podcasting 2.0 for November 12 2021, episode 62 Dockerized
and good to go.
That's right. Double noted now. Hello everybody time once again
for the official meeting of the Board of Directors of
podcasting. 2.0 It's a podcast Go figure.
We discuss everything about podcasts index.org the podcast
namespace and of course, the true genius that takes place at
podcast index dot social. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of
Hill Country, Texas, and in Alabama wrangling JSON to the
ground. My friend on the other end, ladies and gentlemen, Mr.
Dave Jones.
A socialist is genius. But it's also it's been a little spicy
the last couple of days. Cuz you mean Alex gates? Yeah. Alex and
James getting in there. Oh, I missed that. What are you do?
Oh, about time codes and stuff like that. Yeah, like that. This
is good, man. Yeah, we need to have a friendly, friendly
challenge. Challenging atmosphere that push things
forward. You will also like the spicy Yeah. And you know, in a,
in a traditional corporate corporate environment, this was
all be on Slack behind the boss's back. No one would know
about it.
They're just Yeah, well, exactly. Exactly. So once again,
that's why it's so brilliant. Huh. That's where people are
feel like they can talk about stuff and give their opinions
and got nothing to lose by actually giving their opinion Go
figure. Yeah, and we in this group has proven that we can all
take criticism, and may and turn it into good stuff into you and
not like that. That's that's the best part of this whole was the
best part of the part of the whole project. You still sound
pretty nasal Lee. Yeah, it's just I mean, like, I started
feeling better. And maybe a day into the antibiotics I didn't
get some antibiotics maybe 10 days after this thing started
and then I started feeling better day or two and now I feel
like crap again. I don't know what it is. Is something going
around because
you don't know what it is?
No, nobody. I mean, the guests from my doctor was RSV but she
knows at this point I mean we may have you know like this
maybe like polio
I'm sorry I didn't mean to laugh let's let's say it's not polio
that would not not be good nothing nothing brings the room
down like a get polio Joe
know your audience Dave Jones
I don't know I'm alive though. Oh SAS sound like I sound like
I'm going to can you do sound a little bit that's just your your
pipes. Yeah, that's it. I mean, if nothing else changed my head.
Was pretty empty sound hollow? may not be good. I gotta tell
you I'm so sick of hearing myself. This past week. Yo,
yeah. I was on a podcast Oh yeah. Podcast two or so I was on
BTC sessions.
Wire Goodwin by the way. I like that. Thank you. It was
intimidating. Because yeah, the first 45 minutes these guys are
talking oh gee bitcoins stories. I'm like, I'm not quite sure
exactly what to say about all this. I'll just talking about
back in the day. And when and back in the day Bitcoin for you
was, I can't pay the rent with this stuff. Pretty much. It's
all very triggering to hear those stories. Like I don't want
to know about the 65 bitcoins I sold at 900. I don't want to
know that at all. I feel very, very poorly about this.
But I did not anymore because now you know, they're coming
back to me the SATs every single day. So excited. The farmer guy
was interesting was a farmer. Yeah, yeah, he's and he's
building a citadel, which is,
I guess the Citadel was kind of, it can be a real word. I think
he's doing a real world one, but you can do it as a virtual one.
It's just it's essentially people who are connected and do
commerce via Bitcoin. Which brings me to the second thing
which is Texas slim who I I had not done an interview for the
with Adam curry podcasts. It's
Oh, it's probably on April 2020. So the index was about the
deprioritize.
The feed was pretty, pretty crusty. And by the way, Texas
limb was doing the Texas Beef initiative is exactly one of
those one of those citadels where he's now onboarding
ranchers, onboarding people who can transport on that onboarding
retailers and ultimately consumers. And they're doing it
through an app. They have an app called oshi. Oh shi, and I think
oh, she is similar to strike that you can connect it to a
card or to a bank.
Shi Yeah, and
And and he already has a pretty big rancher on board in Austin
which is and this came to me through Marty bent so you know
it's it's it's official Bitcoin business
oshi support local earn Bitcoin Yeah. Yeah. And the pitch to the
ranchers and the retailers is well look is 2.7% right off the
top, you don't have to pay because you're not to pay those
fees,
your credit card fees, so why don't you you can keep that or
you could store it and keep it in the app and grow it. And they
all like this idea.
Anyway, so that so that's, that was the second thing. And then
based upon the BTC sessions, John through
GG interviewed me for closing the loop. You know, was that he?
Oh, yeah, of course, as that dropped headers, yes. That has
dropped Dave. This drops. It's, it's you're on the floor. And
I'm listening to all these podcasting. I'll go back and
listen, not for myself. But you know, what did I miss? What did
I miss? Understand? I listen to all interviews just to see if I
can. Did I understand what the question was, I'm anal like
that.
And I'm thinking holy crap, man. My mic sounds so damn good. It's
like you've been, you've been very me with this mo toolbox.
I've never given it up. I mean, I've tried everything. I was
like, no, no, no, nothing quite like this. It has just something
in it. That is just so nice. And it's and yeah, and you're on a
podcast, and I'm like, bam, I'm booming out. And the host is
like, so tell me a little bit about
like, we have so much to work on. Yeah, here. I'm seeing it.
Episode Nine can't stop the signal. Oh, I like it. Yeah,
it's a good good title. Chose a good title. I liked it. So as
Gigi on there with you? Mm hmm. Just this was just you and John
John. Yeah. Okay. And what was fun about it is I didn't know
this. He's in Dominican Republic. He's Canadian. But he
when they locked down Canada, he and his, his I think his
girlfriend, they escaped and they went to the Dominican
Republic. They've been there ever since. Oh, wow. Yeah,
that's one way to do it. Yeah. He's he said, I don't know if I
want to go back. Or if I can ever go back. That's always the
danger is, is who has it Ron Paul, back in the day say, hey,
when they're building border walls. Yeah. It's not to keep
them out as to keep you Exactly, exactly.
Now, I hadn't heard it yet. Indeed. I put it on. Download it
here. I I'm sad. But anyway, so my point was, I'm just sick and
tired of hearing myself like
I can't tell when you go silent for a while on, on chat and
signal and everything. I can tell you're just like, you know,
I'm sick. I'm sick of myself. I'm I need to go do something
else for a while. Well, actually,
that's interesting that that's how you perceive that.
It's usually because I'm super busy doing these damn
interviews. Yeah, that's that's usually what it is.
But I go to bed and I wake up with podcasting. 2.0 I gotta
tell you, I really do and, and I, I finally got my umbrella to
work.
And now now even more jacked. Yeah. Tell me about all this.
Tell me about Tell me about your my experience around Berlin.
Yeah, so I have I had the, the raspy blitz for a long time love
it, it works. But when I really understood what the Umbral was,
when I took a look at it, I said, Oh, this is kind of that
home server we were all dreaming about in 2000 but 20 years ago,
it's like on this thing, it'll, it'll store content. So the
whole again, the whole podcasting concept was developed
in 2000. With the enclosure tag podcasting itself didn't happen
until I saw my first iPod so that was three years this was
working and the whole thinking was you'd have Do you remember
the cube the cobalt cube another name I don't remember what it
was do a search right now. It's with sees the cobalt cube it was
blue. You wanted the you want the cube they had a rackmount
later. And this end it was a Linux box. And in this box, it
had Wi Fi in it. It had filesharing it had an email
server it had you know, basically your your mini ISP.
And now this was early early days, so a lot of things that it
didn't have or Oh, cute QUB e cobalt Q o whiskey. Oh, let's
write q UB. Oh yeah, yeah, I know this thing. I've seen this
mancia it ran red hat. Yes, I still have it. I found it when
we moved. You do not I do. I do. I do.
We should probably let's get that sucker. See what comes up.
It's got two network jacks on the back of it and an LED on the
back. Yeah LED screen on the LED was to to read the IP address.
So I think yes, like it's so it's got a USB port.
A DB non serial port.
Cool our right. Oh, that's nice. That's slick that looks like it
looks like an old Oh, is it the Mac cube? Yeah, I had that too.
I don't have that one anymore. And cube three. I think I have
the cube three. Now I'm looking at the power cord.
Unfortunately, I betcha I don't have that anymore. But it says
this model lacks the external scuzzy port.
I know what a bummer. Anyway, so that was kind of the dream is
that you'd have this box and it would, it would be a media
server. And mind you this is when Wi Fi was just coming out.
And I had I had repeaters all along the he had a foot off the
gentleman's canal in the Netherlands, bouncing off, you
know, three different friends homes. With repeaters. It was
some Australian, I think was the guys who invented it. Didn't why
wasn't Wi Fi invented in Australia. And that one's off my
radar screen. I don't know. I have obviously Wi Fi invented in
off. I love the internet. Let's see.
I believe it was who invented?
Oh, okay. Ars Technica says how the Aussie government invented
Wi Fi.
Hmm. Was that like their version of DARPA or something? Let me
see. Wi Fi technology. Yeah, was the Australian scientists from
the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research
Organization?
Who created the standard and I think was parrot was the
company. Parrot. Okay. Anyway.
So now I see this umbrella. I'm like, Holy shit, this is it.
It's got apps, it's got an app store makes total sense in the
in the context of today's computing systems that people
understand. And I had already tried to load this earlier I
had, I have a Surface Pro six, I bought one off of Amazon for
about 500 bucks, brand new. two terabyte SSD external drive,
jacking through USB 2.0 Just give you all the specs. And I
had loaded Linux Mint on it initially because I was going to
use it for something else and then I'll just do this Umbral.
So I ran there handy dandy start script. And it never came up and
it was just waiting. And then I could see in the log file that
all this Docker stuff was messed up. And so clearly, it wasn't
meant for a Linux Mint, even though they say it was. So I
flashed out the OS put on pure Ubuntu fired it up thing work
right away chain downloaded and synced with about 26 hours that
was faster than I thought it would be dead is really fast.
Yeah, well, I just part of it, of course, is the processor and
I have about 350 megabits download
at the house on the cable modem. So that's pretty good.
