podcasting 2.0 for February 11 2020, to Episode 73 Spinning
gold at a yarn with excuses to Rumpelstiltskin. Hello,
everybody time once again for the board meeting of podcasting
2.0 Everything happening at podcast index.org with the
podcast namespace. And of course, where all the action
always takes place podcast index dot social. I'm Adam curry here
in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the only
guy who can refresh my metadata, my friend on the other end,
ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Dave Jones.
You're such a pro. For like, is it true me? So you have you have
the road? I'm gonna let you talk about that you have you've
you've got the Rona. But is it true what you told what you have
told me that? You've never missed a broadcast in your
entire career because of illness?
No, 40 years. I've never missed a broadcast ever, for any
reason.
So there has to be at least one or two stories of you have the
camera, the cameras stop rolling, go and barf your guts.
In the bathroom. They come right back when the camera starts
again.
Not quite that story, because another interesting fact I have
not vomited since I was 12 years old. Not kidding.
Is this is this like? Is this like Prince Andrew doesn't
sweat. Is this the same?
I don't know. It's I really don't know. I just I don't do
that.
Okay, yeah. Yeah, taking control of your that was that thing
where you can like lower your breathing your heart rate. But
will you've just told your body? You're not allowed to
correct it? The same way I told my body. We're not getting the
Cuf didn't listen to that or did not listen to it. And I think
really, I picked a fine time to get it. Because things are just
blowing up around you with marketing opportunities for
podcasting. 2.0. But, and I know you had it, maybe everyone I
know has in fact, I was feeling a bit left out at this point.
At least twice, maybe three times. But really at least
twice. Yes.
Yes. So that would have been different. Doesn't matter who
the hell knows. I don't know. I mean, I took a test. I got two
things. You know, I could have the cool if I could be pregnant.
I don't know. I mean, I don't have any reason to, to give
babies have any reason to trust anything at this point. But two
things of note, and I still am definitely I know I'm ill
because I feel well, here's how I feel. I have taste and smell
but taste is haywire. It's like mixed up. Or it's it's like it's
removed elements from from my taste sensation. So, I had a sip
of wine yesterday. It was like biting into tin foil. Yeah, and
coffee. It's like really, really, really better. As Yeah,
and then the worst part is, weed is like a crunchy old stick. So
that's
out. That's your worst part. That would be you
know, the worst part is there is definitely some brain fog,
cognition something going on. Because I you know, I use my
brain a lot. And I feel it the certain things this is like,
Oops, just kind of mushy. And that's really annoying and a
little weird.
That the brain thing. Yeah, there's there's definitely some
brain fog aspect to this where you're just kind of you feel
like you're floating. Like you just don't mind, your brain
can't really land on one thing for more than, like, it's sort
of it's, it's tickling it. It's not actually
a little bit of that it's more just like, you know, it's like I
need to come up with a title, you know, and I just can't focus
on that one thing, everything else I can do. But one thing my
brain goes now I'm done with you.
But not for you. And we do
have two guests joining us of course not really guests but
board members who will be with us in a moment here in the
podcasting 2.0 board meeting. But I just because it's also
about them. I want to say how important it is what we're doing
here. And maybe not for the reasons that that people might
think when I say that so I did another live thing this morning
with Brian Kilmeade Fox News
is another live show. You've done three podcasts in two days
with with the Rona. Yeah, your machine
Well, it's an important time and there's stuff to discuss. But
you know so in now this is a live radio so it's a coast to
coast is a pretty big audience. And of course it's it's it's
great to do live radio, but not really because well we have 16
minutes here hard out at 52 and just like Oh, yeah, I forgot
your interruptive monetization model is very annoying. And, you
know, so of course, what does everyone want to talk about?
Canceled culture and Rogen? Right. That's that's what that's
what. And that's why they're having me on. So well, why are
you having me on? Well, you have a solution for this. And yeah,
that's that's the marketing moment that is happening right
now. Right now, if you look at anything about Rogan, somewhere,
you'll see podcasting 2.0, as an alternative that people are
talking about.
Diets which which in relation to Rogan, I don't like some people
are going off on this thing. Say, Oh, well, hey, Joe, come to
podcasting. That's not that's not going to happen. This. The
significance of this lies elsewhere.
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, it has nothing to do. Yeah, no, no,
yeah, yeah. But we're on the radar. That's what's now I've
look, I was there when we did 1.0. It takes a while for things
to build. And there are moments when you get boost. And this is
one of these moments is not the definitive moment. But what what
is interesting is that people are starting to realize that
Kancil culture is not really political or ideological. Yeah,
it's a part of it. It's being used right now to establish the
rules and regulations. So it's easy for people to agree with
the people who are being banned, banded around first. But it's
really a class struggle. That's what to me, the truckers is
about. This is the working middle class, who are saying,
No, we're done with it. And the ruling class, which really used
to be the working middle class, but they got elected to
something. They they kind of despise the working middle
class. So you know, that's why you see politicians having
dinners without masks, and the people serving them are all
messed up, you know, it's a, it's such an obvious thing for
me to see. And, and what is really underlying all of this.
And that's why to me, we're doing really important work. And
it's and that's just a few pieces of what we're doing is
the ruling class does not want the working class and middle
class to have their own communications channels. And
that is evident in everything that they're saying and writing.
It's that, well, we just can't have Joe Rogan say that. We just
can't have Alex Jones, they just can't have that. Why? Because
they want everyone to listen to their established messaging
system. And that's why when the new messaging system, which is
podcasting starts to say, oh, there's an alternative to
pharmaceutical products that are being sold, that's when you
know, the money comes out. And that's when people go full bore.
But it's Joe Rogan now or anybody, anybody that you want,
and anywhere and on any platform, any any opinion, it's,
it's that person now to establish the rules and
regulations, and then those will be used against everybody. And
this brings me to podcasting. So, you know, when when someone
says, What is podcasting? 2.0? Really, it's apps and services
that use the upgraded podcast standards. That's it. It's not a
it's not like a huge, complicated question to answer.
And the first benefit we get is if you use a new podcast app, a
modern app, your podcast that you listen to won't just
disappear overnight. Now, that's not explicitly true for for
every app, you know, every app can make its own decision, but
most of the apps that new podcast apps comm get their,
their debt data from the index. And that's a pretty safe place.
And so that's where I'm sending everybody. So I'm sending people
to new podcast apps calm so when people hear podcasting, 2.0
they're seeing apps and services, they don't really know
much else. But for that very reason. I think we need to
recognize that podcasting itself with the conversation is is
driving it only in to look at it as one thing. It's not really an
industry. It's more like sports, not a sport, sport, sport. You
can do sport by yourself. You can do it with your buddies, you
can do it professionally. You can do it. commercially. This
it's sport, and it's just as important to sport is essential
to the human spirit.
Tone interesting. Good. No, go ahead. I want to disrupt your
flow.
Tony Khan from WGBH Who is an obvious admission to the podcast
Hall of Fame. He was one of the first to believe in the vision
of podcasting. He worked at WGBH WGBH, NPR, public radio in
Boston. He was, as far as I know, the first to put public
radio on podcasting champion did very, very hard. He was, and I
hope he's still alive. I haven't heard from Tony in a long time.
He really blew me away. In those early days, he talked about
podcasting, bringing something to broadcasting which had been
lost and could no longer be recovered. And he said he called
it civility. And this is the truth about podcasting, any
podcaster? Who was podcasting in the past 24 months, I guarantee
you, no matter what your podcast is, you've received at least one
email from someone saying, Hey, man, thanks for keeping your
podcast going. It kept me sane during these crazy times. And
that can be a podcast with five people listening, or 5 million
people listening. So to look at podcasting in an industry is
always going to be limited by the amount of money and whatever
the amount of award shows we can do. There's an endless supply of
civility in the world. Um, that's all I had to say. So it's
important what we're doing. Well, there's my my crew fog has
screwed up my big my big finish. Yeah.
He just fell off the cliff. I did. It was a The thing I've
been thinking about this week, as there's this, there's been
this sort of background radiation of commenting going on
on podcast index dot social about, in this comes, this comes
up, it's a cycle that comes up every, every four months or so,
of, should the index be divorced from the, as far as marketing
goes, should the index be divorced from the namespace be
divorced from value for value, but like, should all this is? Is
there a podcasting? 2.0? Because because the Free Speech stuff,
and that that comes up on this sort of timed basis? The what
I've been thinking about is there's there's an easier and
there's sort of an easy answer to that, which is, oh, well, the
you know, the index doesn't have anything to do with the
namespace and blah, blah, blah. But as a whole podcasting two
point, I don't think that there's that they're separable
and then maintainable as independent things. Because what
podcasting 2.0 is, is just a representation is a solidified
representation of what podcasting is. Podcasting is, by
itself, decentralized and censorship resistant. And it's,
it is it is a representation of uncancelled ability, if that's a
word. Because just like Sam Sethi said, you can, if you if
your host, D platforms, you so to speak, you can go get it, go
to another one. And you your, your data is portable, from host
to host. And if, if all of them cancel you, you can host it
yourself. That is something that is inherent in podcasting.
That's not something that podcasting that podcast index,
brought to podcasting, podcasting was already that
thing, what we did was, was create the API, and the
database, the downloadable database, to where all those
things can, where all of those distributed feeds can be
downloaded in easily in a single place. That's that's all we did,
we we put feet or, or mate took the cont the the concepts, and
then the building blocks of what podcasts and podcasting already
was, and turned it into an easy to use thing. And so there
doesn't even have to be a podcast index in order to carry
out that mission. I could just take and run those, run those
background services myself on my own machines privately, and then
just make it down, make the database downloadable problem
solved. That the that is what it is. We decided to go one step
further and create the API to make that easy for apps. Well,
then the API is the sandbox for the new for the namespace. And
these things build upon each other. So what really what we
ultimately did, and this is why I don't think that they're
separable. We we just took What podcasting already was, and
tried to preserve it, which was the, which is the first part of
our mission and extend it. Those, that's, that's all we did
you, if you try to separate the index from the namespace, from
value for value, if you try to separate those all into, into
into component parts, you just it just all falls apart, you
lose it. Because that's not no longer an accurate
representation of what podcasting is, as an as a as a
medium and as an industry and as a technology. So I don't I don't
think the the idea that the Free Speech part of things is going
to turn people off so much that they're going to abandon
namespace tags, because the index doesn't censor people. I
don't think that that is even an issue. I've heard so much talk
about podcasting. 2.0 even even on a clip yesterday that John
Spurlock shared some some guys talking about podcasting 2.0 It
never it just never came up. It's not an issue because they
already know that that's what podcasting is.
