podcasting 2.0 for December 17 2021, episode 66 dropped the
game definitely one of my favorite titles. Hey everybody,
welcome to podcasting. 2.0 It's the podcast that really is the
meaning of the board of podcasting. 2.0 We tell you all
about what happened in the past week in podcast index.org What's
going on with the podcast namespace? And of course
everything happening in podcast index dot social. I'm Adam curry
here in the heart of Hill Country, Texas and in Alabama.
The man who has the fastest follows my friend on the other
end, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Dave Jones, dropped, dropped.
What gate are we dropping?
Well, the gate we dropped was the one I dropped before we
started to get rid of the noise.
Yeah, I just, I'm good and feeling good. I had a I had a
humongous bowl of collard greens. Oh, the show is gonna be
really interesting. I'm in a small room. And when the doors
closed,
only people in the south understand what you're talking
about when it comes to that, I think
I think is collard greens. Is that Is that not a way outside
the south thing?
Oh, possibly. I don't know. I thought it was a South thing. It
Yeah. So I got this risk. Okay, so I'll give you the recipe.
Oh, please do yes, we definitely need need more food talk on this
show
to podcasting to point a recipe tip. So caught this color green
recipe is a pound of collard greens.
For those who don't know what collard greens are you probably
have to tell people because not everyone knows.
Well, it's like, it's it's like, they're good in general. They're
greens. They're like these. It's big. It's like It's like if you
took kale and scaled it up by like a factor of three. That's
that's what a collard green looks like. It's a scaled up
kale. And, and, but it doesn't tell me to say but that actually
tastes good. Where
it doesn't taste like kale tastes like you know, cardboard
drenched in urine is horrible Feet. Feet. No, that's actually
a good one tastes like exactly. The
so you take it. There's different kinds of greens,
there's collard greens, turnip greens, mustard greens, there's
there's various varieties there species of collard green of
greens. So the the, the collards are a little more tender, I
think, but you get so you can get them at store, they're all
chopped up in a minimum, you know, like pre, we can get a
whole either a whole also but you can get them chopped up in a
bag is like two pounds of greens. So you take your you
take your greens, stick them in a pressure cooker. Okay, yeah.
Then, in a skillet or cast iron skillet, get a little bit of
butter in there, and brown and dice up an onion and brown it
and then fry up about four pieces of bacon on in the in the
same skillet. Then pour in about two cups of bone broth. Let that
all mix up and get all you know all the goodness in there. Dump
it in with the collard greens in the in the crop in the pressure
cooker. And then pour in a bottle of barbecue sauce.
That's gonna be your secret ingredient right there. Yes,
it's got now it's critical. It has to be a vinegar based
barbecue sauce sauce. Not a sugar, butter, not a tomato
based. So a vinegar based barbecue sauce. Throw that in
there. And then pressure cook it for about 15 minutes. Oh, so
good.
The more you know, in the morning
now, I ate like three bowls of them the other night. So I mean
you. You may you may have to carry scissors with you to the
bathroom. That's the only that's your only warning.
Yeah, they're good. They do taste good. Oh man. Well, while
you were doing all that I was out promoting podcasting. 2.0
hope you enjoyed your cooking.
Hey, I was promoting it. I was I was on the tour too. You don't
even know what I was. No. What
show were you doing?
I was interviewed by Chris Fisher from a Jupiter
broadcasting coder radio Linux Action Network.
What what's the name of the podcast?
He doesn't know yet. He's going to put it on one of his shows
but he's got like three or four different shows. ready made dice
it up and sprinkle it around a few different shows.
Oh, okay. Well, you may have me beat them. I didn't have any
multi split shows going on.
Yeah, but you got you went straight to the top with the new
media show.
Well, first no first we had mere mortals. Which was this was
quite interesting. Cuz I've obviously I've been Ever seen
Kyron? Because I've only listened to the podcast, I
didn't even know that he also put this out as a video. Mm hmm.
And, you know, so and then he's like, Oh, I'll send you a link.
To be honest. I really prefer doing audio interviews, just
without seeing the other person. You know, and not because I want
that because you said that before, why do you? It's just
me. This is why I love podcasting. Without video in
general is first of all, I have to be self conscious of my
Tourette's and all kinds of weird shit that yeah, just that,
that that's just a little more tiring. It's not like it's
horrible. Second, but as a part of that, when I'm talking when
I'm telling a story, I often have my eyes closed. If I'm
really into it, like on this show all the time, I'm talking
with you, I've my eyes closed. It's it's weird. I'm conscious,
I'm doing it. But I've, you know, it's just like I'm locking
everything out to focus on what I'm saying. And so then when he
published it video, and I didn't have it set up, you know, the
way it would for like Megyn Kelly where I've got it, you
know, at the right eye height and I've got the speakers
instead of the demands on my head and I kind of make up Dave
Jones. Thank you, ma'am. I don't need that. Just so beautiful.
Don't hate me. Right and beautiful. So that was that was
just a little bit. I didn't expect that. But I had a great
chat with him. He did have some good questions. And he's pretty
funny. He's funny guy. And I love the chapter art. There's me
begging for money in my trench coat. Hilarious.
I've not I've not it's in my queue. I've not even okay even
teed it up yet because I saw my new media show came in. Right
and I'm like, Okay, I gotta I gotta listen to this. And then
my, my mind mere mortals. Interview is going to be the
weekend. Listen,
okay. Yes, like two hours ago is long. Yeah. Oh, who's Yeah, I
mean, I really enjoyed it. Karen's it? Yeah. This is a
young guy.
He's really smart dude to read. Yeah. Multilingual. I mean,
yeah, he's he's a he's a man. He's a man about town. Yeah.
A little annoying that way. Yeah. Martin young. Yeah, I
think I think it was good. It was a lot of it was kind of
value for value, the Genesis, but also some things about that
aren't typically brought up. You know, one of his questions was,
so when you're shopping for a castle, what are you looking out
for?
Oh. That is? That's a question I would have never anticipated
what I mean, what did you say? What was your thumbnails? The
truth?
And the truthful answer was, you look for a castle that has a
suitable spot to land the helicopter. That is the truth.
Back in the day, that what was what it was about? My how things
have changed. But yeah, then I did the new media show, which
came on the heels of your outstanding explanation of the
number of podcasts and podcasts, index.org versus Apple, and the
validity of the feeds, you know, as I said, that was top top top
notch. Interesting since that show, I think more people have
been downloading the database to go sift through it because like,
oh, shit, I mean, really all that sits in there. And I think
we have all kinds of people hitting the API. But we're also
going like, Hey, this is a resource I can get some data
from as, am I correct in that?
Yeah, I think I've noticed that as well. Yeah, there's some new
names like you can I can tell when people are signing up for
the API's, you know. And like, there's a definite uptick this
week. Definite. Yeah. So somebody so somebody is
interested in something.
Yeah. So they wanted me to, I guess, talk about it was, you
know, Rob said, Daniel, can you come by Wednesday, and we'll,
we'll talk about podcasting. 2.0 Now, luckily, you've heard the
show. Did I go too far? Did I did I spank too hard? Did I come
across as a total? Douchebag because I owe everything I said,
I really mean that with love, and respect, you know, and it's
very hard to tell your friends like, Hey, man, I think you
should be doing something else. You should be thinking of
something else. You know,
I think you can say that. I think you can say those things
too. I mean, we all have these relationships where, you know, I
can say things to to a friend of mine that somebody else couldn't
say. Right. And I think that was the relationship there were I
mean, you you have innocence been in the trenches, because
you're talking about Ron Blum and all these things that have
happened in the past and so, you're you've been in the
trenches with Todd and rob it for you know, back in the days
when when all this stuff was just brand spanking new. And
you're trying to each start businesses as well and grow them
into something that would would work and that kind of thing. So
I think, I mean, because y'all have been in in the trenches
together for so long, from different sides of the industry,
I think, I think you can say those kinds of things. And I
think I think they take it at his face, I think they take it
at face value as to what it is just, it's your face your
hunches and your advice, which tend to be correct. You know, I
mean, like, look, look at history on the most mostly your
your track record is, is pretty spot on. So I think I think they
take it well. I didn't I didn't, I didn't, I didn't hear any, you
know, any kind of grumble
well, but I was also trying to do was trying to tell them, you
know, it's like, hey, other other people in your space, are
pulling ahead of you. And it's fine. But I'd hate to see you
just kind of you know, when something big pops and you've
got to scramble, that's gonna suck. Because it will happen.
It's something this how it goes in podcasting. I know, it may be
a month, it may be two years, I don't know. Something's gonna
pop and then a wave will come. And you know, just having a an
open. My whole mission was to say cheese, guys, I know, I know
that you have to make choices. But don't you see that? That
Facebook and Spotify and they don't care about you? There's a
lot of people over here who love you and care about you. So
implement some shit.
Yeah, yeah. The the in the independent podcasting
ecosystem. They're committed, and they're people who are
loyal. So those independent podcasters, they stick with, you
know, there's always some that jump jump around from place to
place. But in general, I mean, you have when somebody dedicated
or like commits to a host, whether it be blue barrier, you
know, Lipson or Buzzsprout, or RSS calm or any of these guys,
typically, they stick with those folks for a long time. And we
still have we have to remember that. I think it's good to
remember this that a huge portion of the independent
podcasting ecosystem are creators who don't care about
making money off their podcast. Yeah.
And I reminded them of that as well. It's like, you know, stop
with all the growing your show and advertising. Some people
just want to podcast.
