podcasting 2.0 for November 5 2021, episode number 61
Remember remember the fifth of November you got to look that
one up yourself. Hello everybody time once again for the official
board meeting of podcasting 2.0 Everything happened in podcasts
index.org We got the podcast namespace and of course the
gossip the intrigue everything the ideas the futuristic
thinking from podcasting index dot social hello everybody I'm
Adam curry in the heart of Hill Country Texas and in Alabama
transmitting his viral load worldwide my friend on the other
end ladies and gentlemen say hello to Mr. Dave Jones
I'm not dead
Dave man I feel so bad
I must I must not factory I mean this is like my most of my long
term goal to keep the rest of my family from getting near my
microphone is all part of the plan.
I don't even know if I want you in my ear headphones quite
honestly, it's like just spit into you okay, though, man.
You're not this is not a return of the Rona. Is it?
Enough to Kona COVID test both negative and but based on the
way I felt the last few days. I mean, it was almost as bad if I
had if you to throw in a little favor in there with it. Oh, do
it. It might have been COVID level. She I don't know what
this thing is like. They you know RSV Yes.
Yeah, a lot of kids have RSV right now. Yes. Respiratory ease
or something. Virus is
chinchilla risk for chinchilla. It's like six or whatever. Okay,
I got to look it up RSV virus. Yeah, it's the respiratory sing
tick sing tick show virus. Okay.
Go. I think Yeah. Usually received by children who
wouldn't wearing a mask in school all day. Seriously,
seriously, that's part of the problem was from what I
understand.
The the Okay, since syncytial virus. Yeah, yeah, so the
doctor, the doctor said that it's good. Like you said, it's
going around hard right now and with kids what she told me it
was kids, it tends to just be like a, if it doesn't get
serious, it tends to be just like a cold, right? But but with
if with adult if it gets into you pretty hard. You it gets
into the head and the throat and
then you become impotent, right?
Oh, wait, I didn't see that on the wiki page. Well, let me add
it. That's the chinchilla version. No, they Yeah, she said
it gets all it can make and rescue pretty hard if you get it
as an adult. Yeah, I don't understand really made me more
ranty than usual because I'm good. Well, finally, a little
spark. My blood to Sudafed ratio is about 5050 right now.
Alright, know what I'm
saying. That means crank up those those values, sliders,
crank, crank up your per minute sets and get ready to boost as
hard as you can, because Dave is really going to need a boost.
And let me start off our board meeting by saying how much I
despise being from the future.
Oh, I thought you enjoyed being from the future.
Oh, it's so it's so tiring. I only one week ago. Did I
complain about the potential of transcripts getting completely
fucked up and everyone doing their own thing? And then right
away, there it is. There's Amazon doing their thing. It's
like they heard you and we're like,
Go
release it. Release it. He's ready for us.
Yeah, this was like the week of protest proprietary bull crap to
the extreme.
And what this tells me because I was listening to I must have
been James was he's the one that did the research. And I
appreciate it. Because you know, this kind of started with per
word timing of transcripts, which works advantageously for a
whole bunch of reasons, particularly with overlooking at
fountain how they do the the non waveform editing. This, I think
that kind of resolution give developers more granularity in
general how to how to display, caption sub subtitles,
transcripts, translations. I now James put together a whole thing
that shows me how to get the word for word translation from
Amazon. I'm sure if I really focus on it, I could get it
done. No problem. But I mean, I really just want a provider that
can just poop this out, you know, I'll pay for it. If it's
someone who wants to do this, for value for value, I'll put
you in the value block. I mean, there's there's different ways
I'm using otter right now and it works fine. It does not do that
word per word, but more egregious Lee or not, not
actually not egregiously the opposite. What I'm seeing is
everyone's trying to build their fiefdom, Apple's building their
fiefdom, Amazon's building their fiefdom, Google to some degree.
Well, they are actually because they're, you know, I didn't
Google just by some podcast or something. So everyone's trying
to build their little fiefdoms thinking that well, it's really
all about the content. And while Yeah, it is, it also isn't,
because you can't be people already are having issues with
streaming video platforms they don't want. And this is just do
your research. They just look at Rogan, I mean, seriously, look
at Rogan, how many people like yeah, you know, okay, you can
definitely pull me over and get me to take some action to be
able to continue listening or watching. But it's, it's not
really what podcasting is about, people have this, you know, it's
like, you've got a radio and you've got as many push buttons
as you want. And you can customize this radio, and you
want this shit just to come in there. That's what the, the
entire culture is. So they're losing, they know they can't do
it. They know they can't. They can't beat us. So instead,
they're just gonna build their little fiefdoms, and we'll have
some noise I predict for another 24 months, and then these
players, Amazon, and Google certainly will become
insignificant to me, I think to most What do you mean by
insignificant, it's not important their apps. So already
people, people are starting to discover the issues with these
with the with the quote, unquote, the big apps, let's
just leave Spotify out of it. Apple doesn't update for hours
and hours and hours. Yesterday, someone said, Hey, man, you
haven't uploaded to Google podcast. So I always take a
little time and say, well, that's not exactly how it works.
What is happening is they're not taking advantage of the pod ping
system, which is No, I actually wrote it differently of the
something like the the instant update pod ping system, which
you know, updates podcast on apps that participate within 40
seconds get a better podcast, app, new podcast, apps.com. So
they cannot compete. Yeah, they can't and their whole DNA
doesn't allow them to compete doesn't allow we, we didn't
invent this fucking pod ping. Can't be using that here.
Well, you know, what I thought was funny was that James had
mentioned that Apple had looked at pod paying and was was
concerned about that it was still under development, quote,
unquote, which it's not anymore and
who, who do you know who he's who said that from?
No. He had mentioned that yesterday on on podcast index
does social? And, you know, the, even though, you know, well, I
mean, all software's continually under
now that we know that the apple podcast app is is the gold
standard, and it's all fixed. And there's no bugs, we'll
consider that no longer under development.
Yeah, it's baked. It's finished. It was done. Yeah. So you know,
the the issue here though, is that pod paying has been running
for got a year. I don't have I mean, how many months now?
Not not a year, but a long months and months and months?
It's,
it had one issue about two months after we went it went
live with it. That was corrected. And it's been running
for minimum eight months. With, I never even look at it, it just
runs it does its thing. It's, it's a fully functional stable
piece of software.
Well, you know, that's because Brian is up 24/7 making sure
everything's working all the time. He's always doing it.
Yeah, that mean, that's so if that's the excuse for not, oh,
that's tapping into the, to the to not tapping into the ability
to interact with everybody in an efficient way. Then we'll you
know, how do you explain all of their they're just all in both
with both feet on everything else? They do this broken? me
it's like, well, you know, I don't want to look at pod pain,
because, you know, it still says, you know, it's fairly new
and it still says it's under development. But we have all
these other systems that are proprietary that we run
internally that are all also completely broken. It's like
yeah, I mean, I can guarantee you that pod ping is much more
stable than Apple's aggregator is a promise you that that the
whole thing that gets lost here with all this stuff is interop.
And that I want I want to go back for a second
wait and wait, wait, how far back are you going?
To September of last year
hmm. Okay, hold on a second.
You got the wormhole. That's what I was looking for. For the
wormhole. Yeah,
you'll just have to go without I don't want to know the wormhole
is gone. What happened to the wormhole? Alright, I'm sorry,
keep going. Well, I'll look for the wormhole. Oh, wait, here it
is I found it. Here we go. That's a better one. Now let's
go back in time, who's Dave Jones?
When did that, okay, we'll leave that we the rules for standards
makers behave wonder. It is the Bible that we live by within
podcasting 2.0 and the namespace development and all the open
standard development that we do here at this project. And I want
to know, note, the first few lines here. Rule number one,
interrupt is all that matters. That's rule number one. And the
explanation is we want interrupt so that users are free to move.
So our products compete on the basis of performance features
and price and not lock in. It honors and respects the users of
our products. Yeah, that's that's
the opposite of what everyone is. What the big guys are doing
is the opposite. They don't
yeah, that was one of my biggest pet peeves with with with
Amazon's it. It's not just Amazon, other people are doing
their own proprietary transcription as well. If the
podcast feed, specifies the transcript tag in it, then the
creator of the podcast has spent time and money to produce that
thing in and to a level of accuracy that they are
comfortable with perhaps even hand coding or running it
through secondary scripts to fix known issues in transcription
engines,
which is what I do I always correct Jhansi Dvorak, which
shows up as Gen C Devorah.
Exactly. You have gone to the trouble and the time and the
expense to create a transcript and put it in your feed to tell
the whole world. This is the textual representation of
transcripts and subtitles that I want my listeners to see. And
Amazon and the other trend, automatic transcription engines,
apps have said, we don't care. We don't care what you as the
creator want. We're going to do what we want. And that is not
honoring or respecting the creator in any way. It's only
thinking out for you is only thinking for yourself. And
there's really no difference between doing that. And sucking
in the audio itself, the audio file itself and just sticking a
bunch of ads in there. Mm hmm. Why not? I mean, there's, this
is content, you're linking to a transcript file, an external
transcript file, and you're linking to an external audio
file. The transcript is what the Creator produced. The audio file
is also what the Creator produced. If you molest either
one of those, you're an evil person. You are a person that
does not die alright. An entity a corporate entity that does not
care about creators at all. only care about building your own
kingdom
shocking shocking
evil and stone lunacy.
Yes, Shocking. Shocking. Shocking. I tell you, evil
Amazon employee Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's evil.
