Alabama, the man who closes GitHub issues
faster than any human being my friend on the other end. Game
Jones.
Hey, yo, dawg.
The weirdest week Really? can ever imagine. Like, I'm serious.
I'm serious. This is a this is one for the record books.
Well, what happens? I didn't see anything special. Well, I kept
it to myself. I kept it mostly to myself. Okay. Well, thanks
for sharing in advance. Yeah, sure. Well, on a say I started
sheet rocking this room.
Oh, here we go. Here we go. Yes. I have noticed on a couple of
calls. I saw some of the sheet rocking it's, it's it is.
Yes, we let me set the stage here. We live in a house that
was built in 1892. So it's an old one. It's got all the
typical stuff you could you could imagine from a house that
old and it was sort of taken care of before we got it like
just sort of carried forward a little bit. So we get we get in
here. There was lots of stuff wrong with it. We had to just
start doing lots of renovation. The what we've been doing is
going room by room and just sort of going you know, got a room.
Put it back together all that kind of stuff. Oh boy. Yeah. So
the hallway where I podcast from is the current project and has
been we started it like right around the time Coronavirus,
hit, which completely threw everything off schedule. And
started podcasting. People know which theory of things screwed
your life up. Yeah. So like I've been podcasting from this. You
know, like horror show looking? How hallway that looks like a
dungeon for you know about me at the beginning? Well, so I
started sheet rocking it on Sunday, and making some
progress. Well, then, we started smelling something. like the
smell it smelled like a dead animal. Oh, in the wall. Yeah.
And I couldn't find it. And so we could, like it kept getting a
little bit stronger, a little bit stronger. And we were like,
there's gotta be a dead animal around here somewhere. We spent
I spent, like, two hours trying to find this Monday night. Well,
my daughter, she's like, Hey, don't you have an infrared
camera? Like the little you can like plug it like a FLIR and you
can plug it into your is a module you plug into the
lightning port on your iPhone. And it'll it'll Yeah, it's
really cool. I mean, it was not for your for your Proctor ology
home exam. It's where it's a moonlight as a former CIA agent.
Okay. So that is my night vision. So she was like, you
know, that's a great idea. I got it originally to find insulation
problems in our house. Because this house has like, no
insulation. Yeah. And so I bought this thing. And I forgot
i'd heading and I was like, that's a fantastic idea. So I go
get it, and start looking at the walls to see if there's any sort
of heat signature or something in the wall of a dead end like
CSI Dave's house. Yeah, exactly. Enhance. dum dum. So, I aimed at
the signaling in our master bedroom. And it's not a mouse.
It's much bigger. Oh my god. Yeah. And so I'm like, Oh my
god, Melissa, that may be like a red hat. Oh. And so then, by
Tuesday, it was like raking in, I said, I'm gonna have to get,
I'm gonna have to take off work. So I took the day off Wednesday.
So like, Tuesday at lunch when we were doing that lightning
round table, and I was on the zoom meeting. That's why I was
very quiet. It was I was I was. I was hunting through the house
trying to find this animal. Well, then, Wednesday, I was
again on the second lightning round table. And I was all I was
listening to the roundtable session up on top of a ladder,
cutting a hole in our ceiling with this also and trying not to
have a dead animal fall out of it on top of men.
What did it turn out to be? It was a possum. Oh. Boost. You
want to that's right time to boost story like that deserves a
boost. Jennifer it's good to hear that want to get away here
completely cleansed so good. Here's your cue to boost you
know you want to do now. Okay, do you want to see it? Do you
want to see what came out of my ceiling? Oh, is that the picture
that you said do not open which I did not do I'm very good at
things. Okay if you if you're if you dare open it.
I'm gonna put it in the show notes. Oh, okay. Double click
right.
Yes. Okay.
How big is this thing? Oh, you can see this picture.
Oh, here we go. Oh.
Oh, man. Ah, it's completely deteriorated. Oh,
if you ever see it, you know, it was basically like a john
Carpenter movie. I mean, it was this. It was like a blob of goo
with a skeleton of a possum floating in the middle of it was
the worst thing that I've ever experienced.
I bet you just retching over that. Oh my god. It was awful.
So smell I can smell it just looking at I'm closing this out.
She meant for Dred Scott. Please do not put that as chapter rep
Scott. I will never have any putting it into the show notes
as we speak. So you do whatever you want.
That that thing came out of my bedroom ceiling. And so we've
had a crap man we've had a fan running in our window I guess.
Clean and stuff and get all I had to cut out like three feet
of our ceiling. Just to get the all the goo out. Delos off. I
just want to reiterate dread definitely put this into chapter
art man. You have to come on. That's what that that's what we
built this shit for man. Come on. This is great. That's
finally finally a use case for chapter art. This is the worst
use case. Yeah. Oh, that's so nasty. See? Gosh.
All right. So that's, that's that's the story. And like, as
the whole time? What was so it was almost What do you call it
like a like this? It was like a trippy experience. Because I'm
up on the ladder. And we have hot, we have tall ceilings like
they're 11 and a half feet. So up on top of the ceiling, with
the saws all cutting out the seat, cutting it out and trying
to make sure that bits of animal goo fall into the trash bag and
not on me. Yeah. And the whole time. I've got like Ben Shapiro
on on crack on the lightning round table. All right, trying
to understand what he say and what we'll get into this. But we
just need to mention that he already mentioned to twice there
was a lightning labs Roundtable, two of them one where they
presented the roadmap. And they brought in developers people
with projects, and probably about 80 people on on the zoom
call. And then they had different breakout groups. And
so I think there were 20 or 3035 or so in the group that we were
in which I'm not sure exactly what it was, what the
qualifications were, but Roy was in there from breeze and a
number of other people. And in both cases, the CTO of lightning
labs, whose handle on GitHub is roast beef, blue Lau, and I'm
not sure where he's from music from Nigeria. I got no idea.
It's gonna I'm gonna embarrass myself. But anyways,
it doesn't clearly the smartest person that's ever existed in
the history of humanity.
Well, and that's, that that's just it. It's, it's really
interesting, because he talks so fast. In fact, on the first day,
I mean, I had never heard the guy speak and he starts and then
just the whole zoom erupts with people going Yo, yo, slow down.
And then and then the lightning labs exact comes on says, oh,
pro tip, everybody turn on your captions. And the captions were
at least 30 seconds behind. And it's really funny because I got
a lot of B star star star star like, you know, clearly
understood bitch, but it was but it wasn't he never said that. So
and I'm really I've lived around the world and I can I can
understand people speak English with all kinds of accents. I'm
really good at it. This was hard. This was really really
hard. And to be fair, I didn't like it. It kind of it's like
dude Because the IRS I think the response is exactly what you
gave. He must be the smartest person in the world. I think if
he slowed down a hair, I'd still think he was the smartest guy in
the world. He's very young. Yeah, he's in his mid 20s or
something. He's extremely young.
I kept trying to explain to my wife how fast this guy talks. I
didn't know that you could actually do that, you
know, walked in on day two, because I told her, but then on
day one, I'm like, Yeah, what the hell dude? Is there a
recording available? We got to play this, no one will believe
it. I know it was recorded. No one will believe it. No one will
believe that there's any human being who speaks this fast.
And she kept thinking I was exaggerating. And I finally
showed her a YouTube video of an old thing where he was like a
guest on something. And her mouth fell open. She was like,
whoa. That was like, it's like being at a cattle auction. Like
they believed everybody rapinoe that. You know that super fast
talk. Oh, my God. That thing? Oh, sec. Yeah, go ahead. He's,
he's clearly I mean, he's clearly like, smarter than fit,
you know, then 75 people I know put together wrapped up into one
human being well, so here we go. I was like, Well,
here we go. Hold on. I got I got an old video yet. Yeah. Good old
older video. Let's see what this is. I get him on traditional
tools, writing ecosystem, back and forth a lot easier now to
like, make it easier. What's going on? That's really
necessarily recording Hold on. No, yeah, that's terrible.
recording. Yeah, that. Oh, this is him just talking to someone
else. That should be interesting.
We said we're going to do this thing. And you can't. Exactly
Yes. I mean, that's that's markup I, you know, you can't
like compel someone to do something. Otherwise, you're
actually written in the chain itself. This is actually quite
slow.
You know, in order to, like, get onto like the basics of layer
two, you basically have one block in production right. Now,
the thing is that, like, you know, you don't necessarily need
to ever go back, right, because I've had channels open for the
past, but it's
not so bad. Actually. It's really tame. It's when he is
when he's presenting. When it just goes off the rails. Yeah,
this is just a speeded up, speeded up to like one point.
Yeah, yeah. Anyway. And you're in the ballpark? Yeah, it was
really bizarre. And but I don't think that's good. Personally, I
just don't, he clearly has the ability to speak slower, because
we just heard it. That's reasonable. Let's, anyway, I
don't want to bitch and moan about it. I was quite happy that
they invited us. And I learned a lot, actually, a lot. I did a I
did a podcast girl. I learned a lot. So. So I, we were, you
know, able to ask questions. And the first thing I said, well not
necessarily quite introduced myself, because they definitely
know who we are. They know what street is all a lot of streaming
SATs, and Adam Curry's crew. A lot of that going on.
