podcasting 2.0 for June 17 2020 to Episode 90, it's the J and K.
Do we all have our scissors? Are you ready, start running time
for the board meeting of podcasting. 2.0 everything
happening with Well, of course, podcasting 2.0 the podcast
index.org The newest and latest developments in the podcast
standards, the namespace and of course, everything we're
discussing over at podcast index dot social. I'm Adam curry here
in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama. He's the
postman for your API endpoint ladies and gentlemen, say hello
to my friend on the other end, Mr. Dave Jones.
So my strategy should have been in 2020, long about long about
June of 2020. I should have bought like 455 gallon drums and
just filled them to the top with get with gasoline.
Oh, yes. It's called the Alabama strategic reserve.
ASR Yes, I should have replenished the ASR at at low
prices so that I would not be feeling the pain.
What today what is your what is your truck get? What is your
mile per gallon on on your classic Ford pickup?
It's not bad. No, it's not bad at all. It's where I'm cruising.
15 to 17 miles per gallon 1570
Is that bad? I get 30 in my car.
Miss show off. Its fist 15 to 17
modern car you know modern computer controlled injection
and everything. So it's it's ultimately tuned by the fine
folks at Mercedes Benz around town.
1570. On the highway, I get a little bit hard, but it's a six
cylinder so it's not too bad. Now the one the one that's bad.
So we we recently got another we got a 1967 F 100. We we picked
that one up off Facebook marketplace. And now that one
has a 460 in it in the four barrel. It's like 10 miles to
the gallon. You know, I guess spending most of his time
sitting on the curb. I got
my e 300. Almost four years three years ago now. And it has
all the stylings of the like the AMG kind of subtle but really
hot car. But under the under the hood, you know, it's the E it's
not the actual AMG. It's a two liter nine speed engine. And I
think it's I think it's four cylinder.
But the man doesn't speech.
But those guys they've tuned that stuff. It's unbelievable.
How much power they get out of it.
I mean, that's the whole thing now is small small block big,
big turbo. Yeah. Yeah, I'm assuming Yes.
No, of course of course. But I think it's the the nine speeds
that really does it. I mean, you just pop out. Pew pew pew pew
pew fifth.
Yeah. Like that's that. So I've rebuilt and rebuilt an automatic
transmission before. And it is so much the one I rebuilt was a
nanny for four hours and DW says it for transmission rebuilt it
in my kitchen. And the way that you pull it apart and all the
clutch packs and everything. They're all pretty beefy, decent
size. You know, once you get into like a nine speed 10 Speed.
Yeah, I mean, those those clutch, this clutch packs are so
small, that in thin that it doesn't take hardly anything to
just blow one of those things. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, the show was lit once again. We've been experimenting
for the past couple a couple of weeks with the live item tag the
which contracts the acronym lit. I think now, I did it yesterday
on no agenda, although the pod verse signal did not go off,
which I presume is the caching issue that is on my end, right.
Yeah, that's right. Because what part of this CDN issue
Yeah, so I think what happened so pod verse receives the pod
ping that the show is lit but it parses the feed can't find it
because of the cache and then gives up is that the idea? Is
that what's happening
is the feed is always the source of truth Yeah, in apps
appropriately as they should they see the pod and a lot of
piping come through and then they go and they parse the XML
to make sure that it matches you know, instead of some buddy
can't just spam a bunch of live tags right or live in then they
go matched up so okay, this this thing actually have a live item
and if it does, is it this is the status live, right, if all
that matches up, and it all checks out? Denison's
notifications, okay, but since yours is cached, it's just it's
taking a long time to update. Yeah. Oh, And I honestly, I'm
not exactly sure how to fix that.
Well, I know Mitch was working on some cache busting URL
extensions, which I don't know if I guess it didn't work.
No, it didn't it can't I mean, caching. You could just when it
comes to caching, I mean, you, you could say something like,
we're not going to look at anything. You could say, we're
not going to look at any HTTP headers, we're not going to look
at any URL parameters. All we're gonna do is look at just this
resource. And the only the so for, for the non technical. It'd
be like, https colon slash slash, no agenda stream, or I
don't even know what the urls.com/feed.xml So that would
be your fault. That's the file that you're downloading. Right?
That's the that's the feed file, then you could you could say, it
doesn't matter what the headers are this I'm talking about as
the cat. Yeah, sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. You can say I don't
care what the what anything else you send me you could put in a
question mark some URL parameter on the end of it, or you could
send some e Tag headers, or last modified or anything like that,
you could say, as the cache, I'm gonna ignore all that. Right,
I'm just gonna give you back the changes when I want you to,
which I think
is how the CDM s is acting. I think that's what's happening. I
don't care what you're doing with your dangling things there.
Your question mark dangles,
sometimes you don't want people busting the cache, because it's
so critical that it not go over bandwidth concerns that you just
say, Look, I'm gonna give it to you when I want you to have it.
And you can't tell me anything else. Yeah. I think that's
what's happening. And yeah,
well, I'm I'm a unique situation. Currently, you're
always a unique.