I mean, look at the lady that, that James and Sam interviewed,
who got her show on the US Virgin Airlines, airlines, and
delta. She's like, Yeah, she she's, that is a show with wide
rage. And she's not kitchen and care about monetizing. And she's
like, this is a passion project. And I think there's that, but
that's also a monetization in just not in coin.
It's a in so and that's unique to podcasting. I think when it
comes to media, now, you may have something similar to that
in like, like a local music scene where you have some bands
that are just, you know, they go around, and they they pretend to
play in clubs and make a little bit of money just to cover
expenses, but they don't, they just do it because they love it.
It's not because they're trying to make a career out of it. That
may be the only thing that I could think of that would be
slightly comparable to that. But I mean, in general, when it
comes to media, podcasting to have almost 50%, the number I
saw was like 47%, of podcasters. This has been a few months ago.
They don't care anything about monitoring, right? I mean that
to have almost half your industry, paying you paying you
every month for your product, but they themselves are not
trying to get any money out of it. That's pretty amazing.
So on the heels of that, I got an interesting note from a buddy
of mine, Dutch guy who's one of these guys. He's been at really
big companies and very important positions. And I mean, one, I
don't want to mention it, but I can tell you that he's on the on
the board of we transfer. And he's actually he's Dutch. So I
know him from I know him way, way back. But now he lives in
Italy, or I don't know. So I think he's just kind of mucking
around. He doesn't have a gig right now. But he's on the board
if we transfer and he says, Adam, you know, I'm trying to
move for two years but trying to motivate the management here.
What can we do to move into it now? His words, right? Web three
crypto and an NFT. Okay, so So but I hit him back I said, Well,
here's the opportunity. What if it now I don't know what web
three is? To me. It's actually the antithesis of centralized
services like we transfer or what what if we worked with we
transfer as a storage facility so they open up an API now I'm
totally thinking ln, what is it? What was it? We looked at this a
long time ago. Dave, where you pay for the API was Satoshis on
lightning. Oh, LSAT, LSAT. Yeah. So I'm thinking LSAT, and you
can hook up anything at now they could, they could do this with
podcasting. But think of the interesting interface for music
using the index, or podcasting for that matter. Where the
payment is per access and not, you know, not like a flat rate
or, you know, some some other mechanism that brings it more
into the value for value chain, or maybe there's just a value
split, they seem to be open to talking about all kinds of
different stuff. They just want to diversify their services and
ultimately, their store and forward. Right. I don't know, I
just had to had a thought, you know, it's like, oh, maybe curio
caster might hook into that. I mean, all kinds of fun stuff
could happen.
Yes, the first thing I thought of too, is Kira caster, because
then, you know, Steven needs a place to store those enclosures.
Right, in any that this,
but also how about, how about storage, if you know,
transcripts, you know, all of this stuff, but there's all
kinds of stuff that they could be diversifying into without
really, you know, without ruining their core business? I
guess? I don't know. It's just these things are out there. You
know. So going back to, to our, you know, our our friends in the
hosting business. And there's just a lot going on?
Well, it goes, that kind of brings the thing back around to
what I think what we've been saying for a while is that that
the store, the storage and stuff is so cheap, that it's not a
moneymaker to sell bandwidth anymore. Exactly. Really, the
value of a podcast hosting company comes from the tools
that they provide. And I to me, really, that's the only value
because you can take you can set up, right, right now. You we
could instead of, you know, publishing this show to your
CDN, we could go and publish it on a object storage somewhere on
AWS or whatever, and then put CloudFront in front of it to
cache. And it's not going to be any more expensive than a
hosting company, or automation. You would you go ahead, no,
please go ahead. The reason you would use a hosting company is
not because you're going to you're solving a stat, you know,
a $1,200 a month, bandwidth bill, reason use a hosting
company is because doing it all yourself in the publishing tools
is a pain in the butt, right? And you don't have access to all
the features and everything that you so from your standpoint,
what you're telling, you know, Todd and Robin in anybody else's
hosting business, it'll listen is that you have number one, I
think you think you have to double down on your core, on
your core. And a large percentage of that core is going
to be people who don't care about monetizing. And then also
you have to make sure that your value that you're giving to the
core to your audience, is is what you think it is. So like
what I mean is you're you're not you're not a bandwidth company,
you're a tool provider. And so in any feature provider, so you,
you have to continue to add tools and add features. And and
I think everybody understands this, but but as you're going to
come to a point where the features that you're adding are
going to be stuff that is going to protect your business from
competition from walled gardens. And at that point, that's where
the podcasting 2.0 stuff comes from.
Yes. And it made me it made me mad because Well, Matt is not
exactly right. But Todd threw up the well, you know, if anyone
starts supporting these, I'm like, Okay, now you got to stop.
There's 10 apps, or more supporting these features. You
have no excuse anymore. It's just no excuse. Now, if you're
going to sit around and wait for Apple, okay.
Yeah, I think that we talk a little bit about that. With I
can't remember it was on air off air yesterday when I was talking
to Chris Fisher. And, you know, I was telling him he was asking
about a couple of specific podcast apps that I won't
mention, he's like, are, you know, they do anything with
this? Are they doing anything with this? And, you know, what I
told him is I'm like, you know, I don't it doesn't that doesn't
bother me. They're going to, they're going to because that's
the roadmap that has now become the roadmap, things like
transcripts, chapters, sound bites. These things are not just
sort of optional things that some apps can do and some apps
can't. It's on every these things are on every apps radar
and a Every apps roadmap, it's just a matter of where they are
in the priority list. But if it takes a year for one app to do
it, or three months for a different app to do it, they're
all going to do it. Yeah, I agree. Because we, I mean, we've
paved the road, forward comments. I mean, you know, as
soon as one app puts in kick ass comments, distributed comments,
oh, it's, that's gonna be game over you. You've got to do every
but every other app is going to need to support that. Yeah.
Because I mean, it's just the way that these things go. Well,
speaking, not worried about it. Speaking of such cross platform
comments. Do you have any idea where we're at? I have no idea.
I have no idea.
I mean, pod verse.
I watch the pod versus not
an arrows. They go why? Mitch took some arrows, you know,
getting in there and digging in and learning this stuff.
Right. But has he has he put anything in that we can see this
working?
Yeah, yeah. It's, it's on the list on the web on the web
version. Okay. Yeah. The web version? Yeah. Yeah. It's like
this policy, pod version, pod friend, both surface these
comments. And what one thing that's happening that I like a
lot is it's scary to do something like this in your app,
because I mean, holy cow, what are you doing? Right? You don't
just drop this thing in there out of the sky. I mean, you have
to like, it's, it's a big lift. So I was really appreciative
that Mitch, like I said, took the arrows and was willing to
just risk it. Oh, yeah, totally. But then. So one thing I'm
excited about, though, is John Spurlock has been doing a deep
dive into activity pub, and he's been documenting everything that
he's discovering
Holy crap, I'm sorry. Holy crap, this looks good.
That is slick. And
on pod verse, the comments. Yeah, no, we just can't comment
back yet. We can't add a comment.
Right. And see, that's the part that's one of the things this
this burlock is talking about. That's in his documents that
he's sort of, I don't know what you call it journaling. As he
goes, he's he's part of it, as poet is posting back, and all
this kind of stuff. So I think, I think we're gonna see this
stuff begin to accelerate over the next, you know, two, three
months, which would be amazing.
The whole I haven't really paid much attention to I know that
he's also been working a lot on the UI. And this is really, this
is really nice. You got drop shadows in there and shit and
holy crap.
It's almost as good looking is one of my things.
Why yes, you're so right. Dave. Your interfaces are most
say, yes, they're beautiful.
Text Link. Yeah, right. I'm very excited about that. Also, we
promised we would talk briefly about Ryan's transcript service
that he's been working on if you've been following on the
email.
I've been following passively. Because I don't really have a I
don't have shows to publish transcript to and I know you've
been, you've been kind of looking at it, can you? Can you
catch me up on what's been done?
Yeah. So he, in essence, he has an automated type service where
you publish and then the transcript is automatically
created. It's a known URL, so you can pre publish with that.
And you don't have to do anything. No uploading of files.
It just works if I understand it correctly, which, holy shit.
Isn't that what I want? The problem is the he I think it's
the either the output file Wait, no, I think it's just a part of
it is his service is doing Takt Time tagging by word I think.
And not by every two lines. We have to dive into it. Okay. In
fact, maybe, maybe I should put it this way. Hey, Dave. We have
some time helped me on this Ryan Tapscott transcripts servers
because I'm a little lost. I'm not quite sure what to do. And I
want to I want to implement it. But I'm afraid because I know
what happens when you when you screw something up in the RSS
feed, and I've just become older and wiser. So I'm very careful.
Even though I'm itching I'm itching to do stuff. It's like
the same with you know, I haven't quite figured out I
mean, I can but I haven't quite figured out how to post
something like a no agenda in a comment with with my
credentials, I have to find them on no agenda social calm, so I
need some help with that. Because I think that if I do
that from no agenda, social everyone posting commenting on
my initial post that shows up in the app, and that'll look pretty
damn cool, right?
Oh, yeah. Yeah, that would that would look great. Yeah. So it's
these little things that I need some help on because I'm afraid
and I just want to screw it up. It's it's Not just don't live by
fear, Adam, I hear I'm definitely afraid because it's
all the emails and the tweets and everything is just like my
whole, the timeline of my life becomes polluted with. Hey, man.