But
I said, Look, I just want to point some things out about the
network that we're seeing. It really sucks from I didn't say
sucks. But it's it's very difficult for microtransactions,
because of if you have all this great conductivity, and you've
got big channels open to all the big boys, you're paying real
fees. And even if they're smaller players, if the fees are
too high for for, you know, a one set transaction. And the
answer that he basically gave was, well, don't worry about it,
people will spend more like, okay, so he doesn't. And I don't
know if he exactly knows how micro transactions are very
micro, the micro is of micro. But I heard from a couple other
participants who knew because I said, All right, well, we'll
just continue to build our own little connections. And we'll
try and keep our own fees low and connect directly to each
other. And I heard from a number of participants, they said that
was actually that, you know, this is that's the way to go.
That's a smart thing to do to build a zero fee network, if you
can. Yes. And then I, I was allowed to ask the stupid
question, which no one could answer was, how do we get a
connect to wallet. And, of course, a lot of people roll
their eyes, but what came out of it was something extremely
useful for us. And that is web ln. And now web ln is I'd say
it's kind of a hobby project. It's it's not really being
maintained. But it's also going to get rolled up into into lnd
as they're moving towards controlling lnd through the web.
And so there's a number of things that do that. Now, Joule
is one Jao ueli and that's a Chrome extension. And I think
lnd will basically come out with their own version of that or
whatever and so but you still have to have a node to connect
to to do that. Then as I'm kind of and you know, and is no key
set until the A web ln works is you have a call to if you have a
web ln compatible browser, which, you know, either baked
into the browser or an extension, it knows to, if you
click on a button, let's say boost button, it's an API call
to a web ln back end, which sits on the node. And then it
executes a payment. And it's incredibly powerful. Because
imagine, if you just if your web browser and this is kind of what
brave wanted to do, but if if your web browser had this built
in and your web browser or any web browser you use is connected
to a node somewhere, then you know, anyone can basically ask
for payments, they don't need any anything, anything in the
middle, you know, you can just say, hey, you want to you want
to see this link. up pops a dialog that's all native to the
web and in the browser. So anyone with HTML skills can
basically create something to to get paid. The problem is having
that node off site. And so I was hunting around and I noticed
that the blue wallet has an A web lm browser. And it has a
little example there. Yeah, you got to find that under
marketplace. And yeah, and I learned that that's how all
these marketplace apps really work. Or it's called the LA app
app, la PP browser, the lightning app browser has a
little example page, you can create an invoice that says,
hey, you gotta pay this. It can be targeted amount or range. And
lo and behold, you create that page click, you pay it, and you
basically just paid yourself through the blue wallet. And I'm
looking at this, I'm going well, wait a minute. Here, we have so
many great web apps, what if we just pull the web apps in? And
then make the payments that way? So instead of connecting to
wallet, it's kind of like an iPhone case that goes around the
web app. That makes sense, like a clear plastic wrapper that
really is just obfuscated from from the experience, because
it's a browser. So you open an app, it's really just a browser
page and a wallet. Right? So you have an instant payment
solution. If you add in the key send part. Does that make sense?
Yeah, see me play it back to you. So the web lm port being a
browser function, you would get that you're thinking that you
may get that for free. If it's a if it's a native, or excuse me,
if it's a web app, or possibly a progressive web app?
Yes, either one will do. But we're just a web page. I mean,
just a web page. Let's just say I just wanted to have a simple
boost functionality. So the this web browser that I'm using that
happens to have a wallet tied into it that speaks web ln, it
brings up a page, that pod friend, and I want to hit boost,
and I hit the boost. And pod friend makes a call a local call
to the app that it's that it's running in, you know, there's a
little web server I guess, and the API and it says pay this to
this address, and boom, it'll be done. So So then, in principle,
you could load up any app in that browser. Any web app, any
podcast app that that's a web app or progressive web app. And
you can have the logic for the for the per minute satoshis, the
streaming SATs run as well. without a problem, and
everybody wins. And this is and this is going to be part of like
l&d is going to bake this in somehow. It's like a, it's like
a sort of like fourth API interface. Well, so because they
get g RPC and have rest. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, they're
definitely going to build this in and I'm sure it will, you
know, so as key sin is deprecated. Over time, excuse
me, we get an for the static invoices, which is basically the
same. I don't think they'll know what the call may look a little
different, but I don't think it's going to change that much.
So these web hooks will just be built in, that'll be built into
l&d. Then the true magic though, which I heard outside of this
meeting is where it's really going. And that's webassembly.
And webassembly is a project that allows you to run a virtual
machine in a browser and there's an active an active project. The
public face of that is simple coin, simple coin, calm that
just email registration, but there's a GitHub and I'll put it
in a GitHub with a medium article really I'll put it in
the show notes and they are baking an entire neutrino node
into webassembly. Now there's
less unless that one seems less promising to me just because you
have, like webassembly itself was just a way to compete as a
way to compile JavaScript into native code, right? And so like,
Oh, I don't, I can, there's definitely advantages or speed
advantages. There's, you know, all kinds of things that go with
that. But the, the putting the node into the browser, you, you
always have this problem of when you, you just lose everything,
you lose all state when you close it, right? I don't know.
Like, it just seems so if the browser if the browser closes in
any way, or the service worker or anything that's feeding it,
like it just seems like it's like you're just toast. It's
just like, ah, rip the rip power cord out of your raspy Blitz or
something.
Um, so that's a lot of what they're working on. And neutrino
is a big part of that. Okay. You know, because of course, you're
not going to have, you know, what is it? How many? What, 600
gigabytes of chain data store stored in your browser? I'm not
sure. I'm just thinking now that you. I mean, the reason why NF
T's have taken off so big is because of meta mask. The meta
mask is just a browser extension, boom, you can receive
aetherium. And you can now there's a whole different thing
going on with the lightning network because of the graph and
the updating of the channels and all this stuff has to happen.
But I think in practice, it probably would work very similar
to what what breeze does, you know, breeze goes into the
background, it can't do anything, it can't send the F
once you bring into the foreground, then it can do
stuff. Right. So anyway, this may all be which which has some
issues, sometimes totally. Yeah, I mean, all of this shit has
issues. And even as I said in the meeting has had, luckily,
podcast listeners are so delighted by what we're doing
that they're happy to just, you know, pay three sets in fees to
get one set to the podcaster. I said, that's, that's the
beautiful, beautiful thing about it. And I hope they take it. And
I think they take us very seriously. And certainly people
in the meeting do. But as I said, this web ln in general, I
think is phenomenal. That should just be your browser. It should
just be your browser. I'm going to get an app and what am I I'm
getting the lightning, wallet browser. And it works just like
a browser does everything. But when you hit something where
someone has a web ln piece in there, boom, you can pay for it.
That's frictionless man. That's the friction part that you know,
it's better than scanning a QR code, which is hard to do on the
same device.
No, and then you have you don't even really need to connect a
wallet at that point. Because it's sort of hard. You
know, it's your you are connected. Exactly. Now, like
they can't, can you? Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Please, please
finish that train. Well, I was gonna say like, the one thing
that I was not following clearly on was there. He was talking
about, he was at Roy Roy was talking about neutrino. The
Nimroz beef was talking about this ability to have a and I
think this was on Tuesday, talking about the ability that
they're going to try to, they're putting in some functionality to
l&d where you will be able to, to open a channel and get up and
running with no owns on chain transaction.
Yeah, that's the sidecar channels. That's sidecar. Okay,
that's right, that that's something different. I mean, you
still need a node for that. It's what that is, is a way to say
okay, hey, I want to get started with podcasting. And we'd say,
cool, get a node and and we'll open up five channels and really
those channels are we already have them. We're just leasing
them. It's a business thing that we could also give them away we
could do it for free. I mean, but it's it's a way that let's
call it the Deep Freeze channel. So you have a channel already
established, good to go fully funded, all that shit is done.
And you know what you need liquidity instead of this open a
channel to me Okay, opening a channel, hey, I can't find you
on one ml, all this crap. Instead of that. It's just boom,
there's your channel. You're done.
We you've been doing a bunch of channel management try like
stuff on our node to do you want to talk about what you did?
Because you I mean, you've been trying to figure out how best to
rearrange our channels where We have I think you said we have
fewer but bigger channels and some things. I'm still waiting
for Eric to transfer the Bitcoin so I can open up some bigger
channels and close some smaller ones. But he may be busy. I
don't know, it took a while to clear and all we had Well, yeah.
