podcasting 2.0 for June 25 2021, Episode 43 What are they
building? Oh yeah that question and many more shall be answered
today during our board meeting of podcasting 2.0 it's open
source everybody's welcome. Come on in the door is wide open
chairs are ready for you, as we figure out and discuss and
prognostic eyes that means about podcast index.org and everything
that goes on at podcast index dot social I'm Adam curry in
Austin, Texas and in Alabama, the man who always delivers five
nines uptime my friend on the other end game Jones.
You say prognosticators. Yes, I'm
like that I just came out like Well, I don't know what I said.
Hey,
what up? What up,
bro? Yeah, word up, bro. We have almost not spoken this week. I
think.
I know. It's kind of weird.
Yeah. Well, it's I'm now I'm I am really in the middle of boxes
now. Finally. In the studio as Let me see Monday. Yeah, Monday
we leave. We go to the new the new casa.
It's imminent. It's imminent.
What do you mean eminent? Your move? Oh, no, it's no, it's
happening. Yes, it's happening. But man, I thought Still, we
were pretty much minimalist. But if we look at Ben and Tina is if
we look at Adams stuff, which Tina collectively calls your
wires.
And everything's a wire.
Everything has a wire attached to it, you know, like, I wanted
to have the wire stuck into the device rather than go to some
wire box and have to find it.
And there was some study done co gotchas thing I saw maybe a year
ago. And it was I don't know where it was. I don't remember
the details. But all I remember was they, they they took a bunch
of wires and stuff and just left them alone. And they would
tangle themselves. No. Like That was the whole study was to see
it like and the conclusion was wires will always self tangle.
It was like some sort of cool theory experiment. Yeah.
And yeah, it kind of makes sense. I guess. They are alive.
Then. They have a life of their own. Yeah, some of them walk
away. You can't find it. You know, you know where you put it
and it just walks away. I've got an ordinate amount of ham radio
gear. Now I
bet you gearhead ham radio gear heads, man, you can't have just
one song. Oh
no, I've got two meter rigs. I've got my first you know, the
all band rig which is 100 watt. I think it's a nice break. It's
a break. It's 30 pounds. And I've got antenna tuners and
wires and oh my god. It's just nuts.
You don't have time for you for much ham radio these days.
I haven't had time but I mean the pandemic would have been
perfect. But we we started doing podcasting 2.0 and we only
really just moved into this house two years ago and even
though I had a like a mask put in in the back not a full on
pylon mask but something I could easily attach something else to.
I never never strung up any antenna.
Never got to it. Well, you're actually saving the world now
instead of pretending
that's good.
I haven't played that in such a long time. Hold on. hams will
save the world Yes, we need to listen to the whole thing. Bruce
parents, everybody now here we have ham radio guys. Ham
radio is the public service network of last resort. When the
apocalypse comes where the guys who are going to save the world.
Right, right. Yeah, pandemic
hit flip on the two meter band. All I got is one guy going like
test mic test. Stupid ham. CQ. CQ. CQ. Yeah. Not a lot of CQ.
And going on on the local repeaters. Ah, so before we get
started, I feel kind of bad. About our last show. Yeah. And
well, I was I was bitching about about my move and, and that
Martin had been a friend Martin had been dragged down into, you
know, he also bought a house. He's he proposed to his fiance.
Yeah, basically, he's like, we've lost him. He's gone. We'll
never see him again.
He made him feel so bad about himself that he open sources
software and hit the deck.
Well, I'm gonna make I'm out. Now, I don't know. Did he
release an upgrade right after we released the show, which is
fantastic. Then he went ahead and the open source the whole
thing and we have a little little present for him. You know
what's really hot, open source. Send your pull request. Now.
Pull Requests engine pull request. Dame Jennifer hero,
heroine of podcasting 2.0
I mean, that just brings back every memory of one 800 number.
People even remote I mean, that's not even a thing anymore.
I don't think it is in Europe.
Europe is still is still got a lot of phones. Excellent. Yeah,
the advertise it on TV after 1am. Yeah, they got the softcore
kind of video and then the numbers call me. Are you alone?
Baby? I gotta play it one more time just just for the effect
for myself. Yeah, you
know what's really open source? Send your pull request now.
Well, that gets that one gets me since
we're doing it. We might as well remind everybody, this is a
podcasting 2.0 compliant podcast. We expect you're
listening to this on a compatible podcast app. If not
go to new podcast apps.com Here's your cue to boost you
know you want to sexiest sexiest nerd show in the universe,
is it's the only redemption this show has is those jingles. Now
it was it would be mega nerd.
When someone like a Martin open sources, his whole project. What
does that say? As a developer, and we should ask him,
obviously, but it's more fun to talk behind his back. What? What
does that mean? What brings you to that point? As a developer,
do you think?
I think if you will, personally I think you can get you can say
two things. One of two things. He could say, some business
reason. So you've decided that the business model you had for
your product is not going to materialize the way you thought
it would. And you would be better off by open sourcing it
so that you can build a community around it. So that
would be like the Mozilla model. Where say, Well, okay, we're
gonna change gears here, we're gonna change direction, we're
gonna go from a we're gonna compete, we want to be able to
people to buy our web browser. And now we're going to flip over
to building an open source community around the browser, in
switch sort of switch models. I think you could do it that way.
Or as a on a smaller scale you can I think somebody like us, or
Martin or get Laramie, or cast upon here, they, you sort of go
into it with the idea that eventually you probably are
going to do it. I don't know if Martin thought that way. But I
feel like you probably did, it's not something that you just wake
up one day and say, Oh, I'm going to throw this up on
GitHub. Like you don't just do that. He typically probably had
some inkling already that it was not going to be a closed system.
And so you will, you're already sort of mentally prepared to, to
make this switch. He may say I'm totally wrong. But those are,
those are the two ways that I come to it usually, like,
typically I will, if I know ahead of time I buy I'm never
I'm never going to open sources or eventually AM. Because if you
go into it with the idea that you're never going to open
source it if you think it's going to be closed, just a just
a silent or not a solid but a proprietary product forever. You
make decisions that really come back to bite you in the rear
later. Oh, when you go to you have to do a lot of cleanup a
lot. Because I mean, things like hard coding stuff in there
in the code. Yeah, that no one can figure out later.
Yeah, well, and things like configuration files and how to
how to look where you put certain parameters and like, how
do you treat the environment, all these sorts of things, they
will come back to haunt you later on, if you don't sort of
think a little bit in that direction up front. So I mean,
it's hard enough to clean up the code. And the reason I haven't
released the API code, as open source is, you know, that was a
lot of that was fork lifted out of freedom controller, at least
on the aggregator side, and I had this other project that I
had done, that was partially open source, where I get the API
part, or the rest part and merge those two together. So they were
both previously open sourced. And even them both being open
source before, is still going to be a lot of cleanup to have to
go through and do it. Right. So yeah, I mean, you gotta you got
to look for stuff because if you if you roll it out there, you'll
you'll end up getting things like the dreaded GitHub, notice
an email that says, hey, just a heads up. You have hard coded s3
credentials in your
scan for that.
Yeah, they did happen so often it's easy to forget, wow, he put
something in here for testing, you know, over here, right?
Well, it's kind of interesting the way you characterize it in
the very beginnings, we just started the show, because for
me, it did have a little bit of a vibe of, alright, here, it
isn't just open sourcing this thing. I got I got stuff to do.
I mean, and I'm just I'm just telling you, my first impression
is it's based on nothing. It's just like, Oh, I think it's
good. I don't know.
Some some, sometimes you look at your own project, and you say,
I'm, I'm struggling to find the time to put into it that I want.
That's what I think. Yeah. Okay, that sounds good. All right.
Yeah.
It's not like you're giving up on it. But you, you're hoping
that somebody else can, can take it further and learn from it.
You just want to give back so to speak. And rather than sitting
on this,
I think it's a family. It's a fantastic gift. I mean, holy
crap.
Yeah. 100%. That's a huge deal, because he's implemented so many
2.0 features. Yeah, it will face Facebook could definitely pick
up some of that stuff and learn from it. Yeah. I'm serious.
They're all react, they invented react, and he had all his stuff
done in react. And he's a great programmer. They can take some
of his like transcript stuff, they could pull it right out of
his code and tweak and shove it right into Facebook.
I sure hope Facebook considers using the namespace. I mean,
they're starting from scratch, why would they not? I mean, what
penalty is there? Besides, you know, obviously, you have to
code in the features, but it would it'll, I think the way I
the way I view pod friend and Curio caster and other web apps
in general, it's really a nice experience desktop. Yeah,
especially with chapters and that stuff. It's it really comes
to life.
When I was thinking about Facebook the other day, I think
it was last night, I was listening to pod land. And
Cridland actually changed my mind a little bit on Facebook,
on their entry into the game, because he was saying that they
probably are going to be targeting new people that have
never listened to podcasts before, like boomers, you know
that that group, and non technical Boomer age people that
probably just don't, they don't know anything about podcasts,
they don't listen to them. And I can see that. I mean, that makes
a lot of sense. If that's the case, that brings in a whole lot
more listeners to the, to the ecosystem.