I mean, that's still pretty quick. And man took
nearly 72 hours. I'm at like, 250 Hmm. In the year that was
smoking fast. Mm hmm. And you know, and it's important,
because you're not just downloading, you're verifying
every single block. And I like how it shows you that which is
kind of cool. Well, that's the difference between a Raspberry
Pi and an actual computer. Yes. That extra process right there.
That right makes a huge difference. Yeah. And you know,
so I've loaded it up and you know, it works right out of the
box. The tour is is set up, it's easy to understand now there is
an issue that I have because I
I rebooted the box.
And I want to eventually put it into my I have a server rack
here. I'll just put it in there. That's fine. I don't need to
access it. But I rebooted the server racks I do it came with a
house I have a house with a server rack is sexy 19 inch
cabinet.
And so it comes back up but but the Umbral doesn't come back up,
and and I see that you know, the external drive mounts at slash
media slash atom slash e x t is what I named it. Okay, and when
I rebooted it, nothing worked. It comes back up and now I have
two drives in slash media slash atom. One is e x t and one is e
x t one. And it looks like one is referencing the other because
it's clearly not two separate drives. But then I had to change
directory into the e x t one drive and then right and then
one of our I forget who it was in podcasting. social gaming is
like, command, you know, very dangerous like hey, pseudo this
motherfucker, okay, sure, I'll do that. RM dash RF.
I like pseudo, you know, purge doc or something, whatever. And
then, and so and then the second command I ran and then it just
downloaded a whole bunch of Dockers again and the whole
thing came back up so it worked perfectly. I'm afraid to reboot
it because I'm sure I'm going to get e x t two
I just don't know why it does that. That part I don't
understand. I wonder if that's some sort of weird side effect
of the way the Surface Pro is. I wonder if that's if it's even
some new I wonder if it's presenting the hardware? Oh,
that's in a weird way. And that's typical. Wouldn't it make
sense for Microsoft do some stupid like that? Oh, guess
Yeah. Okay, so, so we just won't reboot it. But for now ever, but
I love it. I love how the apps work and how the install and
everything just works and I'm so impressed with it. And in my
mind, you know, I ordered the their actual Umbral box, the
hardware, which that's the one I want the server rack because
that, you know, it look cool. And I don't know, right? Yeah, I
mean, like, it's on its way. Okay. Well, it's like 30 Days
After we receive your order, blah, blah, blah. I mean,
there's no scale to this. Okay, I got the orange one is like,
you know, it's not a color I like but what the hell, you
know, it's kind of a collector's item.
But I see this and I think yeah, this is this is why the path is
so clear. We'll Yeah, we're going to be spinning up wallets
for
for podcasters. For podcast apps, you know, whatever the
hell we're going to be spinning up. But this is all transitory
because the people that have success and see it, you want
this shit at home. You just want it in and it's not like you have
to and God thank God for tour. Get just don't have to worry
about the shit. It's like plug it in. Give it your password.
And the interface is simple to understand. And then and here's
your toured address. It's so beautiful. The only thing I love
tour I love what it does. I love the you know, the zero config
part of it. The only bad thing the only downside of tours, it's
slow. And you can start super slow. Yeah, the payments Yeah.
Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Payments take 45 seconds
sometimes. Yeah. Yeah, to settle. Yeah, that's true.
That's true. But I've already switched Tor addresses and that
one really fast that propagated through the graph in no time.
Tell me how you did that because I need to do that I did that I
did that by rebooting the box and then having to start it from
the second hard drive and I got all the addresses. I see. I wish
I knew I need I need to give myself a new tour address
because I think there's a propagation issue with with my
Home Node the one on podcasting from right now. And but I don't
know how to do it and I just like Graham had to do it one
time for somebody I forgot who it was and he he's able to go in
there and do some sort of thing to give it to let it get a new
tour address additional I don't know just just install it on the
Surface Pro six and you're good to go reboot and reboot. You get
yourself a new tour dress. And I was worried about it. I'm like
oh fuck now I have a new tour dress and this is gonna suck but
now within you know boop boop boop boop just start started
dripping in and now the thing is screaming because I hooked it up
to with Adam curry which I want to say was another interesting
experience. Now this was a podcasting 1.0 feed that had
just come through like did the when we reset or refresh the
feed this morning. Is that all settled now? Yeah, everything's
fixed. Okay.
So I didn't add this is a feed that I had last time as I said I
created was in
the first quarter of 2020 and on the freedom controller and so I
wouldn't I'd have to go and really dig to find where this
feed page was maybe have a bookmark whatever. And here's
the here's the experience I had I fire up curio caster I flip
into RSS Jenny mode. I search for with Adam curry pops up,
click boom, like, Oh, hell yeah, good to go. I do the new
episode, throw a bucket thing in there, I add person tags, I add
the whole thing the captions now, like, I wasn't able to add
chapters yet because I don't have an entry for this podcast
in hyper capture.
So we'll see, Dread was going to think about maybe doing an
external file with a different a different generator, and we'll
see where that goes. And I hit create. And as you know, this
thing passes everything through. But what it didn't do is it
didn't pass through the namespace declaration at the top
because it does not in there. And it doesn't check because
this is the this is actually a marketing thing. Once the Steven
B gets it fixed, it's like upgrade your feed. I mean, now
that was exciting. It was it because you know, it felt like
an upgrade. Now I had to go in and add the namespace
declaration by hand. But then, of course I fucked up my entries
and then after I published like, Oh, this is no good. And it was
in the index. I just pop open curio caster and it brings it
all in and with
With all the tags in place, and it including the the namespace,
so just pass it through as a total upgrade. And despite that,
I messed it up and you had to reset the index. It was
flawless. It was really flawless and right away and I added
drabbit in there and of course, curio caster to the value split.
And the Umbral as the main note is just an I've got thunder hub
and it's on continuous refresh. It's I mean, I don't even want
to leave the studio. I just want to sit here all day, and just
watch it.
So, the thing about Umbral though is it does not show you
by default. Kison. totally lame. Now I understand.
Because I Bret Weinstein texted me. Uh huh. I think I shared
this with you. And any and I said, Hey, you still receive and
Satoshi said Yeah, I don't quite understand why. Like, okay, are
how it works. And then having the Umbral I realized, Oh, of
course, he's just seeing the number going up. He doesn't see
those NC transact, he doesn't see the transactions. Oh, man,
you got to open up thunder hub. So I don't know if he's done
that yet. Is for for an intellectual academic. He's
what's the word I'm looking for? Um, yes. Not interested in deep
in digging, it seems like he's, I've sent him all the links, you
know, the value for value.io? I've seen I've seen video, you
know, he's just like, Yeah, okay. I guess, is great, I
guess.
Yes. So that's, that's, that's coming. You know, we're, I'm
building that thing that will let you have the app to put on
there. That'll show you all this transaction data, the love it
that it'll bait not just booster grants, but it'll show
everything.
Initially, it will, it will show
just booster grams.
I just because I want to get something out there as fast as I
can. Yeah. And I don't want to have to dip what slows you down
or what slows me down.
Things like this is
trend trying to figure out how the UI gets laid out. And I
already have a decent understanding a decent UI for
just showing a stream of things coming in. But
if you just show a stream of incoming,
like per minute transactions, then your booster grams roll
off, and you don't see those and those need to be sort of fronts.
And yes, this is an issue. This is yes, absolutely. So I'm
thinking that, you know, initially, it'll just is just
booster grams, or not booster grams, but just boosts those
period with a messenger without, okay, boost. And then And then
step two is add in full transaction data, we'll do it on
a set. Like, we need to tweak the UI where it kind of shows up
and maybe two columns, you got boosts on one side streams on
the other or something? I don't know. But yeah, but definitely,
this is what this is. That's what I've been fighting all week
is trying to get this is specifically this thing is
trying to get that incoming JSON data data. This is where the
JSON hate came from. Okay, well, okay, so
have we heard from Daniel J. Lewis recently? Or is he in the
corner? whimpering?
J. Daniel JSON Lewis is alive and well. I saw him I thought it
was dead came back yesterday.
So I apologize in advance, but this. So the way this the way
that things work, or if it and we may, you know, we may just
need to spend a moment. Actually, let's do this. This
because somebody had a question on the podcast index, Telegram
channel, which I hire rarely ever, like, Oh, God, I hate
telegram. But yeah, me too.
But they just had a question. They said,
can I tell who paid me? No, it was on the so Satoshi stream
channel. He said, can I tell who paid me?
I mean, the answer is no. Like, by default, the answer is you
cannot see in and I'll just if anybody's listening to this
doesn't understand the whole what's going on behind the
scenes of when you get payments and through lightning.
Hears here's here's the Lightning Network is a layer on
top of Bitcoin, where people voluntarily open up channels
from each from their lightning nodes to other lightning nodes.
So it's a big web, this big, spider's web of connections
between individual Bitcoin nodes and which by the way, you can
see it go podcasting.org. Org.
Have You Ever Have you ever looked at that go podcasting.org
I'm looking at casting without a word.
Oh, yeah, this is the lightened. Yeah. This is Marnix is yeah,
this is this. Yeah, this is the the podcast had lightning
connections, which is a beautiful graph to see.
Yes, that the way that works. Look at that chart. And then you
can see, it is a huge web of interconnected nodes. And so if
I'm going to pay you
let's just say if I'm going to give you a boost of 2500 SATs,
my lightning node in order to get that my lightning no which
may be an app, let's just say it's as pod friend. If I boost
you on pod friend, pod friend uses ln pay as its wallet post.
And so Ellen pays lightning node has to find a route from itself
to whatever your note is. So let's just say that that's Brett
Weinstein's node. So it may have to go through three or four
different hops to get to Weinstein's node from from pod
friend. So that means that I'm just trying to simplify this for
a second, simplify the terminology a little bit. That
means that Ellen pay has to make, essentially a transaction
with each ledger transaction with each intermediary node,
because LNP may not have a direct direct connection to
Brett Weinstein, but it may have a direct connection to somebody
else who has a direct connection to somebody else who does. So
it's like six degrees of Kevin Bacon.
I'm one I'm one degree, by the way, direct from Kevin Bacon.