That's okay. I'll tell you that the other thing that bothered me
that stopped me when he when you need
no keep going you're on your you're there there's the
bloodstream go.
I've got I've got another four hours of Sudafed less I'm gonna
get to so um, the other thing that bothered me was was it for
a different reason was a cast, deciding to auto submit to pod
chaser. Now, I liked I liked the guys from pod chaser got a good
relationship with and they worked. They worked with us to
develop the person tag and the open taxonomy group. This is not
about them. But their, their system is a closed system is
not. It's not open. They're a VC funded company. And which is
fine. I mean, that's fine. But what I don't understand is a
cast does not they've chosen to auto submit to pod chaser. Why
not us?
Well, I would say right off the bat, you have no idea what the
agreement is on the back end. True. So there could be
something there. That could be a financial relationship. A equity
financial relationship, it could be a relationship between
venture capitalists or other investors, a whole bunch of
reasons. And, and it's just, it just, it's just annoying, it
just slows us down a little bit. No one gives a shit. The people,
the people have found their apps, our job is to get better
apps in their hands.
In that you're right. That's the that's, that's what bothered me
is because our job is to get, you know, our job is to take in
all the feed data that we can find in the universe, parse it,
and then give it back to everybody in for free, is what
we do our systems, ingest podcast data from everywhere,
and then stat, normalize it and then give it back for free. You
can go and down those 4.3 million feeds in our database,
you can go and you can download them right now in a SQLite
database format for free off our website. And it updates every
week. That that is
that is that is also unbeatable Dave, It's unbeatable. As long
as we keep doing things like that. There is no inherent value
to having a closed system, because you can get everything
you want on the outside. And that's that's our power. That is
our power is the openness, the willingness to share everything.
And that's why Linux is beating all operating systems. It's a
long journey. And this one will be much shorter than than most
things just because of the tools and everything and the
accelerated accelerated pace, which we're developing and
living compared to 1718 years ago. But that's going to win it
always does. I mean, it just it always does. And we got long
breath. Well, as long as you give me the passwords, we got
long breath because you know what's gonna happen? Yeah. And,
and even better. Our partners, let's just use venture capital
speak, are our partners love what we do. And we love our
partners, they love us so much they fund it. They fund it. They
found it through boosts they funded through value for value
through PayPal, and time and talent and treasure. It's
unbeatable, It's unbeatable. I did business long enough.
I had no problem with people making money. That's not that's
really not the issue. And, you know, I
want everyone to make money. Of course. Yeah,
not not an issue. My my real mount real gripe here is just
that. We, there's all these, there's these connections going
on. You know, the latest example is a cast and pod chaser.
There's all these connections happening between proprietary
systems, which are a take again, pod thing, one of the one of the
one of the beautiful side effects of pod pain, is that
when you send a ping into the system, you oughta register it.
Yeah, like when when other people are watching the
blockchain, they see a feed URL, and they realize that's a feed
URL. They don't have. They can ingest it. It's new. And so it
takes the going back to this is a cache chaser linkage here.
Instead of making a proprietary call, yeah, just using API's,
yeah, publish it to pod pink. And then we all get it at the
same time, and it takes 30 seconds. This is See this is why
I brought up. Rule number one. interop is all that matters.
Because when you focus your when you focus your system on
interoperability, everybody wins by default. You don't have to
think about everybody winning, they just do.
What's the the disappointing part is the jacked up genus and
excitement of people, whenever some big company does anything
with the name podcasting attached to it. You guys are
like fucking Lucy with the football stop. But it just,
they're just gonna pull it away from you. They'll close it down,
they'll do something out. It's not worth it. And then they
crave the attention of one class of people. And it's not users.
They want the developers they want the developers to use their
stuff. They want the developers to use their, their SDKs and
their APKs. And their SDK, whatever Piquet's ptks That's
what they want. That's what they want. They want the developers
to come in. And I only have to remind everybody of Twitter.
Holy shit. developers around the world built Twitter. They built
Twitter, they built the experiences, they built the
excitement, they created the lingo. They created the
hashtags. All of this stuff was built by mainly developers or
developer allies. Developer allies
and they kicked him to the curb and then they
kicked him out. No, no no you don't know what the experience
is. So stop with this Lucy in the football shit it's an if you
don't know that is go look at peanuts the cartoon, Charlie
Brown. Yep, that's it. Yes. It's so It's so dumb. It's, it's
well, at least this gave us what 15 minutes of talk here. That's
great. That's more than he deserved. The way I feel, though
I figure it.
Well, the other part of this is, you know, this. The other thing
I want to bring out of the rules for standard makers is software
matters more than formats. And that has that has to do with one
of the reasons why I've sort of refocused over the last few
weeks into building software, and nuts have a mis is focused
on the namespace, and the namespace and I'll be going back
to that soon. But you need software, you need software to
make the standards and the specs make sense. And so there's holes
here. I mean, pod paying was a great is a great standard, that
it's useless as a standard without software to, to make it
useful. Yes.
And, and tag proposals are great. But if you don't have an
implementation, you're just a proposal sitting there forever.
That's right. That's right. And that's what's beautiful about,
about what is going, you know, as always going on 24 hours a
day on podcast, index dot social is that people are building
software, and ensuring not only that they meet a spec, but that
they are creating in specs as they go along. You know, they
see things that are needed. And then these developers, they
create a spec based on the thing that they're doing. And then we
all benefit. Again, we all benefit. Yeah, so the way it
works.
And again, my gratitude towards Stephen B for the curio caster
RSS Jenny, which so here's a perfect example. You know, he
built that so that everybody could benefit from a consistent
feed the podcast in 2.0 feed that has as many tags in there
as we can muster. Totally, by the way, we don't have the
there's a couple missing. But still, it's already so far. We
even have the social tagging there, which no one seems to
understand how it works. But it's in there. And getting
there. And we're gonna keep that out, of course, but this, this
is the beauty of it. You know, everybody puts in a little
piece. Now I know that Ryan, I believe, key was thing he showed
up on podcast index social with an idea of well, maybe I could
do a transcript service, would there be any? Would any be
anybody be interested in that? I'm like, Yeah, of course, I'm
paying some company, I'll pay anybody. And if you want to do
it in a value block or some other value based transfer, we
can do that. You know, if you need a minimum, and you know,
and so I That's fantastic. We get guys showing up who want to
do services like that. That's very exciting.
Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, there's your there's your
software. And it's crazy creating this, this creating the
standard, rather than the other way around? Yes. Because you
have, you know, you have people that don't, we don't fully
understand or did not fully understand at the beginning how
the cross app comments was going to play out. But as people have
begun to develop software, or try, they're trying to develop
software against it against against this spec that we think
will work. But you don't know 100%, if it'll work until you
get the software written, that's going to utilize it, then you
find out where your holes are and where your problems are
going to be. And not
just that it's it's also how the the podcasters, or the youth
listeners or let's just call them the users how they will use
it, you can be very surprised. Yes, it always doesn't always
get used away intended. In fact, most times, it probably doesn't
get used the way it was intended. Not entirely.
Yeah, so we're going to find out over the next, you know, two to
three months, probably what the best way is what what the final
spec for comments, social tag is going to look like, right. And
we're going to find that out by actually by software, running
and doing things. And that's, and then when we're finished,
we'll we'll have a spec that's proven to work, we'll know it
works. And then we can put that in the namespace. And then
everybody immediately on day one can begin to code against it and
know for a fact that it's going to be something doable.
Yes. And the minute we do that both the Google and Amazon
player will have their own little comment widget they're
going to put in their app and then we'll look at this cool
stuff we got you can now comment on podcast. Yeah, yeah, that's
exist. So we might as well just say it now because you know
what's gonna happen? Yeah, and
that like yeah, like your like your take. Screw those guys. We
don't need that. They're going
to they're not going to win. That's not the behavior. Look, I
am not good. A lot of things, I do know how to pick the hits.
And whether it's music, news stories, technology apps, I'm
usually put, I might get it wrong, of course, but I'm
usually I'm usually pretty spot on, I can feel it. And that's
based on my feel of an audience what the audience wants. And I
feel the podcast listening audience. You know, I, I've been
around for a while taking the hits. And apps are super
personal man, super, super, super personal. And it doesn't,
it doesn't necessarily come down to things we're developing, we
lose people using the new podcast apps over things like
silence, skipping, Audio Boost, at perception, like this app
just sounds shittier than the other one, which I think is
totally not true. But if you're used to overcast or some other
apps that have built in sound processing, which, sadly, is
necessary, because not everyone delivers consistent levels and
loudness and etc. You know, that's, that's often where we're
losing it on. So and that's very, very personal stuff. And
for a lot of people, it's a combination, you have to have a
bunch of different things.
Yeah, I can tell you when comments come in, when cross app
comments begin to, to percolate through through podcasting.
That's going to be such I don't really know what the words to
describe it are, but it's gonna be a huge deal. I think so to
people, you know, people don't may not understand younger
people may not understand now that they live in a world in a
web world where comments have been disabled on most websites.
But back in the day, every website had comments. And these
these tribes and these groups develop, formed around the
comment sections of certain sides. And like you could go to
scripting.com Read Dave whiners blog, and he would always have a
comment thread attached to the bottom of it. And you had the
same people commenting and developing rivalries and
camaraderie around his content. And you're gonna see the same
thing. The same thing happened with news sites like our local
news, website@aol.com. They had comments forever. And you had
this, you had a tribal type situation there where people
were the same people showing up and making comments on the news
stories. And sometimes you got really good information from
those news stories, some a news story would be posted. And then
somebody would pop in onto a comment, say, you know, hey, I
work for this company. And that's not true. This here's the
details of what really went wrong. Yes, you're gonna see the
same thing. It pop up around podcast comments, you're gonna
see tribal, you know, sort of camaraderie come together around
certain podcasts in the comment section. It's gonna be a big
deal. I really is.