Then your financial institutions? Yeah, there's all
kinds of KYC AML. Yeah. But in general, you're trying to get to
get a, you're following through on that vision to have a sort
of, like, minimal fee or as close to no fee network as Yes,
yes, so, so exactly that. Now, the trick is, is to have the
right channels open to the right nodes who are really doing this
type of traffic with us. Because if you show up as a, as a well
funded, and we're not, I mean, we are way underfunded to show
up on any list, you know, although we have all the right
channels, and we have decent balance in the incoming
outcoming. For what we're doing. We're seeing as you know, a
pimple out there and lightning land, don't even show up on the
on the cool analysis tools, which I also bitched about. But
because then, you know, if you, if we don't do it private, which
I don't want to do, then you know, we'll be seen as, Oh,
there's a cheap route. And then you know, people can be pushing
through all this liquidity through two hops in our network,
and it can, you know, can deplete channels and do all
kinds of stuff. So, we may have to go private, but for now, so
as an example, we have ln Pei is really the only channel to
breathe, that brings into our ecosystem that is affordable.
All the other routes are through these big players and multiple
hops, who you know, who you can't even open a channel to,
because they demand so much minimum liquidity. And then you
know, then there's five, five sets, five hops or whatever in
between a three set payment. So that's why breeze has to stack
them up for so long. And it's kind of annoying to Ellen pay
has, has a channel and then we have a channel to Ellen pay. And
that one is very active, because it's shuttling basically breeze
payments through. And we pass many of those on to Sphinx chat,
as does Ellen pay, it all depends just you know what's
going on. And so that channel is just small. So I wind up,
looping it out, and looping it back in and just move the
liquidity from one side to the other. It's a lot of fun. And I
really enjoyed doing it. I'm learning a lot. So I don't
really have much, much else in the way of an update there. That
we're working on opening a channel directly to breeze,
right? Yes, yeah. And it's just they have a 10 million set
minimum. But I think that'll that'll really help out a lot.
Also, with him just being able to send SATs into our ecosystem,
you know, so we can, we can pass it on to Satoshi streams with no
fee, you know, run. So we don't need to make money. In fact, our
routing is down in general, not quite sure why.
But we've been saying that since day one, basically, that you
know, this is we're gonna try to, we don't need the fees, no
fees. No, we're just wanting to pass traffic.
Yeah, I think network fees are appropriate and great. But and
we may have to look at private channels so that we don't get
swamped with with people looking for a cheap route. Yeah, it is
possible to do but anyway, this, this idea of a web browser that
just has a wallet, oh my god, what I love that. And so in in
blue wallet, it has a web browser, it's just you have to
dig into find out where it is that hold that app is quite
extensive multi SIG wallets has got all kinds of stuff going on.
Then I did hear that that might not ever happen on iOS. As they
read as you know, you can't have dynamic pages and all this other
crap, probably the same stuff Martin's running into, they're
really clamping down on on you being able to you having an app
that can access content that is undetermined at time of
submission to the App Store. I think that's kind of how it
looks to a browser. We even had that with mastodon apps.
Yeah, I find that to be a little bit of BS, because that, you
know, you can claim that that security in the same way that
they claimed that will 30% from the App Store is also because
we're, you know, we're keeping everything keeping you safe,
keeping you safe from the scary web where you put your credit
card into things and have to, you know, pay for things and
download them. Yeah, and that's just to me, that's a little bit
of smoke and mirrors. Because progressive web apps, the real
threat to the iOS App Store, from progressive web apps is
just the lack of the 30% cut. And we know that you can't When
you have a progressive web app, there's no, there's no, they
can't wedge themselves in into the middle of that. And I think
that's, you know, we saw this week, I think Cridland mentioned
that the revenue from the App Store is now bigger and bigger
than the whole of the music industry. Oh, sure. No sure is
this serious, serious money, and they're not going to let that
go. In a progressive web app is a direct threat. I mean, like,
you can't get more direct than that.
Right. So well, you know, this is a court and not to delve into
too long with this. You know, there's this court case going on
now. And there's testimony about the value of the App Store. And
the one thing that stuck out for me was a look at Apple, here's
how we look at things. You want a Mac, you want to live a little
dangerously, you want to possibly get infected, you want
to install your own shit, you want to run it yourself, here's
a Mac over an iOS land, we protect you. And that's fair.
And that's that, but I don't think that I don't think it is
fair. I think that's bullcrap. Look at all the scammy apps that
are on the App Store. I'm not saying that they're successful.
That they're hypocrites, of course. But you know what? I
like, I could figure out a graph EOS, I can buy a different phone
people either will will stand for this shit. And if they want
to be so called Safe and locked in and, and still and super
tracked fine. I have no time to stand around. Which brings me to
the next piece I'm annoyed about, Oh, please, license block
moderate, I'm tired of this conversation. And great
appearance on pod land. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it very,
very much. But it did bring up some questions. And you know,
because I think it was James Cridland from pod news. Boost
who started a week or so ago about we need the blood tank,
the block tag and and we need license tag and like what is
going on. Because the thing is, I've been through this movie
before this, we went through all of this 15 years ago, where
you're you're using my content, my feed on your site, that's
stealing, you're hijacking my feed. Now when it comes, we
already discussed this in the last show someone taking audio,
taking clips out of it hosting on their own servers, those are
pretty clear. But this is about the and this is maybe my problem
with this topic. It's being conflated these three things.
It's license in the feed. It's a block tag in the feed. And
somehow moderation has to do with this. And I'm not quite
sure if it's all about moderation. Or if it's really
all about monetization, or if it's both. So what I'm seeing is
James Cridland saying, as a creator, you should have the
right to determine where your content goes. And I want to just
stop right there on the internet. When it comes to a
feed, that's the link. It's not your content. That's a link. Are
we going to go through that whole argument again, of
creating laws against deep linking? We did this already.
Without a link, you don't have an internet. So it's
preposterous to say I have a I have content over here and you
can't link to it. Well, you're you're a website that surfaces
the content or you're an aggregator or you're an index or
you're a voting site or something else. I should have
the right now, do we not want to ban blogs from having links to I
don't understand where this thinking comes from other than
I'm getting screwed. I want to monetize and I don't want anyone
else to monetize off of the back off of my back. And so that goes
right into Well, here's this show that's being stolen. Well,
making my point for me, we came up with a lock tag. So that that
would at least be something that we could point to this is not
supposed to be imported. We built it for anchor. The whole
issue about this searching for Natasha podcast is is an anchor
based feed. Yeah, I mean, these guys are the plague. So let's
not pussyfoot around, let's just say anchor are assholes. Don is
very simple what we've what we've created for this, but then
really, is it about that? Or is it about what actually the an
index or an aggregator or an app has at what kind of links it is
maintaining, and that comes into the moderation part and and I
want to play a little piece of your interview with Sam Sethi
because it was just bizarre how this how this license block
taking feeds turned into what we have to be able to moderate.
That's one part All that I wanted to talk to you about was
the plagiarism. And the other part, though, just to get your
opinion, because I don't think it's something you directly
involved in. Should podcasting hosts, though, use auto
transcription and AI to look at the physical policing of content
within podcasts? Or is that something that bad and might
roll around on the floor and kick his legs off in
the end screen? Also unnecessary roughness on the field? What
does this leave me out of use of force? Well, I don't run a
hosting company. Yeah, it's just odd that that was part two of
this whole issue will continue. You're not allowed to do that.
It's a free speech platform and stop trying to prevent that.
Because my worry is you're going to get somebody like Marcio
green, put out a podcast where she goes, I can say anything I
like within this. And it could be hate speech, it could be
anything.
This is where the Brits and the Americans separate themselves,
man. It can be hate speech, it can be anything. And this is
this is a real thing. And I just want to make sure that everyone
understands. In my mind, I follow the constitutional
definition of freedom of speech, which is really stuff the
government cannot do to you, I can say whatever I want, the
government cannot infringe upon that except for a very narrow
case, such as yelling fire in a crowded theater when there is no
fire. That's still free speech. But it has, you know, it has
issue it has responsibility, as we would say, hate speech is so
subjective. And when this comes up in podcasting world, I put my
foot down. And really what I find hateful or offensive, it
may not be hateful or offensive to you. And we're gonna this
conversation is going right now. And I think I know why is
because of Israel and Palestine is raging everywhere. People are
yelling back and forth about this. It's just, it's a never
ending fight, just like the actual situation is never ending
fight. But let's try and keep this idiocy of hate speech.
Which The only examples I ever hear is Alex Jones and Joe Rogan
hate speech. Okay, Alex
Jones, Alex Jones, is podcasting to Bono? I mean, we know that
that's it's not chapters. We built it for him is too bad.
He's not there yet. Exactly. Sorry, good. That didn't know
you're gonna break up? Should we as podcasters be ready for this
before it becomes a legal issue? By addressing it in some way? Or
do we have to just wait for somebody to challenge a hosting
company and sue them ultimately. And that will be where it comes
down to if you want to get a real answer to it. But I don't
think that that is really that much of a thorny issue with us.
And our standpoint is, as from a directory approach, we as the
directory don't want to be policing it, you don't want your
your routers on the internet, or your BGP routers, policing
content, those things just need to pass content and let the
policing happen at a higher layer at the chain. So I think
that, really at the at the hosting company level, each one
has to make their own decisions, we see that within DNS too.
There's this constant battle and in the cybersecurity realm of
trying to police, DNS providers.