Okay, does he have a lightning node? He will.
I'm sure he has a podcast cuz everybody does. So if you're for
pops or for connections away from Weinstein, then your node
does a deal with this with node number number two, which does a
deal with node number three, which it does a deal with
Weinstein's node. And that's how you get that payment. It's sort
of like it's a really, it's a payment relay network.
And
one of the things that happens is, it uses
the onion strategy. So it read, it takes this payment that
you're about to send this boost of 2500 SATs, it takes that
payment
makes it wraps it in three layers. And each successive
layer gets peeled off. And these are this is encryption, wraps it
in three layers of encryption as each successive layer gets
peeled off as you as you go through the chain.
So that each person in between, so that would be nodes, three
nodes two and three, the in between nodes that are relaying
the payment, they don't know where it came from, or where
it's going. So this is all completely anonymous encrypted
traffic that's happening across the network.
So you can't tell by the time that payment gets to you, you
don't see how that how it even got to you. And there's no
identifying information other than except what might be in the
TLV records that the opposite, right? Yeah. Right. So all
you're gonna see is, is a pre image, which is just a long hash
value that doesn't really do you any good. It's just a payment
identifier.
So exactly what you said, the only way to know who sent you is
if they voluntarily disclose it, in the T O V record of in that
gets included with the lightning payment. So the T O V record is
just a hex encoded
batch of JSON.
And the JSON data gets hex encoded and put into the payment
and then decoded on the other end.
So going back to the example of Weinstein's node, if he if he's
getting these payments, is Umbral doesn't know anything
about this TLV record that podcasting uses right? And so it
doesn't understand how to that is even supposed to be decoding
any of this stuff. So that's where the booster gram app comes
in. And the confusion is because there and kind of the genesis of
the booster gram is the WhatsApp usage of the TLV record. And
that's what you see in Thunder hub on the chat page. And I
think that's why it's confusing because if someone sends me a
chat to my node directly, it'll show up in my transaction log as
a with a little, a little icon saying, Hey, this is a chat
transaction, you click it and you can read it. Base this exact
same technology, same concept, but you know,
Show 2019.
Now, is that the same TLV that the Sphinx uses? Or did they
come? They have their own thing?
Wow. I don't know. Okay, but I'm gonna say probably because I
think they're the ones that turned us on to the whole
concept. thing. So yeah. Okay, so where's Paulie? Enjoy, man
call me? Oh, yeah, when I talked to him a while back, we need to
get him back on the show, just get an update, find out what's
going on. Yeah.
But if you so you've got this, you've got this JSON data.
That's possibly. And that's the key word, all of this is maybe
in the boost payment, you can send a boost, you know, a boost,
it's just a payment, you don't you could not include any TLV at
all. Or you can include a JSON block that has four of the
fields out of the out of the 12. Or maybe this JSON block, as
it has amounts, like the number of sets, maybe that hasn't,
maybe it has them in there as strings and not numbers.
I've seen this, I've seen this chatter, hey, yeah, you're
sending me integers idiot.
So that's, this is where you get into, into the wild west have
schema lists, schema lists, JSON
can be infuriating when you're trying to
it well, to get back and fill this out for a second. This JSON
data has has possibly any a lots of different things in it. So it
could be the name of the sender, the name of the app, the version
of the app to send it a message, which is the booster gram, the
number of SATs before routing fees, the number of SATs post
routing fees, the timestamp of the of the episode, the name of
the episode, the name of the podcast, all that metadata is
are in these fields have this JSON block within within the
within the TLV record?
Well, so what what I'm trying to do
is build this, this app that will show you these incoming
payments with all this data in it, because that's awesome. Yes.
There's no other reason. It's awesome. Yeah, that's the only
reason. And so here's here's what you're doing is you're
going from is this is a fundamental problem here,
because you're going from a, a
loosely typed language like JavaScript, which is what JSON
is, you're going from a loosely typed data into a strongly typed
structure within within rust.
And Rust has fantastic JSON parsing library called cert CRD.
I've heard people call assert it's s er D. But I'm going to
call it serious because I think it's serial only. The French
would say, rude.
And it's fantastic. It works. It works awesome.
Except if you want to do this specific thing that I want to
do, it's not so awesome. Well, it's still awesome. It's just
awesome in a way that is almost completely incomprehensible to
humans. So what what you have is a situation where you have, I'm
getting a data, a data block of, I'm getting a blob of JSON,
which is just a bunch of properties, with values.
And I know what it if somebody sent the whole thing, let's just
say that an app sends you all 12 fields of information in there
perfect. And they're all typed correctly. They're all the
strings are strings, the numbers are numbers, blah, blah, blah.
If somebody sends it that way, what you can do is you can
insert in city, you can say, here's a structure, here's
here's a struct. In this fields, supposed to be a unsigned 64 bit
integer, this field supposed to be a string, this field is
supposed to be a signed 32 bit integer, blah, blah, blah, all
that is specified in the TLV record specification.
If you're trying to do that, in Everything's perfect. It works
great. It just flows right into your into your data up into your
object into your structure in rust. You can take that, build a
new record off of it, stick it in the database. However,
however,
if it's not perfect, it breaks and you have three rec let's
just say you have three of those fields missing. Now, city is
going to complain and say that it's going to try to translate
this J
On block into the equivalent rest structure is putting the
wrong nails. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So but that's, that's okay.
That's okay. Because there is there is a facility for that.
And as you define your structure your your structure fields as
what are called optionals. So this is if anybody is familiar
with modern strongly typed languages like Swift or rust,
this optionals are, are the new hotness is the way it's the way
to go, they're great. That means instead of having something like
no,
or nil, you have a, you have a structure called an optional
that has within it, it can, it has two possible values, like
some or none. So what you can do is you can just return that
optional. If you call a function, the function can
return that optional and say,
and it really returns one or the other, or none. And you can key
off that. And rather than having to interpret what this one
single value, like no means like, Okay, I don't know. So you
can, that's, that's the new way to do it. So what you can, what
you can do in Rust is you can say, okay, all of these fields
are optional. And these may may be there, they may not. And
Saturday works great. It just says, Okay, that's awesome. Now
you get back, instead of getting back a structure with numbers
and strings, you get back a structure that has
an extra layer in it that had were some all the fields are
either some or none. And if there's some they have your data
in it, if they're none, you just ignore it. Perfect. Just what
you want. However, however,
combining that idea,
also with the ability to interpret whether this whether
the field is correct or not. So now you have two problems, you
have the ability to solve the problem of whether the fields
are missing. Now you have to go another step and say, Okay, if
they're there?
Are they the right type? Did somebody put a number in here as
a number? Or did they put a number in quotes where it's a
number in a string.
And that's the part that is the step that's killing me right
now. Because in order to do that, you have to write a custom
D serializer.
And I will send, I will personally send drips got
a picture of what a D, C or D D serializer font helper function
looks like. It's called a visitor.
It will make your eyes cross
it is the most it is not for the faint of heart. And I got I got
halfway through this last night. And I was like, no, no, I can't
do this. I can do tune in next week to coding with Dave, where
we'll learn how to set up my sequel.
Yes, next week table schemas.
I understand the issue. I got I got the thank you for that
explanation. It was it was enlightening. And you know
what's gonna happen?
Alex gates is gonna say I'll
do it.
No, no, if if somebody will do this, if somebody will write me
this, I will pay you many, many SATs.
I am well, I'm willing to pay somebody to walk me through like
I'm a child on how to do this. Because I can get I can get
either one of these to work, but I can not get the combination of
both of them to work. And I'm I'm almost at the point of
bailing out and just doing this the old horrible way, which is
loop through, which is put them all in just generic values and
loop through them all and just move them into
that was that's the Adam curry AppleScript method. Yeah, that's
what I don't want to do. Oh, okay. I want to be a responsible
programmer. And Bill, you know, I'm like, if I can just get this
to work, it's gonna I can I can have this boilerplate code for
the rest of my life. I'm just,
I'm grumpy. what's the, what's the process? I mean, I've read
the, the GitHub entry for it, for getting this app into the
Umbral App Store. Because it seems like they have to do some
stuff, they got to do something custom with a Docker dot, the
ammo, and then they put it into the App Store. I mean, is do
they look and see if your code is shit? If it's rogue or
anything? Do you have any idea about that? Man, I got no clue.
I know how to get it in the app store. And it's pretty easy.
I've already Dockerized a version of it and it works fine.
Can you do that outside of their app, their process or do you
have to submit it to them? That's the only way it goes out.
I think if I'm not mistaken, I think it's all all based on poor
request to there.
to their onboard repo.
And like that seems to be what their instructions say is that
because what you do is you clone their you clone their source
code repository. And then you put your app information in it.
And it looks like you just submit a pull request back. And
I guess they, they review it. Maybe they look at your code
that way. It's an interesting way to do code review. Makes
sense to me. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just wondering if there's an
extra step, how long it'll take or if you can send that to me. I
can install it outside of that's what I'm that's what I'm going
for here. Dave, how do I get it before anybody else? You
don't get the Cridland. Give it to me first. Damn it.
You're gonna get it baby. But you have to reboot cuz then.
Yeah, there's great, new new tour dress, the whole thing
comes crashing down. Hey, I'd go ahead and sorry. No, as you can
see, I think I think that the way you do it is you're just,
you're just building the Docker
where they call it the Docker compose file on the Umbro repo.
But the actual Docker image that you create with your app in it
is actually stored on Docker hub. So I think what happens is
when you just put your app reference into their repository,
and then when they when when somebody installs, oh, okay,
they see the reference and they install it. What it does is just
does a Docker poll in the background to pull everything
down off the Docker Hub. Ah, okay.
Now, whether there's any security involved in this or
code checking, yeah, it's like, hey, click on this button.
Great. Got two gods, they've got to do that. Which is part of the
problem, of course, which is why I'm asking how do you get around
it? The last thing we need is another apple, the apple of
Umbral we don't want that, by the way, congratulate I don't
know who said it. I thought I heard the whole pod land
podcast, but there was a chapter image or something popped up and
it was
let me see. I want to read it. I don't want to get it wrong. It
was really good. But anyway, the acronym was Sagwa.