I completely agree. I'm super stoked. I'm stoked, bro. totally
stoked about I think, what
are good, God, please. I was just gonna say, I wonder, what
are what are what our guests might think about?
Well, I was actually going to lead into them and in about 37
seconds. Okay. Do you say just a question, but point of personal
privilege for the board meeting? Do to leave that we thank you.
Do you believe that we will have because I've, you know,
obviously, you've been testing out the live stuff, the live.
That would be like kind of live chat slash booster. Gram. Do you
think we'll have that in the next few weeks?
I think so. If I can get so
let me run down because I think they're all related. You're
working on. In essence booster grams, I think kind of as a as a
rolling theme. Part of it is live chat where the booster gram
show up. Part of it is an Umbral app, which I'm very excited
about. And maybe something else that I'm not aware of. But it
all kind of revolves, I think around booster grams.
Yes. So what I'm working on currently is the there's there's
a couple projects. One of them the MK Ultra project is the one
that is for live. And that's the an app that you could run an app
you can run that will bring in comments that will let you do
live chat with a feed with a live feed, audio feed and
booster grams all in one page in a one in a single page app that
you can just fire up and attached to your live item in
your feed or, you know, tweeted out or whatever. And it's a it's
an ephemeral chat room where people can live this Super Chat
is what it is This could also be an Umbral app very easily. The
The other thing that just started working on a few days
ago, which I'm kind of focused on, mostly right at the moment,
is the booster gram app, the bisque gram Umbral app. And
it'll be usable as a non Umbral app as well. But it is going to
share a lot of the code with MK Ultra. And it would so I'm just
pulled over the front end and some other things and I found a
really good rust lightning lnd interface library. It's not,
it's not fleshed out, it doesn't have all the G RPC calls in it.
But um, I've communicated with those guys and I'm, I'm going to
put those calls in that we need in this submit back to their to
their project. I've
been afraid to ask this question, but I need to, could
you tell me in a paragraph The advantages of rust, which I know
has been a big topic of discussion you're learning? It
seems like you're really interested in using it? What is
it exactly that it has that makes people all jacked about
it?
It's what pod thing is built front end for piping is built
on. It in it is the main benefit to rust as a compiled language
is that
you get speed. Oh, it's not interpreted. It's not a
scripting language.
It's not a scripting language, you get a full binary. So you
get you get a compiler, you get to speed up, hey,
I identify as full binary.
Well, you'll be you'll feel at home. Yes, yeah. Yeah. And, but
specifically, the rust benefits are our memory safety. So when
you things like buffer overflows are not possible within the
within rust generated binaries, because the compiler itself
enforces type safety and memory and memory protection. So you
can't declare a variable, pass that variable by reference to
another function and then have that function, release that
memory without knowing it, and then come back from that call
and, and use it again. So those types of of memory protection
issues are all flagged and and rejected at compile time. So you
get tons of errors.
Oh, you're right. So you deal with all the crap up front. I
got it up front and who created this language? Where's What's
the origin
Mozilla Mozilla? Yeah, see if it ever the the idea with rust is
if it if it actually compiles, you're good. You're You're fine.
Like
the way it used to be it compiles is good. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And that did not work out so well. In reality.
Yeah, no question about code names and acronyms just so I can
get it all straight up. MK Ultra, I think is a cool name.
And I don't know who came up with it. Because of course, we
know what MK Ultra really is. But I like I like how it
pertains to actually mind controlling people into sending
other people money. That's pretty cool. Yeah. Then we have
what I mean, I just got used to POC meaning people of color. Now
it's proof of concept. And then, you know, I'm not a basketball
guy. But then I see the most valuable player everywhere. And
I had to think about it and look it up. So Oh, minimum viable
product. Oh, okay. Yes, yes. Yes. Got it. I like what James
put together as a minimal viable, minimum viable product.
Is that all possible, including the quote, fancy charts and
graphs?
Yeah, that's totally possible that the initial initial app
will just be it's just going to be a page, a web page with Mr.
Graham's listed as they come in. They'll show up in on that page.
It's, it's gonna be like, do you have your umbrella? Yeah, no,
no, no, cuz I couldn't get it to run. I couldn't get it to
install and I just ordered the box, but it's not it'll take
another month.
Okay. Yes, you launch apps from the Umbral, I've
seen it, obviously, I've seen the interface and everything.
Yeah, yes. Like you launched
thunder hub, or whatever. And all it's doing is just
connecting to a web web server in a Docker image on a certain
port. And so it's connected back to localhost on that port. So
this will be the same way you'll just you'll click on the
histogram app in unboiled dashboard, it'll launch a new
tab in your browser.
Funny enough is pretty much what Dave Winer pioneered with radio
userland when you think about it, oh, yeah, that was that was
the vision was fractional horsepower. And by the way, I
still love that vision, where everybody would have their own
little server on their computer or their desktop or maybe
running at home on a dedicated box. And this would be you know,
would be fractional. So you could have little bits of pieces
because you're not going to get slashed dotted if we can still
use that term. And, and you had a quick way to create interfaces
that made sense and you could even adjust yourself as a home
user.
No, it's a great it's great system. Yeah. And it'll, it'll
be very the, the way it's structured as a as a back end
with, it's doing the polling to be reached to retrieve the
booster grams from lnd, sort of all the time into a SQLite
database. And then there's a front end piece. And what I'm
working on right now is trying to get a get the threading
correctly because correct because MK Ultra uses multiple
processes, but on the on the histogram app for it has to
really be it's cleaner, if it's one process, because Docker
images like to be a single process scope. So what I'm
trying to do is take that, take the multiple processes and put
them in multiple threads. So do you have a thread running and
pulling the strands all the time into a database. And then you
have a web server front end, which is the main thread, which
is serving client requests from the from the unroll user in the
browser. And so that you're just like put, just pay it whenever
my refreshes the page, it's just picking up the latest histograms
and giving them to you. So that's, that's what I'm trying
to sort of re engineer that right now. But the back end,
it's pulling, it's all definitely pulling. It's pulling
booster grams, storing them in the database. Now it's all
friend and we're from here on out and then and then the
process of doing the overlap the creation.
Well, with all this excitement, often, we go too far, I think I
saved Steven B. I think I saved him. Because he was talking
about hey, you know what? Why don't I just set up some hosting
for people to get him started? I'm like, stop, put the brakes
on. This is not what you want. Yeah, but it's just just
connecting this to that. Aha, aha, aha, no. This is Oh my god.
And and so this is how I transition to our guests who can
tell us why that may not be a good idea. Only based upon
experience of what it actually takes to have people hosting
files with you. We have two gentlemen on from an outfit
called cast ons. That's how I pronounce it that may be wrong.
This is a cast those I like cast ons, but okay cast hosts. Now,
we were introduced to the company through the director of
podcast success when half of our demo here, actually a couple
months ago, it was almost a year ago, I think a long time ago,
popped up with a whole video about value for value in
podcasting. 2.0. So we're very proud to have here the founder
and CEO of Castillo's, Craig Hewitt, and director of podcast
success, Matt madeiros, gentlemen.
Hey, guys. Hey,
so I apologize. CASS dose.
It is cast. All right,
you got to tell us about the name right off the bat where to
come?
This is a good name.
I like Castle West, because that's how it felt to me. It's
like, oh, this is an operation an operating system for
podcasting.
How did the name come about? Gosh, I wish we had like a like,
you know, whimsical moment where it just came to me in the night.
But you really just like wanted a memorable name that that
wasn't a compilation of a couple of random nouns together,
including pod or cast, and just came up with this. And yeah, I
think it fits. It fits pretty good. And it's it's a bit
whimsical. Yeah.
But and, and the domain name was available. And it was that's
always like, the domain available. We got to get it to
tell us about the company. Yeah. Craig. How long ago did you
started and why?
Yeah, so the why is kind of similar to to why y'all started
this project, I think is we saw kind of a gap in the market and
a place where folks needed things that other providers
weren't weren't delivering on and thought that we could do a
little bit better than than some of the entrenched players.
What were what were the main things you saw that were not
being done, right.
Yeah, I mean, at the beginning, it was a lot of frankly, kind of
design and user experience level product things from some of the
kind of more established players that you know, they at the time
didn't seem to care so much about what their product look
like and how its represented on on customers podcasts, websites
and things like that. And from the from the very beginning,
that was a big part of what we wanted to do better. Um, but But
interestingly, we got the start for the company by by acquiring
a WordPress plugin and so kind of your your comments and
discussion about open source so far really rang true to us. I
mean, we we got our starts and WordPress, obviously an open
source project and still maintain it and it's a huge part
of, of what we do and kind of from there the hosting arm of
the business kind of grew out but but it kind of got its start
by us acquiring the seriously simple podcasting plugin, and
building the hosting platform to integrate with it. And for a
long time, you could only use cast dos With WordPress, there
wasn't a comes up with it as like an independent standalone
platform for about the first eight or nine months, you
still have an API that makes that basic connection possible
between external generator.