Exactly DNS providers or trying to tell people, you can't link
to something, you can't have a collection of links, you can't
publish a collection of links, links are truly the currency of
the internet. Now, if you're, if you want to make sure that your
feed is not duplicated, that's where I think of license. And,
and it was interesting to hear some misconceptions. There's
like, well, what kind of license what tears? No, no, there's a
million licenses out there. I like Creative Commons, I've used
it successfully in court. And that could just be for the use
of your feed. That's a little different than the link it's
about, it's for the use of your feet. And I and you know, just
the way we look at podcasts index is a we're gonna list
everything. If you are the owner of it, you don't want it there.
Greg will take it down. And soon we'll have a tool for you to do
that yourself. That's fantastic. If you don't have to be a part
of that. That's just our choice.
Well, I don't think that I know, let me let me back that up. I
think that you are your instinct about this is correct, that
there's many things being conflated. And it really just
makes the whole conversation more difficult. Because you have
really three different things. You have policing of content,
meaning hate speech, and all this kind of stuff. You have
licensing of content. And then you have blocking of who have
who can list and where you show up, I guess it's four things.
And then you have finally fraud. Right. So like, it's really a
whole lot of different things and it's, it does not help the
conversation to have to have them sort of all poured into one
mole and like MIT, you know, mixed around, because they're
really four separate conversations to be had. So the
lot like the license tag is great is, in my opinion, great
because you can express a license in, in the theme. And
you can say, here's what you can do with my content. legally. I
think that's it's, it's not, it's no different than what we
do with open source software. It's just, it makes sense when
it comes to blocking where you can be listed, separate issue.
But if you put the block tag in your feed, and you tried to
express in your feed, I only want these particular
directories and to be able to list me, that's to me, silly. I
think personally, I've already said, I'm willing to do the blog
tag, I think it's fine. But if people start using it with a
bunch of shenanigans and garbage, I'm just gonna stop,
but I'm not gonna I'm not gonna respect the tag that that we
built.
Let me just take take one thing out of the equation here. If
you're worried about your content being stolen, that has
been solved, it was solved many years ago. It's called Digital
Rights Management go to Spotify, you can put it there, you'll be
safe. You can have it running in their in their system, go to
Apple do subscription. It's all DRM, and then your content will
never get stolen. I mean, that's easy, easy, if you want if you
want to live dangerously, just like Microsoft grew big, not
just because of their tactics and their dominance over with
hardware manufacturers. piracy was an important part of their
global domination. The no agenda show has a policy, do whatever
you want, we wouldn't be a quarter of the size. If we had
said Oh, no, you can't do that. Oh, no, please, you can't you
can't have a player there. We you can't set up a witness. We
encouraged it. We did the opposite. We said Go for it. And
then if you make any money, send us some. It's not necessarily
the IRS looks at us and goes Boy, you guys have very
irregular income. Very strange was sure, exactly. But it's it's
you got to go all in or not. I don't think there's a there's a
middle ground when it comes to all of these issues piracy
included in look at anchor. I mean, if anything, we should
outlaw free shit. That's the problem. Everyone, everyone's
like, Hey, you get what you pay for everyone goes to anchor and
it's difficult to do things and it sucks. And that's okay. But
also their plague their Scourge?
Well, the industry, the industry has expressed that they don't
want their content stolen. So that you know, quote, unquote,
stolen. And we built a tag for it. And now it's time to just
start the industry itself to start public publicly shaming.
And I plan to actually play a part in that. Because what I'm
going to do is, I've already started kind of figuring this
out yesterday, what I started thinking about was watching for
these Feed URL changes, and when things move from, from a paid
host to a free host. And all this, you know, if when, when
that happens, if the lock tag was in place, when that
transition happened, then I'm going to you'll know, you'll
know what happened. Yeah, I don't know what I'm going to do
with it. But I'm going to pass it along to me, no industry
needs that kind of thing. And we'll and we'll just to give
people a heads up or I'll pass it along to the host I'll tell
if somebody went from blueberry to anchor and they had the the
lock tag and anchor didn't respect that, then I'll just let
Todd know, or somebody and just say, hey, here, I'll just start
feeding people stuff and saying this is what's going on. Because
I mean, that's the only way to not fix it. You know, that's not
going to happen. But that's the only way to get any traction
because there's no legal stuff here. It's only it's got to be
the industry policing itself.
There is there's definitely a way to do that. And we will be
there one day, it'll it'll take it'll take a bit. But one of
these days, there's going to be enough of our apps, we'll just
call them our apps, our team, team FAQ. And we're gonna say
you know what, everyone's gonna block everything from anchor
sorry, if your podcast is there, you're not going to work on any
of these apps because they're dickheads you want to see
someone something change real fast. When people start moving,
it's easy to move. And then the people who don't care who cares
about them anyway. We would have that power, all of the
collective apps would have that power.
They The fourth is a sort of that fourth leg is the the hate
speech thing. And that is to me, right like at this moment in
history, that is such a prescient discussion, because
the one thing that we've seen over the past week and this is
just like the most perfect example I can imagine is the
whole thing with walking back. The Wu Han lab Coronavirus Lake.
Yeah, you know, I don't want to get all Fenton into na
territory. But you walk this we have seen the entire world now
walking back from Oh, you thought Coronavirus was a was a
Wu Han lab Lake your kooky conspiracy? You're no you're
you're d platformed. Yeah, your D platform go back six months
ago. Go back six months ago and if you were on YouTube, and you
were spreading quote unquote, Coronavirus, misinformation,
man, they would hammer you. You got d platformed. Instantly, no
questions asked of us. I've got a long Reddit thread that I've
never actually brought up on this on the show. But I've got a
long Reddit thread that I printed out of this guy who was
like, I got d platformed. Nobody will respond to me. I never said
anything other than just, you know, basic information about
the virus. They get automated. The thing that Sam was talking
about the auto transcription in flagged it, they pulled it down
and he was he was banned and he was banned for like three weeks
with no explanation whatsoever. He's like I didn't say anything
wrong. So that you know, they've taken it back to the Coronavirus
Lab Lake thing. Now all of a sudden I've got this article
right here. It says you were PolitiFact retracted. It's Wu
Han lab theory fat check. Washington Post also retract has
retracted there's now all so all these fact checkers that were
claiming the dozen nutjob kooky conspiracy theory about the lab
leak are now reversing their fact check to from you know,
from false to maybe. And in the process. Potentially lots of
creators were deep platformed and lost a livelihood, because
these dudes got it wrong. Okay, litical legends, so
not just creators, doctors, doctors, scientists. And that
last point is the point. fact checking facts, truth,
information changes over time. So for the fact checkers to say,
you know what, we're reversing this fair game. But that's not
fair. When you're throwing people off platforms because of
it. That's that's the part that's the problem, like, Oh,
you fact check false and you're out. And when it comes to
something as subjective as hate speech, and and, and this is
part of why this is Mission number one is, you know, the
reason I want to stay relevant, Dave is to it's all political. I
just want to make sure alex jones can be heard. But the
prevalence of this topic, and and the Cavalier pneus, with
which hate speech is used and discussed amongst very smart
people, I have a clip is disturbing. This is my favorite
hate cast. Because I hate them. I hate the podcast. And so
whenever a new episode, I wish I could boost because I'd hate
boost. I would hate this thing. I would hate boosting all over
this thing. I just be jisan SATs on them is sway pivot from Kara
Swisher who as you know, when podcasting was first introduced,
the first thing she said is, well, how do we make sure that
no naughty content? Can she get camp? So she's been a moderator
and an ad platformer from day one. And Scott Galloway, who I
think is very smart guy. He's incredibly wealthy and arrogant.
So that gives me an extra hate hate thing. But there's a lot of
good information, a lot of interesting takes on stories
they come from, from things. It's not even a we may have
political differences, but that's unimportant. It is it is
truly about the words they use. And this was an example when it
comes to Russia, because of course Russia very, very bad.
And now Google had fined Russia, Russia had find Google $80,000
for not removing some content or putting something whatever it
was. It was about moderation moderating, and or removing or
adding content in Russia. But bottom line moderating and
here's what they had to say about it.
This is a country right? It's not a big business for Google.
Russia is a big business. I think Russia has more to lose
here in that regard. But it's not just Russia. It's India,
like They're doing stuff in New Zealand, Australia, like this
Canada like and then eventually, laterally. Yeah, they're all
like talking about various and sundry things about, you know,
in, in, in the in the democracies. It's like hate
speech needs to be controlled in Russia. It's don't talk about
the like, yeah, that's right. So which speech needs to be
controlled speech needs to be controlled is really the bottom
line, although it's different speech and I think you and I
would probably go Yeah, hate speech is being trolled. No
letting it only take you know, I mean, that's the problem here.
That's
the nuance that no one wants to talk about. Now we'll talk about
it, professor. In a democracy, you want to moderate hate
speech. That's the most contradictory thing I've heard
in my life.