Yeah, I'm good with that. It is kind of interesting to see how
and I'm gonna say it again, you cannot monetize the network. And
this is not going to work for Apple. It's not going to work
for for Spotify. And now Amazon has purchased. What is it? art?
19? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I've got Bernard 19. They do hosting,
right.
Yeah, I think at least at some point in time, they may still do
it. They hosted New York, some of the New York podcast.
And we'll see we'll see how open they all want to be Apple is
clearly given up. They just don't they just don't care.
Barletta said, he posted a thing the other day and said, we'll
hear about that. This Morning about the art 19 thing. He said,
Will this drive Apple and Google to acquire hosting companies?
I don't think No, No, No, No way. No way. No, that's a pipe
dream.
Nope. In fact, was already got a hose
there already. I was already hosting it. What, what it's
going to do is they're going to drive more people towards their
subscription content and away from whatever the iTunes charts
just won't matter that much. I don't think.
Yeah, I agree. I agree and go and Google just doesn't care.
That's podcasts, or podcasts or just a side gig for them. They
don't. I mean, they this is this is the typical thing with Google
they just built they build it. And then they forget about it.
And it just sits there and runs.
Now when I say you can't monetize the network, you really
have to understand the media landscape. How that's changed.
This is why I don't believe in podcast discovery. This is not
like a YouTube. It's not like, it's not like anything else.
It's it's truly decentralized by nature. So even the idea of a
top 10 list is crazy. Makes no sense. It just doesn't. So award
shows all these things. And then there's a lot of money being
because, you know, I would say 90% of pod news is about content
stuff. And to me, it's like everyone's Look, it's the
business is just like record business. Everyone's looking for
a hit, you get one hit and you can finance you know, 10 other
shows and and that's the business and you'll be doing
that for a long time and it's gonna be harder and harder to
get Get a hit, because what is a hit? When you have 4 million
advertised podcasts of which 600,000 are real, that's still,
you know, you're just not going to get the type of numbers you
used to get this whole idea the whole notion of how advertising
is done everything is based on the old medium right down to the
CPM, you know, the cost cost per 1000. But that that's, that's
not appropriate anymore. And maybe advertising itself is not
going to be appropriate because of the niche audiences which
will keep things sustainable, but even even television is now
moving to apps and it's Yeah, it may be on the Roku but really
it's just online is everyone's gonna be streaming everyone's
going to be a quote unquote podcast that's just what it's
gonna be and I'll compete with no agenda will compete with
Rachel Maddow. Seriously, that that's that's where it's going.
That's where it's going towards is no one can afford the
infrastructure anymore trying to compete for a 200,000 listeners
during a cable news show. Afternoon, no, viewers.
And the reason I was laughing is because there's not really a
competition.
Thank you. And we know, Rachel would trounce me. We all know
that. Sure.
Okay. Well, the other thing he said was what what will be the
first deck? What will be the first stag to offer a Spotify
Sai camp competitor? streaming ad insertion competitor? I
would. I would say if anybody out of that. It may be Amazon.
But that is such a big question mark. Because I don't I think
the whole the whole thing here is nobody knows if any of this
stuff even makes money. Like I'm talking about decent money
enough to make it worth it. As Spotify has spent hundreds of
millions of dollars. Yeah, buying all this gear and buying
all these companies and all this stuff? And nobody knows is this
even going to pay off? So I would have taken a huge risk.
I look at it this way. 85% of all internet advertising goes to
two companies. It goes to Google and it goes to Facebook. Neither
of these have even shown any type of advertising strategy for
podcasts. None. Because they you think they haven't looked at it?
You think that they didn't see you know all the noise and
think, oh, we can go and grab that industry real easy. I'm
pretty sure they looked at it when we can't sell ads on this.
Yeah, for a whole bunch of reasons. One of which is
programmatic you just can't guarantee a brand safe
environment. So you're always going to be limited by brands
that will take a risk.
What that tells me Okay, that's a perfect opportunity to talk
about the call her daddy podcast. Yes.
What did she What did she get? $60 million.
A reporter 60 million? Yes. 16 million, which is 14 million
less than her male counterpart which is totally
misogynist. Yep, absolutely. Spotify bunch of dicks.
That's right, literally. The spot I tried to I was gonna mock
this podcast, I wanted to get ISOs from it. I wanted to get
clips from it. It's unlistenable. It's it's the
biggest steaming pile of garbage I've ever I've ever tried to
listen to. And you brought a clip I met this is the first
this is the intro. That's how far I got. So I want you to play
as much of this as you can stomach and then I want to make
a point about it.
Hello, Daddy gang. Before we get into this episode, I want to
remind you that on July 21, the only place that you will be able
to listen to this podcast call her daddy is on Spotify. So if
you are someone that doesn't listen on Spotify right now,
take a minute, download the Spotify app. If you already have
it. That's great. Go on to Spotify. Type and call her daddy
and press the Follow button. That's the same as subscribe,
follow, turn on notifications, and then moving forward every
single Wednesday. That is where you will listen to your favorite
fucking podcast. That is where you will masturbate. And that is
where you will feel happy. Okay, only on Spotify and let me be
very clear. It is free. It's free. It's free. I don't know
why. If you thought you had to pay for it. You don't. It's
free. It's free. It's free. You do not need premium you don't
need shit. You just need the app and you can listen to call her
daddy. Join the fuckin orgy bitches. Spotify. starting July
21 is the only place you can listen to this podcast. Right
now. I'm having it be everywhere so you guys can slowly
transition again. No dad left behind. Go to Spotify. Press
follow. And let's begin the best year of the data.
Well, this is a weird deja vu for me when we started cod show
later me vo we had a stable of talent and we had we went out we
did contracts with our version of the Rogen and Sophia with an
F A contracts only we set them up with an LLC show them how to
run the business we help them with the books with some tax
advice and to get their own CPAs some did not against our advice
shares in the company I mean we really we really tried to bring
them in and we and I made the same basic decisions we had our
version with match Weinstein the bloated lesbian who was still
she match may still listen to the show, I imagine is a bit
coiner
she's no big no agenda listener
I hope so. She was I hope I hope she still is that we don't think
we agree on everything the bloated lesbian and I but I
think I consider that to be a very good acquaintance and had
fun walk working with her we had dawn and drew we had Marcus
couch you know with the metal music and we had we did all this
stuff. Everything was done and and even investors like oh yeah,
they even got this this character this match Weiss
excuse me match Weinstein's real not a character, okay. And it
was it was fun, it was funky, but it really didn't bring
people indoors. So you still have this gradual slow rise over
time. And while that's slow, you notice that you really can't get
the big advertisers because of it turns out investors think the
bloated lesbians, hilarious BMW not so. And so they hear you.
And then at a certain point, we're doing podcast where we're
unboxing stuff. I'm like, Okay, I'm done. So now what now we're
just taking money from a car company or motorcycle company,
and an unboxing. Now, it was a great unboxing the crate popped
open like David Copperfield, the whole thing was cool. But it was
it was basically an infomercial. And I just saw, you know, then
you get the infighting. I'm not promoted, why do I not have the
ads? Now? It's, it's probably different. But you said we have
now two people who have big salaries, the others are getting
a lot less no doubt that by itself creates animosity within
the ranks.
Okay, so you had Obama's the Obamas that had exclusives? I
know some people are. I know, James said that. They told him
that it was a windowing thing. And it was timed and it was
always going to release. Who knows? Who knows. But those two
things have been spun out. And they're now non exclusives
anymore. The exclusives you have at Spotify are now Rogen, which
I'm just gonna lay this out, literally, it's Rogan, who is a
guy who interviews people, while while he's hammered. You've got
just break up, which is basically the the podcast
equivalent of Us Weekly. You have called her daddy, which you
just experienced. And that is only I'm serious. I got 20
minutes into it. And I was just like, I can't handle this show
floors. It's the worst basement level tripod
I've ever heard. That's objective. And you know me, it's
like, I don't care. I really don't even quality doesn't
matter to me from me from my from my own stuff it does. But I
think if there's an audience, there's an audience now, is it
worth $60? million? No, of course not.
very unlikely. But the point I'm trying to make though is that
they have that's their stable now. That's their lineup of
their big dog podcast that they've had that they've got.
No, that's their that's their marketing budget. I don't think
they gave they don't give a shit about these people.
Oh, no, no, no, no, that's what I'm saying. They they don't they
don't. But what they're doing is they're building now they're
building their brand on this brand around around this. We
didn't the F word. Exactly. Exactly. They're building
they're building an around a very targeted because in here
and here's the point. That's probably the only thing that can
make this probably the only stable content they can take and
maintain in the in the silo. That makes money.
Yes, very good. That's a good point. That's a good point.
Because you get brand brand safety is boring. So you have to
go extreme. You have to have these edgy shows like this. And
in order to maintain their exclusivity, because they're the
only ones whose followers are dedicated enough to follow them
to a new app and you saw it. It's like, Oh, I'm gonna remind
you free, free, free, you know, it's free. It's free. It's free.