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So that's one of the things that I've want to
talk to Matt. Before we were talking about how I feel like,
one thing that happens with Castillo's is you guys get short
shrift when it comes to the amount of podcasts that you
actually host, you actually host. I mean, 10s of 1000s of
podcasts. But since they're all primarily distributed, it's sort
of a similar problem to blueberry, but I think yours,
yours is even more. So. Since it's distributed across, you
know, all those independent WordPress sites. It makes it
look like you're not a big host when you actually are very, very
large.
Yeah, I agree. I agree. And I don't know that today, we found
a technical way to kind of represent that these WordPress
based feeds are powered, you know, by by series, and will
podcasting or files or hosted by cast us? I'm not at the level
that kind of James, uh, you know, compiles the data at, you
know, if you look at the source code in XML, it's in there, but
but not at the kind of domain level,
how much does that matter? Being on a list like that? You know,
does it is that one of the metrics that you use? No,
comparatively, oh, these guys have that we have this number, a
number of podcasters. The, I'm sure clients coming and going is
an important metric. But how much does it matter where you're
on you are on perceived charts?
It doesn't matter at all. It means a lot to me.
So So that's, that's my next question, Matt. Thanks. So you
Director of podcasts success is what I guess we would call
podcaster. relations. I like your title a lot better. What is
the reason people come to costos? And stay there?
Yeah, you know, so, you asked about that. First, I have to say
like listening, being here in the show is so surreal, because
usually, I'm consuming this podcast at the end of my Friday.
And I have like moments to break and be like, No, Adam, that's
not gonna work that way.
Feel free, feel free, feel free.
Yeah, like, Oh, my God, all these neurons are firing. But
you know, a lot of folks coming to us, brand new podcasters like
folks are struggling plugging in a USB microphone. Right. And
there's challenges like that. And then we get into the throes
of editing content and sustainability of a podcast.
And, you know, I hope that folks are sticking around with
Castro's because they love our support, and we're helping them
every single step of the way. And then, of course, our feature
set, you know, leading into a lot of the stuff we're doing
podcast, two point podcasting. 2.0. You know, hopefully, folks
starting to enjoy some of that stuff as well. But WordPress,
huge background, in where we come from, you know, the open
source project of WordPress is massive. We have so many you you
hosted WordPress podcast, right? Yeah, I
host maybe two, two bucks.
Two, yep. Yep. To podcast about WordPress. I've been doing that
for like nearly a decade. That's actually how I found Craig is
how I found the software. So super passionate about that.
But, you know, we, people who run WordPress sites, I know
it's, it can be tricky. It can be cumbersome to put it
politely. But folks just want to own their content. And that's
when we say you want to own your podcast, you want to own your
feed, we hang our hat or better or worse on WordPress, because
it's a massive publishing, open source publishing platform.
We haven't you know, we had a lot of podcasts hosting company
people on in the boardroom. And so I'm, you know, I've learned a
lot more about it. And this is one of the things I was telling
Steve and I said, Yeah, man, it's real simple to host mp3
files. But when someone has a problem, or when they don't
understand something, that's when you're going to die. And so
can you give me an indication Do you spend Where do you spend the
most of your time? Is it on an newer users onboarding? Is it on
the expert users? You know, who are the people you never have to
worry about? And how big is your team?
So that yeah, sorry, Matt. I'll let you talk about kind of where
where you and our support team spend a lot of your time in
terms of like the the profile of customers, but there were 15
full time people fully distributed in four continents.
Wow. speaks so
you have an HR department.
No, yeah, you're talking to it. Yeah.
You have one. Yeah. Wow, okay.
I mean, yeah, I spent a lot of my time just with, you know,
podcast education. Again. Starting from from the beginning
of literally how to plug in a microphone, how to pick a
microphone, that kind of thing? We do, we do two weekly, open
office calls where our customers can just join and just ask us
anything, we spend an hour talking to them about setting
stuff up. And then as you know, just cranking out as much
content as I can educational training content through YouTube
and through the the two podcasts that we do. And this just trying
to keep everybody, you know, leveled up. And you know, when
you ask the question before, like, does it matter that you're
on those charts? I mean, for me, it does, because it's just
awareness, right, as so many people just always recommending
the big guys, because it's a muscle memory thing to do. And,
you know, I come shouldering through on Twitter, and I'm just
like, hey, sure. Don't forget about us. We're here to
here's the question. You don't have to answer if you're not
comfortable. But when if people leave, too, they give you a
reason. And what what are the reasons? If they go to another
host? I mean,
yeah, I mean, most people leave because they just can't keep up
with podcasting. Yeah, yeah. They just they just fall off.
pochade. Yeah. And it's funny, like some of the episodes
listening to you before in the past is just getting the right
customer in and pushing them to the value for value models,
Satoshis, Umbral, servers, all of this stuff. So many people
are just like, Ah, how do I get the mp3 uploaded first? Yeah, of
course. Of course. Yeah. And we're like really, like, try to
make sure that they're comfortable and getting it
going. But I don't know, off the top of my head, why people might
switch to another host. If I would have clicked my finger in
the wind, it's the hot, you know, the hotness of dynamic ad
insertions? Yeah, like what everyone's like clamoring over
these? Yes.
So that would be my my next question. Do you offer
advertising services to your podcasters?
We don't. And I don't know if I want to go on the record saying
we never will. But it is definitely not in the roadmap.
Um, just because we feel what one I just don't like it, right.
I'm the CEO, I get to say I don't like it. So we're not
going to do it. Whether that's right or wrong. But but but
also, we feel that our customers and creators ability to control
their content and how their brand is represented to their
audience is maybe the most important thing we do. Right.
And to me, advertising introduces a huge opportunity
disprove that up for creators, they don't manage who's
advertising on their show, and what that represents to their
listeners, the congruency between that and their message
and their brand, they're going to lose trust of their
listeners. And especially dynamic ad insertion gives that
risk. And and so we think that there's a lot more power that we
can give to creators by by giving them a platform that they
own and control to, to sell content directly to to
subscribers, right? And so it comes to people making money
from their podcast, we're going, Hey, private podcasting, right,
not through Apple or Spotify, but hey, you own it. It's on
your WordPress site, or through one of our integrations, you own
the feed. We don't take any any cut out of this, right. It's
just something that you own entirely. And a lot of times, we
find that the folks that are the most successful with this
already have something else going on. Even they have a big
membership site, they have a course they have a big email
list. They want to reach that audience through podcasting,
right, in a unique and special way. Not like conventional, you
know, open public podcasting. And so that that's the reason
that we're that we're not doing ads, and I don't I mean, I can
look even through next year, through 2022, we're not going to
do it, then.
Yeah, that that makes a lot of sense. There's, you know, it's
funny how you say that, you know, ad insertion is the new
hotness, and you're totally right, but then it's funny how
many, how many hosts are hosting companies. successful ones have
just not embraced that at all. And it doesn't seem to be
hurting their business one bit. And I've heard, you know, like,
taught, like Todd Cochran has said multiple times on on his
podcast that they routinely see podcasters leave their platform,
go to a platform that offers di and then after a few months,
they come back and they're like me, no, I didn't make that much
money. It's really disruptive. The my listeners hated it. And
I'm just coming back. I don't I mean, I don't think the promise
of the AI outside of a specific content demographic, I just, I
don't see it being a big, big power player within
an industry and I'm, I'm presuming that people, they're
not going for the hot di they're going for oh, I can make money
over there. Because I don't think they immediately they just
think, oh, I can make money and it's all automatic. I don't have
to do anything. Yeah. Okay. So that's this thing called shows
up on your podcast and the hell's Pringles advertising on
my show for
Yes. So what can we do to make value for value? The hot thing
that brings people to cast dos?
You want to go first, Greg? Yeah, go? Let's go first. Yeah.
Yeah, uh,
you know, I think, first and foremost, the, the apps. This is
my this is my own opinion.
You're entitled, your opinion,
was the boardroom brothers protected speech in here. This
is, I say, space, the new podcast apps calm. They're doing
fantastic. The apps do have to get smoother, they got to get a
little bit sexier, they get to get a little bit easier to use.
And I think once we start getting over that hump, you'll
be able to transition. A lot more people who are stuck on
overcast or Pocket Casts, then you'd have to fall apps, right?
That's from that's from my thing. So sure. I'm, like, we're
all power users. So we all like collect a couple of pints like I
have, I don't know, three or four new podcast apps on my
phone. And I'm always dipping into them to see like, what's
happening, what's going on. But I still default to Pocket Casts.
Sure, why not a habit, but to just because like the usability
of it. So if we can, I think one apps can just improve their
usability and there, can you
can you define that usability?
Um, I think a lot of the things like the same issue you had with
fountain? If I were to say that, what's my favorite new podcast
app, it would be fountain. And I've reached out to getting the
name of Oscar, Oscar. Oscar, reached out to me on Twitter
once one because I had an issue signing up. But then two, I had
the same issue. I think that you ran into Adam with the
transcripts. I was trying to do a booster gram. I'm like,
where's the where's the transcript? And they said,
loading loading. And I'm waiting. And I'm like, why?
What's going on? And I just kept asking, and I was asking, was
this thing crashing? Is it not working? Things like that. And,
you know, putting shows into playlists and snappiness of an
app, I think really going to matter, to not get a new user
frustrated, who's who's already just coming online to
podcasting. And they're like, I just want something fast and
easy to use. And then I'll get up, I'll become better at it
later on.
So I didn't hear you mention any of the features. So none of the
features entice people enough to try out the app. There's not a
moment where they think, Oh, this is this is cool, because
there's something better here something different.