That I've got a clip that I've been hauling around for a little
bit. Obama on free speech 2012. Now I know that not all
countries in this body share this particular understanding of
the protection of free speech, we recognize that. But in 2012,
at a time when anyone with a cell phone can spread offensive
views around the world with a click of a button, the notion
that we can control the flow of information is obsolete. Not
according to Kara,
at some point between 2012 and now, the dialogue changed from
Hey, this is free speech. just deal with it, too. Oh, we can do
this. They can moderate every word that comes out of
everybody's mouth. Yeah. And that, too. So they're, you know,
this, this whole thing of the the PolitiFact retractions, the
same thing, I brought this up a few months ago, the same thing
happened with or not the same thing. But a similar issue
happened with Joe Biden in his track record on the was the
crime bill Granville Yep. And there was a lot of the the other
democrat nominees in the in the race for the White House. Were
all all almost were claiming that his crime bill led to mass
incarceration of blacks. Well, you know, the, the all if you
did a survey of all the fact checking organizations,
he was all over the map. Do you realize that even just the fact
that you said blacks and not African American, the transcript
will be flagged? And this episode would be at best delayed
for release?
That is the very, you know, it was all over the map. It's true.
Bart's maybe, perhaps there was no consistency course
whatsoever.
Course not. Of course. It's It's so subjective, but it's also
pathetic.
And I mean, like when you when you're when you're fat check,
this is when this is what I mentioned to Sam. When it's not
about what you find. It's about what you do with it when you
find it. Yes.
I heard you say that. Exactly. Then what So okay, we found that
we found the bigger fence now what?
Yeah, that's the thing is so so this, this podcast that got the
get delisted, I don't know if it nobody still knows what what the
problem was. But this podcast was called searching fight
finding Natasha. No, no hidden. Something different. Sorry.
Yeah. Okay. So this, the host of this, this podcast is called
hidden something I can't remember hidden agendas, or I
don't remember that. He said, I've podcast was 1600 35
ratings. 5.0 average, been around for five years. And the
podcast is no longer showing up on the mobile app on the apple
podcast mobile app. And he said, he followed it up and he said,
the episode mentioned the Israeli Palestinian conflict,
could this have caused it to be censored? any links to the right
Right, right. Right. Right. You know, and the thing is, like, I
was talking when I was talking to Sam, I'm like, okay, so you
have maybe you have a podcast host based based based in
Israel. Maybe you have another one based in Palestine. Maybe
you have one in the United States. Well, each one of those
organizations is had they have to be responsible for this. The
local your local, these kinds of decisions have to be hyper
local. They cannot be anything broad based that that you can
have like a you can just plug in like content moderation system
and have it do the work for you. Because if let's just say that
you did get d platformed. From a Israeli podcast host for saying
something that they thought was potentially dangerous or hate
speech or something like that? Well, then you can move to
another host. Like
that. I mean, in the United States where I think so a lot of
hosting takes place, there is a protection under Section 230.
The host has doesn't have to do anything, they don't have to
concern themselves. There's no liability. All of that is fine.
They don't have to worry about it at all. It's not the same
everywhere. But it's just it's a non issue. Why would they have
to do that unless that they unless they are being contacted
by some content police, headed by Kara Swisher in some kind of
cop uniform? with chains?
Yeah, I can, I can tell you this. We think I've mentioned
this before. Now, my wife is is basically a civil rights
activist. And we do lots of stuff with the black community
here in Birmingham. And we were at a thing about three weeks
ago, it was like a, this was like, read as a survey of a few
of the black civil rights leaders in Birmingham, which if
you know, any of the history of Birmingham, Alabama, I mean,
like this was the era for civil rights. Just absolute black
civil rights heroes were born and lived here. So there was a
guy from the Birmingham civil rights Institute, they're doing
an overview of four different figures that were prominent in
Birmingham civil rights. You know, one of them was, it was
Angela Davis, she was here. She was actually born here in
Birmingham. I don't know if anybody knows that. But the this
guy did a survey. And it was the audience was mostly white man is
probably an 8020. In the sense you got was we just want to have
open dialogue, want to have be able to talk to each other
without fear? And we, you know, I see that all all over the
place these political, the political activists on social
media have stirred up so much distrust the the social media
race war, it's been, it's been so detrimental. And I love them.
That's one of the things I love about Moe. is these all the time
saying, you know, when he's quoting Malcolm X by saying we
need to sit down together at the same table and talk without
fear? That's 100%. Right? Well, you have content moderation
systems, just sort of slowly churning in the background,
flagging people, deep platform, people, all this kind of stuff.
He does, then you take it out, and there's no, there's no
humanity in that at all.
That's exactly right. And it's so deep, as I noticed, during
the show with Moe, that we were we are completely everything's
on the table with us. And so I'll say like, Hey, man, I feel
really uncomfortable about this certain situation. And here's
how I approach it. And here's what I think in a black American
white American scenario. And he'll say, well, it's odd
because I have exactly these feelings on my side. And I'm
afraid to say this or that. And it's all because of this, this
lack of dialogue because of the policing of words, that you're
not seeing it right and might offend someone by using the
wrong terminology or pronoun. And it's, it's it anyway.
podcasting is a place for everybody, I really don't care.
I don't think moderation will ever work. The only reason to
moderate is to keep advertisers happy. That's the only reason to
do it. And that's why it happens is ultimately advertisers want
nothing to do with controversy of any kind.
There are definitely things that I don't want to listen to at all
right, so guess what, you probably don't listen to it.
I don't know. I don't know. And the The other thing about the
the quantity the number of those things is very small. Like the
number of podcasts out there that are truly and I mean, truly
offensive like in a way where you can tell the person is an
actual psychopath that and I mean that in the in the medical
sense those things are very rare some of my favorites
I love those the complete crate you know there was a I got a
note this morning someone I know agenda social. Tonight you are
viewing moderating contact. So we talking about well, I had
this whole thing about Palestine versus Israel, and then all of a
sudden that thread is gone. And I said, Well, maybe the other
guy blocked you and maybe he deleted his posts. Which deletes
the children of that post. It's, you know, what do you want me to
say? And he's, that should be a record, pre record of this
conversation. So who exactly so that to me is also the lunacy.
It's mental, it's a mental issue, you're addicted to
something, you're addicted to some kind of controversy or
something you need to have or you miss it. No, maybe you're
missing something else in your life. It's just not that
important. And
you take Brandon brown of London, do you know g living in
Israel? He, you know, he'll be the first one to tell you, you
know, the Holocaust deniers and those kind of folks He's like, I
think the most effective strategy for those guys is
ridicule. He's like, I don't, I don't I don't want to shut him
up. Because it makes him more dangerous. He's like, I just
want to
sit back and laugh at him. Bottom line is all this
divisiveness is done for a reason. It's this divide and
conquer is we're all bickering we're all doing stupid shit. And
we're not getting on with our mission. So let's move on with
the mission, shall we? How about that?
Yeah, no, no,
no, no, no. We need to bring some sexy back into the show.
What do you want to do? Well, what are your closing closing
the phase? Which is that face? Three, three. Yeah. So there's
going to be same license. trailer, and alternate
enclosure. Ooh, okay. An alternate enclosure is big,
because then we can move forward with the video with na tube to
have different resolutions, right? That's one use.
Yes. So it's got a few Yeah, it's got a few different uses.
Like this is sort of a real Swiss Army knife. And the so a
few just off the top a few uses you can have we do have low
bitrate versions of or higher bit or higher. Yeah, low or
high. have different audio content or video content. You
can have alternate streams like something like a director's cut
or our commentary track, things like that. You can have
different aspects like different resolutions of the basically any
different type of media experience this related to that.
Let me ask you a question. Just something just hit me. So it can
be any content type? Yeah. Any content type? Yes. So just a
crazy crazy question. Could it be a content type Could it be a
file that has a chat room transcript synchronized to the
playback does have to be pure playable media.
Yeah, that's not that's not really gonna happen with
alternating closure that No, I don't think so.
Okay. All right. It was just a crazy idea throughout their day
this look oh, Dave's going to the archive by the way. When I
saw your your walls. Do you live in the same place that Tim does
from Ellen pay? Because it looks very similar. Does he have
possums also delphis possums but I see the the exposed insulation
in the woods. Bear light bulbs and stuff like,
huh? Yeah. Don't ask my wife about that. She's not real happy
with the state of our house right now. Yeah, I'm
sure the possum wasn't a winter weather either.
Oh, no, no, that's not going over Well, let's see type one
looking at the attributes here. Type length bit rate. You can
specify these different attributes on the alternate
enclosure, but it can be a torrent it can be a torrent as
well. Correct? Yes, different. Okay, so he's got in here
different codecs. Yes, a tour like dill. You can have
different if you want to serve your well. Here's another use
case if you wanted to have your base enclosure be HTTPS. But
then you also wanted to serve another version over ipfs. Okay.
Perfect, perfect. And then you could have audio and video both.
Here's a question.
A web app that if I'm using a web app using brave and brave
has the ipfs switched on? It should understand the
alternative link natively, right?