Excellent point. There's a there's a an article another
article in The Atlantic that came out today, given the
Atlantic is definitely a publication of the ruling class.
Podcasts are no longer private conversations by Caitlin
Tiffany. And I just took two paragraphs from this just to
give you an idea of what the thinking is, by the way, there's
there's no real conclusion to this article other than it's an
outrage that this can be said and people can hear it. That's
really what is being said. In the beginning podcast money was
exchanging hands person to person through monthly fees from
listeners via platforms like Patreon. The big money podcast
wars are just a few years old, and truly enormous exclusive
deals like Rogan's with Spotify are still in a trial phase. But
as the business grows up, and as more reporters or agitators
invest the time in poring over all this content, the days of
podcasting without consequences will be numbered.
without consequences, wow, podcast, I
want that T shirt. I'm podcasting without consequences.
And then the second that love that, like it as podcasting
becomes further entrenched as a mass media format and host
platforms grow in size, these pressures will only increase
work like Patterson, that's a guy who listens to Rogan's show
for to note what he's doing wrong, I guess paid for it may
be getting easier as well. The past two weeks, this was
interesting on a different level. The past two years have
brought lawsuits against major podcast companies like Sirius
XM, and Spotify as gimlet media for their lack of podcast
accessibility features, including transcriptions. So you
see there's this whole these opportunities that we have that
of course, because of the wow, people are saying stuff I don't
like therefore, I write articles about it. Is not getting the
light of day. Yeah. So regarding regarding the separation of the
namespace, look at how the development works. We are
literally developing the activity pub commenting tag,
technology element OP on the fly, you know, doing it with
everything in unison with the API with the podcast index dot
social. I mean, it that's just how it that's how it works. It's
we didn't even plan anything that way. We just said, Let's do
it this way. And it felt good and it grew. This, this would be
the equivalent of a fork if anyone wants to do that. But I
think I think that would be a very, very unwise thing to do.
Well, if you but I want to get it out there that I think that
would be an unwise thing to do. Because I don't like it when I
hear this personally.
If you don't like if you don't like the deep the uncensor
ability of podcasting 2.0 You don't like God? You don't like
podcasts? Yes. Yeah, exactly. You're no longer talking about
podcasts. You're talking about a centralized system. Yeah.
Because that's, that's how it works. So you know, I don't want
I'm not going to be the guy that goes out there and champions.
The free, you know, we roll good and come to come to the fucking
No, no, I'm not No, no, of course not. It's just not me.
But, but what people are doing is they are interested in what
this is. They may or might they may come for different reasons.
So whatever you have your apps and services on podcast
index.org/apps which links from new podcast apps comm make sure
it's good because people are coming to check out Your stuff.
We we are, in a sense, Google. We're the Google layer because
like,
I really hate that comparison. But I
know, I know. I know it. We mean, we're the search engine.
The reason I said Google is because last night, just, I just
checked and I searched I got on Google and I searched for Info
Wars. pop right up. I, there's a link to info wars.com and Alex
Jones has been removed from all the major podcasting.
archive.org is maybe a better,
okay. Okay. The, the, there's a layer, there's a layer there
that we represent, which is the layer of, of information
storage, and collection, then the application layer at the
podcast app level. Anybody can create a podcast off the APIs
index data, and anybody can filter out whatever they
exactly. Problem solved. I just don't think it's a problem. It's
just not an issue. Well,
okay. So and I'll just hit it and I'll be done with it. And we
can bring in our guests board members, it. Podcasting is
becoming extremely political, and I don't like it. And it's
unnecessary. And I'm speaking specifically about the podcast
Hall of Fame. I have they always asked me to vote I don't believe
in it. I was very honored when I got you know, the whatever. Pod
father Hall of Fame Award 2015 Quite a while ago, and then
unlike him, okay, I kind of understand why I was asked and
Dave Winer and a couple other people. But so what are all how
does all this other than I just tried to understand what the
criteria is, you know, for an award or a Hall of Fame. And I
looked it up this year, because, of course, I was asked again, I
did not participate in beauty contests. I also don't tell
anyone which app I use over the other. The Hall of Fame
eligibility, the criterion for entry into the Hall of Fame is a
combination of mainstream popularity, being considered a
great podcast or contributor to the industry by their peers, or
or excelling in the medium of podcasting, as well as having
historical significance in a positive manner. Candidates
should have something to offer in all three of the categories
mentioned or be so outstanding in one or two, they deserve
inclusion. And to be eligible, a nominee must have completed five
years since their first involvement in the medium. But
longevity should not be considered a qualification in of
itself. So I'm not I'm not quite sure how that works. But I was
happy to see Dave Slusher. inducted into the Hall of Fame.
I think the only that I knew of some of the other names but Dave
Slusher, who had evil genius Chronicles he definitely was
early in the development of podcasting, he was key he was
there and a key part of the feedback loop. But when I look
at these these criteria, or criterion as they say tell me
why Joe Rogan is not in the podcasting Hall of Fame.
He he is a wonder he is he has created
an entire format that is now replicated by mainstream it is
it is the largest podcast by far he has brought more people to
podcasting than I have. He has spawned more entertaining
podcasts that I can count so let's stop this shit. Politics
should get out and let's just look at it as sport
you can now play in honor of this segment you can now play
the greatest ISO in the history of ISOs
Okay, is it the one I think it is? The only one okay here we go
podcast canceled was that that's that's some that's that's where
I go to the whale. I'm not
revealing. Oh, okay. Oh, well hold on a second since since
we're playing it that way.
Loose. Mm hmm. Yeah,
I got my own well, brother. Let's bring in our guest board
members for today. They are the the two head honchos. The only
men that count over the odd that hated if I said that. They are
the men behind Buzzsprout. Ladies and gentlemen, please
welcome back to the board meeting. Tom Rossi and Kevin
Finn.
Hey guys, thanks for having us.
Hey, guys, good to be here.
Oh my god. You both actually did you tube openers. Great. Hey
guys,
guys, like and subscribe.
Like Button I just got this got this picture of of swinging the
book boardroom door open in Kevin's Kevin's here with a half
eaten donut and a cup of coffee
guys, I'm glad I was, you know, I was wanting to have y'all back
home because there's so much going on and the last time. This
is funny. This is funny how much of a cycle this is the last time
that you guys were on the show. I had COVID Now, Adam has COVID
Hey, wait a minute. And and the the first time we hit you out of
the blue with value for value reveal in the lightning stuff.
Yeah. It was like a deer in the headlights. What the heck just
happened? And then yet just yesterday. Kevin put bus cast on
the value for value with the value blog. All right, finally
boost buzz gas.
Oh, so Right. And so we'll give you a nice healthy slice of
today's value block for the 2.0 show.
Yes, we will. Yeah, you will be in our episode level split.
That's right. It's like Oprah's book club. Only different. Yes.
You'll get some SATs and you'll get some sass.
Yeah. And I've been to school on the value for value payments all
week. And so that was the last to do on my list was to make
sure buzz cast was lightning enabled.
Yeah, we were trying to figure out the problem with you can't
get your list grams out of telegram though. So trying to
figure that out. I thought
that I thought that Satoshi stream that didn't help pioneer
that How come that doesn't work?
It does work because people are using it. I just we're we're
missing something. I don't use the tissue industry myself. So I
don't know. Like I'm not the I'm not the guru there. But I posted
in there to help Kevin. Yeah, I
see the boost coming through. But I can't get the contents of
the message.
I think there's there's some way I thought there was some way you
could trigger the bot to then tell it telegram you the message
with the booster Graham but I could be wrong.
Yeah, he sounds right. I just don't know the right command.
He sent me a message saying, hey, I need you know, I need
this reason. I need my post cast reset so that I can re register
in podcast or wallet. So went in there to reset it. And it was
literally the first record in the database, because that's the
day that we did it. And you Oh, yeah. And so I reset it. And you
know, what I wanted to ask you, you know, what I wanted to say
was, you know, Kevin, did you know that you can email support
at bas cast calm and have them put your value book in there for
you?
She said he sent in the email to support@buzzsprout.com and asked
for the value block to be added. And then it gives us the ticket
gets assigned to me because I'm the one that does. What's
happening here.
I'm losing my mind.
Yeah, just trying to do everything by the book. Well,
the thing is, though, I don't know that you understand what an
accomplishment it is to get Kevin to do that. Because he is
you know, he's the UI UX guy. And for him to make it through
the obstacles means that we've come a long way in setting it up
that he's able to do that. So that's great.
I love it. I'm terrified when somebody says he's the UI UX
guy. And then in the didn't have to think about your disgust as
you went through the podcast wallet calm process, with with
the horrible the UI that i Hey, man,
hey, I live. I've been living with that kind of UX UI for over
a decade. And I love my Dave Jones work.
It is the user it is the user interface equivalent of a beat
up f1 fit 1983 F 150. That is that is exactly what you get.
Hey,
it worked. It worked. I was I was delighted though, after I
set everything up. Then I found like you've got little three
little icons in a row in the middle one I think is edit and I
can edit my value block on the podcast or wallet. Yeah, but I
did. I was telling Dave earlier that I did it after I'd already
manually updated my value block and sent it to Tom. And then I
was annoyed because the podcast index value block that they
wrote out the tags were in a different order than the one I
met. My OCD was triggered big time.
Yeah, that's like a you know, nobody sees that. Kevin. It's
it's all his interview brother.