That's the way Hey, man. You didn't upload it to iTunes yet
I'm very excited about that kind of service, you know that I
desperately want to have something like that. How
beautiful would that be so easy.
You know what I'm looking for right now. Todd on the new media
shows that he had a mastodon server.
But he uses his podcast index account when he posts with us
and maybe,
maybe, no, who knows. And I'm trying to find trying to find
the the geek News Central Mastodon because I was gonna see
if I could post something over there about about the show.
Like, Oh, I get it over there. Yeah, we also try to comment on
it. I see. I see.
I'll look back. I'll look at Ryan's thing of I've just been
reading the emails as they come in, but I'll dig into it.
Alright, quick heli pad update.
Well, actually, I talked to on telegram this morning. I talked
to Luke Childs, who seems to be the I hope I'm Miss speaking
here. But he seems to be the lead developer on the Emerald
side of things. So he was trying to test out. This is funny.
Okay. So he was trying to test out the help pad app for the
they've got a new release coming up in a few days. So he's trying
to get get it all tested. And he's He says, Yeah, and I need
it's running, but it says there's nothing show. So okay,
well, me and Brian of London. Both said well, we can send you
some booster grams if you send us the note ID and as a test.
And so he messages me on telegram I think he messaged
Brian also, but he deems me on telegrams, like you know, okay,
here, it's setup. Here's the note ID and a sin and once the
pod friend and I'm not sure if pod friends value for value
might be broken. But a couple of times, I've tried to send things
through pod friend and it has not gone through.
I haven't seen that problem. I switch back and forth. I have
been using pod friend. I I can check and see if Yeah, so I've
seen pod friend booster grams come into my node. I have
noticed some some things where you just get a blue screen and
it doesn't really catch.
Yeah, I'm not sure. That's right. I tried to send to him
through a pot for and it didn't work. So he's like, Well, you
know, don't worry about it. Well, you know, it's getting
late here. I'll you know, I'll pick this back up in the
morning. And
yeah, I just informed I got I got I got from pod friend.
Okay, well, just so he you know, he bails out of the emails out
of the telegram chat. And then just I'm like, Okay, well, I'll
just get a send you one through curio caster just for giggles.
So I just shoot one in I didn't tell him I was doing that shoot
one through kyria caster. And he comes back on the telegram chat
and he was like, whoa. He was like, I just got something with
a Pew
delight like, man, if your lights it does, he was like,
this is rad, man. This is cool. So it's working. It's working.
And so he got he got at work. And he he had one good point
that we're going to need to fix. And I just didn't think about
this, which is he said, Aren't you it looks like you're
referencing external images within Helpout app. I said,
Yeah, it's those the app images, you know, yeah, they're, they're
coming off our website. And I said, Well, yeah, because I, in
case we add new apps, I wanted it to be dynamic, so I'm right
to do a whole new release. And he said, Yeah, that's not gonna
work, because you're leaking your IP address every time
right? That's right. You're leaking out. That's right. You
leak us. Yeah, you're leaking ever. 1000s of umbrellas are
being sucked dry from their Bitcoin because of a suspicious
leak of IP address?
Yeah, coming from this new thing called hell. What
is that? I don't know. But curry had one near his castle.
So I was like, okay, yeah, you're you're right. gotta fix
that. So I'm gonna do a new release. Hopefully today. It
fixes that and then the retest and try to get it back. Cool.
Well,
we used for carrying the Keeper which we did yesterday, episode
number two, everybody. If you want to drink some wine, have a
little chat use the juice. And so I just went into heli pad. I
just, you know, show older boost. And I did a CTRL A Ctrl C
No, I'm sorry. No, that's that's what i i Here's how I started
doing it, I took the database took a copy of that and did grep
minus a
keeper. Okay, wait, let me stop you right here real quick. That
was
really cool. Yeah, of course, it's a binary file. I know, I
know, this is what this is what Adam does. Let me make a piece
of software and you give it to him. You won't hear, you'll hear
a couple of quick bug reports and the fix those and you won't
hear anything for a month. And then the next time you talk, you
say, oh, yeah, how's this thing? This thing going? And what Adam
will do is we'll say, yeah, there's been this one little
thing that had to work around. And then we find out that it was
this long as huge workaround for something that you could fix in
10 seconds. And he's been doing this every day for a month.
Because I don't want to bother you. Now, yes.
So what is this control A Pew thing?
Well, no, first first, I was because I wanted because I have
a mo facts split on this. So I can track the booster grams of
God. You know, so a couple of different splits that I get no,
and so I can see, but it's all mixed up in one timeline. So I
needed to separate that out. So the first thing I tried to grab
the database I'm like, well, maybe it can look in this
database, you know, it's like more database.db binary file
reject. They're like okay, let's do more database.db grep pipe to
grep switch a and then keeper and it gave me all the lines. It
was perfect. Oh, this is fantastic. But it was almost
unreadable. And then I just like you know, how about this, I went
to the web, I went to the the web interface, clicked it on it
and you got all the all the booster grams, and then did
select, you know, copy and then select all copy and then paste
it into an outline, and then just manually removed all that
there's Adams work around, manually. All of the shit away.
Until I only had the Korean the keeper booster grams,
and years you're still looking for this is all to try to fix
the lack of a CSV. That's
correct. That is correct. That's the whole reason I'm doing this
next release, baby. I love you for that. Hey, you know,
speaking of features and apps, and I do want to say as we near
the end of the year, I am so proud of everybody at podcast
index dot social. Everyone has been working on this stuff
podcasting. 2.0 totally app developers. Holy, holy moly,
crap, what a year. It's, it's unbelievable. This is going at
five times the speed of 1.0. It really is and fun to watch. And
when I see articles showing up that don't mention podcast
index, Adam curry, Dave Jones, anything like that. And it's
just about podcasting. 2.0 I get excited
that I like that too. Yeah, I like that. You
know, it's like, okay, this is what I want. I want people to
forget about what we're doing over here. Just can we use it?
Are we at that level, but we're getting there. We're getting
there. Okay, I
want it to be. I want it to just be a thing that exists.
And we're getting there with the help of our guests in the
boardroom today who have been patiently waiting as Dave and I
had been yapping away just catching up our own little tea
party. From podcast guru, we welcome Jason Hudgens and Joseph
Hill.
Hey, hey guys, how you guys doing right?
I actually want to show yeah, we should be doing Hey, guys.
That's how we supposed to do it. Day. We got to coordinate you
guys. Hey, guys.
Hey, there. I like Hey,
there. Hey there. Go ahead.
Yeah, I was gonna say, I have been wanting to trying to get
Jason and dropping the ball for so long. And it's like, you've
you've been quietly podcast Guru is off my radar screen for most
of each week, because I'm so focused on boosting and
histograms and, and there's no value for value in it. So I end
up in it ends up getting pushed to the side of my phone. And so
I only use it about once a week. And but you've been quietly like
adding just feature after feature after feature. And I
mean, you've got like, You got so much podcasting 2.0 stuff in
there now. It's such a like, it's just a beautiful app. We
had it. When did y'all. So I want to I want to start off with
some text. And I know that there's bigger sort of higher
level stuff to talk about. But I want to, because you're one of
the only apps that did it has Android and iOS and a lot of 2.0
stuff in it. And I want to know, just if you can tell me what
framework you're using for being able to do that. Or are you do
you have separate code bases?
They're completely separate. So Android is mostly Java with a
little Kotlin. And iOS is a completely different app all in
Swift.
Oh, wow. That's so I mean, okay, that, that leads me to my next
question. How big is your team? How many people
it's, it's changed over the time over time. Right now. I'm a
longtime Android Dev. So I do most of the Android stuff. And
then I've got another guy that helps me with more of the iOS
stuff. And we started on a website too. But we haven't
barely gotten in the podcast in two points stuff on the website.
So I'm trying to learn some react in the background.
Just want everyone to know that Jason is literally talking into
a webcam right now just to actually sound to have some kind
of volume on the show. And and I apologize, there's literally no
technical way for me to add a little, a little high end to
Jason's.
It's a good visual though with a holding a webcam. And I envision
one
of those Logitech balls, you know. This is what you sound
like. You're now on the show. Yeah. We got to get Jason to
Mike everybody.
Yeah, we were talking about we were talking about that going
into it, but it's gonna Jason is now just messing with his father
keyboard all the time as deep in the bowels of the system.
I'm just, I'm just messing with you. I have a thing for sound.
So that's so that's Joseph. So Joseph, are you on the iOS side
of things?
No, I'm not. I'm actually more on the, on the marketing,
business side of things.
You're this, you get you get,
ah, there we go.
Well, that's why that's why I focused on the microphone.
You're the guy that comes in is like, okay, it's lunch.
Lunch, I just want I get
that's valuable, that is valuable. You know, role is
important. I gotta keep productive people productive.
So I just want to go back Jason for a second. So when When did
podcast guru was first released?
I won't say it's been out two years, I probably started
working on it just as a hobby that four years ago.
Right. Um, but it's been it's been kind of a staple of the
Android world. If I'm not, if I'm not mistaken. I mean, I
podcast guru on whenever I would, since I switched to
graphene, iOS and Android. I've heard so many. And it's also a
great branding. I think so I've heard so many people talk about
it. Well, thanks. Um, it. You know, it started out, like I
said, like a hobby project. And I just wasn't really happy with
apps that were on Android at the time. So I said, okay, yeah,
write my own. I've got some prior experience writing music
app. So this is just take a few weeks. And now four years later,
still working on it.