She said Like 10 times, and we know from the just break up,
podcast when in when exclusive and they did their little, hey,
we're going to Spotify intros for two months leading up to it.
You know, remember that they had sort of said that, hey, the
Spotify eyes onboarding team told us we need to emphasize
that the app is free. You know, they said that that was part of
the gig that they got to tell your audience is free, it's
free, it's free. So there, they have now, in my mind, they have
now shrunk to the lowest common denominator here. They they're
going to get cheap audiences that will only come if it's
free. And using bargain basement content.
There's an interesting analog I read yesterday about between
podcasting and Bitcoin. And I think it was the the coin desk
update dead Lw everybody.
And he said,
what he what he found to be kind of sad. And he reports on macro
markets, but Bitcoin specifically, this kind of
stuff. He says, Bitcoin is sadly moving from Gonzo, referring to
Max Keiser to Goldman Sachs, referring to, you know, the the
big July, June 21 meeting or whatever with Ilan and jack
Dorsey and Kathy woods, and everyone's getting together and
their corporate tising. And so that idea from Gonzo to Goldman
Sachs, and I think it's a trap. And podcasting definitely fell
into it is the nature of Bitcoin will not allow it to be Goldman
Sachs defied I just it can't actually happen with podcasting,
the entire industry, and including most of the people
that that I know, became corporate and comfortable,
comfortably corporate. And, and you know, and with corporate
comes the whole infrastructure. That's why you have meaningless
award shows, and I don't want to demean people celebrating
creative content, but come on, we all know how it works. We
know who's invited, we know who the sponsors are. I mean, it's
the whole thing. Everything is based around everybody trying to
get a buck off of some advertiser, even if you're just
reporting on it. You're taking advertising money from the
people you're reporting on. I mean, that's what the whole
industry is. Whereas to me, podcasting is you got something
to say? You say it, if people start to show up, you start to
nurture that you build your tribe, you start to cross over
other people hear you. I think it's still very valid to go on
each other's podcasts. I think that's one of the strongest,
most effective things any, any podcaster can do is if it's if
it's appropriate for for your format. But having another
podcast or on in your genre as a guest or someone as a guest, who
also has a podcast is very powerful. That's like the power
of blog rolling. Now,
Andy, go ahead,
please.
Speaking of Dave Jackson, you're in your interview with him was
fantastic. It was so much fun to do that.
And you know, and I realize, yeah, it all came back was very
comfortable speaking with Dave, because we've we've talked a lot
over the years.
Yeah. And that guy's a good interviewer.
He is and he also knows the questions to ask, he knows what.
He knows his audience very well. And I love that he just
implement stuff. It's like, Okay, I'm good. I'm gonna do
this. And he's up and running. Right. everything's working now.
I think I boosted him. I know it works. Yeah. From my end. Yeah.
At least. Yeah.
Now he's, he's up and running. Yeah. And they love how he had
never heard his show before. So I love how except when it tested
the other day. But I love how he took what he had you as a guest.
And then he said, here's how, here's live. Listen to me, do
this. And here's how here's why I made these decisions. On where
I placed the ad on here's how I was able to sweeten the deal to
make this guest Come on. I was I did some research beforehand. I
know he doesn't like this. I know he does like to like this.
And like, just went through the whole process of how to get a
guest on how to add an interview on it was most top notch, man.
Maybe he does that all the time. And I'm just not, you know,
listener of the show, and I don't know, but that was that
was high quality stuff. And he gave me the ability to get to
very nice ISOs
ISOs Okay, he would be playing these now. So
Nelson to the industry.
Well, and so this is just the way the media landscape is and I
think a lot of people aren't seeing the forest for the trees.
Everything is going down. All the television numbers, your
Hollywood is gone, it's gone. It's now streaming app
companies. And and they're going to have their own challenges.
None of them is profitable peacock in context of NBC,
Comcast, but you know, there's there's a lot that still has to
be built up and understood about how audiences are interacting.
And if I just look at my own podcast, I know that there's
people who listen on a variety of apps. I know there's people
who listen write in a web browser, I mean, there's so it's
all over the place. But it's, it's a community, it's our
community. And it's, it's never going to be I just think the
days of 100 million people listening to one person are gone
forever. That's the internet did that to us. That's that was kind
of the point. But we're still somehow struggling to cobble it
all together and say, Look, we have a billion dollar industry
bullshit. Everyone has little pieces of it. And those little
pieces, I think you're right, will never add up to enough to
make it viable for any large corporation to put a lot of time
and resources into it. I see this with no agenda, social calm
the mastodon server. So we get up to like 20,000 members, and
shit starts to Creek. And it's not the technology. It's the
amount of user support is the amount of hand holding? I don't
think the podcasting companies that are in business today. I
don't think they should really want to be too big. It's no use,
you have to spend, I don't know their business Exactly. But I
can only imagine how much extra costs they've gotten just from
having to take support calls over misunderstanding why Apple
isn't updating, you know, all of this stuff. And so we locked
down our mastodon at 20,000 said, Look, you can federate and
you can still follow us and join in. But we just can't do it. And
it's not about money you can never send in enough to I mean,
do you know how many people report stuff and have problems
logging in and lost their two factor authentication? No,
actually, I don't have to ask you, you know exactly what it
is, with a fraction of that just on podcast index.
That was a that makes me think that the Facebook thing that
might, they might be pretty strategic in what they're doing.
Because it is so tribal in the way they're doing it with that,
you know, I don't like it. I mean, I don't like the whole
idea of centralized social media that I mean, I hate that
concept. But that regardless of my own personal sensibilities
about it, it may be a good, a good idea for them to actually
get in that game, because they're already set up with sort
of, what do you call them? silos? siloed? communities,
tribes? What?
groups Facebook groups various Yeah,
and that kind of thing? Maybe it's, it's a good entry point
for them, if that's
how they're building it. And I have, I haven't seen it, I don't
have Facebook anymore. I don't care, either in this context, if
they're doing it in the in a group setting where, you know,
that's kind of your pet tribe is a good, good enough word. They
could they could probably be successful with that. But again,
it's, it's a silo now, what we want. Yeah, just to reiterate,
we want to have comments at the bare minimum comments that work
between apps. If we do that, game over, game over, everyone
will go for that. What's the status of the map to the matrix
server idea? Do we ever follow through on that
long then I'm gonna do that hopefully this weekend because
what I've seen is when when you set something up, shit starts to
happen.
Yeah, and I felt that too. It's people people need this line,
people need the okay to move ahead and I can understand that
of course, because you need because what, we're all sort of
a hive mind here and we're trying to move together, move
forward together. And so it really needs somebody needs to
say okay, here I'm going to do this it doesn't always have to
be made, you know, other people do stuff but if you if somebody
throws it out there says okay, I'm going to take the ball and
run with this thing. Then everybody sort of squirrel goes
in that direction. And that's a good thing. So I think I need to
fire that up because Roy ever breeze paint him and I was like,
Hey, are you you know, have you done anything with matrix and he
said no, not yet. And I said well, I think I'm gonna go ahead
and fire up a sir Good just good luck with something good good.
I'm sure he was on board with that.
Yeah, he said he said rock on let's do it. And and that said
that Well, before I get off that off this play, Facebook podcast
conspiracy, okay.
So listeners will be able to play a send Facebook, virtual
currency. This was interesting. They have a virtual currency
stars. To creators in live audio rooms is kind of Adam talking to
you here. Zuckerberg said his company will not take a cut on
the creator revenue until 2023. So there's some kind of virtual
currency called stars. On podcast 2.0. You said what?
sets? Right? sets? Yeah. This is the same letters B with those
same letters with an R. R stands for ripoff, by the way, just
that point. This is stars. If you kind of twist around the
letters, it's SATs. Same thing that Curry is working on, don't
you think?
What was devore? x answer?
He's like, Yeah, Yeah,
Yeah, probably. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, it's funny stars has
been around for a while. And that's their little point
system.
But so this, this whole idea of collectively moving in a
direction? The my biggest gripe this week, is that this was the
week for everybody to pull out their various versions on social
media. Have will, nobody's implemented it yet. So we're not
going to do it. That like that. Oh, yeah. I
saw a couple of these. Yeah, yeah. That's the fetus. That's
double
this. Okay. So simple cast, responded evidence, basically
with the exactly the same wording to Stephen B. And to
Dred Scott who both to ping them asking them to support a certain
podcast in 2.0 namespace feature. And they replied with
this, pretty much the exact wording we do not currently
support podcasting 2.0 namespace, mainly because it has
yet to be adopted by any of the major listening apps. Number
one, that's not true.
No, B is completely untrue. overcast is in the group.
Well, overcast is doing implementation now. But podcast
attic, which has almost the same amount of market share is
overcast. They he has, Xavier has already implemented about
four of the features. Yeah. And so that that's on the face of it
is not even true. But more you know, more importantly, that's
not how any of this ever gets done. like nobody asks, nobody
waits for, for another person to implement something before they
implement something, or nothing ever gets done. Because that is
circular reasoning. And if everybody waited for everybody
else to do things before they did things didn't, nobody would
do anything. And we don't just sit here and stare at each
other. And so the the idea is the way you know, the way open,
decentralized processes work, which RSS is the granddaddy of,
you know is in is in the in the cloud, the way that these things
move forward, is that somebody has a good idea. They, they
write up the spec and the framework for it. They, they
they do some reference implementations to show how it
works and to show, you know, the benefits of it. And then they
evangelize it. And they convince other people that it's good
enough that they should spend their developer time getting
getting on board with it as well.