Is this on yesterday's potluck? I believe so. Yeah. I haven't
finished it yet. I'm only halfway through. I may have
missed it. Yeah, let me see. So the the acronym that popped up
was saga, which is Spotify, Apple, Google Amazon. I love
that because that's our nemesis right there.
Oh, yeah. Call me in podcasting tube. Oh, it's actually the
right on the title podcasting. 2.0 is all about an open
interoperable ecosystem of apps using RSS that create value not
closed ecosystems from saga that pirate your podcasts? I don't
know that but I bet that Sam says the thing that sounds like
a SAM thing. Well saga that was like It's like saying yeah,
that's That's exactly it. Fang and saga and saga is good
because it is a saga.
Um yeah, the and I saw Gosh Kyron McLarens great with the
with the with the fucked up images. And he did the he did
the one he's you know what I mean? Yes. And he did he did one
you know the with the guy looking at the hot chick in the
red dress or whatever. Yeah, that was fun. Yeah, it's like
this this part for did He create that for for fountain is? Yeah
for promo was that was it? I don't know. Was it Oscar? That
way? I guess it was must have been Oscar actually. Yeah. Yeah.
I think there's a fountain promo. It could have been
awesome. Could have been Kyron. That made it. But Oscar did it.
Yeah, you're right. It was just hilarious. I thought that is too
funny. And then a little, little apple and Spotify logo on the
girlfriend was funny. So good. Hey, so how are we with with
comments? Because, you know, we've this show has the social
tag filled out. I've seen it enough now that I think I can do
it on my other podcast. I know the process. And I've been super
jacked to see it show up in pod friend.
So where's everybody?
Work? So do you know exactly what's happening here? No, of
course not. That's why I come to this meeting.
Why come to learn what the heck is going on?
So
the so what we're doing is we're posting a I'm just making a post
on the podcast index dot social, and then grabbing the entry
point for that activity pub
as
a thread for that post post right.
And then we're putting we're plugging that into the social
tag social interact tag. Yes, I'm right. What it's doing right
now is just pulling in from the API just pulling that shit in.
There's no way to reply at etc. I'm just wondering. So what we
need now is in pod friend away to
I guess,
reply post, and that would be partial, you need to sign up URL
if, if someone doesn't already have an account. Yeah, so what
you would need, you know, if if anybody has a federated activity
pub instance of some sort
Pleroma, Mastodon, I have several. Yeah, if you've already
got one of those,
you don't need to visit with me, you know, it's just you just
post wherever you're at. And when you go, you know, click on
that it'll, you know, hey, where's, you know, what, what's
your home server so to speak, like, quote, unquote, and you
log into your account your federated account, and just
reply there, and it'll federate out. So I don't for at least for
activity pub, for most instances, I don't think he
would need anything special. I think the signup link would be
good if somebody doesn't already have an activity pub based
social media account.
And then that would just direct them to podcast index. But I'm
not sure we want to do that necessarily. Get a bunch of
random, you know, posters in there. Maybe maybe a sign up
could be like Master Nanda, social or some just kind of big
insights like that. So is this just a matter of Martin adding
those bits? I think so. Yeah, he just needs to add a UI to pull
in from to hook into whatever social signup is, or if there's
no social signup link, maybe he could just have a default to a
big a big X, AP based instance. And say, if you want to reply to
this, go get yourself an account here. Now, Andy layman popped in
this morning and said that he was interested in putting this
into WordPress, so that there will be a WordPress based way to
do this.
Yeah, which I think would be really cool. So I think we're
gonna talk about that on the next day of meeting.
It's it's there, it's just we have the interactivity.
Needs to be needs to be there. Now. There's some is it cast
upon? Yes, I think it's cast apod they already have a
demonstration of the way this works. Uh huh. Um,
I don't know if I can find it quickly. But
if you go on there, cuz every cast upon instance, has is a
fully functional act, activity pub server. So if you go on
there, and you want to reply, what it'll do is pop up a box,
like a like a pop up window. Asking you to log into your to
your Yes, yes. Yeah, I've seen it happen. Sure. Okay. Okay. And
then that mean, that's the way to do it. So I really the way to
do so I've had this, this very small Mastadon that I haven't
touched in fact, I just had to get the code from email. That's
how long I hadn't hadn't logged in. And, and it's so beautiful
because I think this was set up before
podcast index dot social is host Yeah, match dot host Exactly.
And I just searched at Dave at podcast index dot social boom
shows up right away.
And from here, I'm going to follow your post the one that
you made as the as the root node for this this episode, right?
Oh, yeah. For 62 Yeah, so I can post I can post there. Oh, yeah.
I just see. I see. You just popped up. popped up. It just
popped up and said that Adam curry followed you. Oh, from
that other How do you feel about that? I feel validated.
What's interesting, though, is I Okay, I see it now.
I see October 5.
Gosh, I don't have I don't have everything and it hasn't I guess
it has to refresh or something. I don't know. Yeah, this says
yeah, this says that you created this back in December of 2020.
See now December 2020. Okay, weird has been around. That
doesn't make sense. I thought it was earlier than that. Anyway,
it doesn't matter. Okay, got it. So
so now we need everyone else to jump on board.
So that's it. There's nothing else needs to be done just
implementing and getting it getting it on? Yeah, yeah, I
mean, that's pretty much it and so that that's well that's for
Mastodon or excuse me, not Massa, for that's for activity,
bub pub based comments. And if somebody wanted to do something
like Twitter based comments, they would just need to be an
author to authorize. Yeah, it'd be a no off, you know, to a
Twitter app and just that whole song and dance. But I mean, the
linkage and everything is there. Okay.
It feels like everyone just hit a brick wall and stopped.
Well, I think.
I don't know. I mean, I feel I think Mark Daniel J. Lewis,
Daniel J. Lewis should be outraged. He's the one that
stopped the train and said, stop with this live business. Let's
do comments who made these decisions? Well, what I want to
know from Daniel J. Lewis, is why? I mean, he's a coder. Why
isn't he putting this on his website? Yeah, because now
you're talking exactly. You want to comments, bring it, bring it
on, brother. Put it on, put it on my podcast reviews. This is
grumpy days. Everybody is grumpy Dave? No, no, no.
I love you, Jason, Daniel, Jason live. And live.
Live is a part of the same shit you're dealing with right now.
Right? With the
I put live on I put live on the shelf, so that I can finish the
Instagram app. And then when I'm finished with that,
then I feel I will, I will have some extra code that I can come
back to live with. This is going to help live.
This this is going to the the booster gram app, when I'm
finished with this, I'm going to have good code in order to put
because part of live is having chat. And it needs to be three
streams of things coming in. It needs to be a live chat room.
Also activity pub based comments if there's a linkage there that
it can find like to like what we're doing with with the
comment threads. And booster grams, they need to be all
coming into the same stream of of posts on the same page. So
the booster grams stuff is is doing this right here is going
to help me get the backend code that I need to do that with. So
got it this Yes, stopping that and doing this and then coming
back to that as the way to go. All right. Yeah.
What else? That's not enough. There must be something else.
Yes, I met somebody posted on podcast index dot social this
morning, that
dash and asked for help
with stuff because people will be more than willing to help
code things. And they're there. Right? It's this is a
personality flaw of mine that I tend to take on too much stuff
at once.
I don't know if it's me being a control freak or what it is. How
do you feel about your mother?
This is only a two hour show.
But there's no that there? I mean that that's just that's
right. It's right. I do take on too much. So anytime somebody
wants to most to jump in and help construct this stuff.
Please feel free because if you don't I will overload myself.
It's a it's a habit. get stopped doing that.
Just
using Ted last oh, by the way, I've seen three or four
episodes. Yeah, on the plane, and we just I'm watching other
stuff now. But it's like one of those long term I'll get around
to and watch it all, but I thought it was quite
entertaining. I liked I like the premise. I thought season one
was good. We we like Robin Benjen in the last few days. And
that's all season one was good. And but the I guess the reason I
brought it up was Thomas Agha. Yeah, that show is guess so much
apple branding PR. Yeah. Oh, my nauseating Well, it's apple.
It's Apple TV. Right. It's apple produce. Yeah. I mean, like it's
they're talking all the time about there's think there's
things you do as things you don't do. And this is just for
such a good show and award winning show. It's come across
as whorish It does. Yeah, it does. That's a good way to say
it. Like I mean, when the when the lead character literally
says you know, oh, these air pods Max sound great.
Bro, come across that. Yeah.
I mean, like, oh my god, I love that the Escape key is back on
my MacBook Pro.
Yeah, one of them was like, Yeah, I'm moving in with my
girlfriend and we're now sharing an iCloud account. I'm like, oh
my god, can you just stop? Oh, that's how my that's Eddy Cue
man. Eddy Cue does that shit he does. And I have to say
unfortunately, he's right. Because it works. It works and
works. Does that if that's what you want podcasting to turn
into? That's There you go. You know? Well, that's what happens
when the silos take over. What was Tina reading to me this
morning is a bad Glenn Greenwald has announced a new independent
podcast platform
What Yeah, who wants
to call in thing? Yes. I'm like, oh, and yeah, so we reach out to
each other in actually all the time. Which Yeah, it's really
she's
okay. At night. I'm always reading and I choose something
that is like technical or whatever something my as my eyes
will glaze over and I'll fall asleep and then she'll say can
you read to me? I have read the Satoshi white paper to her at
least five times
yes, I have you asked her.
I'm sorry. Okay. Yeah. All right. So she was reading to me
this morning and then you know, I'm listening to this like, oh
man said WHAT THE FUCK Glenn Greenwald NASA go after. I
already had to get Brett Weinstein's head on straight
which is still iffy, but I gotta go find and I really liked
Glengarry Glen grant Greenwald, Grant grant green, Roald Dahl
ruff. And then she's read because I know that, you know,
he's, he's basically pitching substack and rumble, I mean,
he's being paid by both and that's fine. I'm very happy but
it's not like a platform that is safe.