But I know I know. It's still that way. So I've got
Yeah, so you have done a I mean a ton of stuff you you've got. I
mean, tell me tell me the tags you've got now you obviously
logged obviously, chapters. You are in the GUID like
book Hold on. If I if I can just interrupt for one second. I just
want to thank you guys. I mean, because we're you know, talking
about the first entry in the database and going back and you
know, the first time you gave COVID to us and all that and
just reminisce Listening. And you know, look at where we've
come from not knowing each other, to now having a
conversation like, Man, you've implemented so many tags, where
are you? I mean, I just want to stop and recognize that and
thank you for it.
Well, thank you guys. It's it's been great to see the things
that we've been able to accomplish in such a short
amount of time. I mean, it's, it's benefiting the whole
industry for which we are a part of and so we're really thankful
for the work that you guys have done.
Yeah. Yeah. What do y'all support? Now? Y'all see y'all
have good down.
Yeah, tag wise we do. Transcript locked funding chapters, sound
bytes, location, person, Gu ID, and value. And value is not in
the UI. That's a support request.
That's robot Tom, just send a
robot, like go straight to Tom, which is a valuable thing to
know. Because you can just put in a phony value blog request,
and then just really ask him anything you want.
What's great is I got to test that value system yesterday. And
I think he had an in within about 10 minutes, email. And
within 10 minutes, he wrote back and said, I'll say,
Wow, that's really credible. It's really cool, man.
And so what you've got, you've got an on the chat on the
chapter front. You pray Eve, I think y'all tweaked that at one
point. And now you've got most everything that chapters can do
in there. I mean, not not literally everything. And like,
there's some other stuff that's kind of obscure, like you can
add locations to chapters, but he's got the main ones. And
you've got the you got pictures. Do you have links?
Yes, we have links and pictures. We launched it with just links.
But we came back later and added images. Yeah,
yeah, that's right. Oh, yeah.
How much overhead is that? How much overhead? Did that add for
you with the images? Making? Does it make a dent?
No. I mean, the goal with chapters, right is that it
should reduce overhead, because we're moving out of putting all
that inside of metadata, making it a link in the RSS feed. So
this is a great example of where, you know, it's benefiting
both Buzzsprout in the podcast index for us working together,
because eventually we hope that more people will respect the
chapters tag and stop pulling meta information out of the mp3,
right, which will make everybody's life better.
Yeah. Did y'all see that Google? drop their namespace? Evidently,
evidently, they just abandon it. And Google abandoned
something.
No, that never happened. They say
it was a sunset. It was a beautiful sunset.
It was yes. Like, no, you had to see that. Yeah, I was glad to
see that. I was glad to see in, get your thoughts on it, that,
that they not only abandoned it, which I thought it was. It was
kind of a waste of everybody's time, but that they also took
the documentation off and appear to be saying like, Look, don't
even use it because a lot of times those things get
abandoned. But then the the the information about it stays up
online, like, like Symbian
iOS II?
Yeah. Yeah. As opposed to Apple who took the documentation down
before they stopped. Doing spec is still not published.
I'm still looking for the AppleScript documentation.
Honestly. It was never findable.
Yeah, try it try to Google for the Apple podcast or
recommendations like the best practices. It's it's unfixable?
Yeah, it's completely unfindable. Yeah,
I think the link in their, in their DTD that you put in the
top of every RSS feed for podcasting goes to nowhere. It's
a portal for
the standard for the for a podcast RSS feed includes a link
to a forum for like,
Hey, we're moving it forward.
Yes. Well, this is what I wanted to kind of get into a little bit
because I want I want to really opinion here. The Google
namespace probably should have never existed, so that's fine.
But now what we're left with really is for now obviously,
there's others I understand that there's W core, there's there's
things but as far as main stream act, actively used, that's not
the right word. I'm trying to say. Anyway, as far as important
to podcasting namespaces go right now. You have iTunes and
you have the podcast namespace. I am still have a deeply held
belief that the podcast namespace should be the single,
holistic, fully baked namespace that incorporates everything.
Now, because iTunes belongs to a company, it doesn't belong to
podcasting. Do so that makes me think that what we shouldn't be
doing Long Term is incorporating the iTunes tags into the podcast
namespace tags, so that they have equal representation. So
that some at some point in the future, let's say it's 10 years
from now, some point in the future people can just drop in
the podcast namespace and have all of it and not have to have
a, the the open source podcasting namespace. And this
other namespace is owned and operated, controlled by the
largest company in the world.
Yeah, I mean, it's reminiscent of what happened with HTML on
the web, right, with Internet Explorer, and Microsoft creating
all their own standards. And I think we reached, you know,
Pinnacle garbage with like, ie six, or IE seven. And that is
where the W three C as an organization came around and
said, the web is bigger than Internet Explorer. And there
needs to be some standards, and they started working on, I think
it was first x HTML and Bordado, transitional and for Dotto one.
But then when they came out, they finally put a really good
spec together with html5. And at the same time, Chrome launch on
latched on to that or the Chromium project or whatever.
Anyway, we don't need to go through the whole history of
what happened in the web. But it's, it's, it's similar to what
needs to happen in podcasting. So I would agree with what
you're saying the position that you're taking, and I don't know
that. I mean, who knows what goes on behind the walls at
Cupertino, and what their their motives were when they came out
with a spec. But you can't really point a finger at them
and say, You guys shouldn't be doing this when the community
when podcasting as a whole hasn't offered an alternative.
Yeah. And so I think that is the direction that we need to move.
And then when we get to that point, then we can, you know,
start to point the finger to him and say, Hey, we really don't
need you guys providing your own namespace anymore. This one
covers everything that you have, and more so and you can support
as much or as little as you want.
Can it can ask the question. So does this mean that we will
replicate tags that are in the iTunes namespace that will
replicate them in the podcast namespace? does that also mean
it'll have the iTunes colon block? I mean, will it have
iTunes in there? It won't have that.
No, it will just be like, like, for instance, in the podcast
namespace, there is no, there is no block tag. There is no
podcast colon block, right? Yet. There is a proposal for one. The
iTunes does have iTunes colon block. So we would just when we
implement podcast colon block, that could be a direct
replacement for iTunes block. And we would do that we would
just go through and say, you know, okay, here's this, this
tag sheets.
And here's, here's my prediction. Google saw that
Google knows what we're doing. They dropped it, they gave up
they're fine. I think they're fine. If they do anything,
they'll use the podcast namespace. I think Apple
capitulated. It, you know, a lot of things happened in tandem, I
had a conversation with the Oh, my God, I forgot his name
already. Games, bugs, yeah, bugs. And I said, You're crazy.
And he said, That's a great way to start a conversation.
And of course, they said what you do, and it's crazy, don't do
that. And so they went all in on the subscriptions because I
thought that was going to be the big play against Spotify. For
all intents and purposes, I think that's failed, but they
turned around screwed up what they were doing kind of okay.
And I think that they would probably die. Dave, you and I
spoke about it. I think they welcome the fact that podcasting
was going to be safe over there were the nut jobs. So they could
go and drop it. They dropped it in there doing of course they
put someone on to fix the problems. I don't know if
they're all fixed right now. I don't think they I really don't
think they would mind dropping it all together and saying you
know what, use this we don't want to maintain it. It's just
an it's just an annoying add on for us at this point. And but
I'm so confident that I love making the annual bet with James
Cridland, I will keep winning money from him. They will never
release iTunes or podcast app on on Windows or Android. I mean,
because they they show no support for it. They don't care
for for the four of four of the namespace and
404 of the namespace
Yes, yes.
Seriously, I I think that's a great idea. I mean, I was a
little concerned because I didn't want any Apple glue in
the in the namespace. But if if we're just replicating, you
know, the tags that we don't have or work a little
differently. Yeah, this seems like a great drop in
replacement, said he very expertly.
Yeah, and I think they've already demonstrated that
they're willing to do it like they have moved away from a few
of the iTunes proprietary tags. I used to have a tag. That was
no description. call an iTunes or something iTunes go in
description whichever direction it was. But in their latest
documentation in the latest release of their app, now
they're just reading the podcast documentation or not
documentation description.
Can I ask you guys did you do you see a lot of people doing
private stuff at the subscription stuff at Apple? I
mean, just not necessarily your clients Makino is a real uptake
on that. I mean, I'm, I'm just saying I don't see it. But
no, we don't see it either. Yeah, a few of our bigger
podcasts are doing it. It's still a lot of hurdles to jump
through to just be able to monetize one subset of your
audience. Course
da. Yeah,
dude, I don't think just from you know, our chats in the past
and stuff. Tom, I don't. I don't think y'all really have a taste
for the whole private feed subscription model. Or at least
if you do, it's not, it doesn't seem like it's something that
you're, you know, aggressive about.
Yeah, it's definitely not something that we're aggressive
about, because we think it is just one way, right? It's just
one way for a podcaster to potentially control the way that
they want their their podcast to be consumed right through a
subscription. And that's how they're gonna monetize it or for
whatever reason, but it's not the end all be all. It's not.
It's not the only way. And I think that's, that's kind of our
position on it.
Yeah, I like, you know, um, I don't know if you guys have ever
listened to the dithering podcast with John Gruber. And
no, I haven't No, no. Okay. Well,
they do a I mean, it's subscription only, right. So
they've got an episode that they put out as a, you know, a
freebie teaser. And then they just if you want to listen to
their podcast, you pay him $5 a month, and you get three
episodes every week, 15 minutes an episode, and I subscribed
paying $5 A month because for me, it's worth that I enjoy that
show. But the that's that's one subscription model and it works
for them. And it works for me as listener, but the idea that
somebody would do a regular show, and then do premium or
special episodes and put that behind the paywall to me doesn't
make any sense. Why are you going to take your absolute best
stuff and hide that from anybody who's not willing to pay you?
Yeah, yeah, this is the best stuff. And this is the stuff
worth paying for. Go ahead and put that out there. And so
people can find you discover you find value in what you're doing,
and then give them the ability to pay.