What kind of music music apps, what the, what's your history
there?
I'm back when Android first launched back in 2007. I really
dived into it. And it worked on a couple different projects. One
of them was an app called toon wiki, which I don't know how
many people have ever heard of that.
That sounds familiar. Another good name, actually. Yes. That's
why it may sound familiar.
It was so it was a, it was a crowdsource lyric app. That was
it was basically just a music player for Android and iOS. And
it had this feature, that's what's called a wiki where you
could you could enter in song lyrics, and then you would
timestamp them. So as the music played, it was almost like a
little karaoke looking thing. But yeah, that was probably one
of the funnest projects ever worked on and when that startup
kind of died, and I went into the corporate world, I just, I
just missed working on this collapse.
Funny how the corporate world will do that. Yes, just chill
stuff. So now that Dave was talking about the features, the
pod The 2.0 features that you support, what I see on, this is
a test, what I see on on the apps pages search transcript,
funding chapters, location, person season, am I missing
anything?
Thanks. That's it. And then we're gonna be adding some more
soon. But basically, I got two or three of those, and I got
some of the easier ones done. And then we wanted to, we really
just stopped for about a year to work on the iOS app. And when it
launched, I wanted one and both have kind of feature parity. So
So we added some more and this is this is where we're at ours
have only been out a few weeks, maybe a little over a month. And
once we've got all the bugs worked out there, we're gonna
keep adding some more PT tags, probably closure. Other stuff.
Oh, you're gonna do alternate? Oh, that's a good. That's a good
one. Yeah, I had talked to you a while back and tried to get you
on the show. And you're like, hey, let's just hang loose. And
because we're working hard and heavy on this iOS app, and maybe
when that comes out, we can, you know, we can talk about at the
same time, and I was in the beta, the test flight for it for
a while and it's just, it's just such a pretty app. You know, one
thing that's hard to do, it's really hard to do from a UI
perspective is to get All the features into the UI, in a way
that doesn't look like this kitchen sink of garbage
everywhere. And so you end up like hiding things behind other
things or putting little, little bitty, you know, widgets with
hard to hit touch targets on them. And you've at, I don't see
any of that problem in your UI, it looks like everything's just
very easy to access.
Yeah, thanks. I mean, that's kind of our really target is to
try to balance that. We don't have everything single feature
on under the sun. I'm trying to get the most important things in
there. But not but doing it in a way where people don't feel
overloaded when they use the app for the first time.
Yeah, yeah, that, uh, you did the UI yourself? Or do you have
a designer or somebody that helps you with that.
So we do have a graphic designer, most of the UI comes
from just my history, like, I know how to put things together,
but like, you know, the pixel by pixel stuff, we've got a really
good graphic designer, Matt, and he, he helps put my ideas and
make them real, and then we go out and build them. In I'll say,
hit. Good. Just, I was just gonna say that my experience is
mostly on Android. So Joseph has actually helped out a lot with
Matt on is there more IOs guys? So team effort?
What do you see is that I mean, this question for Joseph, what
is the the main audience? What is there? Is this a business? Is
it a hobby? Is it hybrid is maybe in you know, where do you
want to go? What do you want to communicate? what's the, what's
the uniqueness of podcast guru?
Yeah, I mean, I think it's, I think at the business, we'd like
to see it, you know, be be something that, that could fill,
you know, could fill all our time. Um, so I, you know, I
think like, Jason kind of under sells it, because that's, that's
the natural, you know, way of things that, you know, his his
work and vision on it, like, you know, so he, he has this history
with, with toon wiki, you know, going back to the like, before
Android even launched, and they and Google was doing those
competitions. And so like, he has his eye for, for, you know,
what the native experience should be like, but it was
really important for, for Android apps, especially in a
market where, you know, so many the podcast apps target iOS
first. So like, you know, as an iOS user, myself, I was mostly
cheering him on from the side. And, you know, like, hey, go
after, you know, go after that audience, which I think he's
just, you know, done. Like, right. And, you know, you asked
that question earlier about what cross platform framework he was
using, it's like, well, the number one, the number one thing
was to have that native experience that, you know,
injured people would appreciate, and it's just all about the
experience. So, you know, he's avoided, you know, from a
business model perspective, like, it's not it, you know, it
avoided the banner ad, you know, option, which is what, like
everybody else went for. And, you know, we're just right now,
we kind of have it divided between, you know, we have, you
know, we have, you know, some nice features in our
subscription product. But we're more focused on just, you know,
giving a great experience and growing, growing our audience
and user base by giving people an experience that
you have a subscription model, where people pay an X amount per
month.
It's a Yeah, it's a annual subscription. But yes,
yes, that is free to use. Like just said, I really do not like
the freemium model, where you put banner ads, and you kind of
force people to pay to do that. So so I decided to take a
different route, we were going to build some really nice
premium features. So that works fine for free. But if you want
things like having a real time backup of your waitlist, and
everything, you got to pay for that. So that's our VIP,
yeah, what else is in the VIP tier.
So right now, just three things, you can get fine grained
speaking roles, or you can really tune in the bass beat on
per podcast, we have the best features, what I mentioned is
probably the the cloud seat. So it's a real time seek using
Google's FireStore service in the backend. If you have Android
and iOS or multiple devices, is like you can subscribe on one
phone and see update on the other in real time.
That's sexy, very nice. And we've kind
of got that extended to web two. Like I said earlier, the web
still needs a lot of work but you know, if you want to upgrade
or you lose your phone, or something like that, it makes
things really easy. And it's not just it's not just your
subscriptions it's everything so you know if you're listening to
episode you pause 16 minute and remember that
you know what I'm just noticing as the same thing happened with
podcast guru that happened with cast Matic is I was subscribed,
because I was in testflight, but I was too ascribe to the PERT
the VIP or purchase the the premium thing. And this the
little text in the middle, I just never read it and it says
this is for testing purposes only you will not be charged. So
I'm having to upgrade hope I'm not going to lose any new
features in the beta by doing this, but I got a, and I'm going
to hit you with this too, which is I have to hit almost every
developer with the same thing is, you know, this is 1099 a
year. I mean, I want like higher levels of that. I mean, I want
to be able to pay you 25 bucks or 50 bucks a year. You know, I
know, it's sort of a it's this unfortunate thing that happens
with with App Stores and, you know, the app, sort of landscape
that we've come become accustomed to that everything is
like this one payment thing. It's like, okay, my product cost
five bucks or 10 bucks or whatever. 99 cents. But really,
I mean, if you give people options to pay you more, there
you go. They will pay more stunned at how many times they
will pay you more. Yeah, yeah, it's a big deal to artificially
limit the amount of money that that your true fans can give
you. And I think that that's never in your interest.
Yeah, I mean, features are always great. But I agree, I
think I don't think I know many people really, you know, it's
religion, right? Your podcast app is very personal, what it
does, how it functions, because you're interacting with a lot.
And when people love an app, they will love it forever. And
if you say, hey, I need money, they will they will send it to
you. I agree with Dave.
Yeah, yeah. It's exactly what you said, Dave, this, the Play
stores, like you have to set up a SKU instead of a specific
price and add a definition for that product, and you translate
it in at night. So it's, we're very limited by what the app
stores have. Let us do there.
Really? Can you is it? Is it within the rules to just put
like, maybe three different tiers. Like I can subscribe at
this level, this level or this level?
Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's certainly possible.
This is a very packed, I'm very passionate about the pricing
space, I think we've had a lot of passionate discussions about
it. And it's like, you know, picking the balance of not
presenting the average listener that doesn't maybe necessarily
want to think about, you know, the options that they have. You
know, so like, having just one simple option to give people but
I think you know, I think you raise a lot of, you know, a
really good point in for the greater space and large and, and
something that that podcast, producers like yourself have to
have to deal with.
Love this guy. Hold on a second. Joseph, I got to find out your
background. Because if you're not raising money for this
outfit, you should be i Where are you coming from?
i i I read most recently Microsoft. That's nice. started
the company before that called Xamarin. So yeah, I have a
little bit of background on the mobile space. But,
but that's the that's our Xamarin that was part of the
whole thing with dotnet. Cross Platform. dotnet on Linux.
You are you're correct. Yeah, Mano.
Marlin was yes. I couldn't remember the name. Yes. Mana.
That's right. You're part of Xamarin then. Yes. Well, you've
heard of it or founded it.
I was co founder,
Joseph. Now I can't speak on behalf of Jason here but you
sound like the kind of guy who should go out and raise some
money for this little band of bandits and and turbo charge
this operation?
That's that's not terrible idea. Yes. I heard it. I
heard this guy's talk is like, okay, he's still kind of talking
and is like pitch mode. And I appreciate it, because I've done
this myself. But it's good, man. He is that's you sound like a
great partner for for a company like this to have.
Well, thanks to Jason Jason's baserunner, you know, we've been
we've been buddies for years. So it's, it's,
well, good. And then signed contracts now. So these,
everything's clear. So you can still be friends at the end?