And not safe by any by any means. But okay. And then she
starts reading about call as well, actually, it was written
called as ca ll i n, but then you realize it's really ca ll
space i n. So it's not calling I'm like, Oh, that's interesting
name. But it's Oh, yeah, that's confused. Me too. Because like
calling Yeah, no, it's it's clubhouse. Yes. What?
Oh, brother. Nice. All those things, those social audio
things. I'm sorry. They're just pictures. How's How's Mark fun.
Mark Cuban did the keynote. Hello, Podcast Movement. Hello,
you idiots. That disappeared? I mean, it's gone. Right? Yeah, of
course. It pisses me off because everyone's jacking off. You
know. And now it's like, Oh, I really hope Facebook buys Lipson
and blueberry please.
They just published a show, which sounded like an old show
where they have the two the two women on who are the product
managers for for Facebook. And it's like, it would it was an
old show. What is the repeat? I didn't understand. But yeah,
it's like, Oh, yeah. Always got clips are so great. And all
we're doing on that. Hmm.
What I thought was interesting is did you see John's burlock
Spurlock stats from October? Did not okay. You know, he's what
he's doing is he's looking at he's looking at podcasting
stats. I heard about it. I think I heard about it on pod news or
Yeah, yeah, probably. And he's looking at it from the amount of
new pup episodes published in a month. And yeah, Buzzsprout was
number three or something. Yeah, so you get anchor Spreaker
Buzzsprout. Triton digital Lipson, sound, SoundCloud, pod
bean, other books, sermon, audio megaphone. Those are the top 10
I think it needs to reparse it again. And I'll tell you why.
Okay, I think a lot of is just the free poster. The what is it?
What's the top one? Anchor? Anchor Spreaker anchor Spreaker
and
SoundCloud, I would say the metric should be new episode
from an existing podcast because I have a feeling was crept in
there is new episodes from new podcasts. And yeah, of course
with marketing. These guys have to have hundreds if not 1000s of
new signups per month. Okay, so that's exactly I'm glad you said
I could. That's exactly why I brought this up because I had
the same thought that really that needs more. It needs more
qualifiers on it. One more One more grip.
Okay, now grip that he used to do one more grip I need to grip
the data one more time. Yeah, if I grip it, pipe it to grip.
If if new equals no or whatever, get out. Yeah, that'll do it.
That pretty much cleans it all up. Yeah. Well, okay. So if you
so I'm looking at this at the top 25 You have anchor
Spreaker which is a free has these maybe some of these hosts
are not all they're not 100%. Free. They have free plans. So
yeah, and where's Red was red bullets square circle. Okay, on
there. What red circles that red circle? What's the one what our
buddy in Nigeria uses? Yeah, okay. Yeah, he's his red circle.
The red circle. Michael Caden from red circle. He's on the
podcast index social right now is helping him with some stuff
last night. Yeah, I kind of like what those guys are doing.
Interesting. Interesting proposition they have. Yeah, I
like the idea of free but, but in a way that's sane. Yeah. It's
like you can tell where the money's coming from. It's not
just all magic VC money, you know?
Now like, I like, trying to do stuff like that. I mean, because
we're putting our stuff is free. But everybody, I mean, listen to
the show until where the money's coming from. It's pretty obvious
who's keeping it afloat. Yeah, exactly. I mean, as long as it's
transparent, that's all you know. That's, that's what's
important. But the, so you got anchor Spreaker, SoundCloud.
iBooks. Now iBooks also has
Australian or Russian Australian Spanish speaking. Oh, I think
there's Central America, two strikes
in
the Internet Archive, so archive.org also free. So I
yeah, I think some some of that could be would be really
interesting if he would
do what you said and parse it as new episodes per existing feed
rather than new episodes for a new feed. Yeah. Because that
just just comes out. That just comes down to marketing. And I
guarantee you Buzzsprout will be number one. It seems to me like
the most active most professional, most, I don't
know, people who move the needle on Buzzsprout. I would say close
second is probably RSS calm. That's just my feeling. I have
no data to back it up.
Yeah, well, I mean, Lipson, that was the other one. Lipson number
five was interesting. That tells me that they have an established
user base. Yes, well, yeah. Of course lips, Lipson has huge
legacy of podcasts. Yeah. And they're people that are staying
there in publishing on a regular basis rather than just like I
just wonder not getting this huge influx of people right. I
wonder if if all the loops and people will stay when Facebook
buys them?
Yeah, that when it'll become the department they Lipson podcast
marketing department of Facebook, it'll be no it becomes
Facebook five.
That's coming. It's gonna be great.
I mean, I mean, did Adam it very calm very mean today. I mean,
not by just here, all the energy that got from Todd and from
Robin, there's so they've got so much energy, and they're so
enthusiastic, and I want them to succeed. And I know what they're
doing and I'm happy for them. But I just I wanted I want that
energy for us. Anyway.
My partner's about to die, and I need some energy.
What?
You're not sounding too good. Yeah.
You're making me feel good about this podcasting thing?
Now? Um, I just need some more. Some more meds or something.
Yeah, I've got to see if I can make it through another week.
I'm not going to die. But you get a cold or flu every year. I
think you mentioned to me or not, yeah. Okay. Yes. I'm very
prone to sinus infection. Sucks. I just had year round, nasal
drip from allergies never stopped ever since I moved to
Texas. And yeah, take Texas. There's certain parts of I think
it's the how, and this is not apply to Texas. But there's
certain parts of the country like the Ohio River Valley,
certain people that have no allergy problems. They've Yes,
it there. And it's like, boom, they just get hammered. Yeah,
this is after your first year after living in Texas is when
you develop all these allergies and you're screwed. But hey, you
can carry a gun. You never had allergies before. You never
never. And I haven't I did. I can manage it. I mean, I can
manage it now but I I destroyed a lot of my my system living
downtown in my first apartment, which was pretty leaky. And they
were just building all around. And so I have a very sensitive
to mold. And so if you have mold and it's floating through the
air and it picks up you know, little particles of diesel from
the from the machinery that really you know, it's even going
downtown. I have to bring Kleenex as I know I'm going to
get an attack. Oh, well, the minute that that oil enriched
pollen. It's my nasal. Yeah. Oh, aap. Exactly. Exactly. So I'm
Stephen B said he a subtle reminder to tell the story of
how we met. I guess we promised that on the last episode. Oh,
yeah.
Yeah, we met through.
We met through the Dave Winer project through AECT for poets
in there was
So Dave, you can probably tell this. No, I actually like you to
tell it because I don't remember it that well. But when you tell
me then I'll probably be able to add some color
I started listening to no agenda probably.
Maybe 12 years ago. I don't remember. But it was it was
definitely it was in the low. How did you find no agenda? 100?
How did you find? Three twit? Yeah. Okay. I think it was in
the low, low one hundreds episodes, maybe
early, early one hundreds.
But
I don't know, maybe episode one 120 or something like that. So I
listened to for a while. And then you made a switch from your
using Google Reader for your show, research. Uh huh. And then
he started using.
He's talked about it on on the show you started using Dave
Weiner's OPML editor
that he had recently sort of read
whatever you call it, yeah, he did a huge a bundled into a Mac
app, I think. Yeah. And so and Reethi just renamed. I think he
renamed it from Frontier to open some radio radio to OPML. Maybe
no, no. Frontier. Yeah, you're right. Okay. Yeah. And then you
were talking about a few one, if anybody wants a, an account, on
your server, whatever, you're giving out accounts. So I
started playing with it, and then joined that project,
because it was all being managed through Google Groups. You're on
my server?
Yeah, I think so. Okay, I had a, an account, didn't know what to
do with it. But I had an account. And then got involved
in Google Groups in the AC T for poets. thing. And we're spinning
up
spinning up AC two instances with a copy of OPML editor
running on it. And I just recently shut that down Windows
Server 2000.
Like running the OPML. Editor. That is, to me the most
dangerous thing on the internet. Remember, when blog currie.com
broke? Yes, yeah. Because what would happen, just as an aside,
this app would crash. And but that was no problem, because you
had another app that ran in the system tray to start it again.
You know, eventually, it will have started so many times, that
it would just stop you go in, and you got to do RDP, and all
that shit to get into the Windows machine. And then in the
system tray, you'd mouse over it. And there would be like 1000
OPML, editor icons, and you have to move your mouse back and
forth over the system tray for them all to go and get them to
go away, then you had to get you had to kill that restart your
app, because you know, that was in the cars that whatever you're
doing, you needed to do is you need to reboot the box. And you
had to make sure that the OPML dot route file, ie the database
that it wasn't, you know, over 500 megabytes or something or
what have gigabytes because then he would either fill up the
drive you had to compact it which had to do with the command
remember and all this Yeah, and then finally it was all started
again. It was working and and then I had this period where it
was just getting hammered by if was China or whatever it was. It
was just it was so it was just hammer hammer hammer and the
poor thing couldn't handle it anyway. Yeah, I guess I'd
migrated so much that I just pulled the plug on the whole
thing was cost me 300 bucks a month. It was like some month
because you know, you pay the license fee. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
I totally can. Yeah, at Rackspace. Yes, it was. Yes, it
was at Rackspace. You're right. Yeah. No, but I had backups
running and imaging and everything was good system. I
didn't mind. I didn't mind the cost because it was really
really good. And it ran a lot of stuff and then at certain point,
it was just data diminished so much in use, I just pulled the
plug in. Bye bye. i You know, I I Rackspace. doesn't let you
keep the image.
It just charges you you can't shut it off. Right now. Like,
like Amazon. If you shut it off, you're not charged for it. And
with Rackspace. I just keep getting charged like so. Okay,
so I didn't do it.
Yeah, that is dead anyway. Yes. Big. Big diversion. Sorry.
No, sorry. That was that was my whole life ran on that. Yeah.
And then But then how do we decide to start doing the
freedom controller? Because
well, you had a, you had a, you had a tiff with no, I know what
happened. We were using instant outliner.