But this for podcasting. 2.0 works really well. And that's
just send a server clickety. Click boom, it's working. Love
it. Yeah.
Yeah, we have so weird, the way ours is set is that we're doing
it through Cloudflare. With with object storage on the back end.
So Cloudflare Cloudflare can obviously handle that load, they
can handle these spikes. Your your CDN is using, I think, a
local caching server, and is probably theirs, that's probably
self defense, I would have to imagine for that caching server,
because it just can't handle that.
Well. There's also a propagation issue with my CDN, because it's
homebaked. So I upload it to one server, it has to be uploaded to
the other three. Now, that takes a little bit of time.
Oh, okay. So this is a new information. So you see, there's
like a load balancer in front of it or something? Yeah,
well, I get an email that says, Okay, this is what I do. I drop
it into my FTP client uploads, and then I wait, and I get an
email that says, Okay, this is the resource, and it'll show me
all the machines that it was copied to, if there were any
errors, it of course, it tells me there's an error right up
front, but there isn't, it tells me the file name. And, and then
theoretically, it's good to go. But in practice, it still takes
anywhere from because I see it with the hyper capture, when,
when I go to do the set up the default chapter mark, which is
kind of important because a couple apps out there if you
have a link to a chapter json file resource in your RSS feed,
but there's nothing there. Then one of the apps was breaking. I
can't remember which one it was. There was like actually
crashing, crashing. So I just thought, well, it's just a good
idea to have that in there. And I can always put a little
message you know, hey, dribs coming, you know, the Bruce
Wayne of podcasting. 2.0 will have the chapters ready soon.
But but when I go into hyper capture, I have to kind of sit
there and refresh for anywhere from 30 seconds to five minutes
before hyper capture can pull it up. Okay, so yeah, it's
that that's, that's consistent.
Okay. I'm fine. Like, this is not fun. These scissors are no
good. They're not sharp.
It's bogus, scissors.
Scissors are not happening.
Yeah, that's consistent with what we've seen before with your
feed. Now, you know what, like back? What was it? We kept? It
kept dropping his credit was the initial pod pain. It was when we
first rolled out pod ping. Things weren't going through,
right, right.
webs. That's what it was webs. Because you kept sending things
you're like it's not updating. But it's because the XML is Some
wasn't there yet. So what I mean, if it's a propagation
issue on the backside, I think it's both. Yeah. Okay.
Well, we'll figure it out one way
or the other the only guy that knows his voice. I have you
talked to him? I have not yet.
I have two clips I'd like to play at the top of the show.
Well, yes, yes. Yes to exemplify what what I feel we're doing
with the considering the original mission of podcasting
2.0. I think we're right on track. And here are the two
reasons why. One is, of course, we want to protect podcasting
and podcasters and protect their freedom of speech, within the
legality of of any laws, of course, which we've discussed
quite openly here many times. But in general, if you want the
x 22 report, hey, yeah. This is central western bank news. So if
you want to hear that, then you can get it on a podcast and 2.0
app. As you know, part of this project was the foresight that
there's going to be censorship and this censorship is going to
be for all kinds of reasons. And in the past two years, we've
seen it mainly for medical procedures and medication people
have been D platformed. told to shut up told to go away D
monetize the YouTube, certainly quite quite active in that
regard. And now we are in an energy crisis. energy crisis
now, the origins of it, you can debate and that's the point you
should be able to debate and to debate it. But you, most people,
I think, have probably seen the means that we briefly had a
director or Executive Director of something called the
disinformation governance board in the United States. As scary.
Still a great title. Yeah, well, believe me this thing didn't go
away. The thing is not gone as a part of Department of Homeland
Security, Michael Chertoff, the Chertoff Group, they're the ones
that are mentoring this and that guy, you know, you go look at
any of the full body scanners in the airport, that's the guy who
put them there. And some whistleblower came forward and
said, hey, you know, these guys were ready to operationalize
their relationship. And this is apparently where Nina Yang
covets comes in. She's good friends with several high up
executives at Twitter, just to name one. And the idea is if
there's something going on in on a social network that goes
against the government mandate narrative, you know, pick
whatever you want, then they will contact the social media
companies in the social media companies will then do something
about it. That's basically called censorship. But it was
all a little bit under the radar. And, you know, this blew
up in everyone's face. Again, it's not gone. But here's our
energy secretary, Gina McCarthy, talking about this very topic.
And so the challenge is now that we're moving from denial, to
actually just trying to, to disengage the public from
understanding the values of solar energy, the values of wind
energy, the benefits of clean energy, we have to get tighter,
we have to get better at communicating. And frankly, the
tech companies have to stop allowing specific individuals
over and over again to spread this information. That's what
the fossil fuel companies pay for that's what folks who make
money out of fossil fuels in don't make money it's been don't
care about saving consumers costs. That's what they do. We
have to be smarter than that. And we need the tech companies
to really jump in.