What I mean the irksome part of that answer is first of all,
here's two of your customers. Stephen and who was the other
one? Grab, grab Scott, two of your customers who you're saying
no to Okay, that's that's a business decision. But the thing
that irks me is, none of the big apps have implemented it. Okay.
So, and by the way, I respect that and, and I know a lot of
time goes into doing new releases and features, etc. But
that answer shows me that you just just want people to ride
right by you. And that's, that's IBM saying, okay, cute, that
little personal computer. That'll never be anything that
that's what that sounds like, to me.
It's indicative of a bigger issue, where people have
forgotten where the stuff that we have came from. And it's,
it's the same you see this in, in art, and jingles and things
like that, which would, you know, is isn't is an art form.
You see this in all these creative works that appear on
the internet, the internet has cheapened things to this to this
to the point where I think a lot of people don't consider that
they were actually created by human beings. Like you can
browse the internet for, you know, a couple of hours. And
you're seeing 1000s and 1000s of pieces of art or artwork, that
even even small little snippets of web pages that have been
stitched together to make something look beautiful sounds
video pieces of video. You're seeing All of this content, in
every single bit of that content, every bit of it was
created by a human being in some shape or form or fashion. And we
have been desensitized to that, to the standpoint, to the point
where we think that this stuff just sort of spontaneously
generates. It just happens, like the internet, like it's
evolution, you know, like, well, it's the internet just creates
this crap for us. But that's not what happens. The way industries
move forward and advance is by people doing things. We do
something over here, then an app does something over there, then
a hosted hosting company does something over there. And we all
connect, we interconnect. Remember, the first law of rules
for standard makers, we is interop is all that matters, we
all interrupt together. And advancement takes place in the
industry moves forward one notch. That's how it happens. It
doesn't happen through everybody sitting back and looking at the
tube at two big corporations and saying, Man, I wish they would
do something. Nothing is ever going to happen that way. It's
not in in the hosting companies have that have adopted podcast,
podcasting, the podcast namespace, those hosting
companies are using it today as a selling advantage to get more
customers. Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Other hosts need to understand that if you if you're waiting,
if you're waiting, is all of a sudden you're gonna wake up and
people are leaving and you're gonna be behind the eight ball.
You're gonna get your ass kicked. Yeah, that's that's just
that's that that whole argument is complete. It shows a broader
what you know what it says? It says that, it tells me that the
podcast industry is a group of people that have been
conditioned to think of themselves as observers and not
participants, and some
subjective subjective to other forces to them. And they,
they are they are people in the podcasting industry. I'm talking
about the people in the podcast industry, because it's all
native people, the people in the podcast industry, look at
themselves as, as thing as people that things happen to,
instead of people that go and do things themselves.
Wow. That's a very that's, it's and it's interesting in that
context that coming out of France, we got cast upon, you'd
expect the socialist to be the laziest people ever, but to
actually have way ahead of the game, I'd say exactly. Speaking
of any progress, I know you got a lot of your plate, but any
progress on on our install.
Well, I went to important the feed, and it broke. So
everything, it just bombed out. There's something wrong. So
Ben's looking at it. Okay, he's gonna he's gonna let me know.
That's why it's beta. That's cool.
No, it's alpha.
It's beta. But that's why in France, that's alpha. Oh, I
heard something on the thing was pod news that Stacy from NPR is
going to anchor?
Yes. you'd actually told me that in an email a couple of weeks
ago. Well,
thanks for the Thanks for letting me know.
Well, I was I didn't know if I supposed to say anything. So
okay, she cuz I emailed her about something. And she said,
Well, you know, I'm not gonna, I'm actually leaving. But she's
going to a cast, which is good. That's good for a cast.
What doesn't that mean that she can nudge them about a couple of
things?
Yeah, hope so. That would be great. Because a cast has given
us the cold shoulder to so they need to stay at stake. We got
it. We got the we got somebody on the inside. Yeah,
yeah. We got a shill this year. Yeah, we got a show on the
inside. Okay. No, no. No, I have a question. for about a week
now. I've been trying to understand what's going on.
Could you please explain to me what the heck are Brian of
London and Alex gates. What are they doing? And why are they
vomiting it on my feed all day long? What is happening? What is
the and it looks like? I mean just is it looks like something
with pod Ping. It looks like something that is part of the
structure of hive. And Brian is championing everything in fixing
stuff on the fly with baling wire and chewing gum. And then
Alex gates looks at it and says Dude, that's baling wire and
chewing gum. Let me add some paper clips. And then they wrap
it up with some gaffer tape and then they argue about it. What's
going on.
That's why do you need me to explain it?
Well, and then all sudden, like we need a server like Hold on a
sec. What's going on?
$250 months. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, no, no, it's
it's, he pretty much summed it up. So what what happened last
week, or last weekend, I think I think it was maybe Saturday of
last weekend. pod paying broke. And so what happened was, I said
piping consists of two main parts on the, on the central OS
part of it. There's a web front end that accepts HTTP requests.
And then there's the hive writer, which takes the URLs
that come in and writes them onto the hive blockchain.
Okay, got it.
And so there's the two pieces are interconnected through a
through a socket. So the it's called a z mq or 00 q socket
zero mq socket. I think it stands for zero managed key or
something. So it's a special type of socket, where so
blueberry would send a URL notification to pod pain,
piping, gets it can talk sends it over the socket to the hive
writer. What was and typically what happens is, if the hive
writer is alive and responding, then the front end will take the
URL and discard it from the queue. So it just forgets it.
It's like, okay, I handed it off to the hive writer. I've read
her it's your nag is your baby. Now your responsibility under so
it takes it out of the queue. What was happening last
Saturday, was that the hive writer started throwing some
weird error. And it was like the user that you're posting with
does not have posting authority.
High Power high wages.
you've exhausted your hive. And you're now have you're now up
the creek like you. You can't do you can't post Okay, you can't
post Yeah. And so, and I had been doing this for like six
hours. Oops. And normally, what you would expect with would be
that the front end would be saying okay, well, nothing, you
know, it's not working. So I'm hanging on to these. I'm gonna
keep trying.
Oh, it was going poof, poof, poof, poof, poof,
gone away? Oh, yes. It was smoking every one of them. And
the so because the hive writer only hands back. Okay. It
doesn't actually hand back an error message. So this has been
the discussion since then is should a few things should
number one, why did it happen to be in the first place? That's
what Brian has been on. Ron was very concerned about this thing.
And sure, and rightly so. And so he is, he's been on a mission to
try to figure out talking to developers, why it happened. And
then how to finish re engineering the hive writer so
that it is resilient to this thing. There's a couple of ways
you could think that this would go. You could say well, the hive
writer if he if it fails to write a URL to the blockchain
cache, it shouldn't, he should respond until the front end,
right? Err, I don't I personally don't like that. To me, each
piece of the puzzle needs to be completely independent in
eponymous where it can handle its own failures.
Right so so it should it should maybe report back something but
I got it I've saved it as soon as I get my oats back my old
power wheelies then I can then I'll post it.
Right so you haven't you you have to think what do I want?
When the front end and off a URL to the hive writer right? What
do you want the response to mean? Does it when you sit when
there if the response is okay, does that mean okay I got it or
does that mean okay i did with it what I what I wanted to do
with it
not everyone knows what the note it should always be abort retry
fail,
enhance zoom read it and it just it should just respond back. No,
no more oatmilk or whatever. So it is like what do you want it
to do? Do you want that and air that message to indicate fail I
failed to do my part or failed or you or something went wrong
with trying to do your part right? And I think personally my
my feeling is each that that okay or error, error message in
the handle to just mean Okay, I got it. I got what you sent sent
me because that's All the front end is responsible for anyway,
is I just gonna have to get this information to you now what you
do with it and ultimately what happens to it after that I don't
want to be responsible for. So that's what, that's what Ron's
trying to figure out that and
so do we know. And that may actually belong on a GitHub that
drawn out technical conversation. I'm just, I mean,
I almost like, I really want to just mute but I don't. I'm
missing other stuff. You know, it's just too much like all, I
don't want to complain, because I thought about it. You know,
it's what it is, it's organic, we'll just see, we'll see what
happens. But do we know the actual cause of the failure? Do
we know what the issue was?
When Brian says that he knows what it was. But I'm not sure
that me or Alice understand what he does, he hasn't translated it
into non hive. So we don't understand exactly what that
what that means. Okay. And, and he's, he's being responsible, in
the end, trying to figure out, Okay, how to, I just want to
make sure this thing never happens again. Sure. And my
recommendation was, okay, if the failures happen on the, on the
posting side, that's fine. The way, the way that you need to
combat that is, is through persistence. So when, when so
and the way this was all developed was I wrote the front
end, and Brian wrote the back end, and then Alex gave him a
lot of help to help him structure is Python, and he's
gotten the rising and stuff. So Alice is playing a real
consultant role, which is what he's fantastic. That's
fantastic to watch. He's also that he's like the Soup Nazi of
consultants.