Remember that? Yeah. I remember. So you know, and you had an
outline and you could subscribe so I could subscribe to Dave's
outline, someone else's outline. And then if you made an update
to that outline, that that your note in my outline, by the way,
this is still cool shit. It is cool. Yeah, we just boop would
go bold.
whatever the thing is bold, right? Bold, would show that it
updated. You can still it's all in freedom controller. It was
basically a chat app. But it was really handy because, you know,
you could see how I can see how you were thinking like, Oh,
here's an art, you could archive and I'm gonna stick this over,
you could just move the information and you could have,
in essence, like, Oh, check out this, this line that I've been
working on, or this text or just a quick one liner note. And I
believe what the way I think the TIF was, that Weiner, just all
of a sudden, like, pulled the plug and just unplugged the
whole thing. And we're like, what happened? You know, it's
like, he's not working anymore. And he had it because he was
always good. He always gets pissed off about someone saying
something the wrong way or not respectful, or you didn't give
your bug report in the right format, whatever the fuck. And
then, so he freaks out and unplugged everything. And I
think that somehow he got in touch with us, like, let's just
go work on our own thing. I really liked that. It wasn't
it we didn't we wasn't instant outlining was not the first
thing that we were working on. No, no, no. So you never got it.
You would. You emailed me and said, Hey, you wanna you want to
do a project or whatever? You had an idea for, like a social
network? Saying, type deal, though, right? Yeah, we're gonna
build Twitter. Yeah. Yeah, essentially. Yeah. Yeah, I don't
know. I remember. And I said, Well, actually, I've, I've got
this, because I had started about three months before
rewriting a lot of my favorite parts of our of the OPML. idea.
Yeah, the OPML. Editor in Atlanta, what was it called?
Again, the open source version? Are you talking about the, it
was like, it was river two. And then rate. Radio was the
blogging part. Radio two was the blogging part and all that
stuff. So I tried, I started putting all those pieces
together in a in a lamp, just a LAMP stack, Linux based app.
I started doing that. But the one thing I always wanted this,
I had always wanted this forever, was a way to have a
bookmarklet in my browser,
where I could be reading an article, click the bookmarklet,
and have it save a copy of that article, to a database on my
server that I had. So that I could create a paper trail as I
read things across the internet, where I could go back and say,
oh, you know what, I remember this article that I read three,
three months ago, but I don't remember where I read it. And I
wanted to be able to go and search for it and find it in my
database. And that keeps it makes things searchable. And it
makes it to where, if that link ever goes away, you still have a
copy of the article, you've archived it. So I always wanted
a digital article archiver. So the pieces that I had put in was
a news river RSS reader, a micro blogging tool, and this article
archiver function, which carta lies, right cartulary Yeah. And
so God put it, and I put it in, like I use, you sent me that
email and said, Hey, you want to build a project together? I got
this idea. I was like, Well, I don't know if this thing I'm
working on would work. But like, here it is, you want an account.
So I set you up an account on my server, and you're like, Oh, my
God, this is my show notes. Like this show notes right away.
Yeah, exactly. It's and it's the same thing. I need a record of
everything that I read everything I did. And he did it
in a nice, neat way organized, that I can reorganize stuff and
put it into into a show rundown or topics that I'm going to talk
about, which I'm very familiar with outlining is how it worked,
my brain works. And then the beauty part is then we have this
you know this button that says Publish click boom, and then you
turn show notes or literally show prep into show notes. Yeah,
that's really phenomenal. So that the end and then we
strapped on all kinds of and this is a 10 year project. And
meanwhile, your wife Melissa, she became an artist and she was
doing um, did she didn't she started doing art for no agenda.
Did she do a couple pieces? Yes, she did. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And
my, my daughter. My daughter was
me. No, we just moved out my oldest daughter into an
apartment Wednesday. Oh, my goodness. I mean, she was I
think she was like, I don't know nine and oh, we started this.
Ah, how they grow Dave and arch and our final trial, the freedom
controller will never leave the nest. We never. We never
finished that child. That child's not baked. It'd be
living in his mom's basement for the rest of his life. Living in
mind for sure. I can't be without it. Yeah, I cannot be
without it.
That's pretty much I mean, that's, that's it. Yeah. And
then we, you know, we spent 10 years
Working on aggregation fine tuning it
the RSS generator did a lot with that, man but we should use that
out instant outlining again. How cool was it? You know, you see,
I know you don't follow them I do whiners back on it man. He's
he's created this whole Yeah, he's now created all of frontier
in
JavaScript JavaScript, I think Yeah. And you know, it's now
it's open source and now he's he's doing the same thing is in
essence, you know, connecting outliners and I look at him
like, oh, and you know, he uses Twitter for identity for log on
and this should be good. You know, he's, it's all the all the
same ideas is just another iteration, that very few people
will use
an update one or I can't work with him, but I love him. He's
got such good ideas. Yeah, these guys. Programmer Yeah. But I
mean, like, that's so crisper, I seen my like this, the instant
outliner idea was based on on an outline inclusion, inclusion.
Yeah, which I still to this day use. I mean, I use it in all my
show notes, I'm always including different outlines from
different places. A lot of people don't understand that
OPML can even do that. That was the first iPod directory was
literally OPML includes you, if so in an outline, in an OPML
outline file, which is just XML, one of the attributes in an X in
a node and OPML node is inclusion equals and then it can
be in what you do is you put a URL of another OPML file in that
attribute. So then when you double click the node to expand
it, what's supposed to happen is that goes out, the app goes out
and gets the contents of that other outline, and includes it
as the cont as the children content of that node when you
expand it. Yeah. I think David Davis forever angry that, you
know, OPML became associated with mp3 listings. Yes, I think
that's the frustrations like that's all that ever is
recognized for and I you know, I always download a new outliner
and let's see what it does. And you know, lots of them will
import and export OPML none of them do inclusion.
Yeah, I can see why he's bitter about that. Because it's just
became Oh OPML that's the thing you trade in the trade cast. We
I'm bitter about it, honestly, because it was beautiful in
still is. It's an outliner language.
That's what all of the no agenda show no system is built on is
OPML inclusions and that's why it was so easy to build search
engines off of the show notes because it's all it's all XML
you can go and parse the whole
the whole directory and get everything structured data.
Let's thank some people David, this is a value for value
project. It's not just the podcast. The podcast is purely a
recording of the board meeting, which we preside over and from
time to time we bring in other board members we haven't had one
in a few weeks so we should have some who's coming up put it we
have on the on the roster. Oh, we have got let's see who we got
Franco from CAST ematic coming up, you know good. And we got
James the week of Christmas. Cridland Cleveland you know cool
we're gonna do a look back year review
as well you got the right guy for it. Yeah.
Roi ROI from Brees is going to be December 3 Nice. That'd be
fun. Nice. Oh Jason from podcast guru excellent. We got lined up
nice got some man I think I got stuff booked all the way out to
January the seventh baby nice I appreciate it man you do a good
job on keeping the balance producing the show.
I'm trying to I try to alternate we have a guest one week and
then just two of us the next week so we don't get to guest
heavy yeah it's kind of
value for value the It says it right there on the tin. What you
do is if you take a long hard look at yourself and say am I
getting value out of this stuff these guys are doing guys and
gas and if you do write down a number that you say is equal in
your mind and your world not ours or whatever it's worth to
you send that back to us you can do it a podcast index.org scroll
to the bottom is a big red donate button for your Fiat fun
coupons. We love people boosting us and I believe looking at the
the email report this morning we got a hefty boost No Yeah, we
got to begin
begin all right. What's the what's the big and what
happened? What went down? What are you learning? No, I'm saving
that for the end that's the big crescendo Okay, all right. Let's
let's thank some people. Oh, okay. Right out the bat we get
Sir Harry pilgrim as 22,112 sets of 2112 Run ice you better
explain what that is because you keep boosting that
amounted to Cridland and he doesn't he doesn't get it.
Really? Yeah. Caitlin, are you not a rush? Man? You've got it.
2112 is their seminal album? I wonder I wonder, you know that's
that's gonna be the question I shall ask. What music do you
listen to James Cridland? I'm thinking Bucks Fizz. What the
heck is that? Don't worry. He just cringed. Okay?
What was that? He was that like, Jamaican rap group or whatever?
Jamaican rap group.
I can't even remember the name of it. It was
something in something
from a few weeks ago, I'm gonna I'm gonna play you a little
bucks. Play a little Bucks Fizz. Is that a British thing? Of
course.
But see, you'll love it. Here we go. Hit it. Oh, it's got to go
to the tubes. Here we go.
Flux feels like the UX.
It's bucks. Foi ZZ
Wait, wait for the wait for it
down
oh my god. It sounds like something in church. Yeah.
Making your mind up. Oh boy. I'm exposing myself as a Bucks Fizz
fan.
Your okay, what year was that song? Oh, I just closed the tab.
I'm gonna say without looking. I'm gonna say 1979 maybe did a
chart? Oh, yeah, but this was number one. That's why That's
why it's a joke. Let me see. This. That was number one in the
UK in 1979. Possibly let me
just lost respect for the British.
Oh, let's see bucks. They have a website. bucks bucks. phys.co.uk
Let me see.
Here's their discography.
They probably still do gigs. Oh, wow. Gray hair and shit and I am
sorry. 1981 Okay, ready? Number 112 weeks in the UK chart
everybody. Oh, this is a Euro vision group. Of course it is.
Yeah, well, that's where the number one hits come from. Okay,
so this this saying ABA wouldn't have been believable. But Bucks
Fizz. Yeah, you know, I can see James jammin out to some fizz.
And they've got a picture on Wikipedia of the skirt. Rip at
Eurovision 1981. Know what, that's all that was the wardrobe
malfunction. Yes, yes, yes. scandalous. Yes, Sir Terry Wogan
was very amused.
Sir hearing pilgrim also was amused and said long live neil
peart rush boost. Yes. Thank you very much.
Let's see. 22,000 SATs. Wow. From our buddy Mike Newman. He
says about you boost. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. Boost. keep on keepin
on fellas. Mike Newman. 20,000. Thanks, Mike. I appreciate it.
He's probably a second life guy.