And that that's like what you were talking about. Kevin, you
talked about this on buzz cast, maybe a couple weeks ago, but
just talking about, that's great for somebody who has a following
Sam Harris as a podcast that I listened to as well. And he has
a subscription model where he'll have a limited episode that's
available to the public. But if you want to hear the whole
thing, you've got to go subscribe, same thing. But if
you've got a following like Sam Harris, or the dithering
podcast, then you can do that. But what about the guy who's
building the following, if the only offer for him for for being
able to monetize his podcast is to grow a massive following, and
then turn it all off to turn it into a subscription model? It
just, it's just not gonna work for everybody. There's no stop.
A lot of people from being able to get into podcast is nothing
like starting a podcast telling a few buddies, and then within
five minutes of publishing your episode. There's nothing like
that feeling. Yeah, there's nothing like it, you get those
Satoshis coming in, be like you just have I'm happy.
When we, when we first launched a bus route, I remember, it
would send us an email Buzzsprout would actually send
Kevin and I an email on time someone published an episode.
And he thought it was so awesome. Because we made it so
easy. Anybody could just take a recording, they didn't have to
know anything about mp3. They'd have to know anything about
encoding, they could just take any audio recording and release
a podcast. And we were so excited. We would get an email
so that we could go in and listen and see you know what's
out there. Yeah. And it's just it's just crazy. Like you said,
just how how easy it is for someone right now to be able to
get with their buddies record something and get it out there
to the world in no time.
Well, I was thinking about the sort of the pay wall type deal
because I've thought about this in the past and we've come up
with with some ideas and then actually Mike over at Red Circle
posted on the on the master on the other day about this thing
called pod pass that I'd never heard of it. If you
really are that you are really the slot of the hosting
companies, aren't you? You lay down with everybody, man. Yeah,
always talking to him.
And I was like, I've never even heard of this thing. It's like
this fully fleshed out thing from those radio public, I
think. Anyways, this fully fleshed out way for like, apps
to pass through a subscription thing and get a token back. And
so there's been all these all these concepts around how to do
open subscriptions where you don't have to have like a
separate private feed and all this jazz. And so I keep
bouncing back and forth between is that really like I don't, I
don't know whether that's a really valuable use of time
because just just like you said, Kevin, I don't Just the whole
notion that you're going to take, you're going to make your
content, not listen to people, by most people. I mean, I get
it, I understand the monetization of that, of that. I
mean, I get I understand the concept clearly. But I don't
know, it's just a little weird. And I'm wondering if it's if
it's even worth spending time on to come up with an open source,
like an open standard for paywalls?
Isn't there already something like that? Or there was
something that was supposed to do that for? like Spotify is
open version
open access? Yeah, we've got all these ideas. Here's the other
thing that bothers
me. But it's your job to do that.
So that's what I'm not sure that it's, it has that has that model
shown that it's sustainable for enough percentage of podcast is
worth spending all the time and effort to do?
Yeah, I mean, my recommendation to our customers has always been
that you it's not until you get to a pretty big like until your
following is pretty big. The challenge with subscriptions is
that you're doing the same amount of work to create this
alternative content, premium content, bonus episodes,
whatever it is that you decide to do, whether you have one
subscriber or you have 50,000. And so if it takes an extra 10
or 15 hours of your week to go ahead and create this content,
are you doing it for $5? For that one person? Are you doing
it for $50,000? For you know, all of them? And so if you have,
if you're huge, then maybe it makes sense for you to explore
something like that. But the majority of podcasters are not
huge. It's not
it's not a starter, starter kit type idea.
That's right.
It's almost like a lid right? As soon as you put a subscription.
As soon as you put a paywall in front of your podcast, you just
put a lid on your growth, right? It's not going to grow beyond
probably where you are, unless you've got some other avenue of
getting people to find out who you are and be interested.
Well, what do you think is interesting is if you solve the
problem for the smaller podcaster, and you solve it in a
way that's scalable, then what you have is a solution for
everybody.
Right? Yes, yes, yeah. And that's what gets us
excited. So I think what subscriptions today, what they
look like is they solved it for the big person, but it doesn't
scale down. But if we do a good job of scaling it, you know,
creating a solution for the small person, I think there's a
better chance that that scales up.
Yeah, cuz you can start if you find the like, that's the value
value as a solution for I mean, you can, there is no barrier,
you just throw it out there. And then as you scale up bigger and
bigger, it just continues to work. I mean, like the the you
don't have to change models, depending on your size. And you
have to do that for advertising revenue to you can't advertise.
I mean, nobody's gonna be interested in advertiser buying
buy ads on a on a show this got 10 listeners, but but you can,
if you have, if you have 10 listeners, and all 10 of those
listeners are willing to give you a value for value, then you
can do that. There's no like, Yeah, I think that's right.
Ultimately, the solution to that, you know, has to be
scalable. Yeah.
You think about the podcaster. And you think about the
listener, neither one of them want the advertisements, right?
The podcaster, doesn't want that he wants the revenue. He wants
to be able to monetize this podcast, but he doesn't want the
advertisement in the middle of his podcast. And the listener
doesn't want that. It's just the monetization strategy that that
they're aware of. Right. And so this idea that if we can find a
monetization strategy that works that doesn't involve
advertising, I mean, it could, but it doesn't have to involve
advertising, but it's something that can scale up with the
podcast. That's, that's the kind of thing that Buzzsprout would
be interested in, because that's what we care about.
That is the worst. The worst aspect of this to me of the
paywall aspect is what I saw the other day. And I mean, you see
this a lot. But I was, I don't know how I ended up on Mamma Mia
his website. I was on their website and
have a musical.
No, not that one. The Australian podcast Oh, oh host or
publishing company or whatever they're in. They have it said,
you can listen to our podcast. But then if you want to, if you
want to get our bonus content, you have to subscribe. And
that's like these extra little small episodes that they put out
in debt. That was like that seems completely backwards to
me. Because it implies that your base product podcast isn't worth
anything in the only thing that you're going to like we want you
to pay so that you can get this this other stuff like it tells
the world it signals to the world that our actual podcast
that everybody listens to isn't very valuable. Am I wrong?
No you're not you're spot on and and all of this is book Back to
my civility when people really really love a product and
they're asked they will support it. It's the same ask for
someone to subscribe to a secret superduper feed and pay $5 A
month extra as it is to say, hey, set up a recurring PayPal
now it's it's it's it's an old it's it's bringing the old
thinking into the new world of paywall I personally, you know,
I think the interruptive advertising model is in its last
days, this is what streaming has streaming television and movies
has taught us everything and everything that is interruptive
advertising is just going down. You know, is it still a long
road for radio to go away, etc. But I think that we're seeing
that is not the best model. And the with, with asking people to
support you, whether it's subscription or value for value,
or bringing food to your door, that can be done with one
listener, you don't need and this is another thing, I just
want to press, the concept of everyone having to I got to grow
my show, I have to grow my show, my show has to grow. It's not
growing. It's not a fucking chia pet. It's so we I think we lose
sight of that often when we're talking about these things.
People just want to podcast for a whole bunch of reasons. And a
lot of them fail. And that's what anchor is all about.
Because there was no real professional. Like, hey, here's
here's a real setup. And you know, it's not just some stupid
app, you've got education, you're the the here, here is
sports, go ahead and create your own. You know, everything else
to me is just ancillary. And should you know, there's enough
solutions out there, I don't think it has to be a technical
thing. Yeah, you know,
you mentioned a few minutes ago, Adam, like the feeling that you
get as a podcaster, when you get that first payment, right,
somebody is listening to my podcast, and I get the first
payment. That is an amazing feeling. And then Tom mentioned
when we launched Buzzsprout, the amazing feeling that we would
get as a platform helping somebody push that content out
to the world. And then, you know, just this week, I
experienced the third side of that, which is as a listener, I
set up a listening app, and I funded it. I funded the wall in
the app. And I started listening to podcasts, and I set up my
streaming sets to the podcaster. And I'm getting dopamine hits,
as I'm listening to the podcast, knowing that I'm supporting the
person who I'm listening to. Yes, yes, like that. You're so
good. And when they say something great that I agree
with you boost the boost button. And I mean, that's, that is so
fun. I'm listening more podcasts this week than I have, you know,
in the past two years, because I'm so excited to be able to
send money directly to the person who I'm listening to your
entertainment. Poverty. Yeah. But yes, giving me something
they're educating me or they're entertaining me or whatever it's
doing for me. Now I can give back like, whatever I'm, I'm
binge watching Yellowstone right now. Right? And oh, I just
started that. Yeah. So it's been great. Fine. I'm watching
through the peacock and somebody, NBC is getting rich,
fantastic. But if I if I knew when I was watching that show, I
could get super excited that Kevin Costner just you know,
often another bad guy boost straight to costume
costume with love it.
That's what that's the opportunity we have in
podcasting. There's no other medium where you can do that
right now.
That so I sent my one of my favorite podcasts is causality.
John Cage's podcast. And so he puts out it's one of these
podcasts where he, he just does this deep dive research into a
natural disasters are not a natural, I'm sorry, a an
engineering disaster. And then, however long it takes them to
research, that's how long it's gonna take, and you're just
gonna have to wait. And so then he puts the show out. And it may
take two months, or it may take six months. I don't know. But
it's gonna it's gonna be good. Is every time one of those lands
in my podcast app? I'm like, yes, I've been you know, a want
this because, you know, it's gonna be an hour of just really
good content. And so he released his episode a couple days ago.