So they have not they've not forgotten about the tech
companies who they need to really jump in whether they have
a disinformation governance board or not. Yeah, and the
Cavalier ness of which she speaks
like like it's just no big deal like it's just it's just spot
isn't we need to do it the sciences
in the people are too stupid. You don't understand how great
solar and wind is. So therefore no discussion. So, yes,
I've got a I've got a clip
groobie
the play? What if the people are stupid?
And faced by the horror in the Balkans, President Clinton's
representative called Richard Holbrook brought the question
out into the open. Suppose elections are free and fair, he
said And those elected are racist fascists, separatists.
That is the dilemma
an American political scientist could Fareed Zakaria put it more
bluntly. The people we are told, he said, are the most important.
We are driven by the phrase, the American people are not stupid.
But what if they are?
So yeah, Fareed Zakaria, the anti constitutionalist, dude
from CNN, hey, Phoebe, Camilla. She doesn't see she hears his
dog or she hears Fareed Zakaria. She's like bark bark. Hear me
girls. Okay. You're good.
I mean, that's, that's the
whole The whole point is if if the people are stupid, and the
people like stupid people, that's our own stupid mistake to
make. That's what America is built on. Yep.
And also, it also reveals a way that a way that a certain class
of people are thinking about demand out the rest of us.
Yes. And it's whatever you do, but don't have any Converse?
Well, I think there's a difference between stupid and
dumb. I believe they meant to say the American people are
dumb, because people like Fareed Zakaria are stupid. He's not.
He's very intelligent, obviously. But he's stupid. And
there's a lot of this on display right now a lot of things like
Do you not see the complete contradiction that you have? The
statement you're making is you can just turn on the TV. Anyway,
the idea that you can't discuss these things, like, you know,
and I can see where people get really uptight, over vaccines or
mandates, and you know, this, oh, my goodness, yeah. Why is
this even a discussion? You know, are we allowed to, I
guess, the New York Times has made us allowed to talk about
our president and that he clearly is unfit for office, you
know, so, the go ahead has been given for that. But when it
comes to any discussion, and this is how it goes, we've,
we've seen what happens like, you gotta label click, you're
done. You don't surface you're taken off, because you had the
audacity to talk about nuclear. Yeah, you know, stuff like that.
So I feel that mission is well accomplished, I'm very proud of
the work that everybody's done. Of the size of, of the
collection of the cleanliness of the data that we have, and the
access to it. And this This is truly, truly revolutionary. What
we and I mean it in the real sense of the word revolutionary,
is revolution revolutionaries usually don't get money from oil
companies.
I haven't got my check yet.
I did go to the to the to the mailbox before I started the
show, just in case but no.
Safety Check. Yeah. Well, I mean, good. You know, Google, we
see we see what happens with with censorship anyway, even on
a technical level, with the stuff this week of Google
censoring the word censoring podcasts with the word lesbian
in it, you know, I
that's interesting. You bring that up, because, in a rare
moment, I played this clip on no agenda.
during pride month, Google podcasts is blocking and hiding
some podcast episodes apparently because they use the word
lesbian RPG roams apparel and glories during the 13th episode
visible everywhere else isn't available on Google podcasts in
the US, UK or Australia, even to logged in over 18 users. The
podcast creators say there's nothing adult in this episode at
all.
No, I think I have a different take on this than then James or
maybe even you.
I'll tell you mathematics really simple. My take my take is just
I told you so. I mean, like, I think I've been saying from the
very beginning. Yes. That No. Any any of this when you empower
censorship? Yep. And it's going according to your plan,
everything is fine, everything's great. But as soon as it swings
the other way and goes and now I feel like this is clearly a
mistake. That mistake on their part but the once it starts to
swing the other way, you've just get you willingly gave the tools
to the people to do the thing that's now going to bite you in
the butt.
Yeah, my take is somewhat different. It is it is also an I
told you so. But I already
pre approval of it.
You know, I've studied the LGBTQ q ia P k plus community as a
narrative since its inception. It started as G L. This is where
the GLA D comes from the Gay and Lesbian Alliance. alliance
against anti defamation defamation
Yeah, but it's always G L and then we got G lb. Gay Lesbian.
bisexual. This goes back a few years, I know I date myself. And
then we had a switcheroo. It became LGB. And the lesbians
moved to the front of the line. And this was the beginning of
the breakup of something that never existed, which is this
fallacy and, and I accused all all reporters and journalists
and talking heads of doing this. Just like there is no black and
brown community. It's not a community. In fact, those two
can be polar up opposite often. There's also no LGBTQI community
and to show you that that's true. The there's enormous hate
against gay men right now. And in fact, the problem with gay
men is their men that they have toxic masculinity certainly, you
know, the kind of the beef the beefy gay guys, and they in
fact, there's been many articles you can go take a look at it.