Who, Mike? Yeah, and everyone in Second Life was either name
Newman or something else. I was Adam Adam Newman.
Let's see.
Oh, our friend B mozzie. Is that Brian? mozzie? Uh huh. He says,
okay, so he Oh, this is a good boost. 8374 which is beta. Oh,
yeah. Nice one says beta live boosting. This is real talk.
Love podcasting tube cup. Ah, okay. I get Yes. All right.
Testing 2.0. And new apps, but I'm the choir not and you
couldn't convert. For instance, web only apps without download
capability are a no go. We're in the age of streaming. But not
everything is unlimited data and having podcasts on a flight is
essential. Good points. Yes, I use different apps. I
personally, but I'm a web guy. I stopped using apps at right
after I learned how to put one together and I saw that. What's
that? That honeypot SDK that everybody puts in there, that
Facebook thing? Like now I'll just use web web browser so I
love the web apps. It's
just I love them works great for me. That's personal but that's
what's great about podcast apps are extremely personal.
Um, let's see. Okay, here we go. We get to two these back to
backs and Brian came in with a couple more 4929 SATs he says 48
minutes and 29 seconds. The time my new podcast app froze on the
episode and I had to switch over to overcast to finish listening
top 1,000% usability is the biggest barrier when you
have to sell the features that caveat the bugs to new users, it
is an uphill battle for adoption. Every new app can be
as well oiled as an overcast or Pocket Cast, but they just need
to get there. I agree. I agree to but as you pointed out on the
previous episode, it takes time. It doesn't, you know,
it's not like Apple's App is all fixed and spiffy, or Spotify is
all kind of everyone has all software has bugs, it all sucks,
and everyone has issues and it's just a matter of, I think it's
time I that's, you know, we're starting from scratch new
paradigms, new thinking, new, new people, new ideas. It's,
it's a very normal iteration. Yeah, it's tough love, but true,
but okay. Some things you just can't eat some things you just
can't replace. And time is one of them when it comes to code, I
think. I agree. I agree. And yeah, we're, it's very early
days. These are all early adopters. Yeah, yeah, totally.
The one thing I would suggest is let's all get some OPML import
and speaking of just podcast lists, but let's let's all get
OPML import and export working that's your adoption that's
that's the easy way people will try something out but to have to
resubscribe if they can import man that's just a historical
learning take it for taking down Frankie for it. Take it from me
somebody somebody on podcast index that's social a while back
was working I forget who it was was working on a common back end
for
for OPML export import. Hmm. To where any app could just connect
to this thing and pull in somebody is OPML that would if
somebody wants to pick that up that would to me, that would be
a really cool service. Cool idea. Yeah.
Bronson, a third one he says 4829 set. My booster Graham
should have been 4008 29 not 4929 for the faded 4829 Time
Code even on buggy
like it. Thank you, man. That's great. Brian.
Brian Oates and another one elite boost 1337 and just said
boosted? Yeah, we will.
See, oh, yo, yo Ostrowski says. He sent us 1000 SAS. He says
Cass dose is an outstanding product. Thanks for having them
on. Joe.
I liked our chat with Yeah, it was good. Very good, guys.
Oh, hardhats and 5000 SATs, and he's just says boost.
Thank you hard hat and DJ seeds. Oh, I like that. No, that is
well. Yeah. DJ seeds is 5000 Sassy says what wishlist items
do you have for developers? Since you guys are constantly
thinking about podcasting 2.0 surfacing some of your ideas to
us developers, maybe in a structured way, would be greatly
appreciated. I know Dave likes to do everything. But we would
gladly listen. And that's what I was talking about earlier. I
don't necessarily like doing it all. I just can't help it
sometimes. I know Dave is doing everything. But we would gladly
take some things off his plate and allow him to focus on other
things. Well, you know, I've, I've got the the code. Thank
you. DJ says, I've got the code posted up for
for this diagram app. So what is the code name of that? helo pad.
And what is MK Ultra? That's the live thing. Okay, got it. I
don't remember if I posted it or not, but I'll post it as well.
So we can be uh, feel free to jump in anywhere out. That's the
beauty of GitHub. Yeah. Always glad to do pull requests and all
that stuff. Anything you want to do is totally great with me.
And I will try to do better about that about about making
things to do. Do you accessible? Do you need to safe word?
Say bucks. This is our safe word. Mash. I'm gonna change the
title of the show.
Is
C night and I'm gonna do this to you to everyone's gonna be like,
Hey Dave, Dave at Dave Bucks Fizz, but I'm just gonna be a
fan. I'm just envisioning like Eurovision Song Contest on stage
in a gimp suit or something.
Nice visual. That's worse than goatse
1948 Boost. See, this is Brian of London. The 1948 Boost is
accompanied by $10 and $5 set as a recurring weekly donation to
build a PayPal gap. So good. Thank you. Yeah, he says hi.
My dog. Yes
there is
minority left the room. Those tyrannies man they they got they
got some bark to them, don't they? Oh yeah, I love it deep
deep.
What's his name? In banjo?
Our dog's name is Phoebe but ultimately it's Francis or Baba,
depending on what the dog is doing, depending on what you're
currently liking it or not like yes, he does like I don't think
so. Francis like the dog doesn't know. Francis.
Alright, right.
Let's see. We got 19 153 sets from Kyron he says Warning to
kids at home. If no boosting can be addictive. Say no to MK Ultra
boosts.
Man up, Australia's Got something Yeah, they got some
humor.
Arrow statica he's in 2376 sets and he says unbeatable booster
grams. unbeatable. grams. Think aerostatic aerostatic is about
to blow your mind.
iMac psi ma see? Oh, he's our buddy Saltzman Paul Saltzman
says his 1000 SATs Salzman here enjoying fountain in testing its
boost functionality. Check out spoken song lyrics my two
minutes silly podcast hosted on booksprout
Check it out and Paul. Yes.
CASS peeling 3300 SATs and he says thanks for the show boost.
You and here's the
mind blower. Okay.
aerostatic
502,376 Holy crap.
Shot Carla 20 is Blaze.
Baller boots of the decade Holy crap. Which chat Do we still
have liquidity on the chat? I don't know. I don't know we may
have to rent something from lightning labs yeah holy crap
that's phenomenal. So that that went through huh okay, so no
kidding had 353 I'm looking right I'm logging in that's 300
bucks man that's that's a match Yeah, I mean, first of all,
thank you so much. Yes, that that is that really helps. But
How the fuck did it get in without depleting it handle
somewhere? I'm logging
either lightnings routing is is gotten very smart. Yeah. Or are
we snuck that one in somehow and under the underside channel
what's while I'm looking at this What's this note? Okay, says
mega arrow boost Happy Friday guys make keep making life
better for podcasters hosts and devs you are today's rockstars
of the money revolution today include my PSB as a part of this
half million set booster gram let's see if it goes through it
did it did man
this were like the Sex Pistols of the of the the money
revolution
Yeah, let me log into this 502,376 SATs is there
significance to the number well, he said
I had to include my PSB as a part of this hat what is PSB Do
you know that name?
Gosh I'm pretty good with acronyms. Be personal service
boosts personal
it's got to be personal something
you know that people are yelling at their podcast app. Oh, I got
it. I got I got I got it personal standard boost. Oh, he
included that okay, yes he is normal boost is 2376 added the
personal standard boost to his to his half million set. Got it.
Got it. Okay, I'm looking at I'm loading here.
Just was God that was a huge boost somewhere.
Hey, man, we're all giddy about it. Yeah, I gotta say I wonder
honestly, what do we get?
Just wonder what the routing was that Well, I don't want to know
that too. Well, although I do it might have gone through Alex
gates is node. Is he ever big that big? We have half that we
have almost half a million SATs on our end from his from his did
his swing did it just Yeah, I don't. The way that's what I
don't know. Highway to Hell. Oh, Highway to Hell that channel was
666,666 sets. Thanks. See
Thanks, Satan. It's like the music awards. Uh oh, you know,
no, I'll bet you. Yeah, it's a breeze. Lm pay.
Oh, okay. Yeah, I can see it because LM pay. Now we've got
700,000 SATs on our side from from our big. We have a 5
million Satoshi channel with LM pay. Okay, so that's where
that's where it hit. Okay. Yeah, I'd forgotten we have, we're
smart. We, we put your money where it counts into liquidity
in the node. And so that's where that's where it works. So I
wonder what that should try a million next time. Let's see if
that was just just a suggestion. Yeah. Look, don't stop pushing
boundaries. No, really. We encourage this. We we have to
stress test the system. I mean, you want to see if you can break
it. Come on, man. Step it up.
Seriously, though,
thank you very much. aerostatic. That is that is it for testing.
Thank you. This is the biggest as far as I know, the biggest
boost we've had. It's proven it proves a lot that this this
works. This is really really, really a seminal moment.
And it's aerostatic is on is currently king of the hill. But
he's right put these right to be dethroned. Oh, yeah. I can
already see I see people in the woodworks already. Yeah. Like
somewhere. I've got a wallet with some SATs left. Yeah, get
hard drive somewhere. Oh, by the way, I hooked up my blue wallet
to my Umbral very slick.
Oh, can it act as a remote managed, like a remote managed
wallet? I do. Yeah. So actually, I'm going to give Tina cuz, you
know, it's, it's like LM bits or LM PE in a way, you know, you're
on the same note, but it's just an accounting system. And so she
just boom, you just got a little lightning wallet, and then you
can send SATs into it.
And, you know, it's just it's great for setting someone up
with their individual wallet that they can actually do
something with that isn't too hard. You know, because blue
wallet, you could just set up one, one wallet, and you're good
to go. And you know it you just
flash the QR code. And it's connected and they just need to
fill it up.
At you need. Okay, so play. Do you got clips? I do. I do. Of
course I do. Play that Kawasaki. $500. For what this is from your
interview with Guy Kawasaki. Oh, this is the
what is it called? Interesting people, something like that.
Yeah. So I'm like, here we go. Whatever this show was worth to
you just write that number down and send it to us. And we still
got a lot of people sending $5 Quite a few sending $50. And lo
and behold, a whole bunch of people sent $500 Which $500 For
what? That was the value they got out of the podcast. I love
it how he's like.