Listen to it last night. I sent him 50,000 SATs, which is
roughly 20 bucks in a boost and put in put a booster gram
message in there. And it felt so good. It just like you're
talking about Kevin, it feels so good to know that within two
seconds, he's gonna see he's gonna hear pew pew and he's
gonna see the 50,000 SATs and he's gonna read the message. And
he did. He responded to me on Mastodon about 20 minutes later
and he said, Thank you so much for the SATs, Boo Boo. It's just
that we you know, you can start that. But I mean, that's that's
what that's what it's about. It feels so much better than it's
like. Like Tom said, everybody. Everybody involved hates the
advertising. So isn't it great if we can take it out and make
it go away? Yeah. Anyway,
well also then, then you the work you're doing or the fun
you're having, or whatever you're sharing becomes something
that you're doing for the people on the other end, not for the
numbers for advertising. This is what pisses me off. And that's
all all the whole podcast is all advertising. Oh, how big had it?
Is it? Good?
Seriously, it squashes a lot of podcasters. I mean, one of this,
oh, I'm
too late. I can't get in there. The market saturated?
Yeah. Or they're looking at their numbers. And they're
comparing their numbers. I'm no good. I'm no good. Because my
numbers don't compare to somebody else's like, Well, you
didn't get into podcasting for the numbers. I'm assuming that
there was something you were passionate about. But I wanted
to talk like this, get a following. But listen
to what everyone's talking about growing your audience growing
your podcast. That is that is the hosting companies inherent
message. Everyone's
huh. I don't know if
you've said this at least eight times on this show alone.
Growing the audience building your audience. I'm not I'm not
saying it's wrong. I'm just saying that is a general, it's
like media, we still consider it to be media.
So what a dopamine hit, knowing that we have a large audience
there, we get a dopamine hit with a number change.
Yeah, there's no there's nothing wrong with with having a big
audience. It's just that's not your measurement of success.
It is I don't I want less less audience people unsubscribe now.
But that's what I try. You know, I get to speak at conferences
and stuff. And I usually talk about stats, because it's
something that I know a lot technically about, but I also
love to encourage people with, don't look at your stats, you
just That's not why you got into podcasting. That's not how you
measure success. It's some people that's the only
measurement that they have for success. And that's just not
that's just not right.
Well, one day, it may even be heli pad is going to show me a
graph. And the stats will be highly interesting, because it
will tell me, when people are listening, when they're
boosting. It'll give me an average of how many sets per
minute. These are things. These are statistics that I find
highly interesting. I'd like to know when people drop off, I'd
like to know what parts people liked. I think these are
statistics that focus on the core. This is something we've
never had in I've been subjected to Nielsen ratings Arbitron
ratings, Dutch Government rating systems, and it's horrible. And
the reason why it's the most depressing is because guaranteed
every single time and I've done television shows with, you know,
with 100 people working on it. 12 cameras, and we did a live
show, and this was such a kick ass. Everyone's like, holy, I'm
getting goosebumps just talking about it. Such a great show.
Alright, everybody guaranteed the next day, crap ratings. It's
all demotivating or it's motivating for the wrong
reasons. And it doesn't improve the actual quality of the work
that way. In fact, it makes it worse over time. That's how we
got to 20 minutes of commercials on am radio per hour.
Yeah, yes, like five minutes of content and the 12 minutes of
commercials. It's all radios almost unlistenable now, it's
yeah, it's so bad.
Boy, you mentioned streaming. I can't I can't watch TV anymore.
Because if I travel somewhere, I've got a watch on my laptop. I
just can't watch live
TV. So why would we treat podcasting any differently?
Well, because we have a fast forward button. Yeah. Okay.
Well, the ad loads going up to I mean, it's just it's it's just
such
a, like a viral load and ad load viral. Heavy ad load.
On the I mean, going back to some tech stuff, what,
specifically on the on the block tag? Tom, what is your feeling
about whether or not the iTunes block tag and I don't know if
y'all use it on your platform at all, but they, they, we we
started honoring the iTunes block tag when we're ingesting
feeds at the beginning and then in the US started and then I
disabled that because you're the iTunes blogtagged. You have the
Google block tag. And I'm like, Okay, what, I don't know what's
what and the documentation for the iTunes block tag says that
if you put this in here, then Apple will not index the feed.
So of course, they're gonna say that and I'm gonna say anything
else. But then there's other hosting companies that seem to
treat it as a general universal block tag that says I don't want
to show up anywhere. What? What's your opinion on that? And
do you think that the podcast block tag version should be more
granular that just says that that allows you to say, Okay, I
want this this in this directory to be able to index it, but not
but nowhere else.
So we don't use the iTunes block at all. Okay?
Well, we do, but we don't use it. So with Apple, you have the
ability to put your podcast in or not like that, they're not
going to discover it, right, you have to go through a process and
submit to them. So the only time that we use the block tag is
when somebody says they want out of Apple. And, like, they
struggle to, like remember their their Apple ID login or
something, and they can't get into the UI anymore to get
themselves out. So we can manually wrap it in there. And
the other time we use it is if we say like blocked from all
search engines, then we don't use the apple block, we used to
use the Google block, which I guess they don't respect
anymore, that we might need to change that code. But if they
don't want their podcast discovered, like if you want to
go to Google and just type in the name of their podcast, and
they don't want to show up in the search results, we use the
block tag in the RSS feed, we also, you know, shut off their
Buzzsprout public page and we put a noindex nofollow. So
hopefully search engines respect that and don't pick it up. But
that's been our only use for those two tags,
we'll see that that actually makes it that actually makes it
a little bit more confusing. Because there it may see that,
that's where I can't, I don't know where to fall down. Because
I iTunes block tag really, really feels like an apple only
thing. But I know for a fact that that a lot of people are
using it as a general indicator. And, and I just, I think this is
a, this is a perfect example of something that needs to be in
the podcast namespace and not part of iTunes. Because we can
put the pot, we can make a podcast blog tag, and say this
in make it better, make it work more granular and make it make a
better. I just think we make a better tag.
Right? And there's a model for this. There's the robot dot txt
file model. Yeah, yeah, you can say, you know, maybe block is
the wrong way to think about it. Maybe it's like, what do we
allow? And reverse our verse to thinking? Yeah, and so I would
think that we'd approach it from allow all which means any
directory that comes upon this RSS feed, you find that you want
to index it, have at it, or we get specific. And we say, you
know, we want to be in this, this, this, this and this, and
we're specific. And then we might say, you know, disallow,
we're specifically saying we do not want to be in Spotify. So
Spotify bot comes upon this feed, you do not have permission
to call Yeah,
like a Spotify is gonna honor that. Well, do they?
I don't know. I mean, they they don't now.
Yeah. Now, it's one of the one of our most frequent support
requests is being removed from Spotify. If they supported a
block tag, it would actually reduce support on both sides.
Yeah. Because there's not an easy way for us through the API
to remove a show. We have to email him right now. We should
so it would be nice to have an allow or disallow Island. I
would love
to try that. Because the no agenda show feed keeps getting
put back on the Spotify. It's all pirated, of course. So it
would be interesting to try it with the with iTunes block tag.
I don't think I don't think I don't think they they honor it.
We haven't adopted any tags, I really haven't engaged much on
any of the tags that involve the name. Like it just it seems like
it's a hard tag to build, right? Because Spotify gets bought out
by stuck ease and they change their name to duckies listener
app. Like I just don't like seeing that in the spec.
Whenever there's names of apps and stuff like that, but I don't
know what that's like a slug list type thing. Yeah, that slug
list, I push back on it all the time because I just hate the
idea of codifying the name of a product knowing that these
products change names. I mean, we already see with iTunes,
Apple has moved straight away from iTunes, they you know, got
get us whenever we use iTunes anywhere the best
marketing company in the world couldn't out market out of that.
Yeah,
yeah. And so that's, that's my challenge. Whenever I look at
the tags that involve those, those app slugs, but it doesn't
mean that it doesn't. I like the way Kevin said about a robot
robot txt file, maybe there's some type of reference file that
we can go to where we use domain names or something that is, um,
you know, more objective, not not a slug list that we create.
Like, yeah, like that. We need to do that. I'm going to get
back on on that for Phase Five, because I think it's, it's it's
important to come up a couple of times lately and it's kind of
been an annoyance. And it's led to this to this very blatant,
or, excuse me, very obvious shortfall here. So we need to we
need to fix that.
Yeah, we could definitely work on that. That's a great tag to
work on because Just non breaking, it's not gonna break
anything for us to put that out there. Um, and so that's
definitely something we could work together.
Yeah. Okay, cool. That as far as the the other thing that the bus
route was super instrumental in at the very beginning was
piping, and I was just just some numbers here 263,941 feeds now
are deprioritized because of pod pain. So we do not meet D
prioritizing, meaning we are not actively pulling them anymore.
We're just getting pod pain signals and that's how we know.
So that's an eighth of the of the universe. It's an eight to
the universe. It's pretty good. It's not bad out of the gate for
some wonky crap Brian put together. Just kidding. It's
obviously a runaway success.
That's gonna be the subtitle of Brian's autobiography. Brian,
when he's dead, London, wonky, wonky crap. And
he's basically running a money changing machine, isn't he? I
don't know what he's doing. I love him for it. Because he's
Adam, if Adam could code
like, what have you done? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. 263,941 phase.
That's a lot. That is a lot of stuff that
we internet. Thank you. Hey, the internet. Thanks. We
need we need to put a number out we need to put a carbon number
on it. Come on boys, we need to calculate can we do number? Can
we Yeah, can we do like a back of the envelope? Well, you have
the data, right? You have some of
it, I can tell you how much we pay per gigabyte of bandwidth.
And we get back into how many gigabytes typical RSS feed back
into Number
Have you also have to take in the electricity. That's I want
to get it all the way to the climate change.
I wanted the issue to be measured in cow farts, you know?
Yes.
Yes. Yes. Excellent, Dave.
And the debt it was so and we have after the latest round of
purging, we have 700 737,946 Dead feet now wanted to say the
difference between dead and deprioritize because that was
confusion on the mastodon today with dead means the feed is is
is not a quality listable thing. So like, we talked about this
before, when we market feed dead, it disappears. It's like
it doesn't even exist anymore. And that's because it's either a
duplicate of some other legitimate feed, or it's just
complete garbage. So meaning it has one episode that's 15
seconds long of somebody saying poop. So that that's what that
is the D prioritization happens when? And this was to answer
Steven bass question today. D prioritizing means that we set
the the aggregator priority for that feed to negative one,
meaning don't poll it. That happens based on the host. So
anything, anything from bus from feeds, buzzsprout.com is is all
automatically set upon ingestion to a negative one priority so
that we don't pull it. It's not that we saw it pod ping once and
then D prioritized. It. That's not how it works. It's based
only on people that we know, on hosting company URLs that we
know are pod ping enablers that are enabled.