That isn't good. Wow, that's fucking cool. Would that be? The
only question would be whether or not brave could interpret
what the file was supposed to be? Like, when you when you
deliver a binary attachment, they call it an attachment in
HTTP parlance, when you deliver a binary attachment, you can you
specify in the response header, I'm sorry, I'm doing all this on
the fly and in your
in your cap file knows what app to open. The dot dot cap file
wasn't that it doesn't see a B, the dot c gap, I think was like
a Unix thing. I don't know that's you're going farther back
than me.
So when you deliver a file over a binary file over HTTP, you can
specify the response header, what the MIME type is, and then
also what the content so I think it's called the content
disposition header. And that tells when you open it in line,
or download it as an attachment, or download it as a file
download, which basically, you know, just saves it to your
machine, instead of delivering it to the browser viewport.
Right, right. Right, handled as me as content. By the way it was
it was a dot Domain Dot male pcap file. I'm sorry. Oh, male
cat. That's just like, this is the inbox for us to know, what's
a little box format? Yeah. The mail capabilities file. And
that's it. So that that would be the only question is whether or
not brave has the ability to pull some sort of control
directive out of the returned thing in ipfs? Because ipfs to
my knowledge doesn't have anything like a header, like a
response header that can tell the browser what to do with it.
Right.
Well, here's the good news. I'm looking now i i have dmws with
Brendan Eich. Oh, great for me from brave, right. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, he's the inventor of JavaScript. Yeah. So I'll just
say, hey, Brandon, fix this for us. Will you damage done by
Monday?
I wonder Sam Sethi knows him because Sam used to work at
Mozilla a bit. They were around at the same time.
Oh, really? Maybe? Maybe? Yeah. But you know, he it's not I
don't know, man. He's probably persona non grata. he's a he's a
homophobe. Oh, yeah. Brandon. Yeah. forgot about that. Yeah,
he gave money to some company. That's some outfit political
outfit. That's homophobes can't be with him anymore. Yeah.
That's at least that's what he was the platform for whether it
was true or not. I don't know. Okay, that's,
yeah. So anyway, that's the that's the alternate enclosure.
That has to be that's step one. of getting to. It's not just
step one of getting this other thing. I mean, it's it's a
badass tag, but it is also step one of getting to where we want
to go with a lot the live stream part. Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
And then pod, pod pain will take. We're gonna hopefully
evolve that
thing. Being a live alert system. Yeah. Yeah. And also,
you gotta stay gotta stop. All right. Dave Jones, you have done
such an incredible job with pod Ping. Not only so you have
you've, you string it out Brian of London. Of course. Lots of
people helped. But you oversaw the project strung it together.
You personally reaching out to the hosts to make sure that they
they start pinging us and you're doing PR for it? What about
bamboo appeals? You went on? The pod land show? Oh, yeah, that's
right. That's when you went on just for just for yucks. No, you
went on. I gotta teach you so much on. That's promotion.
autopilot. I'm on autopilot. Now. Congratulations, man. This
is a very, very, very big deal. Yeah, I think so. I think it is
a big deal. It has lifted off. I mean, we've got a few of the
biggest hosts on board already. Now we just need to start
shaming the rest.
That's what I told Sam yesterday is when I start adding this
started adding it up. I've got my sheet here. They pull up a
sheet. In fact,
we are single handedly saving tons of carbon. We should get
carbon credits for what we're doing. Honestly. Eric, Eric,
Eric, get us some carpet. Yes, you can trade those. You can
trade them for Dogecoin for bad. Take bad. I'd finally turn that
on. I'm like I need some bat. Just I want to collect some bat.
Almost nothing.
Good to see that's how you buy hive, evidently is you you get
traded carbon credits to get a bag to move into Dogecoin to
finally buy hive. I was just wanting to buy some hive the
other day. Oh my god. It's not easy. I know, bro. Brian Brown.
Stop complaining about lightning ever bought hive before? He is
impossible. No, no, no, don't make him post about it. Don't
make it post. Okay. The Yes. So the top 25 hosting companies are
collectively responsible for 3.4 million out of the 3.8 million
fees we have. So I mean, if if those top 25 guys start pod
pinging, he could homeless shut down all aggregators. I mean,
you can have like one aggregator sitting in the closet doing the
rest of them. And 10 minutes I keep,
I keep pinging Apple podcasts on Twitter. Say, Hey, you know,
every single time someone says, hey, how come? How come my
podcast hasn't shown up yet? I say they're working fine over
here. new podcast apps calm and Apple you're more than welcome
to tie into pod paying. Come on, it'll save you money. I mean,
they can do it overnight and then focus on those edge cases
and get those with your crawler. I don't want to think about how
much carbon is being spewed into the atmosphere smothering Greta
tune Barry, because of the apple crawler.
That said there's three there's three pod things servers
currently us Europe, Australia. See what I'm doing. Sexy Yeah, I
got one local I see your baits upside down. But
and he's doing business strategy ladies and gentlemen. He's a
powerhouse Wait, donate boost. Come on everybody. Here's your
cue to boost you know you want to
I've got speaking of boost. Okay, I've got three I did not
know Dame Jennifer was gonna do that. So I've got I've got a
boost jingle that I did. Oh, there but I've seen variation.
three variations of this. Are you doing audio production now
as well? I mean, why am I even showing up? Well, the This is
Fauci. Because he says it 1000 times a day he does get to have
a Fauci bass boost. So that's one boost. Boost. Okay, now
number two, boost. I'd like that with a proof proof. Okay, so
number three is sweetened up with a little bit of confetti
boost that didn't come across very well. Now. That doesn't
quite work. I don't know what do you think one two or three well
boost.
Boost I think to two has a funny little like pumpkin, but we need
a little extra extra just as effects and number three came
across like a hiss and it was supposed to be confetti. Let me
see. Well, how about this, we could also do a combo deal here
we could do booze. cruise missile action. Number two
sounds like it's supposed to be a core part. But it sounds like
Fauci is in the in the bathroom drop. dropping a deuce booze can
go on forever. Anyway, that's my contribution to the Django
scenario. Very nice. We need an honor. I was thinking about this
though, we need some kind of onboarding doc. Something that
may be similar to the value for value.io that I did just
explains here's what it is. I mean, I'm sure you have it, but
it's something we could point people to so they can harass
other people about it to get it done. Something that can send to
Tim Cook which I'm sure is t cook@apple.com.
Yeah, then that's probably not a mailbox that gets a lot of
email.
By the way of jobs was literally s jobs@apple.com. Was he I have
it still I have that I when I was gonna go meet with him. I I
signed up for Apple Mail so I had Adam curry@mac.com I think
cuz I for sure didn't want to you know, I want to seem like
such a loyalist so you got an email here Adam Curry at max
calm and he sent me an email so jobs at max calm maybe that's
just me since from I don't know, but I was I kept it. I was
impressed.
And that he had a full time sysadmin just to manage his his
mailbox. Maybe
Maybe not. I don't know. I know. The way to do it is you just
throttle the attachment size. That's what works for me. Yeah,
well, you've
got a full time sysadmin working on your mailbox.
I do. Avoid zero. Yeah, do but is this something I can help
right or something that we can put together just to adopt
because it's so good. I want people to I want people to And
maybe we approach it from save the Earth perspective.
or know your time that the value block, right? No, I'm talking
about pod ping o pod p O. Like an onboarding doc.
Yeah.
Well, not yet because I'm having to manually create the
authentication tokens. So not ready. Not ready. We're working.
We're working now. And by the way, Brett brown of London. I
mean, he wrote half this crap himself is not you know, this.
This is not just me. Oh, no, he's been and he's on fire.
Yeah, I mean, he just does not stop. He doesn't sleep. And, you
know, Alex, it's Alice Gates is helping him with his Python and
all that good stuff. It's It's such. It's such a great team
effort here. It's, oh, speaking of team speaking of team, Mike
Newman, or Norman, I'm not sure how you pronounce his name. He
finally filled out he filled out the team repo. So that
Oh, yes, I saw that word. Yes, very nice. That's a big list.
It's a very big list. If your stuff is messed up from there or
not, right, or if you're not on it, just do a, do a pull request
and run it. Right. But I really appreciate him doing that.
Because that's, there's been so many people contributing to
this, and you can't even he just can't remember them all. Because
everything is nice to look, I was looking down that list and
remembering what people have done. And I was oh, my goodness,
there's so
much Yes, I know. Can you grab your stack of papers, let's
thank some of the people who have devoted their treasure to
podcasting 2.0 as we are a value for value proposition. You can
support the show in many ways. One Of course, here's your cue
to boost. You know, you want to yes, you do boost us boost as
hard. Or you can go to podcast index.org scroll down to the
bottom is a big red Donate button for your cut box through
Pay Pal. That's a still a preferred method, since we don't
have the channels to get more than 10 bucks at a time. But
we're building and all we ask is that people support the whole
project, which includes the podcast, everything that
everything around podcasting 2.0 to keep the server's running
keep everything moving. We can we By the way, we use this money
to open channels is all kinds of stuff. And we have a couple of
people to thank for today's episode and the past week's
work. Yes, good.