There's now on all you have white gay privilege, white male
gay privilege. So the gays are being the gay men are being
pushed out. Now the lesbians are also problematic, often known as
turfs. Because the lesbians are saying, well, a trans woman is
not really a woman, you see the problem. So the lesbians are on
the way out. And the way this is being done, you see, okay, you
cannot have a property, immediate property or a program
or this is my opinion, I could be wrong. That does not
recognize all the rainbow people. If it doesn't recognize
LGBTQI, at minimum, you can't just do something about else. So
yeah, I told you so is right, is for different reasons. I think
Google is ultra woke. That's the problem. It's an ultra woke
move, not a discriminatory move based against lesbians, per se.
So you're saying it's a it's a the word, the word gay and the
word lesbian are being those are being ousted? brought out? Yeah,
those are being taken out. Indeed. So the only thing you're
allowed to use is the is the acronym LGBT. Okay. And you have
to add, yes, it's LGBTQ i plus. That's the official, the
official acronym, I believe that is shorting a lot of important
people. Yes. There's two b's.
That's possible. I never thought about it that way. It struck me
every possible
because Google's got woke people, you know, and they
wouldn't just discriminate. Now could also be a simple mistake.
But you're right, the tools are there, the tools get used. So
let's talk about these tools. This next clip is a little bit
shorter, even. It's part of a longer conversation, you know,
I'll see if I can find the link and put it in the show notes.
Many people saw this but I think it was just beautiful. To see
that the system we have developed this value for value
streaming payment system that we have now incorporated into what
do we have? Are there seven apps now that the can do this? thing?
So yeah. So I'm obviously I'm leaving other podcasts and to
point us stuff out of it namespace just for, for
clarification of us reaching these goals. I'm no I'm sure you
saw this is Marc Andreessen of Andreessen Horowitz, big venture
capital company.
You got it. Okay. You get this clip, almost clipped it. And I
know him 1993 I think it was I got an email. I was running
mtv.com with a gopher server. And it was, hey, it's Mark. He
was at college, Champaign Urbana, Illinois. Hey said I've
got this, this thing. It's a mosaic. It's a browser. And you
need to set up an HTTP daemon daemon. And so am I headless son
three, I struggled through it got it set up, and it worked.
And that was Netscape. And so that's when mtv.com was on the
web. Now we fast forward. What is it now? That 40 years? No.
3030 years? 32,003? Yeah, 30 years, a lot. We have podcast in
2.0, which is a, an open group and open project, anybody can
join, anybody can participate. And because of the value for
value streaming payment system with the with the value block
splits, everybody can and usually does participate in the
ecosystem, which was also one of the missions. The idea and this
is before this magical thing came up called Web three.
Because web three sounds an awful lot like it
when I'm hoping and what we're actually seeking at the firm
what we're trying very hard to find. I'm hoping for example,
for podcasts. I'm hoping five years from now, there will be
these thriving, you know, call it web three podcast
environments that will be open and will be you know, it will
have this sort of anarchic, uncontrolled kind of element
that I think that I think you and I both like, however, will
have a higher level of trust and will have a higher level of a
monetary incentive an economic incentive. Then the open
networks of the past usually dead. And so there's this
there's this third way. And you know, this is still early, but
like we're quite optimistic that there might be a new way to
build these systems. And I'm excited to see what happens.
So it's a little anarchistic. It's a third way. Everybody
profits from their own endeavors. It's more
distributed. Huh? What does this sound like to you, Dave?
I can't I mean, I'm racking my brain. I can't think of
anything. That I mean, this must be something new that the
world's never seen before. Now, I can't say I can't think of a
single thing that already does this.
So I think we can both say that we don't need to wait five
years. It's here we're doing it. And with was it now? Well over
7000 podcast, using the value for value streaming payments and
booster grams and all that stuff? I think we're kind of
their apps get paid. developers get a piece now. Is everybody
making bank? No, no. But there is something very important.
Listen again to what he says in the beginning,
what I'm hoping and what we're actually seeking at the firm.
What we're trying very hard to find
what we're trying very hard to fund. Well, I
think got a check on that either.
No, although it makes me think you know, Dave, we should wrap
this whole thing up and sell it to Marc Andreessen. Everybody
gets rich. Come on, why don't we sell the whole thing?
Everything? I'm just doing this obviously for effect.
Yes, we I mean, we could have okay, we can probably well, we
could.
We could sell curio caster and breeze and fountain. And we
could sell all the apps. Everyone gets a piece. Everyone
gets a million bucks.
We create an LLC that's got 150 people in it, but we have an
LLC. Okay, we're just expanding this one too, to encompass you.
No, no, no, we're just gonna have any five different
developers.
This package you're thinking all wrong. If we're gonna do the VC
route. We're gonna do money. We take the money we tip everybody
else
then go, yes. Everybody else gets tip.
That's right. It's time tipping came to podcasting. That's
right.
That's, that's the only way tipping gets onto your tongue is
in a gag like that. I know. It's it's fantastic. Now I love it.
And now we just do a spec spec. Yeah, there you go. Man. Jason's
got a couple of specs up his sleeve.
Well, Steven Be the man behind curio caster says I'd sell out
in a heartbeat for a million bucks. All right, who else is
off? Hey, if you're all you're all up for up good for me, but
but wait until we get that first board meeting, when they asked
you to bend over and shove your shares up your butt, and then do
a down round and then dilute you.