No code for you. You can tell he's been a consultant for
something to say, This is stupid stuff.
That part I kind of enjoy. I kind of enjoyed the back and
forth. It's quite a drama that's unfolding. So just just to wind
this, and by the way, I love that the doing this, obviously,
is very important. What, anyone who hasn't seen it yet go to pod
pod ping dot watch. And just see, everything comes through
podcasts updating in real time. And know that that's powered by
oats. What was the server for? Why did we need another server?
That's like the Belgian screwdriver, like, just hammer
it? Was it throw more iron at it?
That's that's, well, that's the idea that will you know, when
one day we may need or our own API, how they Oh, okay. We
should be a participant in this.
Oh, I see. I see. Okay. Yeah, it's probably it's probably a
good idea. Yes. Right. But are you telling me that I'm running
a part of the world's reserve currency Bitcoin on a Raspberry
Pi, but hive needs $150 a
month server? Oh, four terabytes of disk space is what it was,
again, like, four cores or some crap like that? Yeah, no,
really? Oh, it gets a bit deep. So
do you actually, are you mining high while you're participating
in the network? Or?
I don't know. You may you may be contributing to global warming.
Yes. Maybe contributing to, to El Salvador's volcanic activity
with this thing.
Holy crap. That's great. All right. Cool. Well, thank you. So
I kind of knew what was going on. So but everything's working,
we're just trying to mitigate that and fortify and make it
better and make it bulletproof. And, and understand where we may
go in the future.
So Brian said that, I think what he said, If I can understand
bronze speak, is that one of the the API server that he was using
for posting freaked out in some way. And his algorithm for
choosing a backup for failing over was not was not good. So it
just stuck. And so I think, I think it's an easy fix. So okay,
famous last word. Okay. And it's always dangerous to interpret
brawn of London and try to communicate him his intent to
other people. So I'm that's got to be a caveat here
is a beautiful guy. I love the enthusiasm. And he reminds me a
lot of young Adam before I gave up and said, I really can't
code. I really have no business to do this.
He can code he's he's been out of the game for so long. He's
having to catch up. Yeah, sure.
Now speaking of such it is my understanding that we discovered
the source of the 502 errors.
Oh, you Tom that Eric.
Well, was it was it a 502 error that was showing up on our on
our on our AP And that was something that was happening in
the background that Aaron's working on?
Well, no. Okay, so you're
conflating two things to five oh, twos.
There's the, there's the 502 we're off off in the weeds here.
Um, I feel like we're gonna have to play a clip here something to
break this crap up. But 502 on Eric's side for the image
server. And so he said that he found that issue and it was
something with the way he was handling.
He's not typically like a 502 would be returned from
CloudFlare is not where you get the 502. From?
Will any any HTTP server gonna return a public service
unavailable? For some?
I thought was it service or gateway? I always thought it was
gateway could be
gateway, some, something like that. It's probably there's
probably a reverse proxy on dreamhost. side, so it's
probably just okay. It's, it's miscommunicating. They're back
to you. Yeah. So the origin servers failing for some reason,
and it comes through as a follow to date. On our side. I think I
figured out what our issue was. And this is a this is something
we can talk about, which is the tracking URL now. So we, we've
had various people like Mitch and john Spurlock and others,
from time to time want to track what's going on in our database.
So they just want to sit back as a third party and and just use
us as essentially the aggregator. And they just want
to say, Okay, let me know when something changes. And I'll just
follow along right with you. This
is the new items feed.
Yeah, yeah. Like, and so there's a whole batch of, of different
endpoints accomplished this.
can already guess what happened?
Oh, I would like to hear your get
someone like me built an app that checks every 15 seconds.
That's a great guess. But no. The so there's a there's a few
of these endpoints. There's a reason. And these are great.
You're gonna love this. There's a recent feeds endpoint. And
there's a feeds recent endpoint. Recent podcast recent, okay. Oh,
yeah. Yeah, actually, essentially, there's a recent
podcast and a podcast recently, though, and that's dumb. But
anyway, it just like side effect of how this thing evolved over
time. And the reason feeds in point, it tells you every time a
feed updates, the recent episodes in point as you to
every every new episode, these were, these are okay, but there
was somebody else, another person that I've been talking to
over email that needed sort of all that into one thing in one
block of data. They wanted feeds in episodes all in one blob.
Okay, so I started working on a on a, on a new endpoint, or
recent in his recent slash data. If you call the recent data
endpoint, you get that blob back, and it's got feeds and
episodes all in one batch. It's a heavy database call. So
because it keys on the items table, which is very where the
episodes are stored. It's a heavy call. And so it's hard to
get, it's hard to do a lot of filtering and that kind of stuff
on it. So it's really just a raw call, you just call reason data,
you get the full fire hose. And I created the endpoint, and
rolled it out to Mitch and john. And they were testing it. And it
was giving father to errors about once. Once every so often
interval, I don't even know how often it means like once every
30 minutes to an hour, maybe it was very random. And I could not
find any logging that supported what it was showing me what was
happening initially. So I think I thought I found finally
figured out by looking at CloudFlare. The way we have our
in our two front end API server set up is there's an API one and
API two, and their DNS Round Robin. And when that when you do
that, when you do a DNS Round Robin, the requests tend to be
sticky. That means that there's there will grow up over time and
affinity to choose one over the other for certain combinations
of calling, or of certain combinations of origin of
request and the endpoint that they're calling. So if I start
calling an API that has set up in this way, most load balancing
gateways that are most DNS, that was not a gateway, most DNS will
tend to resolve to the same host based on the same sort of
criteria, despite there being a rent
a random generator in there.
And there's not really random DNS is is more sticky than that.
Okay?
Well, of course, because of caching and all that
AGT, if you know how DNS works, client side is very similar to
that. So like, if you, you set a Primary and Secondary DNS server
on your, on your machine, a lot of people think that it will use
the primary and
it will your priority, if you do 1010, it'll, it'll choose one or
the other, I think, right?
Well, it, it will, it will use the primary until that one
fails, then it'll flip over to the secondary, but it won't flip
back. Okay. Like if the if the primary comes back online, it's
not going to switch back to the primary. So DNS tends to be
sticky, it sticks with the less successful thing, and it never
really wants to give it up.
So it was overloading one of the two servers.
It wasn't know what was happening was the the one of the
servers had a bad copy of the code.
Oh, man, obscure,
yet, I had evidently not, there had been a, I don't know what
happened, but one of them had a copy of the code with a typo in
it. And the is because I always upload to both at the same time,
one of them had had a bad copy of code. And so most of those
recent data endpoint calls were all getting served by by one of
the front ends, but every now and then it would hit the other
one. And it would fail on that. And it would fail two or three
times in a row and then flip back to the other one. And you'd
never you wouldn't see the problem again.
Okay, so if it fails a couple times, then eventually, the DNS
does flip back.
I'm not sure what their algorithm is. I don't know. I
don't know what they Wow. Okay. All right. Yeah, it took four
hours now.
Yeah, I want to, I just want to I don't know how much you've
seen. But I want everyone to know that Eric is building the
whole onramp jeans mom experience now in the urban
dictionary, I'll have you know. Nice. And, well, once once I'm
moved, you know, give me a week turn around. You know, then I
think Tina and I are going to start writing words for the
framework that he's built. Yeah, I'm very excited. And you can
tell the people like, Hey, we should we need something that
would make some new landing page.
I know. That's such an it's, it's necessary. Yeah,
we're getting there. We're getting there. That
Eric? is the one that said, Oh, no, I'm sorry. It was Alice
gates sent in the screenshot that only fans has a lightning
node man. Like man, open a channel that thing quick. We get
we get it we can try to charge super high routing fees.
I'm gonna I'm gonna make a couple of well prediction based
on some thoughts. And you might have read this morning. Tanzania
is now also considering adopting Bitcoin as a national currency.
And Paraguay, aren't they in Paraguay, Paraguay, also on the
list. And I'm pretty sure that they will at least be an
announcement who knows how long it will take before
implementation? I think that lightning connected through cash
app. So real Satoshi stuff. I think that'll be hooked up to
Twitter. I'm pretty I'm pretty sure that's coming in
announcement at least is coming. And when that happens. Oh, my
God. It's gonna be so dynamite.
Oh, yeah. That'd be cool.
Everybody will under you know, it's just the education. Yeah,
this is what I realize. I'm so impatient. But I think was it
was talking to Dave Jackson, and it was Michael malice and wanted
his show to
and that has been posted yet.