Oh, no, I mean, I Yeah. As in terms of the apps, I think the
Yeah, booster gram functionality. I use the let me
just pull it up in front of me. The one that only loads on the
web right now, which Adam I think you years
caster, curio caster. Yeah, like that's,
you know, the chapters, everything in those apps are all
very attractive for me to use and try out this stuff. But I
think for the average user, things have to just get a little
bit more polished.
Yeah, I think I hear what you're saying. Because you don't what
you don't want is just a whole bunch of apps that feels sort of
like beta software. You right? You want them to have a certain
level of polish.
That's so interesting. I have I don't feel like any of this
stuff is beta doesn't feel like that at all. To me. I mean, I'm
almost I'm also not really an app user, I use a browser on my
phone. So I'm delighted with POD friend and curio caster, and I
don't use the Twitter app, you know, all that stuff. So
probably before,
as developing as developers, you know, y'all probably know that,
you know, you're resonate with this is, it's not that it's beta
software, it's that there's always there's a certain
maturity level that you have to reach with any package with any
piece of software that you have to have, you have to learn all
the stuff that is wrong, it breaks. And yeah, with a podcast
app is a complex piece of software, just like a podcast
hosting platform is. So for those first, you know, few
months, a year, two years, however long that's gonna take
it, you have to learn all the things that maybe this other
podcast app or platform already learned, you know, five years
ago, you got to go through that same process. And it's not that
it's necessarily shoddy software. It just hasn't reached
the maturity level of, you know, of polish that something that
has as an established, you know, pedigree has. Yeah,
I think something that y'all mentioned earlier about, like,
developers making Twitter the platform it is and I think the
same thing needs to happen and like if the things that we're
talking about are successful, it will be because podcasters opt
in support them and spread that word to other people that
hallelujah that are in the space. Because I mean, it is.
Similarly just a very I don't know referral base before
referral based kind of communication within the
podcasting space, right. It's like, you use an app because
someone else mentioned it, and people choose Castillo's or
Lipson or whatever based on you know, their friends experience.
Yeah. And for things like value for value. It's gonna be like a
case study, but like a friend that had success with it, and
then they tell their podcasting, buddy, and and it catches on and
it just from a meta level, yeah, so
the beauty is, with value for value streaming payments, we
satisfy both people, we satisfy the podcasters, who are looking
for something sexy, maybe an easy way to get some money in
without having to think about it, in this case, completely,
non disruptive. And that also the motivation there for someone
to use a new podcast app or one that at least has the value for
value built in. So the common denominator, there is value for
value. Because people, people will try any app that does it.
And they'll wind up with one that they'll just use. And they
might only use it for that show, which as I said at the beginning
of this episode is not what you want. But at least that way we
can start and I would also encourage the app developers to
make it really clear on your app somewhere that you take
feedback. You know, you'd be surprised how often, you know.
And I actually expect Martin to understand exactly what I'm
talking about. Because I get notices from people regularly,
like well, I notified the developer that, you know, it's
like, wow, what a distance there is between, you know, I talked
to Martin Reuter. I know, I posted something over here, and
Martin talked back to me. And, you know, it seems like we've
all gotten into this, here's the form you must fill out for some
feedback for the developer. You know, it's not it's as a user is
like, fuck that don't feel like doing that one star. That's our
feedback.
happens in the WordPress space. Sure is that that's what happens
to our WordPress plug in all the time. They they don't know how
to record an episode. And they say, Well, your plugin sucks.
One Stop.
Right? Yep. What I would like to see, I'm in this to kind of go
down this road and see what y'all think about this. This
kind of ties in back into attribution of, of a hosting
platform like cast owes me and me and Matt in is it Alec? Is
that Yeah, who we talked to as well? Yeah. Okay. So me and Matt
and Alec, you know, had a chat a few weeks ago, and we were
talking about, you know, one thing I brought up is I wanted
to get this attribution thing, right. And I think Alec was
going to work on trying to get like a generator tag into the
feeds that are produced by the, by the WordPress plugin, and
they all have, so that we could key on that and give a more
accurate number. In if that. So one thing that ties back into
that one thing that I think would be really cool, is to have
the podcast apps surface, who the host is a little bit more
who the hosting company is, like, somewhere in the UI, or,
or somehow show, you know, well, this, this feed, this podcast is
being hosted by casters, or rss.com, or Buzzsprout, or
whoever. Like, I think that there's, I think there's room to
put that type of thing into an app. Because it for a couple
reasons. It it, it gives people exposure to a little bit of the
backend of how podcasting it operates. This sort of, you
know, Borg hive that podcasting is, and it also lets people see
if they want to start a podcast, it gives them names that they
can associate with, it's sort of like a brand, brand awareness
for all these different hosting options that they have. And then
so in that's important, because you have a lot of, you know, the
the apps, the podcasting apps, this is all we all depend on
each other. The podcast apps depend on the hosts depend on
the creators depend on the host. It depends on the apps. I mean,
we're all interdependent here. And so the apps sort of will
benefit from from promoting the hosting companies. Is this crazy
talk? I mean,
no, I think especially if you can align the support of like
the new namespace tags, from podcast hosting companies in the
mobile apps to say to listeners a year you know this This show
is hosted by caste as it supports this tag this type of
this tag. So it's a richer experience. Right? I mean,
that's that's a lot of what you're going for is like a
richer listening experience and interaction with the host, in a
way through things like transcripts. And I think that
surfacing that would show the listener Hey, you know, this
show is hosted by a platform that that supports a lot of this
to give you the best kind of podcasting experience possible.
That to me, that's the biggest upside of that. Yeah,
I see that. So you just mentioned transcripts? Are you
putting these into a namespace tag the transcripts?
Yeah, it's definitely coming. It's a it's a bigger project
than just that on our end, which is why we didn't release it with
the other namespaces that we that we began supporting about a
month ago. But it's definitely on the radar. Yeah.
So tell me about the integrations. How does that
work? And how do I get a value for value streaming integration
in here?
I think that the last part is a bigger is a bigger question. But
our integration so far, kind of fall into two categories. One is
to repurpose audio content into different formats. So if an
automated transcription service that transcript that transcribes
audio into text, we have a YouTube republishing, takes the
audio reformats at his video and publishes to YouTube. Got it. So
that's kind of one category, that we have an open API that
anybody can use to build whatever kind of tools they
want. And the other one is ways to connect casters and private
podcasting to other tools you use, like we launched an
integration with ConvertKit. Last week, where say you have a
tag in your ConvertKit, you know, mailing list that's
applied. And that person gets added in Castillo's as a prize
subscriber, your private podcast, two buckets of
integrations and we're building a lot more of the second one
over the next few months.
So I'm going to make it my mission, I have a dog now you
can hear, I'm going to make it my mission to see if I can get
Steven B to connect curio caster to your API and get you some new
customers and and get a front to back solution going because he's
going to be outputting, all kinds of stuff, including
chapter JSON files, etc.
Awesome. Yeah.
That'd be awesome.
Yes, you know, so that's something that would work, then
you're looking at the backend API that an app could look into
in order to publish.
Yes, you Yeah. To create new content? Yeah. I don't know
about like adding new tags and namespaces via the API like net
currently, that that doesn't exist. But as we support
additional tags in the future, those would all be kind of, you
know, aspects of like posting or updating, you know, episode.
Yeah. Okay.
That's not really talk here. Sorry. You're talking to two
people that are not developers. So
yes, you know, the interesting thing about the interesting
thing about about posts like this, where your your customer
base is distributed. They're not It's not centralized hosting, is
where, where do you put into mp3? Where do you put that in
these assets? Are those hosted on the individual WordPress user
sites? Are they hosted with you guys?
Yeah, they're hosted with us. Yeah, no. So I think there's two
ways you could do it right. If you use the WordPress plug in a
few seriously simple podcasting, you can self host your files,
and then everything lies on your WordPress site and that server,
or to offload that resource utilization from your, your
WordPress, or if you're on shared hosting or whatever. It's
just not going to work if you have a successful podcast or you
publish a lot. And so you connect the casters, and then
when you go to publish a new episode from WordPress, the
files are uploaded automatically to cast it. And then they're
served from our infrastructure. I
really liked this. And the RSS feed is also uploaded from
WordPress to the storage. Okay. And the API allows for other
files to be transferred or could be adapted adopted, I guess.
Yeah, like images and things like that are uploaded. So the
final question is, and this will be more for Matt. So let's say,
you know, all of a sudden, we have curio caster and a couple
other let's just start with your cast. Because I know that that's
even thinking about it connected, that's going to place
burden on you. Because people are going to call and say, Look,
I got a cure for cancer, but it's not working. How does that
how does I'm just why I'm looking at from all the angles.
I don't want to push on something that's going to swamp
anybody, you know?
Yeah, I mean, that's a realistic thing, right? So these features,
we'd love to fire off features and integrations as fast as we
can. But we, what we do internally is we document like
what our project might be, we present it to the team, we write
a blog post that's not published yet and we just get all of our
thoughts. Oh yeah.
That won't work for me. No, I can't be a fucking, we're just
gonna do it. Well, we'll show up.
But we build all the training material around it right,
hopefully before we launch so that when that person knocks day
one, we have some resource, some utilization that we can hand to
them and say, look, here's how you do it. We've already
documented I got a video on it, or join us on Tuesday or
Thursday, when we have our open office hours and we'll walk
right? Well, I'll tell you why I'm excited about this type of
integration. I like integration as a term in general. Because in
December, we're going to see musicians coming with albums.