I'd rather be I'd rather be broke and own and own myself.
That's right, brother, rich and have somebody else that
is right. That is right. And we got to show 100 coming up, which
we'd like everybody to remember. And we'd like everybody to
remember that we are not selling out to Vc. However, it would be
nice to in this low Bitcoin value environment to be YouTube
up your savage if possible, so that we can not dip into the
reserves for paying for the bills.
Yeah. And speaking of that, by the way that I think I think
you're exactly right on the on the word replacement thing. I
think the more I think about that, I think that's that's
probably right, because I see, we see it visually you see it
visually. This is something that's been on my mind for a
while. Do you like at this point, about two or three years
ago, I noticed that people started doing this. I think
YouTube was the first place I saw it where they started
changing people's colors. So like when they would have their
artwork in within within the YouTube platform. It would be
these big, like androgynous people that were like blue and
purple and green. I missed
this trend. Was this people the creators doing this or YouTube
doing this?
No is YouTube's promotional graphics like their branding and
stuff? Oh, creator, creator day and it would be like, a bunch of
nondescript these are. They're clearly meant to be humans.
Yeah. But they're purple and blue and
we can't have any reality. Real colors.
I mean, like it's every day, it's like this attempt to just
rid rid all its brand safety taken to such an extreme that
they can't even acknowledge reality anymore, that they're
that there are it's like, we're so afraid to offend somebody
that we don't even want to show what people really look like.
Yeah, and it's like the same thing with language. We're so
afraid to offend somebody, we don't even want to use real
words for people. Eventually, we're just gonna, you know, make
up whole new words for for people that just don't even
report to any reality.
I think we're well underway with
actually, I'm not sure what I'm talking about.
I think that's kind of happening. Yeah.
The cat but I think you're right with cat, you know, cast upon
their they're getting into hosting they have you seen that?
No, no, no, no. Yeah. And the last dev meeting, Benjamin
Bellamy was telling, saying that was I was asking him about pod
ping. And he was saying how they get they're getting into
hosting. Because that's just like a natural thing. What
somebody runs their own caster pod instance. The next thing
they want, you know, they gotta have a place to put their media.
Right, right. Wow. So they're prepared to go into this
nightmare of a business. Evidently. Wow. Evidently, I
mean, I told Steve and be like, do you like your life? He says,
Yes. Don't become a hoster. Yeah, because it's not the
technical issues. It's the customer support issues. Yeah,
you're the first line you're the first call people make when it's
not showing up on Apple.
And where's my life pod ping in pod verse. This the other call
you get
so now Shep Oh, bah. I would say Benjamin because that's that's a
tall order. All right.
I guess the reason I'm connecting noses I think the the
ecosystem of decentralized podcasting is starting to like,
not only decentralize the the ecosystem of of decently I'll
say this, the answer is the Libra ethos, libre ethos. Yes,
the ad the pure pure libre ethos within podcasting is beginning
to take hold, so that people are beginning to want to own not
just their brand, but their infrastructure is the thing that
Todd Cochran has always talked about, you know, own your own
website. You own your domain, all that kind of stuff start
that's where you start. And then you branch out from there as
he released the new media show where he's bitching about
Spotify because I listened to that update. Yeah, Todd Cochran
mad at someone about RSS is just it's good listening. Good
listening entertainment.
And it? Oh, no, I don't want to I don't want to jump gears
before you're finished with your
Well, no, no, that was it. So I just wanted to say
congratulations, look at what you've achieved. We're not even
at 100 episodes of this podcast and just turn around for a
second everybody take a look. Take a look. Take look down at
the ground liquid with your own shit that you've built. This is
stuff to be proud of man and you got guys out there saying you
know, Billy a billionaire with real money to back it up. Man
five years I really hope we can get this done. We're desperately
trying to fund it. Look at where you are. Look at where you're
kicking their ass.
It's right here. Mark You can have it for free. Yes,
exactly. Just it'd be nice if you donate it but yeah, have it
for free build an app there's a
thought hit up the Pay Pal Yeah, we're all good. That's right so
no on the on the podcast Libra Friday. No agenda to Alex has
been wrong. He's
kicking ass. I know. He's got all kinds of stuff he's got now
you can flip a switch and you can get your email show up in
the RSS feeds you can claim it in curio caster. All right.
Fountain and in the podcast wallet. Yep. Yeah, this
is so for people who don't know. No. Agenda tube is a is a I call
it a fork. I mean, I don't I guess it is a for kids.
If Alex, if Alex built it is probably a fork.
Yeah, I think I think I think it's fair to call it a fork at
this point where he has a took peer tube and just and forked it
and now he's been he's made a lot of changes to it to support
podcasting 2.0 features. He runs it all himself on his own dime,
the video hosting service, but else but since it's part of peer
tube, it's got a lot of diff a lot of cool capabilities like
webs, like like a peer to peer was like a web torrent. Yeah,
yeah, web torrent. Yeah, web torrent HLS. And, yeah, a lot of
that kind of stuff that makes bandwidth really
which is important. Important. People implement that if at all
possible.