Yeah,
yeah. But that's, that's the thing is, you know, the
multiple? Well, you know, I had read this thing a while back
where the biggest problem people have on things like Kickstarter
is they don't give they they don't give the upper levels. So
and you know, they don't, they'll give, okay, well, here's
10 bucks or 25 bucks or 50 bucks, but there's no option in
there. And I don't want to belabor the point, but there's
no option in there to say, Okay, well, I'll give you 500 or 1000,
or, you know, to two or 20 504. There's always going to be a
class of people out there who have enough scratch. That that
the difference between, you know, 525 is just not it's just
a don't think about it in those terms. And so they're always
just going to, they're going to give you the big, big money, but
they if they can't, and they can't. And that's the thing is
like, it wouldn't even be a thing for me. Like, it wouldn't
even be a thing where you had different tears to unlock
different things.
I'm sorry, I, you're you're lying. Now I heard Dave Jones
just say he's gonna give you $2,500 You just need to have an
option for him to do it.
Yeah, we won't, we'll put
that option in there for you. Thank you.
2500 says,
Oh, okay. So the yeah, like I said, the pricing topic that
you're raising is like, very passionate about that. I mean,
going back from, you know, when we were learning about this,
when we were pricing Xamarin. And at the time, that was called
mono touch, we didn't, you know, I somebody pointed me to a book
called, don't just roll the dice, and I that was free, he
was a PDF, you could go download, I recommend it to
everybody in software, because it really just goes right to the
heart of the problem you're talking about, there's like you
need, you need to have these prices out here. So that people
can give you the maximum amount they want to, and then your
feature differentiation is just to give them you know, some
value for that. And, you know, the other side of that coin is
like even just when we move from, you know, an in app
purchase of just purchasing, to subscription, right, or the idea
of perpetual license versus subscription. Like, for most
people, there's not a lot of thought put into those two
options. And so that's, I think, why you see the world moving to
SAS, where you have, you know, people say, Well, I'm just gonna
keep giving you money, because I'm continuing to get value from
this. And, you know, I can turn off the spigot. So I think the
last part of that is like, you know, the idea of having
escalating requests, right, so you can get people you know, in
for a little bit and you add more features, and you add more
value, and you can you know, you have more to offer. So that
that's another way to tease out, you know, the value for from
your biggest fans of the people that are getting the most value
from from what you're offering.
You know, basically what I'm asking you is why didn't you
invite me to the boardroom? So clearly, clearly an expert on
this having never launched a profitable product? We're very
good at this.
Yes, yes. Somebody who buys things. I have strong opinions.
Yes. As do I now. Are there any streaming value for value plans
for podcast guru?
Iam is definitely on our roadmap. I, I was on that
initial call when you guys kind of rolled it out and intro like
kind of the architecture of it. And that's, I remember my mind.
Yep. So I'm just waiting till I get to the point because we want
to, we want to roll it out on obviously, both platforms at the
same time. They're sneak. So I haven't mentioned this, but my
day job is working for a company a very large company in
financial services. So I'm the guy that has to read the FFI C,
retail mobile handbook. You know, we're a compliance
regulations. So we're
totally illegal in all aspects of financial rules and
regulations. I mean, we did Eric is I think we Eric is burned out
several times. Just reading that shit is crazy.
Yeah. It's gray hairs from us. Yeah, right.
I'm absolutely not scared to do it. It's just one of those
things where if I do it, I want to make sure that customer
support doesn't become a nightmare. Right? Yeah, you
know, it's hard enough, you know, explaining to people you
know, okay, well, your your external media, your SD cards
not mounted anymore. That's why your offline files disappeared.
I have long conference, right over that. So trying to explain
to someone why they lost like 60 bucks, it's gonna be even
harder. I just want to make sure we do it safely.
Okay, cool. I like that good approach. Very good approach.
Yeah, this is all I mean, like, that's what I tell people to is
not. There's no shame in being afraid to get into the lightning
space at this point. Because, you know, it's very new
territory. So you don't you know, that's, that's always it
takes. It takes time. And you got to do it. Right. It's been
getting
some good press. I've been seeing all kinds of has Yeah.
valuations and how much money is in the Lightning Network and
that people who trade are now using it for faster transfers.
It works it
crazy. It does.
As was telling Chris yesterday, cuz he was like, we know, Oh,
that's great to be able to, you know, get small little bits of
money, you know, for your podcast, and I was like, No,
Chris, Chris, listen. We've gotten donations of 500,000
SATs. That's like 250 bucks. We've we've had large amounts of
money coming in. This is not like a toy. This is this is a no
also.
No. Neil. Neil Jones, your brother from another mother,
who's the clip custodian? Yeah. Who does that clips for no
agenda so he gets a piece of the In the value block, he gets a
split. And he said, I got this huge amount, you know, like,
it's like 10,000 SATs or something just in one go. I
said, yeah, that's, that was from a mega boost or whatever.
And, you know, he looks at the end of the month, he says, you
know, obviously, it's he can't live off of that. But he says
it's nice. It really is nice little bit of, and he's not,
he's just keeping it. He doesn't want to he wants to keep it for
the value. And he thinks it'll be worth more in a couple of
years. But it, it's you're right, it's not a toy. It's
real.
Yeah. And as from for an app like podcast guru, and I think,
I think it's interesting to think about it in this way is
this like a, once you get into that space, now, a year, you're
also a Crip. A, what, how long say this year, you're also a
crypto company. At that point, because your your, you know,
your part, you can take a split as well. And that gets you into
a whole nother space, also, where you can begin to do really
cool stuff, because now you have access to it. Well, he did that
to that payment.
Here's what's really, you know, and, of course, lots of caveats,
lots of moving pieces, but Joseph you like this, I'm going
to help you out. Because I've done this, I've done this so
many times, I love this. When you haven't, and I know this
firsthand from some of our other developers, when you have
investors, and you say, look, here's our business model,
here's how we're doing it. Here's what's coming in on the
subscriptions. Now, look over here, every minute of every day,
of every week, or every month of every year, there's a drip of
money coming in for people from people using our product. All we
have to do is get more people, more people. And and by the way,
there's a you know, there's an increased value as well,
depending on what you do with that income. But that is so sexy
to investors or, you know, I really anyone and I think that
is, in an odd way. Yes, podcasting is still a vibe of
cool people hanging out together and doing something but there is
this kind of bubbling undercurrent of a common goal of
hey, maybe we can all get a little piece of Bitcoin for
everything we're doing.
Yep. Yeah, I think, yeah, you did it out. I mean, that's I
was, you know, like, we're, I mean, I think the details of it.
Jason, obviously can speak to back. But, but just the general,
you know, we, we want users like you have happy users. And then
you can create that that world, you just right.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's it's a, it's an interesting way forward
in industry for you, for anybody who gets into that space,
because it just opens up. Once you have programmable money. It
just your mind can't stop thinking of all the new ways to
do crazy stuff.
That's it. That's my problem. For sure. It's
like for most most developers, I'm sure you're like this to
Jason. Once you have that, you can think of immediately like
three or four different, different things you want to do.
I want to want to be able to give money back, you know, for
giveaways, I want to be able to, you know, forward, split this
pay these payments up into these different things depending on
what's happening in the state of the app. And it's just, you
begin to just have this overload of cool ideas.
Yeah, and I mean, I'm surprised no one's doing this. But But
like, you. I mean, you could literally make your podcast or
even your artwork and NFT and sell it right from the app.
Store. I don't know if that's a good idea or not, but like you
said, it's just you just sit and brainstorm endlessly about this
stuff.
Yeah, once you get in, once you once you have that, that
mindset, it's like you just can't stop thinking about that
sort of thing. And honestly, that's what podcasting that I
think that's one on a personal level. That's one thing that
makes me geek out about this stuff so much is that's the sort
of kind of crazy feature train that podcasting hasn't had in a
while. Yeah, everything is just boiled down to like, okay, let's
sell more ads. Let's
because most of the conversation seems to be
boring is boring. What's next? Like? How do y'all decide?
Jason? What? How do you decide what feature comes next? Where
do you how do you decide how to spend your time?
It will I listen to my users a lot what they want me to
implement. Ironically, like, back in back when I first
started doing apps, especially on Android, everything had to
support not just portrait but landscape as well. Yeah. And,
you know, this is the first app just said, you know, I'm just
going to let that go. Right. Um, I'm not going to support you
would think that would be like a big deal, but I get almost no
requests where I get more requests for other things. So I
feel like somebody took the handcuffs off off of you
finally.
So Pakistan 2.0 really changed a lot of words, because like you
guys said, Nothing was changing. And podcasts have been static
for a long time. And I started adding this features. And I
don't know if you guys have used the app, I've got a popular tab.
And once I put in like three or four of these PTO tags, no
agenda instantly became like, number one. It's been there for
months. Yeah. So every week they refresh that.
I was gonna ask you how you do that, because that's one of the
biggest, to me, that's one of the landmark features are like,
each app has kind of a personality. And to me that that
popular page is sort of the personality of podcast guru. I
mean, how do you how do you what's, what's the tech behind
that?
So basically, it's only looking at our own data set. So you we,
we basically use a Google Analytics and BigQuery. And I've
just got a basically a BigQuery thing that runs.
So it's, that's interesting.
Okay, so that, so you're so you have if I'm not, if I'm
understanding you, right, I know, you search podcast index,
because I can find I can find shows in there that I know are
not in iTunes. So do you have a Do you have your own database
that you then pull in from, from to from multiple searching
sources, and then you keep going, then you have your own
aggregators?
Kind of I mean, we, we have kind of an on demand thing. So on our
website, okay, if you search, it'll go in a look, it'll do an
iTunes search in the background, and it'll kind of populate in
your criminal database, it doesn't proactively go out there
and, you know, search for stuff and look for updates. But then
we use that data on the back end. So like, for example,
popular I don't remember the exact algorithm using but I
think I just look, you know, over the last week, what's the
most part what are the most listened to episodes and, you
know, it changes weekly?