I love that to Steven B's. Sovereign feeds. Has a pod ping
thing in there. Have you seen that? Yeah, yeah, we set him up.
Yeah. But it's super cool. Because in order so you publish
your feed, and then you have to solve a puzzle, which is like
nine plus four plus two. And then it pings it. Yeah, I guess
that's so it can't be spammed or something. You have to you have
to come up with a you have to answer the CAPTCHA. Abuse. Yeah.
But it's really cool. It works.
Well, one thing Steven has been looking for, and I don't know if
you can speak to this, Tom, is he's been, you know, he's
created this thing called Sovereign phase where it's like
a, it's a fee generator, where you can host a create your own
your own feed, and but he, he needs he needs a host on the
backend to be able to, like, integrate with so that his his
software can sort of be a third party and use a host API to
upload the audio and save the feed somewhere. Is that
something that because does breast bass API allow that or?
No,
no. I mean, you could, you could do it, but you'd be paying for
something that you wouldn't be using because you're gonna pay
for the hosting. Yeah,
I don't think No, I don't think the paying is the part is the
problem. I think he just needs the tech you know,
Yeah, I mean, our API set up so that you can push episodes to us
through the API. And then you can get back a URL for those.
And if he doesn't want to use our feed, he wants to generate
his own feed. You could do that.
Yeah, that's I think that's really what it's about. It's not
about
that. Yeah. Anybody could do that with the engine.
But then, and he can also publish the feed to your
hosting.
No, we wouldn't. We just host right, we'd host our feed, which
he wouldn't want.
Right? Yeah. Right. That's the problem. Yeah. He's
trying to create the RSS. And then ice
API is trying to find a partner who's already established who
can process customers, I guess. I guess, in a way, like we're
the WordPress plugin with the whatever that ties into, to tie
into blueberry, like a power press type power. Yeah. And so
that that kind of access he's looking for?
Yeah, we're just like, I'm gonna give you because he, he wants to
be able to do custom stuff in the feed. So he just wants to
say, hey, here's the here's the feed, can you can you publish
this for hosted for me? And then I'm just gonna give it to you
fully formed? And then sound like he'll have that? No, no,
but I mean, I don't know what he feels about Amazon or something.
But um, yeah. So
for Dropbox, even Dropbox has a pretty sophisticated API, I saw
some people are building
drop boxes. And that's a very interesting idea to do it that
way. I've seen a lot of interesting projects work
through Dropbox. Yeah. I
don't know, if they support byte range requests and stuff. I
don't know if they'd be fully podcasting compatible. But like
Amazon CloudFront, does.
That's true. What? What have we missed? I mean, like, you know,
y'all, you've been here since the beginning, what? What is, is
there? Is there a blind spot in the, in the namespace or the,
the Poquoson, 2.0 thing that we're trying to do that we're
just not seeing? I think
we touched on the big ones. I like the idea of making sure
that we have a compatible tag for all of the iTunes tags.
But in 10 years, we shouldn't expect to see iTunes anywhere in
our RSS feeds. Right. And we talked about that, Dave, early
on, when we were doing the namespace, we were saying, Hey,
don't go propose all the iTunes tags, like, we know that that's
something that we want to do. But let's not start there. Like,
that's not gonna, that's not going to create innovation. It
is something that at some point we should do. But it's
essentially going to just increase the size of our RSS
feeds, it could create more work for our podcasting apps. But at
some point, we're going to have to swallow it, we're going to
have to do that.
Right. I like the idea of making sure we're cleaning out the
legacy namespaces. Like there's no no more reason to carry them
forward.
Have you guys been following the cross app comments? Development?
Yeah, that's something that I'm pretty excited about. I've
talked with Dave about
it, he activity pub. So there's been a lot of,
I got to stop again, I got to stop again. Holy crap. It's like
a beautiful movie. I'm watching one that's in Korean. So I don't
understand what they're saying. But I like all the actors,
they're really interesting. I like how they interact. And I
think I see what's going to happen. So I'm very, very
pleased, it's really exciting to watch
that activity pub stuff is, has taken a really big leap over the
last really two to three weeks, when people have gotten in there
rolled their sleeves up, gotten dirty with with publishing their
research. Because this stuff, you can you can conceptualize
how it works. But when you actually get to write code, you
really need more than just a vision, or an or a conceptual
framework, you need actual nuts and bolts details of the way the
protocol functions. And the difficult reality with activity
Pub is that they don't, the implementations in the real
world of it don't all operate the same way. And you find that
out pretty quick when you start poking around at the API's
within Mastodon and Roma in these different these different
platforms. So the new work that that John Spurlock has done and
then the research recently, by Gail, May, they they really took
the framework that Alex gates kind of visualized, and in and
just did a bunch of research and published it in document form.
So it's, and then John at created some apps and NPM
modules for fleshing it out to make it easier for the apps to
pick up and run with and they're just going through that funnel
or not, I'm not gonna say final but they're going through that
heartache right now of trying to get this some some baseline MVP
type software up and running. So I think I think within the next
I really think within the next couple of months to three months
we're going to have something that is like usable where you
can say okay, go do this, and your app will show calm.
Will it take involvement from hosting companies or Can it or
should it?
Well see, that's the question really, I think I think it
really should to be,
well think of it think of it this way. But Buzzsprout when
when we are able to pull that into our platform, we host every
one of our podcasts as website. So we'll be able to launch the
comments on all of their websites when we do them. So I
think it'll be it's definitely something that we're talking
about, and it's something that I think would really benefit our
podcasters
it's already pretty sexy though, man when when I publish every
show I do now at least he has a comment thread. And and Dave,
you posted a screenshot Oh, there it is on pod verse and
like, that's already pretty cool. Just to see that
happening.
Have you have you seen that? Have you guys seen that in
action? I have not. I'm so if you go if you go to pod verse,
and then just, I mean, if you just go to pod verse.fm and look
and search for podcasting 2.0 and then go in then just click
on Like when the most recent episodes, you'll see the
activity pub comments there. So every time somebody, every time
we post a show a post an episode, I do a post on podcast,
index dot social, and I just say the name of the episode, or the
episode number, and this is the comments thread. And then Adam
takes the URL for that activity pub post, and puts it into the
social interact tag in the fit in our feed. And then
immediately pod verse and pod friend to put I think Martin has
disabled it for now. He's going to bring it back because he's
recoding. And I believe Oh, it's working on the web version.
Okay, cool. Well, that the pod friend and pod verse, both show
accont the all those comments in there. So if if you go and reply
to it on podcast, index, social, social or any other Mastodon
instance, or Pleroma, it will show up in pod verse
automatically as a reply.
And what's really trippy is that because I do the same thing I do
the comment thread. Before we record it's like the comments
are from the future. The minute the episode is there, like shit,
there's already comments on this thing.
Yeah. It's it's fully formed, but it's like a it's like that.
That's every night live. Where Will Ferrell was born as an
affiliate as an adult. Like,
yeah, but it also it makes it feel like that episodes alive
already. Like, okay, oh, that's just people commenting. Yeah,
yeah,
it's cuz psychological
psychologically. Very interesting.
Yeah. And it's a great way to interact. One of the things
about podcasting, that's, that's awesome is you feel this
connection with the podcaster. And so this is yet another way
to connect with the podcaster.
Yeah, it would be so how cool is it to have the Buzzsprout
podcast page for that podcast? With all these comments? And
then you know that it's going to show up the exact same way in
every single app. Right? That's cool. Yeah, I think we're gonna
knock behind some wall, right? It's not behind some wall where
I have to download an app to be able to see the comments if I'm
a podcaster. I don't have to go, you know, download all these
different apps to go see what people are saying about my
podcast. Yeah. Which
has always been the default for some stupid reason. Yeah, and
the most common place right now for podcast. reviews and
recommendations to come through is Apple podcasts. And there's
it's such a terrible broken system. I don't know, the full
like delay or process that, like vetting process that those
things go through before they get published. But it is a very
common support request for us get that says, you know, I just
launched my podcast, my you know, my friend told me, they
listened to it, and then left me writing a review. It's not
showing up and yeah, you got to give it a week. Like it's just
so
Yeah, whenever we say comments, the first thing that people
always say, Well, we have ratings and reviews, that's what
everyone jumps up and says, and I was thinking about it, just
like the at the item level. Can we also have a channel level
thread, which then by default becomes just like every other
review thread?
I don't see why not.
I mean, though, isn't that exactly what a review is? It's a
thread of people's and Okay, I think you can I don't know this.
There's no maybe not a star rating thing Viet in activity
pub. But it seems like that's a channel level and element. And
it's just a whole list of people say and I love it. I hate it.
That's what it is reviews. Yep.
Not it doesn't seem very special to me. And it can show up
everywhere.
Yes. And that can be specified as the the channel level which
any app could then translate to these reviews. Yeah. solves.
Okay. Let's be great, guys. Yeah.
We have our work cut out for us.
I wanted to follow up on something. I don't think I did
this on the last day. Didn't we have a Because because you
brought it up on the show, someone sent a real nasty email
to you about their podcast not being listed properly
on the index is a bad redirect. Yeah.