Yeah. Steven bass. It is forking awesome Yes. That's it. So so he
is he baking pot ping in there. 10 bucks as us. Oh,
yeah, he'll do. For sure. But so he's, here's some of the things
you He's done lately. Is XMPP in the chat on live pay?
Let's talk about that for a second. Okay. So that's
something that fits with all validity into the social
interact tag or is this different?
Not yet, it will. There's no reason it can't. But is that
even the point? Is it a little? Is it a little different?
Because it's, it's chat. So it's chat. Is that the same as
comments?
No, it's it is the point. Yes. Well, I think I think he wants
to know, it's on the page first, but then you'll have then you'll
have it in social interact tag may already be in the social
interaction, really. And I need to check that. Let's see. Here's
his life cycle. See social interact.
There's got to live item in the feed when he hits go live, it
flips to live item in the NA two rssb. That's actually
yes. That's the next thing that he's added recently is live
items. So now you can you can go live on no Jonah, no agenda Tube
channel. And it'll put a live item in there.
On the show, yes. And no agenda. I know, I'm always I always have
a moment around the donation segment where I plug podcasting
2.0. And it's often it's like, oh, you can see all these
images, Chapter images, but actually played some of this.
And I, and I'm sure I told him before, but I said, you know,
right now we're, we're live in all the podcast apps that that
can do it. And I explained what it was, he was like, Holy crap,
really? He was surprised when I said, Yeah, you get a ping and
your podcast app, you click on it, open it up, you hear the
live stream, you got the chat right there. He's like, really?
So yeah,
that's this is pretty awesome. Like, for him
to say that that's a big, that's a big deal. Actually, it's a big
deal for him to say, that's
really, yeah, he's never impressed by anything. He's not.
So I've done it all, no agenda tube, and I cranked up the
channel and did the and did live. It works great. So the one
thing that was lacking, though, is, is support, you know, in the
index, we weren't, we weren't consuming live item. Tags,
right. And, you know, I should probably go back again and say,
live items. So what a live item is, is, if you're familiar with
the way an RSS feed looks is you have every episode is is called
sit syntax wise in an RSS feed is called an item. And so it's
an item, and then all the information about the episode is
in the item. So we just created in the podcast namespace, a
thing called Live item. And it lives in the RSS channel. So
it's appear, it's if you think about it that way, it's like a
sibling of all the rest of the items. But because it's prefixed
with a namespace, podcast, colon live item, it can exist there
and not violate RSS. And the apps and platforms that ingest
the RSS feeds, they just don't even they don't see it. So it
doesn't mess anything up. They just read the items because
they're there. If they're not ingesting the namespace yet, or
even if they are basically as long as they're not as long as
they just do everything like they always have the existence
of another thing called something else at the channel
level doesn't miss anything.
Well, it did with dog catcher.
I still see I still don't think that I still think it's
something else. I don't think it was purely the live item. Well,
I
put the live out there put the live out in back into no agenda
and it broke the app again.
When did you do that?
So I got that report a week ago. And then I if you recall, and
then I took the live item out of the no agenda feed, then I got
reports back. Oh, it's working again. And then I put it back in
for yesterday's show. And I get reports. Oh, it broke again,
same error. It's something with dog catcher. I'm not I'm not
saying that. That. I think didn't I think we went through
this. But the way we're doing it is valid. We got that we got
validation that from the XML gurus that this is okay. What
we're doing. Yeah, from Baxter Yeah. But for some reason it's
breaking dogcatcher. And I said, Yeah, I'm sorry. We just have to
break dogcatcher new podcast app.com.
It's not like there's no other option.
Well, people, you know, apps are very personal to people.
Now, I am not I don't want to like dismiss that. Because
you're right, that they are very personal. But But this, but you
have to understand that I mean, this is an abandoned app.
There's no there hasn't been development on it since 2012.
Yeah. Oh, really? I thought it was 2018 2012 longer than I
realized. It. I
think that if my understanding is right in 2012 was last time
had an update, but who knows I could be wrong. Anyway, so that
that's buggy parsers aside, this, this all works. Fine. And
then dog catchers. The only thing we've seen this had a
hiccup. Yeah. Everything else was fine. So that's what we're
that's what we're talking about. That's what enables all this
live stuff to happen? Well, the live items have been in the
feeds. And it's part of the namespace. It's official now,
they've been in the face for a while, but it's not been in API.
So yes, yesterday, they before I worked on putting support for
live item into the index.
Now, how will that be used?
Well, that's part of the what I want to talk about, I want I
want to talk a little bit about here's, here's what I've done.
So far, I've added live items support to party time, which is
the the ingest or the parser. So it's picking it up in the feed,
it's putting it into the database. And I have currently
one endpoint that I just hastily made just to expose it just so
we can start playing with it. It's called slash API is an API
skull slash episodes slash live. So if you call that API
endpoint, you're going to list get a list of all the current
live items. And it's
based upon a pod ping and a check against the feed. Now all
we do is check against the feed. Because we don't we don't have
to do it any other way. True. Because every time we get a
piping of any type, we always report.