How do you do the the feature, I'm looking at the web version.
So the so the featured I believe, that's just pulled
straight from iTunes, originally, and then we have our
own little recipe we can put in there. Sometimes podcasters will
reach out to us and, and, you know, work out a deal where the
promo is, and we'll insert them somewhere in that list.
Now I see you marketing that, that get featured. That's cool.
Yeah, that's something Joseph brainstormed, actually.
I mean, you know, and I always tell, or I have told in the
past, developers like, you know, just getting get in touch, or
podcasters, get in touch with each other, put a split in the
value block for a bit and feature them, you know, it's
like is kind of a fair way of doing it. Everybody wins. Easy.
Don't just think about it. So I do see a good idea. Your your
web version is not using podcast index, I don't think
No, not yet. I calm our web. We had a we had a web guy that was
doing some workforce there. And then kinda, I don't know what
happened to him. We haven't heard from him for about a
month. Okay, yeah. So I'm trying to I'm trying to go back in
there and fix that myself. And, man, it's been a decade since I
did a serious web development. So I'm having to ramp up.
Okay. Yeah, I was saying, I think I think that's what Jason
was trying to hedge against earlier, when he mentioned that
the web but yeah, so like, the, you know, Android is still the,
the leading experience here with it, you know, like, you know,
like you mentioned, you know, implementing implementing the
search and I think it's the default over on iOS as well.
Right. Jason?
Yeah. Should be so basically I mean, we started out using
iTunes like everyone else. And we added pockets index as a as
an option over a year ago and it's just worked so well which
means that the default people can still use iTunes but they
have to manually go in there and switch it
so a question about the the popular data set that you use is
your own data set, but is that from usage from your app, or is
it overall podcast usage is something that you aggregate
from different religions?
It's from usage from our Okay, that's really all we have access
to
right so no agenda is basically keeping you afloat. And if I
hear that I should be giving you guys a split you got it. You
have a lightning node. I'd love to give you a split certainly
this episode. I don't not yet. Okay, missing out on free says
man. Yeah, it's free money free money over here at podcasting.
2.0 we just we just give it away.
That's it that would be rectified. We're just
Oh my goodness,
yes. So how do you one thing that I've always struggled with?
Jason for the index is that I want to have I want to have some
some of that, like, featured and ranked in trending and popular,
I want to have some of that data there. But I don't want to pull
it from a third party. Because I have no idea what their agenda
is. And then and, but at the same time, I don't want it to
just be like a crude counting of how many downloads or how many
or something
a game of fiable was, yeah,
see, that's what I'm trying to get at is, I know, it's really
impossible to stop all the gaming. But I, I'm wondering if
you have thoughts on that of how you've approached that to try to
just to try to get at something that's accurate, and kind of get
rid of as much of the gamification as you can? Well,
like, like, in our case, it's just our data. So I can trust
that pretty well. But in this type of case, where you're,
you're ingesting data set from, you know, many different apps. I
mean, that answer sounds like a blockchains metaphor. So if you
you know, if you can see a stream of payments and who
they're going to, that might be one way you could rank things
without having to rely on a third party.
Oh, okay. So like, you know, that's, that's a good idea is
having the boosts and streaming streaming payments as sort of
the signal the signal the popularity?
Yeah, I don't know if that would work over lightning but like on
a later one blockchain data could be a
that's really interesting. Dave when when when the SAT when the
when the payment comes in? Regular streaming SAT? Do you
have any data as to what what podcast is being listened to? Is
that in the to V record of a regular streaming payment?
Dude's in there? Would you be asleep at the wheel?
No, it's terrible. Yeah.
This this this, this, this data should have been all for sale
already on the black market.
What we've never had an we've never interviewed Jason on the
show, so I never had access to this data. But
again, again, your fault you you couldn't get it?
Yes. I'm dropping the ball after Ryder.
I've to namespace questions for I guess for Jason, thoughts
about the media tag and your implementation of it. And oh,
Quran today would be fast follow if you've, if you have any
interest in that, or if you've been looking at that.
I don't know what basketball is.
I can give you well. So we've been trying to solve this
problem of of been able to link like universal subscription type
links so that somebody can say to subscribe to my podcast. And
you could just do a thing on your phone, and it would have
subscribed to it in your in your podcast app of choice, which
sounds like it should be simple, but is anything but
you would need like a universal ID or something
there. Bingo. So we have that with the podcast, Gu ID. And
every every podcast in the index has the GU ID field, the GU ID
filled with it. And that's a universally unique ID that
follows the podcast even if it moves hosts. Do we have that Id
thing? We've got that solved. And so what what my idea was and
I think we sort of hash this out without skates on the on the on
the social was that you would have that we have what we've got
this domain called fast follow.org, I think. And what it
would do is it would take a Gu ID a podcast Gu ID, and then
resolve it to either a link to the website, or the phone or the
feed URL itself depending on which app requested it. So if
like, if a browser did the request to fast follow.org/the
Gu ID, it will resolve to the show's website. But if the if an
app requested it, it would give back the feed URL instead.
So which in theory opens up a default app that is configured
somehow? Well, this
would be done into the in the app itself right. So you
Oh, okay, so the app itself God so you have like a scanner in
the app?
Yeah, like podcast guru would have like a QR code scan or
something like that and you a dude scan it and it would hit
fast follow and get the feed you're
no that's cool. Sounds totally doable too.
Yeah, I mean, is that sound like something that you were thinking
QR codes just because they're easy? And people that had a
resurgence
in you know, Bitcoin and lightning and all this has kind
of brought QR codes but over Fuckit Coronavirus that's
brought QR codes back. Thank you. COVID Yeah. minues
If the restaurant Yeah,
I mean, most, most podcast apps that support OPML import are
gonna have all the plumbing there, they just got to add a
little QR code reader and yeah.
Yeah, I mean, it's, that's, that sounds like something that you
could possibly support in the future, because I'm actively
going to, I think I'm going to start working on that in the
next couple of weeks.
Oh, so, um, a few thoughts. QR codes are ugly, ugly, if you if
you're scanning a QR code, the thing is, it's supported at this
at the operating system level now. So like, you know, one of
the, one of the challenges like I, I'm presented with, because I
have a lot of podcast apps on my phone, oddly, for perhaps
obvious reasons. And do I just, and so, you know, people, you
know, links end up getting hijacked. So, you know, that's
an interesting, you know, problem with, you know, we think
something's gonna open a podcast guru, but it doesn't. But, but
if you're thinking about doing it, you know, if you're thinking
about scanning in, like, you could just avoid QR code, you
can read just about anything in the world. Now. Maybe you could
pick something better looking recognize the URL, I mean, that,
you know, cameras are smart.
And yeah, what like, what do you got an idea?
Oh, I mean, I don't know, maybe? I mean, you could, I don't have
any specific idea. I'm just thinking that like, I mean, you
could, as simple as read a short URL, I mean, like, text, text
can be read. Now. The upside, you know, the upside from my
perspective is like, if, you know, if you had your own
format, and podcast guru supports it, then you know, and
then it does the scanning in app, then, you know, we have
kind of more control over it. You know, are you sure Oh, now,
I know. This is just brains. You know, why brainstorming? Because
that's what we do here. And the more thinking about it. That's
what the boardroom is for Joseph.
Yeah. So I mean, because the the idea of like an app scanning
versus using the system scanner is that you have the system
scanner is still going to be vulnerable to the same issue,
which is, ultimately the iOS does not allow you to set a
default podcast app. Right. And so you can't just launch you
can't say like podcast, colon slash slash and a feed URL. If
that was if the if that could be done. I mean, God, we wouldn't
have to jump through all these stupid hoops that now I think,
correct? Me, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Android does
allow you to set a default podcast app, is that correct?
You can you can like register default handler. Yeah. And
then everything every two weeks, it'll say just once or always,
always gets deregistered somehow.
Yeah. Well, it's, it's really frustrating when you registered
something you don't want and then you have to figure out how
to how to
unregister Yeah, that's the worst part. I agree about that.
Have you? Have you looked at the media tag yet? Because you guys
were looking to to figure out how to do video and signal that
in the feed or music or other types of enclosure formats?
medium, medium medium? I'm
sorry, not medium medium. Um,
so initially, you mentioned video because that's one of the
I think that's completely unexplored in our space. I
remember the first time someone asked me said why don't you
support video is a long time I'm like, what? There's there's such
a thing. So I looked at it like wow, I found like one video you
know, so we made it work with we've got full video support.
And boy,
I didn't know you had that. Oh, that's cool. Yeah,
I haven't I said that. When I said that we didn't support
landscape I lied. That's a one screen where we do is that when
you're watching a video but yeah. I I would really like to
see a lot more video based content. I don't know what the
holdup there if it's just expensive to host.
That's exactly it, then no hosting. Hosting providers don't
offer it and YouTube is free. Yeah, that's that's the main
reason. So we're working on that. That's a longer term
project. We have all the solutions.
Oh, yeah, you're right. I'm here it is animated. No agenda
playing and podcasts. I've never even tried a video podcast and
podcast guru. Your blog is just kind of blown my mind a little
bit. But it looks really good. Cool. Yeah, this looks really
good. Because it's not you. I don't know how you're doing
this. Because typically in iOS, it's kind of a jarring
experience because it takes you it takes you out of it kicks you
out of the app into a full screen version of the video. But
you're somehow able to play this sort of in the app and in a
window
or using the Android or iOS version right now. iOS, okay.