Yeah, yeah, it's posted. Okay, go back. Listen. Yeah, he's a
good guy. It was not so much podcasting. 2.0 and then I kind
of just went with his flow. Yeah. But obviously, I'd bring
it back Tom Woods I did at Tom Woods show. diner
that either Gala. slacker. Yeah. And Tom
Woods is great, because hey, can I ask your your audience
something Tom? He's like, sure. Would you please get a new
podcast app new podcast? app.com. Nice. Yeah, so this is
so the adoption is it's it seems to be happening. And I love
hearing you know, pod land or pod news. And now I'm hearing
James Cridland talk very casually about podcasting. 2.0
features as if you know, it's like it's the most normal thing
in the world. He's, you know, I don't hear the disdain Any more
for for Bitcoin or feigned disinterest, he seemed very
interested.
They invented feigned disinterest,
yeah, that is kind of that is kind of the Brits, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, you're right. Yeah.
Anyway, well,
hopefully he's boosting us when we talk about him.
Drain drain the bowl this morning. Here's your cue to
boost. You know, you want to
boost. Did you? Did you just say you drain the bowl?
Yeah. By the way, the only fans lightning node is just called
only fans. They missed the perfect opportunity to call it
the spank bank.
Tell me I'm wrong.
Yeah. Listen, those guys, their branding. So I wonder, I wonder
if if they'll integrate that? No, this. It had some money on
it. It had to it had liquidity.
I know. It was a lot. It was a little, I don't knows. Seemed
like kind of low. You know, it'll make as much money as I
thought.
But we now have, I think marnix or Satoshi stream posted this
morning. We have 250 podcasts Now, using the value block. cast
a lot, man. That's That's pretty good. You know, I think we have
most of the Bitcoin podcast covered.
I'm so glad that breeze put in the new value podcast tab. Yeah,
cuz that's really helpful because a lot of the ones that
are coming on board now a really high quality. I found myself
finding new stuff there.
Oh, every day, every day. I look at the new tab.
Me too.
Every day. It's fantastic. And it gets to the point where I
discussed I hate listened to Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway
pivot. That's my hate podcast. You hate you hate clip. Be Oh,
yeah. But it's important that, in fact, contrary to what many
people think I watched, I actually watch a lot of msnbc
during the day, or just want to see what they're saying. I want
to understand. There's a point now where I almost don't want to
listen to that podcast because I know I can't I can't boost it. I
can't really stream anything to it. I am lacking interaction.
And I've been it's boring. It's really interesting how the whole
idea of five two podcasts I want to like boom, five 500 stats
just before you've even the intro xover Alright, let's go.
And then
I've got my new twin my 2112 rush boost. That's my that's my
new
2112 rush. Boost.
Yeah, yeah. 2012 the album you know, rush.
I'm sorry, Dave. I'm not a rush guy. You're not Oh, never was
sorry.
Did you know 2112? No, I mean, that's like an epic album. No.
One of the greatest prog rock albums ever.
You have to remember that I started my career and grew up in
the Netherlands. So when I went to school in West Virginia when
I was what? It was 19 I guess 18 now 18 that was pretty much my
first exposure to rush. They did nothing and yet it was not on
the radio. It was the only thing would be spirit of radio. That
the one that one? Yeah, that's the only song that I was
familiar with. Yeah. So how does this correlate to your boost?
Now
that's that's the name of one of their albums is 2112
Oh, that's you boost to 112? Yeah, nice.
Yeah. Now I'm a baller booster. You sure are, but I had to live
I had to cut it in half though. I went from I went from you know
1033 to 2112. So I boost half as much
yeah, now I noticed that I like boosting a lot. So be all Bob
booster show many, many times.
You want to listen to I'm sorry? No good. Sure, sure. Do you want
to listen to Mahler's or Did you see this? The jack Mahler's
appearance on Fox biz?
I saw a little bit of it.
Yeah, I clipped it you want to?
This is jack Mahler's of strike and zap. And I guess it was
talking about the El Salvador Bitcoin integration,
monetization nationalization deal.
The IMF, the International Monetary Fund the world, the
world, you know, not interested in in stepping up to make this
happen. You know, you're kind of going at it alone without these
big organizations that usually step in and help second and
third world nations get up to speed
your lives. I wonder why they're upset. Because from a high level
of view, you're talking about a country sitting president that
has to look at 70% of the lives living within his country that
don't have financial access, that don't can't live a high
quality of life because they don't have a vehicle to save and
grow wealth. And all he's doing is plugging into an open
distributed system to give hope to his country to bring
financial inclusion and basic human freedom.
Sorry, no, hold
on me in Turkey, let me lose everything What? Well, because,
you know, there are many stories legions of them of people being
locked out of their accounts or you know, there was just this
situation recently where you have a Bitcoin company in Africa
setting up and then absconding with the money. I mean, maybe
they're working on the side of protecting these people to see
that side.
Oh, this is great. It's it shows you how little people really
understand Bitcoin. And this very interesting that her her
The main issue she sees is people forgetting their
passwords. That's pretty much it. And then like, that doesn't
happen to a regular bank account.
Yeah, and the volatility. Now, these are two big things, you
know, this would the price swing and I lost my password. I lost
my keys, right?
But that's exactly what that what they're doing with that 100
and $50 million fund is they're setting that up so that you can
accept Bitcoin, lightning or on chain and immediately exchange
it for equivalent in dollars. And then the the government or
the central bank, I believe, of El Salvador takes the risk on
the volatility.
Yeah. But what do you think he said? Like what do you think his
response to her was?
to this? Listen, you
What would your response be?
Oh, listen, you globalist news reader. is to start off like
that. Listen to you globalist news news model. I might have
said, oddly enough, I
did not say that.
He probably laid some Smackdown on her that was a high level
macro economics if I know Mahler's that's probably what he
did in his own. You know, hairless chest. baseball hat
wearing way he's very, very very charismatic. This young man.
He did not okay. And that was a little. Now Now, I'm not this is
not a criticism Mahler's because I think men respect the guy a
lot. And being in a situation like that, I think he could tell
he was a little nervous. And in his situation like that, when
you're not sure what the questions are going to be, and
they're coming at you quick. I mean, that's not an easy. Well,
I like how we
like how he parried her here. I mean, that was good. He's like,
excuse me? No. And then it comes back with Let me think what he
would say.
Because there are specific things where, you know, people
losing their money because they lost their wallet, keys or
whatever, and the price volatility swing?
Well, um, so what I always like is, you know, if I can remember
12 words, I have my money anywhere in the world. Have you
ever done that? By the way? Have you ever restored a wallet? With
your Oh my god, it is the it is one of the most sexiest things?
Really? Yeah, get the blue wallet. Okay. And on the blue,
so I have my I actually did it for the podcast index node, I
think what I tested you and so you can create a watch wallet.
So you can't interact with it you can spend from it, but you
can see everything that's happening. And you know, I
literally took the took the seed words, put them in, boom, and
the wallet pops right up.
I've read the spec on how that works. That in the mastering
Bitcoin book. I can't I still can't tell you how it works.
It's like math magic or something. I mean, some somehow
he's in the jury, like, well,
this is different systems, right? I think yeah, there's
there's different but they all kind of will. Like do all it
will do what they call it like that. Yeah, you all will eat
anything. Dude even come close. It's like, yeah, I think you're
using this system. Is this what you meant? Yeah. Okay. So I have
one wallet. That is for me is like, Okay, if I'm anywhere in
the world, and I need money, these 12 words in this sequence
I've memorized. I rehearsed them once a month. The first Yes, the
first of the month. I rehearse them. I make sure I've got them
that? Yes. Oh, yes. That's cool. Well, you know, there's many
ways to memorize I once read actually interviewed the guy who
wrote the he was a journalist. What was his name? He wrote, he
was researching for a book about memory professionals, you know,
who compete in contests.
That's not the mega memory guy was it? Who was that guy? Well,
he's not infomercial guy, right? No, no, no. Okay. All right.
And this guy, he got so interested that he not only did
the start to learn the techniques, but he went on to
win the World Championship. In memory, and you know, these guys
do, they can tell you the sequence of a whole deck of
cards. That's been shuffled, they'll tell you this and the
way They do it is architecture. And so they would buy every
architectural magazine, anything has a house in it. And so it's
okay I have to remember this, I'm, I'm in the house, I see in
front of me, I see a couch, that is the word dog, because the dog
be on the couch, then I'm going to look to my association with
architecture. And so you walk through the house, in your mind
in sequence. And that's where you either you put notes on the
door or something, it's something that you recognize,
and it really works. I can recall things from years ago
using that system, but I have to I have to keep it active, you
know, otherwise, it's it, you really have to concentrate.
Okay, what did the house look like? Anyway, so I've done that.
And it's beautiful. When you when you do that, and you see
the wallet come back? It's magic. So to me, that is one of
one of the beauties of Bitcoin is I have my password, my past
words in my head, but it's really to my fortune, you know,
there's nothing else I really need to remember. But this on
the other thing, what was the second one?
The volatility? Yeah.
Well, I mean, the answer in this particular interview would be
that the volatility risk is being taken up by the
government. And, and blow me that would be my answer. closer
to what is it? Exactly? Well, let's listen in.