And they're going to want to also host and I hope that there
will be one or two app developers who will create a
music version that kind of sits on top of the entire
infrastructure we've already built. So you can you know, have
value for value for your music in the same back end, you know,
but then essentially have an app that would say, Oh, here's your
music app. And it would upload the mp3 and the RSS feed into
costos. For the user, they would order for the podcast or for the
musician, they wouldn't even really know they don't have to
understand that it's a podcast infrastructure. I just see this
coming. So I'm trying to set us up for it.
Yeah, yeah. No, that's, that's, that's fantastic. I mean, right
now, app development, the new podcast, app developers should
be knocking on the doors of hosts like this, like us. I
don't want I don't want to have them go to my competition, but
knock on our door for sure. But like when I see my competition,
say things like, Oh, we're supporting, you know, brand
scripts in the namespace now. It's like, hey, that's great.
But which apps? Are you telling your customers to use? Because
what Yes, yes. You know, yes. That's what drives me nuts. The
most is like you can grandstand all day that, hey, you're
supporting transcripts. But where do you have a relationship
with a new podcast? app developer? Very good, man. Thank
you. No, yes, yes, kinds of things. And that's why it's slow
to roll out for us, because it's just a lot of stuff. And you
know, we're not a massive team. And I want to be able to
coordinate this so that when we launch it, yeah, it's, it's a
little bit smoother for the customer.
But there seems to be just from, you know, the hosting companies
that I've talked to over the, you know, over the months and
years is that there seems to be a sort of two camps. And you
either fall into one or the other depending based on what
how you look at features and rollouts. You have sort of one
camp to says, We're not going to do anything, unless we have our,
our, our customers asked for it. And you got this other camp that
says we are we see these things as good ideas, to push, you
know, to push our product forward. We're going to go ahead
and do them, we're going to implement them and roll them
out. And then we then we're going to educate our customers
of what the benefit of this thing we just gave them is. And
I see y'all in the second camp. And I'm not saying necessarily
one is better than the other. But I will say that the we're
not going to do anything, we're not going to add any new
features until our customers ask for it. That seems like a recipe
for just stagnating. Right. Yeah.
And you know, this is podcasting has always been a slow grower,
just it's slow. It just takes time. And I know, we're all used
to instant gratification, and oh my god, they're doing
transcripts at Amazon. That doesn't matter. You know, we
just need to stay the course. And I really appreciate this
conversation, because, and Matt, thank you for saying it. You
know, there does need to be constant improvement. And you do
need to be talking to your, to your users who are using your
app, and you do need to just keep iterating and Dave, you're
right, it just takes time before something's polished. I mean,
Freedom controller working on it for 35 years. I mean, it's still
not polished. And I just found shortcuts you know, you didn't
know existed before. So that and that's that's just what it is,
you know, and it just takes time to build and iterate and polish
and make better and, and more communicating. I totally agree.
There's a lot of we should this is Baba. But you know what?
Someone's got to reach out talk to Matt say, hey, you know, I
have this app. This is here's where I'm Matt, let's open a
channel of communication. Everybody knows everybody. I
think almost everybody has an account on podcast index.
Yep. Dot social.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, we're I mean, I look at the podcast host is like
where we're at the gates like podcasting is still growing
super fast as everyone on this call and listening probably
knows. And sometimes we're like, holding back the doors from the
masses of people trying to come in. And we can't, we can't keep
up sometimes with the new customers coming in. just
training onboard them. And, you know, I put out that video about
setting up the Spinx chat app and all this stuff. And I had
people emailing me like, so when I signed up, I signed up,
where's my lightning node? Like, it's not there yet. Like, you
know, so it's a challenge. So yeah, well,
and what i All I want is for us to get on your roadmap, you
know, and, and so the, all of the and I, for me, personally,
that means, how do we integrate something value for value this
easy for your customers just to take? And it's like, Okay, I've
got a wallet now I can receive. That's pretty much it. And I
think podcast index may be able to deliver that whether ln pay
partnership. That's, that's what Dave, I'm just speaking out
loud.
Yeah, I heard you.
You know, that seems like a really easy one to Hey, Is it
done yet? That sounds like a really easy one to tackle, you
know, or, or a good way for us to get on your roadmap so that
we can add that in? Because you're already doing all the
tags at your at your own pace?
Yeah, I think that, you know, to Dave's point of kind of to two
types of hosting providers, I would also kind of put it into
their hosting providers that are closed systems. And I'm not
talking about the the big S, but but their hosting provider. But
but but I think our nature, right, coming from WordPress,
and integrating, like, literally right off the bat is just a big
part of what we're doing, and how we see the value of a
platform like ours, working in conjunction with things that
y'all are doing and other tools that podcasters using, you know,
we say like, we want to be the center of the audio universe,
right of our customers auto universe, because we know we
can't do everything right? So like, why not? Say, Hey, we're
gonna integrate with the best in class of this and the best in
class of that to give our customers and their listeners,
like, the best overall experience and the choices to
say, hey, I want to use this, and I won't use this. I don't
want to use that. So yeah, I mean, definitely, on the radar.
And, and just in general, like we're, we're big fans of
integrating our way to delivering everything that our
customers need. Because I don't, I don't think anybody can build
best in class of everything.
I feel like there's this pressure that has happened with,
you know, the players like Spotify and, and an Apple and
Amazon coming in. I mean, I feel like there's been this weird
pressure where it's like it other other players in the
industry feel like they have to go proprietary in order to
compete. Yeah, where they're gonna get passed, passed by.
And, you know, our, our ethos from the beginning is, is that's
the complete opposite of what you should do. You don't you
don't get more proprietary, you get more open. Because open. I
mean, just just like, you know, there's this, there's that old
notion, or the the, the famous quote from Steve Jobs where he
said, you know, we need to get as for Apple, we need to get
over this idea that in order for Apple to win, Microsoft needs to
lose. And that I feel like that applies here as well, you know,
in order for open to win doesn't mean that closed has to lose.
Look at look at Linux and and windows. I mean, they're two,
there's a close as a closed architecture and an open
architecture. And they both have a mid success now. The but the
beauty of openness is that you don't you get is like we talked
about before you get interrupt for free. It's built in, it's
built into the system. And so, you know, just just by nature of
caste o's and, and podcast index speaking the same open standard
language. Oh, we just get we just get this interop I mean, we
didn't have to we didn't
we didn't have to buy you. We didn't have to buy we didn't
certainly didn't have a meeting. Yes, exactly.
You don't have to have webinars and meetings and everything. It
just you just let it fall and do it.
And roadmaps. Yeah, roadmap? Well, for sure. All of these
companies, I can predict it for you right now. They all have to
have a Bitcoin strategy. And now that the mayor elect of New York
has just said that he wants to have his first three paychecks
paid in Bitcoin. I think it's time that everybody considers
having a Bitcoin strategy. And em that Bitcoin strategy can be
to buy little bits of Bitcoin, or the strategy can be to do a
little bit of effort putting a little bit of effort, and if
people send it to you, that's your Bitcoin strategy. If you're
an app developer, there's your bit, you know, you have a
Bitcoin strategy, the big boys are doing it, and one of them's
gonna wake up and they're gonna, you know, and they say, you
know, this is a cool thing. We're gonna do this and we're
Gonna, we're going to take 20% of all of your Satoshis. And
people will like it.
That's amazing. That's amazing.
It's really, it's really easy. I think that's what Matt was
getting at before it has to be just literally a click of a
button. Sure, yeah,
it can be literally a click of the button. Just has to be done.
I mean, yeah, anything can be done. I mean, I can see exactly
how it would be done people. So I want us to make it their
business we're going to try, but part of it, which will probably
be more open, but hopefully someone picks that up and says,
I can probably make a service and business around this.
Yeah, it's it's amazing to think that just now we're seeing all
of them in the mayor of Miami is now amaze, taking his full
paycheck and Bitcoin, like, we're starting to see this stuff
that would have been unthinkable. Or just like, who
would uh, it's amazing that we're starting to see this type
of thing from elected officials say that this is kind of what
you would have thought of as a you know, crazy people would do
that. And then that was it. Aaron Rodgers, I saw he's taking
part of his paycheck in Bitcoin. This is a thing like this is
becoming an actual thing. That is that people are doing on a
large scale. It's pretty, it's it's almost disorienting a
little bit
is a human thing, right? Because I mean, electricity when it
first came out, and people are like, I just want to use candles
for the rest of my life. I don't want light bulbs, right? Or
cars, I'm going to stick to horses, right. And everyone on
the fringes was always like, that's a crazy idea, the web
right when it first started, and we'll we'll all probably be
laughing about this in you know, 20 years when we're like, yeah,
what? Yeah, what we were doing back then. It's just, it's just
the way it is now. Humans
will definitely be laughing because in 20 years, our 28
million Satoshis in the index is going to retire. Yes. Myself and
my two partners. Which leads me to perhaps a good moment to
remind everybody about the value for value concept. Here's your
cue to boost you know, you want to Yeah, we know you've been
boosted throughout the show already. And we also like to
thank people who send in their Fiat fun coupons through PayPal,
which you can find a podcast index.org at the bottom, the big
red donate button but we really love the booster grams. We love
the the per minute Satoshis you know, set that as high as you
think it's worth. That's what it's all about value for value
is this podcast valuable the entire concept. You're the one
that keeps it running. So put that down and put it in a number
send it back to us. And Dave, you have your papers, papers to
Russell.