Did you see that? I, I went back at him? And he replied,
yeah. And he was any apologize,
I think I think I should, because he was really, really
rude about you stupid company, you should be paying me to do
it. And wow, no, no, great. But what's interesting is I've
learned over time that when people do this, there's
something else going on. So when I said, Hey, man, you know, I
don't think you understand we're doing. And I just I think,
because we did that after read his apology, I would like to
apologize for my last email to you and your company, I was
wrong for sending such an email like that. I was angry at all
the podcast directories like Google, Apple, and so on. So I
lumped everyone together. What was happening with the other
companies, they had my show and a new show on their platform
related to duplicate show and they deleted the wrong one. I'm
still new at podcasting. I'm only going into my second year
and stuff makes me worried of what's happening. Again, I'm
sorry, for my last email, shouldn't have lumped your
company without directories. hope you can forgive me. Of
course, we forgive him. But it tells you something. It tells
you something. Those guys are messed up. And and I don't think
they're doing anything about it.
Yes, we see that in our support. Yeah.
This sounds like a support email that you guys would receive.
Exactly.
We our support team is incredible. And they are way
more patient than I am. Right. Like I would I wouldn't respond
well to you.
You're fired as a customer? Yeah, no,
I've done it. And so I think it's hard to get in their mind
that they're just so frustrated, because they just assume you're
like Google, they're just screaming into the wind,
nobody's listening, right? Like, like Kevin was talking about
when they write into Buzzsprout. And they say, you know, somebody
told me, they left a review, and it's still not showing, they
write in a bus problem, because we write back to them. They
don't hear back, they just find themselves, you know, screaming
into the wind.
And they don't understand. They don't understand all the crap
that you have to deal with like a like Alberto over RSS comm. He
had to write an entire machine learning system to get rid of
some of this one bot that kept signing up for free podcast and
putting like porn images in it over and over and over. Like,
there's so much garbage that you have to get the hosting company
and the directories are the filter for Yeah, like it's, it's
insane.
Which is why we should have we should attack. Anchor, we need
to enter it, we need to enter it. We need to hoist the Jolly
Roger. I got it. I got a note from someone the other day and
he said because he said I'd really want to get on
podcasting. 2.0 Because I start off with anchor. And it's like
it's come there's no support. There's nothing happening is
really weird that place over there. Just but then once I got
some downloads, all of a sudden Spotify contacted me. Yeah, so
that's what they're using it for. They're just looking at
anything that pops a little bit above the needle, and then they
contact you. Oh, okay. It's a farm team. It's I think it's not
a farm. It's more like a Petri dish of bacteria.
Is the is the coop incubator. Exactly.
Yeah. It's fine. No, it's not far from a fun product that was
created to
respect all
of our competitors
Shall we thanks some people you guys want to hang around for
this and listen to some booster grams and stuff.
Sure. They want to add Kevin want the he must hang around for
this because he's now the owner of a value for value enabled
show and he needs to be instructed on how the process
works.
Got it? Ah, yes. Okay, so he's taking my attention here. You're
going
to do a live cast, you'll be able to talk about Buddha
Gramsci or Siva, yes, yes.
This podcast, as you may have figured out his value for value,
which means the only way it continues and it represents of
course, the work of podcasting 2.0. In general, all the
servers, the liquidity on the node, is everything is financed
through the support of the people who find any value in it
that can be developers, it's often listeners, it's just
people who want things to want to see things succeed. And you
can support us in a number of ways. A great way still still
valid as you fill out fun coupons. If you go to podcast
index.org. Go down to the bottom there's a red donate button, you
can support us through Pay Pal and all the options they have or
of course, through a modern podcast app at new podcast apps
comm where you can stream SATs to as value for value in real
time. It's a dopamine circuit that we've created. I've just
learned where the because of the the communications going back
and forth, everyone gets a little dopamine hit on each
circle of it. And again, a new podcast saps.com So let's thank
some of our let's thank all of our supporters for this week
Dave.
We have a grand total of one PayPal donation this week, so is
that I think we met during that sad
puppy is what happened.
Evidently we did some okay
this is a this is another important value for value moment
where you just have to say it's not enough is that what you're
saying?
Yes, lick your pencil lead. Kevin. Good note this down when
when people do not donate enough sad must put chapter art of
really sad things and
sad puppies works really well.
Yes, children was sad looks on their faces. Yeah,
yeah. Yeah. Preferably holding a shoe.
Yeah. So it I think I have a indicate like as like an
indication of why then and I think Ben hills, the developer
behind at any time podcast player. I think he perfectly
sums up why we got lower donations. Okay, so he says he's
seen as $24.07 And he said, Saturdays I go for a walk and
catch up on the latest episode. Not only does podcasting 2.0
give you a great give you great new features and value for
value. Turns out it's also it also keeps you fit. Having said
that last week's marathon two hour and 10 minute episode
nearly killed me. Go podcasting Ben at anytime player.
podcast was too long.
How many we are actually a public health threat. Yeah,
that's
the problem. How
many videos have to die before they cancel this show?
We're killing our audience.
Yes, we're gonna get canceled. That's it. That's that's our
PayPal donations.
Wow. Yes. All right, good.
Let's see here. We got mere mortals podcast or buddy Karen
down to the fountain that gave us a big long road ducks 22 to
22. And he says, not sure if this boost is for Dave smooth,
crooning. Adam sultry French dinner for the wife for the DJ
groin replacement. That's when I tried to blow my groin off with
in any case, these sets are well earned love the last episode.
Quack, quack, quack. Yes. Thank
you very much.
You do it. He's a bro. is able Kirby gave us 50,000 sets.
Was he the big baller for today?
I think he made the there might have been another 15 We're gonna
have Shakalaka blades on?
He can he could share his baller status.
Curio caster was the app in question here. And he says, I
don't like writing notes. I just want to boost but don't write
something you don't know. I'm listening. Boost. The big
baller. John's BRT send his 49,000 SATs. That's almost
50,000 I think he deserves a baller to podcast. Shot Carla 20
is Blaze owner. He sent that one through fountain and he just
says r&d That's the message r&d Our n or m in an indie or indie
random obviously
any anything Kevin. Pick
up the other day I got a donut This is one of the problems with
donut again a value for value lesson guys. I got a note on the
no agenda show and someone said I am an S A hmm SHM no S H M and
everyone's like surprised I'm surprised you don't know what
that means. stay at home mom. Oh, like I did. I mean it took
me a long time to get w f h I didn't I didn't understand that
one for you. We know wfh work from home. Work From Home these
are all pandemic terms now work for is like what is W F h but I
did not get that so be careful with your acronyms people. WTF
WTF whf?
Why every time every time somebody posts post one of those
like short, something that starts with a W i just
automatically think it's dirty. I mean, yes, yes. Yes.
You know,
like, I'm like wfh, I'm come My mind is coming up with all kinds
of horrible phrases. I don't know what r&d is, but I know
that isn't BRT. Yeah.
Nice. is a national treasure.
Yeah. Thank you John's BRT. Steve Webb Oh Steve when he got
cast our God caster Yeah 7777 cents through pod friend and he
says because you rock Oh my podcast at audio Bible dot Link
has a constant incoming stream of sets and it's all because of
you guys go podcasting
I like that combo combo it's work Abel Kirby sent us 13,333
sets and he says boost for Kyron down boost. Okay I guess he just
likes Karen a lot see oh there's a page that just says boost on
it and that's from forged foe is 11,011 11,111 SATs so a row ones
through fountain and he just says boost Oh on boost.
I was a little weak and we try to
kind of flesh it boosted a pinky and this one set just as high.
Okay, okay.
This is the one SATs Hey, thanks for your boost
boost estetica the inventor of the term booster gram sent us
2376 SATs to fountain and he says love the icon go booster
grams. Yeah. How you doing? 15,000 SATs from David meatus
and he says thanks for the mention of Fun Fact Friday. See
you Monday, Adam Lila and David meet us.
Oh my goodness. I sure hope so. I'm going to do a test Sunday
night. mean if I'm negative Sunday night, I mean I'm willing
to go to Nashville but I'm I'm more I'm more cautious about
that than anything.
But did you actually test positive? Yes, I
did. I did. Okay, yeah. But I mean, what does it mean? Now?
Okay, sure.
Maybe first one was negative, but your second one was
positive. Right? Yeah.
The first one I tested immediately on on Monday. I was
like, Okay, let me just check nothing, and then waited until
yesterday and was showed positive. And today I'm sick. I
mean, definitely. Um, yeah. I mean, I right now as we speak,
I'm sloshing Washington my galoshes,
I remember at podcasts business omit me we, me and Tom walked
into that. It was like some kind of club thing where they had
this huge dance party. I think it was like a heart radio or
something like that. He walked in and I'm like, sat there and
stared for about 30 seconds. He's like, No, I'm out. Around
he's like he said, you can see the Delta floating in the air.
Oh, Billy Newman since 2000 SATs through fountain at said SATs
from the Cash App.
Oops. Oh, cool. That's working now. Nice. Yeah. Nice.
Scott. Listed as s dot c dot O dot t dot T yes in this 10,420
SATs and he says go podcasting. 2.0
very nice respectable Thank
you. Okay, sir. Sir Spencer's in a 6887 says through fountain it
says 6887 equals nuts in t nine. This is my nuts boost for being
nuts and running with running with the podcasting 2.0
Scissors. That is the new mantra of podcasting. Two ways.
Podcasting. 2.0
running this is
we're all greatly looking forward to having Dave join us
with bowls for buds. Oh, that's right. I'm gonna be on there.
Live following no agenda on Sunday, February the 20th.
Thanks for all you do. Cool. We are going to be stepping up on
crowdsourcing some code this year. So Dave doesn't have to
work front end. Love his lid.
Wow, what a punishment day if you don't have to work on front
end. Your favorite thing to do
that he's saying that we don't have to work on front end really
means is Can somebody else please do this? Because this
looks like it looks like they're calling McCormick send us 333
sets. Thank you, fountain and he says I deliver legally mot I
deliver legally mobbing through the streets. What does that
mean? I delivered legally mobbing through the streets of
Woodland Hills, California. Oh, if I moved to Texas, I will only
accept SATs from curry for his pod father vapes.
Remember he talked about what he was doing when he was listening?
He was delivering something. Oh, that's right. That's right, man.
I may have to move man, but I got memory.