I think it says a lot more about the folks that are against basic
human freedom and plugging into an open source system than it is
those for fighting for human freedom. I the dollar is still
legal tender, El Salvador is not going against any pre existing
efforts. It's plugging into a new system where it sees hope
and a better future for its citizens. I fundamentally see no
issue with that. I think there's a lot of useful problems to
solve with Bitcoin. And the problems you're bringing up are
to do with a certain company or certain individual event Bitcoin
is an open distributed network, there is no central point of
failure, there is no central counterpart that can make any
decisions on behalf of the government of President if the
President is to go haywire and lose his mind the Bitcoin
network is going to defend against it and not care one bit
there are no risks and plugging into an open free true system
and giving his country hope I see no problem with that and I
have a problem with those that do see a problem with that and
are trying to get in the way I find that morally wrong.
Okay, interesting. And this is in general I think this is a
good way to market Bitcoin but they're not doing it right. And
this started with
that was my exact thought. Yeah, just started with Ilan
You know, when he in essence, kicked the pile and said, okay,
tumbled down a little bit. You're not environmentally
friendly, whatever. And a lot of long term bitcoiners were
posting Hey man, do you know that you actually affected
people with the reduction in price you know, people who rely
on this it's their money and you've basically chopped it down
by 1015 20%. While true no one knows this yet no one no one
really is certainly not in the financial press has any idea
what was jack Mahler's just said there is no they do not
understand at all about the freedom of owning your own money
being your own bank having your own responsibility, and for it
not to be able to be seized in any way if they don't understand
that but really to thank god man, this house business I mean,
you know, so do we have a mortgage or we'd had money left?
Oh, you know, we made some money on the house we sold and we had
saved some money, the amount of transfers and waiting and it's
it's in process and from bank to bank to escrow to title company.
And then, okay, and Tina and I know that the day before we're
going to close on the new home, Okay, I'm gonna send this on the
wire this big this big money here, here we go. You'll never
fingers you probably won't see this amount in this account ever
again. Here we go. And you cannot wire over $25,000 like
okay, well, I did have to wire a little bit a little bit more
than that. So and then we have to go to the bank, we got to get
a certified check. I mean, holy crap. Meanwhile, if you just
look at mem space dot pool, is that mem pool dot space I think
it is. And you just go look at the transactions that are taking
place on chain right now. I'll just read off the numbers as
they fly by Oh, they're big. They're very big. Well, here's
5150 3868 31,004 50 40,007 27 sometimes it's you 14 million
flash and by 11,112,000. Now, of course these are, you know,
probably going in and out of exchanges. Who knows what what
those big amounts are for but the speed, you know, just try
and wire any big amount. And then you know anything small. I
actually got my hairdresser. I got him to get strike.
Oh, nice. Yeah, my brother in law on because I helped him with
some I've helped him with his computer stuff on the side. And
then he just pays me like I run his website and stuff. And so he
just pays me like a fee. It's like 30 bucks a month, you know?
And so I told him the other day, I'm like, let's, let's do
strike. And so we got him hooked up. Oh, cool. All right, cool.
It's such a great way to onboard people into lightning without
them even realizing they're on it.
Oh, for her, it was good, because she started doing Venmo
because it got the credit card feeds, and she just you know,
she rents a chair every day in a place. You know, it was a
typical one man shop but renting in a salon. And and now Venmo is
gonna start charging payers and recipients for, for payments.
Oh, I
don't know,
I think
I think No, you're No, you're wrong. I was thinking. I started
to say that. I remember that. But I think what I was confusing
it with was Pay Pal increasing their merchant fees.
Well, all of that's happening. It's all happening across the
board. And people are starting to notice that. And so I said,
well, let's just do satoshis and it goes in one for one. I don't
know how they make their money. Well, I do but it's not on your
transaction. She's like, let's do it. Okay, yeah, that's
where he was. He's like, Hey, I like free.
Yeah, let's do let's do it.
Well, this, you know, you brought up the housing thing. I
saw this post from somebody at the at an Austin newspaper. I
don't know which one is the statesman. And maybe I guess it
is The Statesman. Audrey McGlinchey. She did an article
is the title of article is home prices in Austin Rose 100,000 in
less than six months. When will the search end? No, I'm sorry.
This is the NPR station there. k UT radio? Yes. And so, you know,
her let her quote when she was posting a link to the article
was and she says, you know, blah, blah, blah, all this is
going on each day, more and more people are being priced out of
buying a home, which is now the way we build wealth in this
country? Yep. And I think that might be a better sort of attack
vector for discussing Bitcoin is, is it's protection against
inflation. And that that seems to be a little more an idea that
people can wrap their head around a little bit easier.
Because everybody understands that if you print more money,
you get inflation. Less. Everybody knows that. It's just
default. We've seen it with Beano. Was it Zimbabwe, and
we've seen it with why more Germany we see it, we've seen
that it's in, everybody understands this. And so if you
have a money that you cannot print more of, then you protect
yourself against the damages of inflation. And the damages of
inflation, to me are where the immorality is. I would like to I
guess I would like to see modelers, and people and people
focusing more on that side of things, because I think you're
right, there's no when he starts talking about decentralized and
distributed centralization, and openness, and no, no, everybody
just loses everybody. Yeah.
That's interesting. I had these clips yesterday for no agenda,
and I didn't play them. It's two clips, which now I did a whole
expos day on Larry Fink, the CEO of BlackRock.
I've got an article about BlackRock right here.
Yeah. So, you know, there they are, they are moving the needle,
they are moving companies through their influence when
board seats and you know, just just tons of tons of influence,
you know, they have almost $9 trillion under management, this
is big money from pension funds. Other you know, just really,
really large organization and, and they're implementing these
ESG standards, which is part of the problem with Bitcoin is it's
been labeled as not ESG is environmental, social corporate
governance. And they now have a scoring system as to how and it
literally comes down to did you use the word green a lot in your
marketing and are you woke I mean, these two things it true
and they have a whole Sasabe and TCF D, which are these org
nonprofits which are created with metrics how you measure
that Crap, which is completely subject or a lot of its
objective. But then I have two clips. So this, this is the guy
that that is pushing us towards new energy forms. They've
divested of anything in coal so that it matters what they do. So
if you want to know the engine behind green New Deal,
definitely, this is part of it. So this is what he had to say
about Bitcoin. Bitcoin is still a very small market. And it can
move in very large increments with small movements of money.
That's interesting point number one. So of course, with for him
relatively small amount of money, you can really move the
price. And this is that's what your volatility is, obviously,
that's what it is. But here he is, in essence, saying we know
that because he may be doing it or whatever.
And so it's not a market for the for the for the calm, I
understand the enthusiasm around it, this asset category is so
small relative to other asset category. And the preponderance
that is being discussed on Bloomberg and other sources. And
media tells you that, you know, people are fascinated about it.
So I would say business media believes it's going to have a
huge future. But But let's bring it down to the investor side,
everyone is focusing on it, it could be another store of
wealth. But right now, it's still untested, and has huge
volatility of moving in five and 6% increments with small
dollars, investments moving. And so for, for anything like that
to be to be truly successful, it's going to have to have a
broadening of the market. And you could invest large sums of
money without moving the value. To the extent it's doing it. So
we're watching it, we're enjoying the conversation. It is
my instinct, it will it may some form of a of a digitized
currency is going to play a bigger role in the future. And
it may be in Bitcoin, or maybe something else that has
developed, but there is a fascination and that fascination
is is really fun to watch. Okay,
so now this guy, I know this type of CEO, the things that
this this type of guy is that he that is on his radar, he'll
always diminish. You know, it's like, it's fun to watch a cute
little thing over there. But yes, now notice that he said it
could actually become a store of wealth. And he says, I know
something like it will become a store. Well, it could be Bitcoin
or something else. Bitcoin is the only one he named checked.
And, and the reason that's interesting is what he says in
this next clip is from the same interview, about store of
wealth, which now in Italy, in Japan, because of the lack of
social services, or also culturally, the store of wealth
is really the people themselves. They're Savers, unlike the
United States where, you know, we borrow, so they save a lot of
money, because there's when you retire, you either save
something, or you're going to, you're going to be living in
someone's basement. So I was talking about a store of
wealth. And so over the course of the next 20 years, you're
going to see this aging society started to spend their savings,
that's when the Italian or the Japanese deficits are going to
start really having an impact. In the United States. As long as
the US dollar is a store of wealth. The exportation of our
deficit is not a problem. If If there was another store of
wealth, if there were multiple stores of wealth, let's say
that, and then the exportation of the of the dollar, and the
deficits will become a problem. And that's a problem that we're
going to have to live with when that time happens.
So there it is. I think it's really interesting that he says
store of wealth as a store of value is a glimpse into his own
thinking about it that these guys in that perfectly plays
into the jack Dorsey Elon Musk thing though the B word. Oh,
yeah, that whole B word car thing. They're they're launching
this initiative to teach institutions and large companies
about the benefits of Bitcoin. I my personal thought is, this
fits perfectly with those clips that that what I think what
they're setting up and they're very, I think they've been
spooked by the inflationary signals that they have seen
which are stiff. I mean, if that's what she said, is
inflation. Inflation is beginning to rear its head in a
way that has a A lot of people scared, and it ought to, because
it could, it could be massive.