Yeah, I'm not sure like, I'll have to I'll have to circle back
and compliment Alex on that because I didn't Do all that
tooling that was my friend Alex, but
if I recall correctly, that's, that's a recent iOS feature to
be able to do too soon.
Oh, okay. So it's an OS level thing, then
I think so. Okay, that task.
Yeah, cuz, because in the past whenever you would be in a in a
podcast at which most of them don't even support video, but if
you were ever in one that did on iOS, and you click, you know, to
start playing, it would just totally kick you out of the app
into a full screen window of the video. So that mean, it's it's
kind of I haven't even had tried in a while. But seeing that play
in the app is really cool. Because you still have all your,
your features and everything and your chapters and all the stuff
available to you right there. We can see it.
I think we're benefiting from being a new app and Alex just
using the latest and greatest in the nation. I'm just gonna
answer that bralette since he's not here, okay.
Dave, I think we should thank a few people for supporting this
outstanding value for value project open project that is
podcasting. 2.0 you hearing how it's how you seeing and hearing
how the sausage is being made in real time. Which is what we
always do in the board meeting. And if you'd like to support us
with your Fiat fun coupons, you can do that by going to podcast
index.org and hitting the red donate button at the bottom. Of
course, we love the streaming payments, the booster grams, and
what are we starting with today? Dave?
We got a couple of papers. You guys cool with sticking around?
We can do some donations and some boosts. That
didn't sound very enthusiastic. I don't know. Like boost. Boost
me. Like does that doesn't hurt me if they boost me?
Well, Justin, price boost. boosted us through PayPal $100.
Whoa, nice. Yeah, he says,
Hello. I'm
a computer science student who enjoys the weekly entertainment
from the podcast. Podcast addict is an excellent app for Android.
My shirt size is two XL. He's still available.
He knows he knows about the the shirt promotion?
Yes, he does. Hopefully my address is listed with the
donation go podcasting.
Oh, my second Yes. Go podcast.
Thank you, Justin wheat. So Eric, is we're going to get some
more T shirts made because we ran out. And we're having this.
We're having a meeting, discussion on signal about all
of us we're talking about which, like if we wanted to change the
shirt style, and then we never made a decision. Oh, really?
I thought somehow in the back of my mind, like okay, that's done.
I checked that box. What? Well, okay.
Remember, we talked about T shirts? And I said I want a
different lanyards.
And all I wanted was we may notice it. I just want a
different material t shirt.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So we have have to pick that back up. And I
still get everybody that things like two or three people that
needed a t shirt from a donation. I've got everybody
still on the list. And so we're getting this as we print some
more up, we're gonna send them out,
Dave. All we have to say in these days is hey, man supply
chain issues. Okay. supply chain issues.
Bingo. It's like Ellison. They're stuck in LA.
The port. Port. Right. Thank you very much for that was great.
Great donation.
$100. From through PayPal from Ari barotz. Ar IE, I think
that's
it could be from Holland, Dutch, maybe. Oh, okay. All right.
All right. But that's $100 through PayPal and I could not
find a note. So already thank you very much. If you want to
send a note please do. See. Alright, we got some boost. Now.
The booster grant Okay, hold
on a second boost. Boost boost.
Did you clip that out?
How good is that?
It's so ironic. I know. Oh, comic strip blogger. Has 333
sets. He's
back promoting his his AI podcast.
Hmm, yep. He gave us let's see. Give us three donations and I'm
going to read they all they're all identical.
Well, let's, let's let's do his jingle first.
Comic Strip, comic strip, comic, comic strip, comic strip, comic
strip, comic strip.
Strip. To shorten that, to too long. A short.
Comic Strip ball gave us 3333 sets three times and he says
yes, three times. So 9999 He says, greetings from chemistry
at Blogger to podcast in 2.0. Team, Dave Jones and Adam curry,
and anybody interested in artificial intelligence is
welcome to subscribe and listen to the podcast called AI cooking
that can be found in all podcast apps and in all podcast indexes.
By searching for AI cooking, yo,
yo, add that
you can find it in podcast guru because they use our index.
Now, no concert blogger is an excellent example of a value for
value convert, and he really understands it. You know, he was
complaining that hey, some people who I know that they
received my booster gram. They didn't mention it on the show. I
said, You know what your mistake is? This is why I said you're
not sending enough. Yeah, that's why he tripled down on us. Oh,
that's how it works. You need to berate your listeners. Tell them
they're no good. They're not doing enough.
Yeah, and you do that in the app too. Yeah, exactly. The app
shocks you pops up a window hitching the face. Exactly.
Yep. Really. Haptics, of not just haptics. Haptics. We get an
anonymous booster and this is truly anonymous. There's no name
or anything on this it's from Britain three breeze MX 400. SAS
and that the message is just SATs.
Okay, thank you. Alright, thanks.
Thank you. See, Jason, you could be enjoying seeing these crazy
messages come in to your podcast app if your value for value.
Yeah, like really missing out so I'm definitely gonna look into
this.
Yeah, it it's it's crazy. It's crazy. Some of the stuff that
people will send you if you open if you open up the whole
internet send you miss. Yeah,
wait until we get to some of the numerology. Well, the 3333 is a
good example. What's next?
Well, podcasts blogger, I mean, podcast, a comic strip blogger.
Send us another message. And this is a different message.
3333 sets, same message but he says donation from 12th of
September so Oh, that's
for last week he was for Yeah, yeah. Thank you. That's real
money.
Everybody gets checkout a that's that's more
than some people send through PayPal. It is.
Okay, here we go. Harry Duran sent us 1101 Excuse me. 1111
SATs. Thank you. He says long overdue boosts?
Yeah. Booster.
Host very Duran hosted the podcast junkies podcast. Time
for you both to come on the show. What? I'll be glad to
we got here. Oh, Salah nomics. All right. I think this is a
ray. This is a reprieve of last week he says regarding under a
bus jingle This is 2222 SATs second ducks. He says under a
bus jingle with the extra 2222 sat duck boost today. Plus boost
on delivery. I'll gladly add a 5% split to the podcast index
however, Dave will need to help us set that up. I'll be glad to
Dave Go ahead.
Well he's saying under under the bus jingle
Yeah, remember they wanted to do us to do an under he wanted you
to do an under the bus. thing for their opening of their under
the bus segment.
Oh, yes. Okay. Yes. Akon said
you didn't send us enough money.
Okay, so now do I do we owe them something now or are we even
Yeah, we're I think we're I think we're up to speed okay
core square square.
Is for value works people. And
he the what he wrote here it says Dave is a ledge by the way.
I think I want to say it means legend.
I think ledge has worked to let you the ledge I'm standing on
looking into precipice
okay, that those the ledge that people fall off of? Yes. I'm
going to go with legends just from your own. Yeah, for the
jingle I'm thinking a chicken clock that what it okay, that
followed by Adam saying under a bust and is under a bus in his
best Dutch hybrid accent followed by thud
I don't have the sound you gotta send me the sound I don't have
chicken clock. I'm looking now let me see that. No, I have no
chicken clock. No,
I mean how Okay, how about this? How about
I had about this time for reverse everybody. Wait, wait
wait, he wanted me in a Dutch accent?
Yeah, I think he wanted that one. I think he wanted to write
but then
okay, so then he want any any wants me to do a Dutch accent
and then a thought at the end? Is that what he wants? Yeah. Do
you have a thud? Yeah, here we go. Time for end of the bus
everybody.
that's my that's my jingle prowess for today.
That's what 2222 says would get you ready? Alright. See
anonymous through? No, no, this is not anonymous, but he forgot
to sign it. This is from our buddy Karen, it mere mortals.
And he says 10,101 says, oh, a gentle reminder that my chat
with Adam is up on mere mortals. Lots of fun chapter art.
Yes, yes. How you doing booster. Thank you very much.
Cast Pelland says he gave us 3300 SATs. He says thanks for
the show. Thank you, Cass Thank you, Cass of the P land. To set
SC 2500 sets from A D. I'm not sure who that is. This is so
excited that you're into web 3.0. And lightning value for
value is the future.
I know. I need to hear from someone exactly what web three
is. Because it sounds like such bullshit. When I'm hearing.
If you ask for people to tell you what web 3.0 is about,
you're gonna get a lot of opinions. Leah, you're gonna get
brown of London.
O'Brien of London. Oh, yeah. I didn't ask that. The jury will
disregard this.
I don't want to know, he's gonna blow up your telegram?
No, I think that his his view of web three is probably more
correct. I don't know. Understand what we have to call
it web three. But but the general kind of big tech. Let's
ask what's asked Joseph, what's a web three? You're a marketing
guy. What's Web? Three? Are we a part of it? What's going on?
Uh, you should ask Jason.
Man. There we go. That was very slick. Very well done. Well, you
should have said it's no Well, you know, the brains behind the
operation. The genius is Jason. So I always
leave literally, yes, it was literally everything I know
about web three.
That's a good one. Jason, take it away.
Well, I don't have like a really succinct definition. But I think
peer to peer is the essence of it.
Centralized? Yeah.
Decentralized. But you know, you take a technology like IPFS, you
know, so you want to put a piece of content out there and you
don't, you're not going to a single server to retrieve it.