Yeah, that was so crazy. What I mean, like, that tells me he's
he doesn't value his own content. Thank you. Exactly. So
I mean, like if somebody values if somebody sends you $500, they
don't just do it for kicks. They do it because they see value in
it. Yeah. And that has not value that you assign to it. That's
value that they assign to him. The problem with podcasting is
all the Gosh, darn charts, stop with the charts. If you if
you're reaching an audience you're reaching and why, why is
everyone so insane about growing their podcast? Seriously, this
is a serious question. Why is the number one mission that has
always talked about when it's about podcasting at conferences,
podcasts about podcasting? It's always how am I how do I get
discovered? How do I grow? My show? Is that the point of
podcasting is my question. Dave Jones, your opinion, the point
of podcasting is not to is not to grow your show, because
that's, that's a, he might as well say the point of podcasting
is to
make it a certain color. Your the point of podcasting is to
connect with your audience in a way that they get value from you
and in return it.
You create a shared value between the two between you and
your audience, whether that's if it's if it's 1000 people, and
it's sustainable. What does it matter if you need to grow? I
mean, I don't really understand an old paradigm. It's an old
paradigm of mainstream of ratings of reach of audience,
ultimately of power for many.
So I would posit that if you're just growing your audience,
you're not doing it the right way. The only way to grow your
audience is to have an outstanding product. Boom.
That's it. Just have an outstanding
Any product, and I love what you said the day that you connect
that people connect with. That's what it is. These are no long
clubhouse suck. Get out of here. email, Twitter booster grams,
you know, there's a million ways every community will will do it
differently. But you're serving a community, you may be building
a community. That's okay. Because that's what you're going
to wind up with anyway, whether you like it or not, but this
incessant owe to discovery, I ask people all time how'd you
find the show? I heard about it from someone else. I googled it.
I googled something. And I found it. I never hear anyone say, oh,
yeah, no, I got this from my podcast app from my
recommendations. It's not about that.
Yeah, make a great product. Well, you only reason to grow
your audience, from that traditional stance is that you
is so that you're building up numbers that you can then sell
to an advertiser precisely. And now you just you have the money
just trickling in 24/7. And no one's fast forwarding.
You're not annoying people.
And some ads. I like you know, there's this reps. If I'm
listening to Marty bent, I don't mind hearing the ads. Sometimes
there's something interesting. It's of interest to me. But in
general, do an ad on this show one day, I don't need to hear an
ad for fast moving consumer goods. You know, I don't need to
hear that. Well,
I forget who was
we just read a histogram from somebody promoting their their
podcast? Yes, fine. Oh, I'm fine.
I'm just gonna write something down. Remember, I? I just don't
want to sell my audience to them. No, of course not.
Mitch, let's do some monthly Mitch from pod verse $50. Thank
you, but
always coming in and helping us out.
Krista to char bark. $10.
Mitch always comes in twice. He's got a 50 and a 10. So he
came in with another 10 inch. Thank you, man. Terry Keller, he
has always been given us $4.11 The 411. He's the human
subscription. He is and then I know that he bumped it for 411
to $5. So we thank you. Thank you, but most X is still at 411.
On his
on his. He's easy. It's just a reminder to me every show that
hey, set up subscriptions idiot. Okay, thanks, Terry. Yeah. Alice
gates, the podcasting. 2.0 console. Yeah. $25 Thank you
very much. Nice.
Jeremy, Kevin, all $10 Jeremy and Jerry, Jeffrey Rutherford.
$5. And Chris Cowan $5. Thank you guys. That's all month
lease. And that's it. Well, thank you all very much. This
has been good. We're transitioning to a foreign
Satoshi value for value operation. And certainly what to
aerostatic did helps helps even an out because obviously we have
less income the booster just this less people doing it. But
screw that. I'm happy. This is great. And I find myself all the
time listening to podcasts now like, oh, shit, let me just get
Oh, hold on a second. This is what I think about this. It's
it's a great way to put in comments to feed back to the
podcast. It's a great way to do it. A reminder.
I was talking to the dude in Belgium, he runs a radio station
called memory land 60s 70s 80s.
And it's just starting it up but he's got some investment and I
know the guy's been around. I know the guy because he is I'm
going to give you the comparison. He is the manager to
the Dutch
Garth Brooks.
Which is which is the funniest to wrap your head around that
one nice guy Oh, hats and everything. Almost almost. Yeah,
the the kind of Dutch slash Flemish version of it. And he's
had this idea for a long time. And he wants to do this. He
wants to do a 60s 70s 80s radio station with young people. And
he has a global system with people all over the world. And
so it'll make sense the programming will be live and
there will be it'll be
according to your timezone. So, you know, the music will kind of
adapt to the timezone that is up next. It's a bit the whole, the
whole thing and he actually pitched me he wanted me to
consult for him. And I'm like, you know, I got no time for
this. Yeah, I really don't. I love the idea. I listened to a
test stream. And I said, and then I pitched him. I said,
Well, why don't we do 2.0 And this guy, he went nuts over it.
He's like, Oh my God, this makes so much sense. He says can I
work with him?
With podcast apps couldn't be couldn't. Can we give them money
to promote to promote our stream? So yeah, heck yeah. And
I said, What do you think that they would want to be promoted
on the air? I said, yeah.
So they want the full monty they want the live booster Graham's,
he wants the air talent to be doing that. He wants to, you
know, have membership clubs and sell merch through through the,
through the whole Satoshi wallet system. He'd like to see that as
you load up your money in the app, and you participate in
contests where you could win, he wants the money to come back. So
if you're, you know, whatever, if you call it 100, I'll just
use an old analogy that you win and they could send SATs back to
your wallet, to they really want to go very far. So what I'm
pitching to our app developers, is that we make an entry for
them. I guess I'll just set up a, like a bogus RSS feed or
something. I'll help we'll figure something out and put in
a live tag. And is it pod verse that has a separate radio
section? I think so. Right? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. So that
might be a great spot for it.
He's paying ASCAP BMI, it's all it's all legit. Just a thought
that we could see what we can do with that, because it'll be a
24/7 stream with talent that is literally talking about 2.0.
That would be amazing. That's one you know, that part of that
is one thing that nobody's done yet. Is the boost. Boost going
the other way? Yeah, totally doable, but nobody's done it
yet. But that would be a really cool thing. I just want to get
them up and running with
with MK Ultra.
Oh, yeah. So we can Yes. Are you made with the booster gram app?
So that yeah, I just read it all. Exactly. Well, also the
whole life thing. You know, they need a chat box when people go
in, did it. Whether that's from a page, but I prefer to be from
the app, you just send a booster gram while you're listening.
Hello.
And then the DJs will read it back.
They need a they need a
way to call it.
They need a node going oh, no, no, he's he's, he's ready for
me. He's already like, do you think that we could have at
least one app that works by December 5? I said no. Well, I
don't know. He's got a promotion in mind. He's already this is
how this guy thinks remember managing the Dutch Garth Brooks?
You got something going on? Yeah, I mean, that'll get you
right in that he's a nice he's been trained in this. Yes,
exactly. Yeah. And he does festivals and so he has he has
very very big plans and I just I completely orange pilled him and
I didn't take much because he's like he's you know the the
Belgians in my they're kind of like the Texas of the EU in a
way the Flemish at least not the French part. They hate each
other to
Belgium is isn't that the one that's like part for part
fringe? Yes. Part. Yeah. The Flemish Yeah, and you have the
balloons and they hate each other and the end so the Flemish
part speaks Dutch with it like Southern accent only like like a
drawl. And the French part speaks French obviously. And and
if the whole place is a mess It's the most corrupt country in
the world of course the the European government you yeah in
Brussels.
The Belgians you know, they they have a parliamentary system.
They couldn't get a coalition together. They'd never
government for like four and a half years or something and no
one cares like new whatever. They said, is a longer danger.
The danger is when you don't have a government and then
nobody notices anything.
Oh, wait, we got to get one real quick because they realize it's
a scam. That's exactly.
Anyway, so they got a 256k stream and and when he gives it
to me, then we can use it and I'm not sure exactly what needs
to be done. Someone tell me I'll be happy to do it. I want to
help this guy out. And I'd love to see this work because it's a
logical step. And the programming is pretty
interesting because yes, indeed, you might go from Pat Benatar to
Bucks Fizz that is possible on memory land Yes sir. Memory land
I love that neighbor. Right well, it was called yesterday
land and and so I did a three hour chat with him where he
wanted me to consult him now I'm not going to do that, but can I
make a suggestion memory land. So yesterday was yesterday is
done memory this day forever. And then and then please add
superstation to it. superstation memory land
that's you going back to your room? That's big. charging money
for that. Yeah, we should. Well, we'll be in this split. He said,
you'd be happy to put us in the split. And anyone else of
course, you know, this. He understood he understands the
idea didn't didn't flinch when I said this is completely
voluntary. Cuz he was like, oh my god, anything
to not have to brake every 20 minutes for the shittiest
commercials. It's a pain in the ass my whole model is based on
it. He says Can we also can we then split off money and pay the
air talent as a yes. Well Sam Sethi at at at River radio he
needs to do the same thing get get a node put the boost gram
app into you give booster gram app to your video. Yeah. on
there. Yeah, come on people. Why didn't Why did to do jocose in
the South have to come up with all these ideas. What are you
doing? Yeah, like you have jobs or something?
We're breaking breaking new radio ground. Nice work. Did you
get it?
Alright, Dave, anything else for you?
No, I'm good. I'm heading back to the office. Okay. Yeah, I'm I
feel better. That's the most important thing. We got to get
you healthy and keep you healthy. Yeah, I'm gonna have it
on my to do list do not still be snotty and gross by next Friday.
Don't be snotty and gross. And remember Bucks Fizz brother
Bucks Fizz
that's it for podcasting. 2.0 for this week, we'll be back
next Friday with another meeting of the Board of Directors. We'll
see you then everybody bye bye.
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