Well, they're also they're out of ammo, they have nowhere else
to go but print.
So they have to store them, they have to store their wealth
somewhere, or else it will be inflated away from them. So what
they are, I think, I think the Silicon Valley Tech hedge fund
matrix is looking at a alternative store for their
wealth where they can stick it and not have to worry about a
government taking it away from them through the slow. You know,
drip, drip drip of inflation, I would say might not be slow
anymore,
I would say that they're one step further, they have their
wealth in Bitcoin. And now they want to make sure that it
increases by bringing more people in. I think these guys
have that have whatever they need locked up, or whatever.
They feel comfortable with
that they've got their position already. Sure. Sure. Now they
now they need to rescue the elastic front runner. Yeah. But
I really like I really liked that thing said, well, Bitcoin,
probably a store of wealth. We'll see something like Bitcoin
will be a store of wealth. And then he says, if there's another
store, well, that's going to be a problem for the US dollar.
We'll have to deal with that. Yeah, it is it will be. Yeah.
And why do we say this? Because it's a part of podcasting. 2.0.
It's a part of the I really, truly see this as such. It's the
future. I may see it. I see it every single day, I need to see
how many transactions we're doing this month. But it's
cranking along just beautifully. And I see happy stories.
Yeah, I mean, I've added up my total boosts to pod news,
because I listen to it daily, every morning. Um, I'm pumping
in minimum $17. Probably, you know, when the week is up. 20
bucks. 20 bucks. No 17 to 20 bucks a month on one on that one
show. On pod news. Yeah, voluntarily. Oh, yeah. And I
want to I don't want to belabor the point. But I want to say,
you know, I've said this before, I think in a different but
there's something so magical about catching a listener, right
at the moment when some when they're listening and enjoying
your content, and giving them the ability to hit the boost
button at that very moment. Not a monthly subscription that may
hit their credit card, when they just when they're leaving work
one day, and they don't understand it. And they've got
no, at that moment, they may not have any connection to your
material into your content. But if you catch them when they're
listening, and give them the ability to pay you right then
man, you can make a difference in your in how much income you
have.
Oh, unbelievable. And it's a behavior. We're building on a
behavior that has already been taught to hundreds of millions
of people, which is the concept of like, and I'm tapping
something Yeah, and I'm enjoying something hearts, whatever it
is. It's
Yeah. confetti.
I love the confetti. Everybody's got different confetti. It's so
cool. I really love it. I really, really love it. Let me
see what
else are we I mean,
I wasn't long. Yeah, we know Jew boo. We need to thank people's
what we need to do value from value. That's what we're always
talking about. Then, we'd like to thank the people who support
podcasting 2.0 the podcast index.org project, which
includes this podcast, the mastodon, all the work that we
put in the community, the servers. The only way we can
ensure a future for now is this. Of course we always love it.
boost when you boost us. That's also accepted for your cut bucks
go to podcast index.org scroll down to the bottom. Big Red
Donate button and you can send it to us via PayPal.
Mark Marco arment comes in gave us above $100 this
month. You Marco he's working on the cloud in the cloud chapters
right?
Yep, he is. Never no no no jingle anything he just don't
need
to defragment we will make them faster. Implementation goes
smoother. It will line up all those blocks
is this this is oh here it is Lucas robot. And this is history
interesting. He gave us $100 Wow. Thank you and but get a
load of this though. He he says thanks for developing the
freedom controller now a happy user podcasting 2.0 value for
value streaming and the RSS kind of broad and decentralized go
prod go podcasting Lucas robot wow I gave Lucas some of my time
this week to help him get a free patroller setup flowers freedom
controller I set up in a long time three years yeah
nice What's he using it for for blog posts aggregation
I'm not real sure he called he called it show notes. That's the
name of the things I don't know if he didn't podcast or what I'm
not sure. Anyway, he he's fairly fairly technical. And you know,
it doesn't matter what the frame controller doesn't matter no
matter how technical you are, it can defeat you. So it defeated
him and he needed help
once a freedom controller is running is like the trusty old
steed.
It never stops he really
knock on wood but in 10 years, maybe three times have had an
emergency on the show day which you were able to fix in seconds.
Yeah, one of them one of those was an easy to instance, right.
Yeah. And the other one is where I I I saved an offline version
of you know, some 1000 page PDF filled with legislation which is
then it strips it all out, just strips out everything you can
find so he was just a server like I'm still calculating,
still trying to serve this page.
Let's say drip Scott gave us $43 shown show note number.
Episode Number nine. Nice one. Thanks. Drip. Drip says go pot
go podcasting. Yes.
Drip is the proud owner of a podcasting. 2.0 certified t
shirt. Ah, yes, yes, I
see many people posting their t shirts is beautiful to watch. I
love it. I love it. You know why? Because I wore it on the on
the max Kaiser RT show. I mean that thing read perfect. It was
great, though. It looked great. Yeah. They're like guns.
Yeah. See, Eric's sending out shirts as we as he can. So cool.
If you don't have it yet, you should have Emery Bryant gave us
$33.33 says excellent show guys. I love listening to this show as
much as do the no gender show. Wow, this is wow. big
compliment. Thank you. The amount of brain power that you
are able to get into one room is amazing. I agree. I
wholeheartedly agree with the
brain matter maybe
you made me want to podcast and run my own node. Keep it up sir
twin screw w wb for BSD.
You know that's that's such a good who was playing with it?
What is that black hole dot run? You ever seen that? It's like a
file transfer service? Well, I guess what I was just thinking
is, man, I'm looking at that Raspberry Pi. And it's running
my node. It's running lightning. I mean, if we had ipfs hooked
up, man, it'd be so perfect. Here's your podcast box. just
hook it up to your cable. It'll work magically money. You know,
mp3 is go out. It gets distributed somehow. Money comes
in and Satoshi somehow
made the magic box. Yeah. And your closet.
That's the one the one we've been talking about for 20 years.
20 years that we'll never have a new house. The new house this
guy built the house. Any wired it properly. He wired it with
mounted TVs we're not. We don't necessarily like we're not big
in the TVs everywhere. But they happen to be in every room. But
he has a server rack and that's where the cable boxes go and
he's got Yeah, baby. You know I'm gonna have some Winky blinky
lights in
the LC How many? How many Raspberry Pi's? Can
I fit in that server? Beautiful, beautiful. With a smoky glass
door the whole thing? It has its own spot in the house like
What's that? That's my rack. Betty comes
beautiful rags, huh? month, our monthly guys this week, Keith
Gibson gave us $50 Thank you. Dwayne. Goldy gave us eight.
Charles dogs freaking Charles current gave us $5 Christopher
raymer $10. James Sullivan. $10. Jordan dunville $10 is ducote
$6.66.
Thank you, sir group. Yeah, thank you to these supporters
very much appreciated. Thank you for keeping it running until the
end until the satoshis sustain us. Yep, we'll let you know. By
the way. We will let you know we'll let you know. But I'm very
excited. In a couple of weeks, hopefully then we might be able
to show some of the of the new onramp process In the backend
for podcasts, I think is what Eric's working on now, with the
statistics, I believe, you know, timelines, so you can see where
the boosts happened.
That's, that's my understanding mean, this associate dot stream
guys have some of them really develop. Yeah, they didn't do
very good. I mean, like, it's got lots of stuff. And by the
way, they, you know, they're, they said that they are giving
us they're donating 1% of their of the for
that when they when it goes out? Yeah,
I know. Do we know how? Because I'd like to credit them on the
show with the amount we know how to get that info out. So that's
the whole question. That's
a good question. Yeah, I would presume that I can't I don't
have the I don't know how to do that. I don't have the tools,
but I think we can. And maybe we just ask them. Could you please
tell us how much you think you sent us? You deserve some t
shirts? At least? It's true. Yeah. Yeah, at least. Now I
know. That's very, very, very cool of them.
I like them to tell us. Yeah, tough either. Either what you
did or how to get for how for us to do it on the l&d side and we
can credit
for sure. For sure. Okay, let me see what else do we have any of
these clips you want to take care of a resume? Let me see
what I got here. We never do all your clips. You have so many
clips that you always bring.
We never get to them all. push them forward. Well, I mean,
let's do a couple ices. Okay. Want to do it like money? It's
like money if you think about it. You think about it. This my
favorite though. Satoshi. I just got five satoshis. Was that?
Dave Jackson? That's right. That's right. He's got five
satoshis Beautiful.
Yeah. See, Dave gets it. Like it's exciting fight. Who gives a
crap is $5.05 satoshis. I got something. I got something. It
worked.
I got five or something.
I love that. Okay, anything
else you got? I mean, I got stuff. But we just we've been
out man. We have so much.
We went so deep on so many important topics.
I wanted to talk about goods and we didn't even get there. But
we'll do it next week. Oh, man.
Okay, well, that'll be our teas. Goods goods for next week goods
in your future.
Yeah, that brings them back. Please.
Come back here next Friday for goods you will not be
disappointed. Thanks for the day. We'll see you next week
man. Bye, everybody.
You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 visit podcast
index.com for more information. I just got five satoshis podcast