Right, right. Right.
So that's the that's the way it exists right now. So my question
is, and then what I wanted to discuss was, how should the API
pay, like, give back this information? What? How,
what is the expected end? Well, if you could have parameters,
you'd like to know, a timeframe. And the way I would, as a
developer, of course, is as developer, here's what I haven't
intensive that developers
and app developer. If someone you know, it could be something
the app checks, you know, it was just a different way of of
getting the pod ping information, I guess, you fire
up the app here, the shows that are alive, you know. So would it
make sense to say here's the default is here shows that have
gone live in the last 30 minutes. And you can set it to
any, any timeframe back in time. Was that useless? Am I just
talking about of my developer? But
no, I mean, that the nature of the live items is once they're
ended, that they're, they're useless. So they're really only
so like, they don't become they don't have a state they don't
have any staying power within the feed. They're meant to be
ephemeral. So from that standpoint, I don't think a
historical live items have any use at all. But what you're
saying about showing like upcoming ones pending ones with
you know, they're scheduled to go to certain time or ones that
are current. That makes sense. Yeah, I just think I'm thinking
like curio caster shows. It has like, now Stephens got like, was
a podcast and he's got music. You can choose back and forth. I
wonder if there's that sort of thing. But for live like okay, I
want to see all the shows that are currently live streaming
right now. There's
a good reason for something like that. And I wanted to bring this
up if you don't mind. Yep. This what we're doing here. The lit
is incredibly cool for discovery. Because if you see
when I mean the power have never really observed this and, and a
great a great example is earlier this week, I forget what day it
was. Maybe it was was it Sunday, all of a sudden, I see all over
the place. I see there's a Twitter account, podcasting live
I think it is it's the same for Mastodon to podcast, podcasting
live is that it account for podcast live I think podcasts
live podcast live. So I see behind the scheme's with threes
is live with Dave Jones. Yeah, it was Sunday after after no
agenda. Cuz I knew that you were going to be on but I kind of
forgotten about it. I see this pop up on my timeline. I'm like,
Oh, shoot. So I go into my app. Oh, I don't see it. Well, it's
because I'm not subscribed. I go to you know, I do a quick
search. Bring it up. I listened. I boost a whole bunch of booster
grams to the show, which was fun. Yeah, this is a better
guitar player. But I also subscribe to the show. Yeah, as
a discovery mechanism, it's really cool. It really is
exciting into you know, not not lot of people follow these
accounts yet, but you know, whenever I see it, I retweet it
no matter what it is, this is a this is a real discovery
mechanism. And in fact, I think, you know, there's reasons for
all kinds of pod ping bot accounts. If you know what I
mean. why would why wouldn't someone curate, you know, the
top five tech shows and have a bot that let you know when when
that when that tech show was either updated with a new
podcast, or you know, or if they're live,
it reminds me of what we were used to do with. With news
rivers where you would you would spawn a like a category, like a
news river that had a certain category of feeds in it. And you
say, Okay, this, it would have its own, he would have his own
page and everything like that. And it would only show you items
from the OPML list that you've built for that thing is sort of
the same way you have bots that say, Okay, here's all the tech
shows that are going there. Live Streaming, here's all the, you
know, garden shows that are sure that mean, or Dutch, here's all
the Dutch shows
infinitely expandable. If anyone can tap into it, anyone could
tap into it and writing an app that does this guy's super
exciting.
I want more podcasters to do live shows. Because for a couple
of reasons. Like it's not once you're comfortable. And I say
this as somebody who's only been podcasting for the last two
years,
you were really kind of apprentice status still. But
okay. Mattawan mentee mentee,
one learner, we went in one day, I'll graduate and get my
when you can, when you can snatch the pebbles from my hand,
it will be time for you to leave Dave Jones.
And so once you get kind of you know, quote unquote comfortable
behind the mic, to where you're you're sort of used to doing
we're used to the process of doing it. Doing it live is not
that it's not that big of a deal. Like it really it really
has the but there was no bumps in the road. It just felt
normal. Yeah, but
let me stop you right there. Okay, because of the lack in
production tools. A majority of podcast does post production
post processing all of this stuff after the fact, going full
on Live is not the same as doing a podcast and then tweaking it
and editing it. And it's not everybody can do that. Now you
got the right schooling. I don't know from this, but someone
taught you the right way right off the bat that somebody did.
And I must say I'm, I'm still very excited about my, my road
caster, version two, which apparently is coming any day
now. And then I can endorse a device that that actually works
for live production. So well, but I'm just saying it's not
appropriate for every show to do live, nor do most people have
the production skills to do that.