Yeah, you guys want to stick around first and Mr. Graham's?
Yep. Yes. Good. Yep. Well, right off the bat. We've got I was
gonna add a note on here that says that we're in a PayPal
recession. But then rss.com ponied up with $800.57 writes
right before the show. And been@rss.com What was the number
$800.57 She explains it he says squint hard enough and you might
read 8057 as boost.
Oh, wow. Okay, I like that.
I like that. On the list.
Yes, this this is a from hence on it should be known as an
rss.com Boost.
Sadly, the inability to find time to set up a node means that
instead of sending 80,057 says we're sending the equivalent of
1,298,432 sets. James Cridland Is there a boost boost? Admin
day. Thanks again for enhancing podcasting for everyone via the
namespace improvements. We know it's only a matter of time
before the functionality made possible by the new namespace
tags, disrupts the incumbents and improves podcasting for
everyone. Not just the early adopters and the visionaries.
You guys are leading a lot of innovators and Clayton
Christensen's theory of the innovators dilemma we'll hold
true again. Go podcasting your friends at RSS Alberto Ben SSPs.
Adam, don't be a hill country snob and come by for a visit.
I'll buy you lunch.
Yeah, man, I'm coming down for sure. For sure. Yeah, I got to
see. Steven B. He's in San Antonio. Like all these people
are not even that far away. That's so nice, man. Thank you
so much. You guys are great. They've been spun. They've been
promoted. They've been really supporting us these levels from
day one.
You need to do the brisket tour. The Texas Tour. Oh yes. Yeah, we
got to gas from Rhode Island here. You're both in Rhode
Island, right?
I'm in mass.
But yeah, we're in Rhode Island.
Barrington.
My mom went to Barrington high. Oh, wow. Yeah, world. Yeah. My
mike my great grandfather played for Pawtucket something or other
Oh yeah. Yeah.
Yep. So you're not you're not in Rhode Island but you're from
there. Is that right man?
No, I'm just I'm 15 minutes away from Barrington. I'm in
Massachusetts Dartmouth,
Dartmouth. Okay, gotcha. See, I didn't even say I thought Rhode
Island was a myth. I didn't think it actually existed
because I've literally never in my entire life met anybody from
Rhode Island. But now there's there there's one and one person
that can vouch for him. So I think I'm stand corrected. Let's
see we got a booster grant from Who's it from Cass Pilant. He
says, says 4000 SAS he says, I pi hold the crap out of that.
Haha boost. I don't know what he's talking about. Okay. Okay,
whatever. Let's see. We got an anonymous boost. Well, no,
sorry. No, no, miss. Just no message from John's BRT. 4900
SAS Thank you, Joey. Got a 17 Ooh, this is from Brian of
London and he says I'm going to add 1948 to the GitHub list.
Okay, and in buddies buddy boosted 17 146 sets and alright.
Oh, Dad, Brian,
man. He's he is the the Dan Brown of podcasting. 2.0 always
in riddles.
Oh, James Grantland. 222 sets he says great to hear Benjamin.
Thank you James.
Appreciate it's also known as a row of ducks. Yes, right.
Oh Brown of London again. He says that same message. I guess
he he corrected it. 1948 He says boost
Oh, give me a Fauci here.
Boost. Okay,
what are these other ones that I have here? Dave? You brought to
boost jingles.
Oh, that might be leftover from last week. Yeah,
Booth yesterday, right. Okay, remember? I'm not Oh, man. This
dog is excited.
Oh, yeah. Peter, the sloths as exhibit 777 SATs and he says
it's a real tragedy that the speaking of Bitcoin, formerly
known as let's talk Bitcoin podcast, with Adam Levin. And
Andreas Antonopoulos. And Stephen Stephanie Murphy. In
some other dude aren't on the podcasting. 2.0 Tip yet? Get on
it. Noobs
Yeah, you got you need to reach out to him. That's how it works.
You've got to tell your podcasters what you want. They
will listen.
Yeah, totally. It's a feedback loop. Okay, Oscar Maris in a row
of ducks, 2222 sets. And he says Adam couldn't agree more with
you on transcripts, what we need is a new open standard to add
the spit to the spec that includes the per word timings.
The challenge here is each commercial transcripts service
has a different output format. I will do some more research and
try to propose an update to the spec. We'll get there. Thank you
Oscar. Now, guys. So when y'all are working on your Trent, thank
you said you're working on transcript maybe for the future?
Do you have an idea of how you're going to go about that? I
mean, like would you make your own service or use some external
transcription service?
Yeah, I think like at a high level, so we already have an
external transcript service that that we connect with. Okay, but
I think the the reason that it's taken us longer to do this is we
want the ability for folks to be able to bring their own
transcript and put it in the system and have it, you know,
have that associated with a tag. Whereas now the only way we
could do it is if you use our transcript service. And that's
kind of back to the whole open nature of how we want to build
this is say, hey, like, Hey, if you used otter, or rev, or did
it yourself or whatever, you know, bring that drop it in. And
when you're creating your episode, and that's the that's
what the tag references instead of, hey, this is the you know,
Casta supports the transcript tag, only if you use our service
that we you know, charge for. So we want to make it a little
more, a little more open and inclusive, rather than just
something that that's part of our system. That
that's something that non developers routinely don't
understand is that in a situation like this, when you're
talking about having either or at building two pathways, is
always complex. Just, you know, adding that one extra option,
whenever whenever you change something from a feature to an
option, where they can do it, we know where you can say, okay,
you can do it this way or this way. I mean, everything just
gets exponentially harder. It takes that
on WordPress or in casts because not the same place. Yeah,
that too. Now you get four pathways, you know, yeah, yeah.
Okay, we got a histogram from be even our 808 Those is a boob
boost.
Yeah. We don't have a jingle for that. Yeah, no damage. Boost.
Thank you babe in ours. See cast peeling against 2300 SATs. He
says thanks for the show for now. 34 Now 3300 set to show.
Okay. I understand it, but thank you Cass
drab. drab sent me a no Dred Scott who does our chapters and
he said, Oh my God, what was this boost? I mean, I got this
shoot. Did someone send 330,000 Satoshis? Alright, hold on a
second man. Let me show me some output. That's milset
Milissa.
Yes. Okay. Got
it. Yeah, for those that don't know, mill, mill Satoshis aren't
they're not a thing on the net on the Bitcoin Blockchain, but
they're an internal thing that you do, you can do within within
Bitcoin, like, it's internal to the system. But I mean, the
Satoshi is the smallest unit, you can actually trade on the
chain. James Cridland 222. Again, he says, Adam is right
about transcripts. Let's let's ask for per word transcripts. I
also think transcripts are the easiest way to get the namespace
into hosts and apps. I agree.
Yeah. And well, of course, the transcripts are being used
mainly by these companies for attribution for you know, first
AI scanning, you know, ad ads insertions where they work. You
know what relevance I mean, they're completely new mining.
It's like having Amazon probe you Ainley just just
add a service from AWS. Yes, it
is. Yes. It's the analog, the analog web services.
Nice.
It's actually part of the advanced network analysis
language. I've been working on
your rare form today I have a friend.
It's the dog he got finally got her calm here.
Yale, send us el Ostrovsky. I know this guy. We've known each
other for a long time. Good. Good guys. Send us 1500 SATs and
he says, Oh, y'all much more value for value. But here's my
shot. Trying to make our radio show the first with podcasting.
2.0. Is this been claimed yet? No. Thinks?
No, I don't think so.
His his radio show is called consumer choice radio. Bill
prog. Send us 1000 SATs and he says despite you still ignoring
the easiest way for decentralized cross platform
comments, here's a small donation guy asked me.
He doesn't give us ignoring it. He doesn't give us the clue. He
didn't give us the answer. What do it's so simple. What do I
have to do?
No, no, no, I don't think he did. And he must know and he's
keeping it all to himself. Okay.
Oh,
I know. I'm an idiot. Bill. He's a hive guy.
Oh,
yeah. Yeah, we've had guys everything's been saying the
answers. It doesn't matter what the question is. Yes. Hi.
Honey, what did you do with the with the with the lighter hive?
Hive? What do for lunch? Hive. aerostatic us into 1376 sets.
And he says boosting for drab. Oh, okay. Proxy booth. drab get
some stats from somebody who's not? Excuse me. Steven B from
curio casters in his 5000 SATs and he says, Can you guys tell
the story of how you two were introduced, connected and
started working together? Maybe too long of a story for today.
Let's do it next week.
Next week. I'll write it on Write this down that we talked
about that? How how we met What was our meet aversary
or meet a verse. I do want to hear how you how Matt, how you
and Craig got together. Did you? Were you working on this on the
WordPress plugin? before? We all like before y'all had a working
relationship together? How did that come about?
That Oh, your side of the story? Yeah.
Yes. I had my no pressure,
no pressure
press podcast and, you know, just talking to people who are
building stuff with WordPress and obviously came across Greg
because I was podcasting. He started a podcast company, a bot
that like required that plugin. And then I won't name which
podcast host that was at prior to Craig. No, but you know, as
soon as I saw his software was way easier. I was like, I'm just
switching because it's just so much easier.
Just wait until they get Lipson five up. Yeah.
They said two years ago, um, and then we started working together
about a year ago.
Okay, that's so yeah. So you're you came on board recently.
You're not like employee number three or something.
I'm not employee number three, but I'm ID number three in the
database. Because he Craig reached out to me. Right when he
started the the hosted version.
Can you can you corroborate the story as truthful?