The content content is just, you know, spread like on a
BitTorrent type network.
Yes. Just want to hear Silicon Valley type people talking about
web three. I'm like, well, that's kind of the antithesis.
It's kind of against you unless I'm misunderstanding it. Yeah,
I don't I think that's
why they want to be ahead of it. It's the classic. You know, you
wanna somebody is going to destroy your business. Yeah,
valid, valid point, because, like, Mastadon, would we all
consider that to be web three?
No, yeah, I would. And then and then well, and but web 3.0 Has
this has this like,
it's web three, it's web three, not 3.02. Web three, web never
going to be
important. 2.0333 It's
like Wi Fi size. All of a sudden, we got to call it this
now that we've never had to do that before. I don't I mean,
like web was a Mastadon. is I don't think that's what three is
it?
Well, if each instance it I think it is because the content
flows through the fediverse to each individual piece without it
being reliant on that piece at all.
See, I thought that the whole I thought that this idea of web
three was that the apps don't run the apps run on the
distributed blockchain or distributed
on the blockchain. That's your answer, but love to hear this.
Oh, okay. Oh, I got it. Just another word for Oops. Okay.
Thank you. I got it. This is a CNBC invention, where everyone
was tired and disillusioned from the blockchain. And now we're
going to see, oh, I can predict right now. We're going to have a
stick. stock ticker symbols. Web three, web three. Oh, yeah. So
companies are going to change their name to say and web three.
Yeah, yeah. Okay. All right. Well, then Brian of London is
correct.
Yeah, it's I mean, he tends to be correct, because he's cynical
about everything's right. So Brian
of London. You're correct. No need to explain.
It, Joseph. Are y'all I didn't ask you this. Are y'all funded?
VC funded? Are y'all self funding? How are you doing that?
It's all it's all bootstrap right now.
Okay. All right. Great.
One more booster grams.
Yep. So we got oh for mere mortals, 1123 sets and I'm
assuming this is Karen could be one does I have a podcast? This
is Karen have a podcast called renaissance in Spanglish that I
did for a year but stopped due to time constraints. Do I still
update it? No. But I feel that book reviews from an Aussie
perspective in Spanish is still valuable. I think you're bang on
that it's advertising is the advertising perspective that
views them as less valuable our books in the public domain now
no longer considered books. Okay, so I guess he's referring
to you know, yeah, so called quote unquote stale dead
feeds dead filthy. Dead feed man's dad's dad has not updated
dad can advertise again says no God.
Anonymous 1400 sets and the messages, streaming sets greater
than Spotify.
By the way, that new term for dead feed is it should be
something like evergreen. Evergreen evergreen, how about
we have quite a number of evergreen feeds. Oh, really?
Sounds expensive. Perennial perennial feeds. Ah, okay, I'm
writing it down.
Jon's BRT gave us 4900 sets and he says the pod say just killing
it. Yes, I am Brother. See, sir Pete gave us a sack of ducks.
2200 Excuse me. 22,222 sets. He says this is a medium sized sack
of ducks. These emojis work. Yes, they do. They do. Oh, what
we got here. Oh, Chad, Pharaoh, Chad, Pharaoh of the instant
retweet. Sats 333 SATs. He says streaming at 65 cents per minute
for episode 65. Go pocket. Oh, I like that. Yes. So it just goes
up each episode.
What I like about Chad is he's my canary in the coal mine. I
know. Everything's working because Chad has boosted it.
It's like Chad has retweeted it. Chad has commented on it. Chad
has interacted with it. Whatever it is. Chad has done it. And
it's for everything that comes out like boom, okay. Oh, I don't
have to see this. No complaints is worked for Chad.
He's like the Pingdom Yes, yes. Yeah. Oscar Mary seca sevens
7777 SATs he says boost the dip.
Not yet, by the way. They got some nice swag over there. At
the at the fountain shop and get a boost hoodie. Yeah,
I bought on that mug.
No, I got I got a mug for Tina and I got it. I picked up
another beautiful item I picked up the boost hoodie. Can't wait
to walk around a hill country without Hey, son. What's the
most about you're gonna
be like a double a double sized version of Jack Mahler's
Yes, exactly. Right. And then I need a t shirt with pew pew Yes.
Yeah, that's that's the next t shirt I need.
Have no agenda on these do that Brian of London send us 1000
SATs nice and he says need to remind you about my $10 per week
repeating value for value as high dollars go podcast go
Hi. We got some high high bucks. have books. Thank you, Mr.
Brown. Go.
Alright, we get some monthly so you Alice gates, the podcasting.
2.0 consultants gave us $25 Thank you. I'll add Jeremy.
Jeremy Cavanaugh $10 Jeffrey Rutherford. $5 Chris Cowan $5
Daymond Cassie Jack $15 You're in Miller $10 Paul Saltzman
$22.22 Thank you, Paul. Derek Fisker and longtime supporter
$21. Lauren ball he's now Lauren donation dropped off it like the
Pay Pal dropped it and then he redid it for more money so thank
you. Appreciate that. Cool. And David Norman. He have the
hypertension for cancer. You know I love that hyper catcher
like David is evidently busy with life and kids and stuff and
but hyper catcher just keeps on just keeps on taking
diesel engine. It's a diesel engine of my my entire world
right now.
Yeah, this chapter is just keep on going Drebin. I
look at it from time to time. So how's the diesel engine running?
Still running boss? Okay, you need to lube that thing up a
little bit. Now. Now David's on it. So it's single check off.
Jeremy Gorjuss give us $5 My buddy Timothy Huggins, so on
this past week gave us $25. David would find give us $3. And
Nygma labs gave us $20. And Thomas Sullivan, Jr, my favorite
name gave us $5. That's beautiful. And now, as the
French say, it is timeful
loosed. Well, thank you all very much for supporting podcasting
2.0, the podcast, the board meeting, but really the project
and I love where everyone puts put, I mean, everyone who's
working on it puts into it, too. It's just it's fantastic. We
continue to move forward. And since we have you guys here in
the in the boardroom, is there anything we can do for you for
the podcast, Guru crew?
Yeah. So Joseph had to bail. So it's just me now. But I mean, I
don't think I could ask you guys to do anything more. I mean, you
know, two years ago, I was thinking, Man, I'm going to have
to do my own search individually. Just add in how
much effort that was, is what you guys have provided for free
is amazing. And I just hope you keep doing it as long as you're
able.
Thanks. Thanks, Jason.
None of it for free. None of us for free. But you're you're
doing it right. You bring them back enormous value by
contributing.
Right? Yeah. Is it? I mean, what is you know, all those all the
donations, we just read. I mean, it's, that's, that's what makes,
that's what makes it possible to provide that stuff to you to the
app developers for free. And it is a huge pain in the butt. I
don't think people understand how big of it's a no, it's not
really the software that goes into the aggregation and all
that jazz. It's the server management, and all of the
sysadmin crap that goes along with it, and you got to back it
up. You got to have, you know, I mean, we have 20 servers running
to do all this stuff. And so, I mean, that was really what we
started to do at the beginning was what the whole point was,
was to make it to where podcast guru didn't have to run 20
servers. Because then, I mean, you just don't have time to do
any development when you're working on that stuff all the
time.
No, it's it's an amazing amount of work. Yeah, and I recognize
that, um, because I said, I, you know, I just did some rough math
on you know, how much it would cost me to aggregate all these
beads and it's, it's just not something I would want to buy
off.
Yeah. What what, what do you what do you think in for, for
the near term future? Do you think you'll you know, what's on
your roadmap as far as if you're willing to divulge me what kind
of where you're working on now?
Um, well, we want to continue working on on the podcasting 2.0
features. We're also doing some stuff with the pod chaser guys
trying to get podcast and episode reviews in there. I
definitely want to get with looking at the comments as well.
But that sounds like a rabbit hole. But thankfully, yeah, coin
in front of that. Yeah, so I don't like I said, when I
started working on this app, I thought it was gonna be just a
quick thing and I'd be done and it's never that way. There's
always something else I want to implement. I would love to do
IPF IPFS. Media. Alright, and even going, not even going
through a gateway. Like if I can figure out how to get lifted up
in the app and not read that stuff directly. It would be
pretty awesome. Well, brother,
when you do that, you can consider me your guinea pig. I
will definitely publish IPFS. Um, I'm very excited to see if
we can make that work finally. Awesome.
Yeah, we'll definitely need some people to help us test that
stress test for sure. All right, Podcast. guru.io is where you
can find the the app Jason and I know Joseph had to hop off but
thank you so much for joining us in the boardroom. And thank you
for everything you've done, man. Have a great holiday season.
Merry Christmas, etc.
You guys is a really, really fun.
Mr. Dave? Yep. Anything. Know, I'm, I'm heading back to work.
But then I've got to think at some point tonight, I'm going to
try to get those book fixes in or not, those changes made for l
pack and get that pack back up. And other than that, I've got
I've just got a couple other things I'm gonna look at this
weekend, but I'm good.
Excellent. Well, I'll I'll do the task cam update on next
board meeting, which will be fun because there's some real
nerdiness that I can talk about. So it's gonna be we'll see if
something comes out of that. I may even have more information
by then.
Oh, we got you know, this is. This is Christmas week. So we've
got a we've got a special episode for next week. James.
Caitlin's gonna be joining us.
I know I know you're in review Have you wait he'll be wearing
the Santa bikini? I hear is the board meeting podcasting 2.0
We'll be back here next week. Join us then. Take care
everybody.
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