It's a it's a really good stack. And right off the bat, as Xavier
from podcast addict gave us $500 holy crap. Yeah. He says keep
up. Keep up the great work Xavier from podcast attic.
I think I I also I think I promoted podcast addict on the
last no agenda. This is a I'm doing that now at every donation
segment. I'm talking about podcasting. 2.0. Then I talk
about new podcast apps calm and then I highlight. I say I
suggest you try out this app today. And I think podcast
addict was maybe two weeks ago or two weeks ago. Yeah. Oh,
yeah. I'm throwing everything in. Everything I got. Yeah. guns
blazing. guns blazing. Exactly. Thank you very much, Xavier.
Really Let freedom ring.
Let's see who we got next. Oh, sir. Pete 6969.
Oh, Sir. Sir. Paid actually from the Netherlands. Yes. Thank you,
sir. Appreciate. He's been around my value projects for a
long time. He's a good guy.
Okay, so he says, sir Pete says dear Dave, and Adam, listen,
here's the deal. I can't help getting that was not a good job.
But listen, here's the deal. I can't help getting great ideas
when I listened to your Friday inspiration broadcast. As a
former software architect, I love to hear our data
continuously improve the way the index and the feed features
work. As a former content strategist, I also love how Adam
translates those improvements to something both business owners
and listeners get. As a side note, I'm still baffled what why
people are hesitant to implement the value block. I am as well.
Even even if it's a closed loop value system, the streaming sets
and messages are the ultimate way to track engagement and ways
to improve the bond with listeners and producers. It's
like having your own private verified Nielsen engine. Anyway,
right? tell you that is my 6.969 cents worth keep singing the
gospel and building and keep building on the backbone of
liberated media. Love is lit love equals fire.
love and love is lit is a new thing that no agenda producers
have latched on to him. So where did that come from? Well, it
came from there was a period when a lot of people were dying
celebrities and and on social media. You always see the
following. Rip, love and light. Oh yeah. And so we would start
saying, Oh yes, love and light, love and light. And somewhere
someone is almost like hodel someone misspelled it became
loving lit and so is that just stuck now? It's loving, loving.
Thanks for great appreciate it, man.
Yeah, thanks. Okay, so, sir bill of Glen rock, he gave us $50 and
he says, Please credit me. Yes, sir bill of Glen rock go podcast
go podcasting. Thank you very much. Beloved Glen rock. Oh,
this guy's familiar. Benjamin Bellamy. Hey, Benjamin with me.
$45 he donates just to hear you say, I know. For me to say
custom pod. Sydney. This year, it's your French keeps him
coming back. 45 $45.70 US
dollars paid in, in French socialist government euros.
Or if I was if I was. If I was Cridland, I would say $45.70.
Thank you for everything you bring to free podcasting into
the open web. I don't know if I deserve it. But I'd be honored
to get a T shirt. Of course you deserve it. Of course he does.
Get that man a T shirt. Definitely promise. I promise
I'll do my best to be worthy. What color do you want your cast
upon instance? Benjamin Bellamy.
What color do I want my Casta pod instance? I thought they
were all green. I'd like it to orange please. I would orange
the color of Bitcoin and coincidentally the color of all
human beings on on a color scan. We're all orange. Also the color
of Donald Trump's skin. Okay, thanks another good reason Dave.
Thanks for bringing that up. Maybe you want to switch it to
blue now? No, I want orange I can't wait Benjamin thank you so
much for supporting everything you you guys are true and thank
you for for for for however you did that and however you get
funded and if you ever need someone to to help with a
presentation for your next funding round from the
government. Let me know. I'll monkey dance. I'll help you. I
was good at it. I help people raise money all the time. No, I
know you are Yeah, I love it. I love helping with that. I love
it. I don't it's free free service. If it's if it's for
podcasting. Just give a boost just boost back boost. Michael
Michael Kimber sees in his $25 and he says boosting my monthly
Sir Michael Black Knight the dude's name Ben
nice. Boost. Thank you. Appreciate you liking these.
Dave. I'm liking it. I'm liking him for that
boost. For that donation you get to listen to bouchy take a dump.
Let's see. This is anonymous. Anonymous for Northern Virginia.
Go podcasting gave us 1111 snake. Beautiful. Thank you.
Okay, get to subscriptions. $10 each one to $10 from Jordan.
There's not a note on either one of Jordan dunville $10 a month
and James Sullivan $10 a month. Thank you both. Thanks. Both
appreciate Yeah, very much. No, there's no note on those. But do
you want to like defragment them? Are you happy to?
Let's see we get Christopher say these are the monthly fees they
hit this week. Christopher reamer ducote coats. Michael
kimmer Oh, Michael. He just donated a one time donation to
Christopher was $10. stickers. $6.66. Michael camera or
530 $5.33 Jeff Miller $20 Leslie Martin $2 Dred Scott $15. You
drove? Thanks, Terry Keller $4.11 Pedro then call this $5
and Aaron Renaud $5. And I think we need like, I think it's not
obvious. We have reciprocity with the no agenda period.
Right. I mean, if you show up here as a night or something, I
mean, you get full honor. You get treated as a night
of course. So the we we we recognize peerage across all
tribe boundaries. Absolutely.
No facts. No. I mean, there's no facts. Of course, you're
recognized with your appropriate level of honor. We we accept
your credentials here. Yes, yes, full reciprocity. That's why
it's like the Sheraton also accept Marriott points. To make
it the cheapest analogy. I thought you'd appreciate that.
Alright, that's it. That's our group.
Thank you all very much. You're doing great work. Everyone is
time, talent treasure, the three T's of the value for value
model. It just proves that humanity exists. And we can do
these things. When we all put it together. And we can, again,
I'll say, you know, we have the brain power of at this point, a
$50 million dollar company that is working on projects. And
we're more open more honest and more driven and more
enthusiastic than any other company. I've been a part of or
started or it's, it's incredible to see this type of energy. And,
and everyone should be very proud of what we're doing. Even
Dvorak. He's like, Hey, man, you guys got traction with that
podcast? 2.0 thing. I'm gonna write up some high praise. Yeah,
it is high praise. I'm gonna write up some I'm gonna get some
I'm gonna get used more interviews, more exposure for
this thing. So that's really kind john. Yeah, I'm gonna I got
a list and I know, I know who to talk to and get you on TV and
everywhere and nice man. Why? Because you know, whenever you
do that more people show up for no agenda. So it's good.
Conversation with
this. There's an article cosmic weenie article income, cosmic
article. As a PDF, yeah.
I wanted to dig up to Steven B with Curio caster who just
waltzed into into the garden and, and said, Oh, look at this.
Holy crap, that guy is everything working, I think that
I don't think there's a single tag that isn't working in that
app.
That's a great app. I mean, it's really, it's solid, it feels
good. I mean, it's responsive, like it doesn't feel sluggish or
anything like it's just, it's tight. It's a tight
app. Well, the onboarding was beautiful. And this is what I
kind of liked about it. And pod friend does a version of this
too. It's like when you show up at a value block enabled
podcast, it shows you all the controls. And then when you hit
one of those controls, then it brings up the Okay, you need
satoshis for this little short explanation, and then generate
an invoice, then fill up the wallet. And so you do need a
username password to create to create an account, he's
obviously hosting those keys, which I really appreciate.
Because it's, you know, it's, it's a bridge for now, I guess,
it's a great way to bridge between now. And whenever we get
more capability, either in the browser or in an app, so that we
don't have to deal with the, with everyone being a custodial
posted wallet provider. And I understand the apprehension for
a lot of developers who don't want to do that. But when
someone just jumps in and says No, fuck it, we'll do it for
now. We'll see what happens. It's really appreciated.
Getting the tip jar thing is great, too. I think that's the
first time I've seen that is it? Am I wrong?
It is incredibly smart. And it's such a nice variation of what
Martin posted an idea a couple of weeks ago, not even that long
ago. And he showed a screen where you could change the split
values. And I think pretty much the people on that thread were
like, yeah, now that's kind of weird if you're if you're
changing those splits. And then Steve with creo caster took it
one step further, or in a different direction, really
lateral move. I said, Well, what if you could just send an
additional amount to anybody on that split, which includes the
app, and I have found quite honestly, that I'm boosting
Curio caster as much as I'm boosting anybody else. Yeah,
like, just like, I'm enjoying this app right now. I'm just
gonna boost him boosted the index just for the hell of it.
Yeah. Did you? I love self boosting. It's, you know, don't
don't tell anyone I do it.
No. I think that's fantastic. That's a great use very smart
idea of that. Because you you have a whole chain there
available to you. It's like, it's like a like, you know, Mark
Martin's idea was that, but then this is just like a refinement.