That's mostly true. Yeah. But I mean, it's just like everyone
has their like, because of podcasting. I whatever. And I
think that's, that's like the case, right? Because of
podcasting. I knew Matt. And because of, you know, my
podcast, Matt and me, and like, we've been listening to each
other's podcasts for years before we got a chance to work
together. And it just accelerated the trust so much,
even ahead of him actually working here. As I reached out
to him, I was like, Hey, we're about to launch this thing. Can
you kind of come in and, and beta test this? And that's,
that's why he's ID number three in the databases. He was one of
our very first kind of beta testers and users. And yeah, I
just think that it's, it's just one, one more of the many
examples of how like, just putting this content out there
having it be open and available to everybody. Just lets you get
to know folks in a really cool way that that can lead to so
many different things. And in this case, yeah, Matt and I
working together and the decision to hire him was like,
really simple. Just because I've, you know, been on his
podcast, he's been on mine, I've listened to dozens of hours of
him, and vice versa. So it's just like that trust is already
there.
And yeah, that's, that's, that's interface always. Yeah, but you
develop a working relationship. And then it's like, hey, let's
actually start working together in Maine. It may it makes a lot
of sense. Yeah. And says a chip 98 gave us 13 130 so late, late
boosts. Can I get a go podcasting? Thank you to
everyone for all your awesome efforts.
Of course.
aerostatic again, gave us 2376 And he says, this is an
aerostatic a personal standard boost. PSB. Okay, I like to say
anonymous boost 16,000 SATs. Whoa, and this is through Brees.
And he just says he or she says emptying my wallet in gratitude,
drink and treat, gentlemen. Thank you. Thank you.
I like that. Yeah, but did you remember to fill it up? Fill it
up again.
Yeah, well, you can fill it back up. Yeah. Jim 98. Again, he has
1212 1226 SATs and he says this is for the charity fund.
Yes, I was going to mention the lightning podcast charity fund.
We still have them in our value block have not heard back from
from Oscar. But hopefully, hopefully he's going to put that
to good use.
Yes, a good way for onboarding just give out some stats you
know, that's a tried and true old Bitcoin method of the faucet
and then how it works back Yes. How
it works.
Sir Pete gave us 5000 SAS and he says podcast and chillin
Yes, sir. Bait.
Thank you, buddy. Anonymous 1111 SATs through breeze and you just
says boost
yo, we got it for you. Most
relaxed. Let's see relaxed male. This is 1000 SATs. He says y'all
are great. Thanks for everything y'all are doing go podcasting.
Anonymous, this just says from breeze and it's 100 sets Thank
you breeze gets in the breeze has become a artificial
intelligence and is now sending us ads. This oh and for mere
mortals Kira and our buddy Karen over there since 234 says and he
says can't remember if I boosted or not asked him sets good
serves.
Thank you, Gary.
I do that too. I'll forget if I boosted up. Yeah, here James
read like three of my boots on the show.
That's why I like having wallet history. Oh, yeah, a couple of
apps out that is pretty cool.
And that's our base grants and then our monthly donors. Droid
works. LLC $20 Scott Gaubert Jalbert $12 Mark, gram $1 Joseph
Baraka $5 David Mitas from Fun Fact Friday podcast. $10 Cameron
rose, the cameras been here with us for a long time. $25 and
Jeremy new $5 Thanks, guys. That's our group.
Yeah, thank you all very much. Keep it coming. Keep keep Yeah,
the booster grams. And this is this is like a transition. And
we were probably making less money on the incident incoming I
think. Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. So but we're
still okay, I've got to talk to Eric. What No ever call Monday
we're gonna see if we still got money.
Yeah, we so we don't ever talk and like hardly hardly at all
except signal chat and so every now and then it's like hey,
maybe we actually need to be a business once
yeah we're supposed to have quarterly calls which we're now
it's kind of the scheduler but I'm delighted I'm delighted by
the by the conversion to booster grams is really good y'all just
need to up the up the ante or just boost more
and so y'all said that y'all are neither one of y'all are
developers but you run a urine to WordPress podcast Matt one
well yeah, I cannot be developer Yeah.
Oh you know enough to be dangerous used to be used to run
a WordPress agency where we develop we design and develop
sites but it was just about the know how of it and then you
know, putting people in place to actually do the smart stuff but
I cover a lot of it from the business side where the
WordPress on the WordPress side because it's like podcasting
there's a there's a bunch of businesses in there that people
don't know about that are pretty big and making a nice chunk of
change selling WordPress plugins and themes. So it's an
interesting space but one that doesn't get looked at other than
wordpress.com which is worth millions Yeah,
well that what So Craig what what is your development
background? Did you come out of out of that same arena?
No, yeah, my background is actually in sales. So come at it
from an ops and sales and marketing perspective and sales
in Wakefield. Yeah, so I in a previous life, I was in medical
device sales. So working for kind of big cardiac medical
device company and yeah, just totally kind of early midlife
crisis. I guess. It's like, anymore like being away from my
family and all and just an opportunity to talk all day in a
really to take all
those hospital people out for dinner and you got to Oh, man.
Yeah, it's tough. I've been I've been watching dope sick. Have
you heard about this? Series? Dope Sick is on. I think it's on
Hulu. And it's about it's Michael Keaton produced it. And
it's about the the opioid, the entire opiate scandal, I should
say, starting with the Sackler family, but then it's, you know,
it's heavily based upon how doctors were, you know, honestly
kind of roped in, you know, it's like, hey, come to our retreat,
and there's pretty girls there, and it's all animated and the
Hey, you can join our speaker's bureau and like,
yeah, it's wild. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, just Yeah. Long hours,
big stress with my family. Now I have more stress, but with my
family, which is really, really good trade off how many kids
you have? Have to bless you. Yeah. And that's including Matt
or Matt, you have your own.
In another life, I was a car salesman, actually. That's what
I that's what I grew up in my family on a car dealership.
roping God that's
not that's not just being a car salesman, man. That's that's an
American empire right there. Yeah. Car Dealership. Love that.
Yeah, my son, my mom's brother. What was your dad? A Chevrolet
dealership in Rhode Island.
Oh, heard? No, no, no. Massey?
No. Why can I not remember her maiden name now? A Hawks? Oh,
yeah. Yeah, talk Chevrolet.
Yep. We were Yeah, we were Chevrolet. Yeah, we were rouse
Chevrolet those my grandfather started.
Oh, man. I got to come to Rhode Island now and hang out. We got
a party. I got a party. Now. We got to go down memory lane. Very
cool.
Let's see. That's, that's all I got. I got to get back to work.
So yeah, that's how this Yep, yeah, this was, uh, this was
great. I've been hoping to have you guys on for a long time.
Just because I feel like, there. There's so there's so much
centralized hosting out there that is so rare to see somebody
doing things in the way that y'all are doing it. I just think
it's great. I mean, it's open source to like, taken, taken to
the architectural level within the service. And I love it. I
think it's, I think it's fantastic.
That means a lot. Thanks. Thanks. Maybe Maybe Matt and I
can come back on and we can talk about IAB. Oh, yeah, right.
Oh, yes.
That would be hilarious. It will listen you're going to be
hearing from me because I really would like to see how we can
become an integration ons good on your platform because I know
that once once one hosting company can knows how to offer
this. And by that I mean special focus on max job right? It's
like how can we make this not just easy from interface
experience, user experience, but also, you know, just simplicity
of understanding and seeing the flows of what's going on. That'd
be great. Because I know that I know everyone's going to be all
jacked up and want to do it. So you know, because that's going
to be, I think, a real unique, unique thing that won't take too
much. It really won't take much infrastructure from you because
it all runs elsewhere.
Yeah, right. Yeah, we'd love to Yeah, absolutely.
Where did it what's the best way to find you guys you want to
promote your podcast or anything that that you want people to
hear about to find you.
I want to plug my booster gram jingle in the boost Bay GitHub
crap, which was committed 11 days ago. Oh, I
may. I may not have noticed. Which what's it called? I'm
opening up the boost date repo right now. This is as good as
the first
jingle I ever made. Alright, what's which one is booster?
Booster Graham corner underscore Mmm. It was committed 11 days
ago.
Okay in the in the boost bait
repo. Yeah. Booster, gram, huh? Oh, yeah. I see it. Here it is.
Okay. Trimmed for length. Is that what it is? Yeah, yes. Hold
on a second. Let me let me just important Yeah, this is I mean,
this is Hell yeah, man. Let's see what those are.
Because because the the it's a full package. It's like It's
like the Mr. T starter kit of Yeah. Yeah, it
is. Mr. T starter kit. Alright, here we go. Now it's time for
the booster. Booster booster. Gram corner. Instagram corner. I
don't know a thing about crypto. Oh man, sweet. I love that. I
love it.
We did it. Can that be in the show too? Yeah, well,
hello. I just reracked it. Are you kidding me? That's
beautiful.
Nice. All right, Craig.
The top that?
I can't No. No, man, I can't I can't stop that. But no, I just
say it first. Thanks for having us on the show. Speak for Matt
like just a ton of fun to be here to chat with you guys. And
if folks want to check out what we're doing casters comm check
it out.
All right. Thank you both very much, Dave. Thank you feel
better, brother. It's sounds like you're already on the
upswing, though. That's the good news. And thank you. All right.
Hi. Thank you all for joining. We'll see you next week right
here for the board meeting of podcasting 2.0.
You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast.
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Now it's time for the booster booster booster Graham corner
Instagram corner. I don't know a thing about crypto podcast.