That's right. This is the official, the official drug
supplier of the podcast. Two Point OSHA.
No, he's not.
He said he said delivering delivering the vapes aren't
those illegal in that they make it illegal. I
think the vapes that he's talking about in California are
legal. Yeah.
Oh, okay. Okay. That's right state by state laws. I still
live in good old Alabama. Hey,
Texas, man, isn't it? It's, it's like I think they, they
immediately throw you in the river with a rock around your
neck. That's right for knowledge.
Comic Strip blogger. Hey, send us 10,033 sets through pod
friend and he says, howdy podcasting 2.0 Team Dave and
Adam. Today I just want to say Get well soon Adam after
catching COVID You've won genetic lottery so I'm sure your
recovery will be smooth.
What am I doing rematch? Yes, I have Vonda genetic lottery. Hey,
I need a comic strip blogger boost jingle gotta have one yes
that's a CSV I need a boost. I need one in yours baby.
Anonymous anonymous boost from the breeze app 5000 SATs nice he
says great plug I don't know who it is. Don't know what the
referencing but we'll take it. Thank you. All right. That's the
histograms I had.
So for our guests here today, no so please see how important the
numerology is in booster grams. This is another thing you can
play with it becomes really funny you can have donation
drives based upon the date, pi date you know the PI 314 You
know there's there's all these things you can do special like
episode numbers. I'll give an example from Korea and the
keeper I was just looking at the heli pad boost check this out.
To Korean the keeper 6969 sets the booster Graham. My therapist
wife and I are certified relationship coaches and sex
alternative sex educators. If any is interested in a better
relationship with better sex contact us. I mean, we're all
getting advertised advertising through this method is really
interesting.
I tried this I tried this with my first boost yesterday I sent
I was listening to the pod land and I boosted them 4401 The
message had nothing to do with the number but I'm wondering if
they're gonna figure out why I chose that number.
Numerology Yeah, it's beautiful to say the the legal pad in
front of Kevin is now completely full. You're having a sound of
writing margins to figure this donate donations, monthly
donations Jeremy new $5 Cameron Rose $25 pod verse, our buddies
at pod verse. So $50 Thank you. Sorry, I'm good rebound writing.
Lauren ball $24.20 Mitch Downey $10 Krista ruber, char Barak
$10. And Terry Keller. $5. Every time I read Terry Taylor's name
I always think of Tim Keller. Tim. Yes. Oh, yep. Yep. Tim
Keller, the preacher and Christian philosopher. Would you
call it from up in New York? I think
yeah, yeah, he's, they've got a podcast with some of his best
teachings is really good
care. Terry Keller is known as the human subscription machine.
He, he had this isn't Esther's nickname he donates to
everything. Mo facts, no agenda. I think D H unplugged
podcasting. 2.0 There are just people who are just really
rooting for podcasting. 2.0 success, and they will just
donate and push and boost everything they can and I love
them. All.
Right, let's booster gram tutorial over
Yes. And thank you to all of our supporters. We could do more on
the on the bigger numbers in the Pay Pal because of course the
booster grams. Though some big ballers are nice. We definitely
need more to support the 12 $1,300 a month nut that we
have now. And growing. Because I hear we're going to be doing
subscription shit now all of a sudden. Just kidding. Just
kidding. Just kidding. So yeah, new podcast apps.com. And
obviously, at podcast index.org. Any questions, Kevin? No.
You mentioned? Gosh, this is this is totally off of what we
just did. But you just mentioned subscriptions. Again, I just had
this idea. Like I mean, it's possible we get to the point
where the value payments where there's enough enough apps that
support it in the way that we want that you could add a tag
that says, you know, I don't want people listening past this
much or listening to this many episodes unless you're
supporting me at a certain point, but I wonder how scalable
that is. I want to keep on doing better on my brand.
Have you seen the bonus content tag proposal? Is that almost
fits exactly with what you're saying. It's basically content,
certain content is it's behind a paywall that you unlock through
a boost. Yeah.
Interesting. See, I want the exact opposite. Yeah, I'll tell
you what, here's what I know I did you say that Kevin? You say,
Me too. Yeah, here's what I want. I love all apps for
different reasons. What I really like is when an app has a queue
of new episodes that have just updated in chronological order,
I can because I can, like pod friend does this in a very
visual way. Like, okay, here's all the episodes, and this one
just came out yesterday, you know, going back and I can kind
of scroll back and you know, it creates an automatic cue for me,
what I would like, is the minute a new, a new here comes, the
minute a new pod drops, the I would like 10,000 SATs to go to
my favorite to that podcast right away without even
listening to it. It shows up in the app boost
from Kevin says, Man,
I don't know. But You're 100%, right, like that is the beauty
of you figure out what you want. You know, and if you're a
developer, then go and build it. Yeah, the trouble that we get
into is when we try to solve problems for other people. And
that's what I was just thinking like, I could probably come up
with some ideas that may be pretty good for people who want
to do subscription podcast stuff, but it's really not where
my interests lie right now. So I should probably let somebody
else solve
it right on. And we can't solve all problems of the world, but
we can continue on the path we're on and just keep doing
better.
in it. You know, one of the things that you guys were
running point on in the namespace proposals was the
channel's idea of bringing channels to the namespace. Is
that do you think that's still worth pursuing? What do you what
are your feelings on that? That was that worked out for like
that of Apple and other people have tried it?
I mean, I think it just caused a ton of confusion. Really?
Yeah, I feel like it derailed us because we were kind of getting
excited about the idea of using channels for networks, but
that's not really the way that they're using channels.
Okay, I've never really understood the channels issue,
is that worth explaining it to me? Is it something? Or is it
just something that we're not that interested in?
Um, I like thinking about channels in terms of, and I
think this is the way we started bringing the conversation before
it died off. But the idea of like, similar podcast or podcast
that I'm willing to recommend, or podcasts that have some
association, in so, you know, Adam, you're you don't just have
this show, you've got other shows. So being able to say in
your feed, hay podcast apps, if you want to recommend other, you
know, enjoying this show, and you want to recommend some other
shows, here's some other shows that I'm on. I like that idea.
But I don't know how, sorry, how far we need to go with that. I
think Apple definitely made it pretty confusing with with the
way they set up subscriptions, and you had to have a channel
and then you can have Ah, okay, so it was under a channel and a
channel, not necessarily the show. And like, that's all very
confusing. But in terms of a recommendation from the person
who's publishing the speed, hey, here's other shows. I'm either
in or I like that. I just want to recommend to people, I think
that a valid
but we have a tag for that, don't we, Dave? Or a proposal
related? Yeah, we have deleted pod? Yeah, yeah. Holy crap. We
thought of everything.
Kevin and Tom started fleshing that out. And then we had to get
guid done first, really, because you don't want to base channels
on feed URLs really do want to have them based on some, like
higher level metadata. And so we had that, we got that done. And
then we never really returned to talk about the channel proposal
more. So. I mean, it's, it may be one of those things that's
like, I'm not afraid of of having tags that didn't
ultimately end up never getting used. That's not a problem. I
mean, people people are either going to use them find them
useful, or they're not. Having them there is not is not an
issue. But But I don't want to I don't want to waste time if we
don't think it's going to be a real successful thing.
Dave, did we did we somehow not? I mean, maybe it came in between
shows or somehow I don't think we really promoted the fountain
app news.
It just came this week, like the mid the mid week, I think, yeah.
Fountain fountain is now onboarding. podcasters. With
with a wallet right in the app is amazing. Yeah, the way that
works, too, like I worked with Oscar to he, um, I have the
ability, you know, what I do is for specific use case for this,
I can set up a Partner API. So it's just sort of a subset of
the normal API that's restricted to only that specific app or
that If developer set of API keys. And so what we did, what I
did was set up a Partner API for Oscar at fountain, so that he
could send value blocks into the index for so he can say, hey,
hey, podcast index here, this feed ID now has this once this
value block, so it'll it'll hand it off to us. And it will stick
it in there sort of like a podcast or wallet, but through
the API. Very cool. That allows them to do that they can
onboard. They rolled their own LNP node, and now they're done.
They take the they do the open source. They took that and made
that and use that.
Now, Tim is running their stuff like he does for us.
Oh, perfect. Oh, perfect. Okay. Oh, good.
I'm really glad about that, too. Because a 1010 deserves to me
He, He does great work. He needs that business. That's a good
business. I'm
glad he's wanting to do it too. But of course, that's what he's
always wanted. He's always wanted to work with B will
always want to do b2b. Yeah, yeah. So perfect business. Well,
congratulations to fountain man. That's that's, that's really,
really progressive. That's progressing.
What's up? What's up with POD land like horning in on our
turf? They're like interviewing Gigi and not and Oscar Mary.
They're like, scooping or scooping are our guests. No, no,
no. I'm gonna start doing Spotify press releases.
Oh my god. Wow. Well, that was that was really rude in so many
ways. I loved it. Good. Oh, man. That was almost British level
rudeness. Humor I was good. At it delights me to no end.
Because yeah, it's boring to talk about the the legacy app
companies, this exciting people out there doing exciting things.
And that includes Tom and Kevin from Buzzsprout, who not only
have supported this, this project from the very beginning,
with their work with their effort, but also with their
finances. That is, is incredibly appreciated. We would not be
doing it to this level without us for sure. So I want to thank
you again, both personally, but also thank you, thank all of
your employees who I'm sure we only make life more complicated
for them and, and, you know, especially the Support Division,
but also the implementation part. I know it's it's work, and
I have an idea of what it takes and and it's just really
appreciate it. And it's great to be working with you guys.
Thanks. Appreciate it. Appreciate you guys.
Yeah, it's always a fun afternoon. We can talk to you
guys. So thank you so much.
Yeah, don't get used to it. We,
we, we we need to we need to end it because people are literally
dying on the sidewalk. Yes, it's
getting too long. We've got to stop. Thank you very much,
everybody for joining the board meeting of podcasting. 2.0 We
look forward to be here next week talking about everything
that's going on. Be good everybody. See you then bye bye.
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