Yeah. Where you're like, Oh, yeah,
this perfect iterator. Right. Perfect. And so Abel Kirby, who
is a he's a great songwriter, composer, musician. He's done
many of the top top jingles and songs for no agenda. So he's put
together a band, they're recording an album they've
already contractually signed two splits. So his whole value block
will be for like the drummer and the bass player etc. No Oh yeah,
and he's going to upload it to podcasting. 2.0 each track will
be a different is a different episode. Oh, nice. But imagine
this, you're listening and let's just say killer bass solo. Open
the tip jar based BAM boost boost. Boost. Boost a basic
boost. exactly that. How cool is that? Hillary? How cool is that
gonna be? No have been done for the music stuff to come on I
loads. Yeah, it's gonna come it's gonna come. And seriously
all someone would have to do is just change the skin, too. Music
caster I don't care pot, podcast music, whatever you want to call
it.
But so I'm like you so often I'm listening to it as something in
like I'm either in pop friend or breeze or, you know, pod verse
or anything and I'm and I'm like and I'm thinking, this is such
a, like I just feel start to feel really good about the whole
experience of Oh yeah, streaming SATs and all that kind of stuff.
And I want to thank the developer, I want to boost the
app itself. And it may be I mean, seriously, great idea. I
want to I may want to give them I may want to give them like 10
bucks a pop, and you might have something and here's the other
thing, every one of these apps needs a tip jar every single and
this is a great way yes is a great way to do it. Yeah,
because cuz you don't know. Okay, Martin. You don't know who
is out there. That is really going to appreciate this. And
just drop you 500 bucks out of nowhere.
You know who's really thoughtful about this stuff. Tina, she's a
pod fan, pod friend fiend as she and you know, and she listens to
a number of value block enabled shows and no agenda or she
didn't listen to this. Because like, just give me the cliff
notes. Yeah, hot namespace talk baby. Oh, okay. She's very aware
of Dame Jennifer's role. Yeah. But she she's like I boosted
that. I thought that was such a good point. And so if she knew
that she could boost Martin for for the app she do it she do it
in a heartbeat. So what I share with anybody and you know what
it's interaction it's the podcast or saying hey, you know
really great experience on pod friend. Once you go you know,
boost or go ahead and, and, and throw a pod friends some
subsets. And here's how you do it. Another when podcasters you
lazy lazy, lazy douchebags, you've got to tell people to use
some of these new apps new podcast apps.com it will work
you will receive satoshis everyone gets happy. This This
is tough love from the pot father big time. It's Friday.
This is what I like. And have you ever been in a board meeting
like this? I've been in a lot of board meetings Dave I've never
been a board meeting where we can call everyone douchebags and
just talk I want to
I've never been in one where there was the sound of people
taking the dogs and booze. Yeah, like breed breeze. You know,
they basically granted my wish I put an issue on the on their
repo of, I don't know a month and a half ago about deep
linking into sharing an episode directly in the app. And then
they rolled it out in testflight. I want to boost I
want to boost those them of course. Yeah, I want to say
thanks. I want to give him you know, give him 5000 SATs right
there are 10,000 or whatever. Also
speaking about the speaking of boosting pod station, pod
station browser extension getting a lot of extra features
including a boost button. Yeah, very nice.
Gil Gaylor. Matt put put the tip jar in. Yeah, exactly. Do it now
I'll I will definitely boost you and I know everybody else will
to do that. That needs to be a standard.
I mean that and believe it or not. A lot of our money goes. A
lot of our private money goes into boosting everybody. I think
we're just shooting money to everybody. I know it's at least
a couple 100 bucks a month. I know I know. I'm boosting I'm
over boosting.
I listened to potluck pod news every morning me too as my as my
religion.
Five I 500 stat boost the minute from Portland. Okay, pod net dot
new review. Boom. Okay. 500 SATs now I'm going to listen
streaming 50 SATs a minute. If you mentioned my name triple
boost. Turbo Boost.
Yeah, that's I mean, I'm I'm single handedly responsible for
most of Portland's revenue from yesterday boosted mass my own. I
boosted a lot, man I boosted Thank you. But I mean, that's
just if you throw in the if you if you value and what your
podcast I agree with sir Pete just value net with your podcast
it doesn't take away from your main source of revenue. And what
I've seen a lot of people doing. I've seen a lot of podcasters
putting a value blog in their feed, and then not not
mentioning it on the show. But it's just sitting there.
Yeah, that's the big that's the biggest mistake. That's why I
keep saying new podcast apps calm or choose one you like and
tell people to try it. I, what I what I love doing with the web
apps I'm gonna start doing now is Oh, here's my show, click on
this. People get this whole fantastic app right in their
browser. Like that's, that's a way to show people something
new. Yeah.
That's it's an I'm like it. I'm like him. I don't I don't I'm
not sure I understand the trepidation there. Oh, adoption
takes time. And it's just these things take time. But it's, I
see, you know, devore x, right. We have traction. We have we
have traction, it's taken off people know about it. I think
there's something about our stats page that I showed him pod
ping dot watch. And he shit himself. He's like, polyfiber
like, I've never seen this before. Now he's, he's thinks
the way he sees it. Is that you guys have all the podcasts 3.8
million. You have all the podcasts, we have all the stats,
you know exactly what's new, where it's coming from? Is
that's that that's that's newsworthy. All right. All
right.
I'll do whatever it takes no problem. That's a lot of that.
They, you know, a lot of this manual curation too. So what,
what two things I do every day? is a look at the podcast, the
various podcast newsletters that come out. Yeah. But pardon us by
guests Business Journal, and see the new podcast announcements.
And I hand by hand, I check to make sure that the new shows
that are being announced are in there, if that are in in the
index, if at all possible. Okay, so there's a lot. Yeah, there's
a lot of that because you don't, people may not add them. So I'm
having to, you know, we may be three weeks before we find, you
know, find a new show. So I get it. I'm doing that by hands. A
lot of that's not just automated. And there's some
manual stuff, manual labor that has to go into that.
If you're listening to this podcast, and you'd like to value
enable your podcast, go to value for value.io value number four
value.io. And follow the yellow brick road. It should work for
you. Hey, Dwayne, talk about pod chasers API. What exactly does
pod chaser do? Are they a business? Or are they what is
their what is their VC backed
their VC back then? And they started as a way to do that? Is
that their business model VC backed is that our mission
statement? Our mission statement is to be VC backed. No, it's
I've talked to those guys before, Ben slinger and forget
at the CEOs name that we talked, I talked to him back when we did
the podcast taxonomy stuff, huh. And good. Seemed like great
guys, very distributed. Ben slinger, is in Australia. The
other guys named it's eluding me right now is in Hawaii. So
they're very far apart. But the their business started as like a
way to centralize reviews, podcast reviews and stuff. Oh,
right. Right. Right. Right, do attribution for guest
appearances and that kind of thing and sort of keep a
database of that, but they've, they've really grown into some
other data looks like they're, honestly, it looks like they're
trying to do everything. So I don't know exactly sure what the
focus is anymore. But I know, I know, they're VC backed. I'm 99%
sure of that.
And so their API, what does that does that offer something that
we like, or we can collaborate on?
Well, and I'd love to collaborate with with various
like, you know, we're, we got a sort of dialogue going on with
listen notes and stuff now to get over there yet. So any API's
and directories I would always love to sort of work with and
share info and all that stuff. I think this is really important.
I'm not sure. I don't know, I'm not sure how willing they are to
sort of, you know, get all get involved. But, I mean, they they
seem like they're on board with the namespace from what I can
tell they've been they've contributed a little bit that.
But I don't know, I mean, like there, I was gonna use their API
to do reverse lookups from to find it and iTunes ID from a
Feed URL. But then john Spurlock posted there. Terms of Service
and then it was like, they were like their terms of service said
basically No. No. Yeah, the term the terms were basically if
you're if you're using this to build a competing directory or
API get lost, so get lost in the fine print. It did not it was
not that specific wording, but he was pretty much like that. He
was the legal equivalent of gay laws. Excellent. All right.
basically say we're gonna ban you. Okay? That's a shame but
whatever.
What's on what's on deck for this for next week. Just
basically namespace stuff. Next week. Jake namespace and then
Miami. We're going to Miami. Oh, God, I can't next week, man.
Shit. That's that's Thursday. Oh, holy crap. Yeah, I gotta. I
gotta pack dude. Yeah, I got crap. The namespace Monday.
Monday, Tuesday. Well, I'm actually meeting. I'm just doing
another namespace Monday.
That was the next big hit. I got it. I'm going to jitsi meeting
with Brian of London. We're going to try to get some stuff
wrapped up with piping so we don't keep spamming the
mastodon. Alright, cool. And stuff like that.
How to work with Roy on some of this web ln web browser stuff.
Yeah, that sounds good. I'm glad. I'm glad that you're like,
doing all the lightning stuff because I feel overloaded. Oh,
yeah.
I mean, it's. And also you got to keep up with so much. What
changed? And you have to learn how to speed Listen, so it's not
an easy task. I'm doing the best I can here. Alright, my brother.
How about weekend plans? I think plan just trying to remove the
wretched smell from our house. Yeah, everybody makes sure you
see that picture. You need the podcasting 2.0 compatible app
form. And we will see you next Friday right here for
podcasting. 2.0 is board meeting.
You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 visit podcast
index.com. For more information, go podcast
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