Now it's abs, this is an absolutely idiotic thing for me
to say, to somehow disagree with you about about the streaming
media. I mean, it's as absurd. I mean, I might as well just jump
off a cliff, but go ahead. I'm gonna do it anyway. Here's the
thing, it's like, you can still, when you finish, you can still
post produce, and put out the polished one. But there's an
there's a, there's a unique, like, even if you're going to
Maven, or for messing up a bunch of starting and stopping and
that kind of thing. That's still valuable to hear it live because
you build a sort of like quirkiness with your audience
who's committed to your thing. And they're not going to they're
not going to be, you know, you're gonna have, you're gonna
have a committed core of people that listen to you, that want to
hear you, whether you mess up or not, and whether whether it's
whether the whole thing goes sideways. And this like I mean,
it's like when you mess up, there's a there's a quirkiness
and an attractiveness to that, too. So I think that, like if
people tried it live, that might, like you said, it helps
them with discovery, because they're going to be one of the
few shows that actually does a live stream. And then they're
still they can still post produce and cleaned it up and
put out the Polish later. But they stick but they get the
benefits of of the unique live experience. Of course,
and I'm not going to disagree with you on that, but it's not
it's not appropriate for every show. Gotcha. Jen Briony per
show was edited. She has clips, you know, for people playing
clips on the fly. It's just an That's something a lot of people
are trained to do. And I know this, I mean, this part, I know
a lot of people just don't do it that way. Now, there's a huge
non podcasting streaming audience, it's called YouTube, I
think this is the genius, you bring these people over, teach
them how to package it up. And you know, because it's really
this, for them, it's like I flip it on YouTube does the rest,
well, it's not going to be exactly like that with a podcast
host because you're gonna have to, you know, still bake the mp3
and upload it and do all that stuff. So that, you know,
there's some hurdles, which of course, could be shortened. But,
but if that's the audience that I think, will understand this,
inherently, it will be very happy with it. podcasters I
think they can, you know, the power of, of pod ping can be
harnessed in many ways for this for the discovery that we're
talking about, you know, when, when, when Dave Winer kind of
checked out a blog of blogging, I didn't, he didn't really check
out but he had web blogs.com and web blogs.com All it did was it
shows you the most recently updated web blog, and it was
pretty cool. He just sat there and it was like the like the pod
ping Dot Watch. He just sit down you watch stuff update in real
time, and you can click on it and read a post or whatever. So
it's really an aggregate in that case was an aggregator but I
think he was using XML RPC if I'm not mistaken to know to
create a version of pod ping or activity pub whatever you want
to use. And he sold that for $2 million. So if anyone wants an
idea um if anyone wants an idea you know something like that
where maybe you can filter yourself I mean like you said,
you know, certain language podcasts filter them out have
that be your your your update page or your bot these are great
things
Yeah, I guess no you know you're just want to see people be less
afraid of messing up you know and like the I just want to see
people run with scissors more and be less less afraid of you
know I don't know for
you know, aspiration if you tell young people to go ahead and
mess it up before you know what they got a broken femur and
they're sleeping on your couch
I've already got one of those that need even more than
a little bit I've advocated for for live production not not even
live streaming with live life to take forever to it's the way to
go. We haven't really had good tools for that or good education
or etc.
I've always been it's been on my mind because I did so I did what
was it bowls with buds and our bowl after bowl and and then did
behind the schemes last week? A little
overexposed
Dave a lover's have gone for Harvey wants to but the the
whole like I've been getting I've done some of these live
shows. And I see that there's just like a looseness to them
where people don't mind you and making mistakes and now these
you know this shows that have been all I mean, in that I've
done some shows that are also just taped and out under the
last shows share the fun to them where it's this people aren't
you know, it's not so stuffy it just has this like this energy.
I'm really That's why all my shows are live to tape.
Yeah, it really doesn't make a difference. It doesn't make a
difference.
Let me read out any if we can do let me read out a couple of
boosts we've been getting booster grams since we took the
show lit this morning or this afternoon. Well worth
mentioning. Pay tar 250,000 SATs Holy crap. He says upping my
Satish to really appreciate Yeah.
Okay, that's that's is that a
big ball? Are you seeing the boost for today? Well, we're
gonna get 20 blades on the hem ball out just in case.
That is big baller. Yes. Oh, no, no, no. It's actually not. It's
not. Nope, it's not big baller. That's a tease.
Blueberry 10,000 SATs nondescript and inoffensive
boost Thank you. floydian slips says I'm broken. I own myself
bitch with 5200 SATs. Yeah, that's the podcasting. 2.0 thing
thought pattern. Jake from the sleek podcasts 3326 V four v
music. We should talk about that. Brando cellars 5000 sat
boost Thank you row of ducks from Tim the artists formerly
known as mixer happy Fridays. Happy Friday, fellas. Hope you
have a great weekend. Thank you very much. And let's see if we
had some pre pre live boosts I think you'll have those in your
in your run at this one you probably don't have 10,000 from
Macintosh Dave and Adam Thanks for always thanks as always for
everything you do Adam this boost is for my needing to shut
down my voltage notes sorry again about that. Oh, can I get
a little love for my podcast generational wealth with
cryptocurrency that love given? I just posted episode 55 Last
night trying to get the SAT flywheel turning go podcasting?
Yes he he's setting up his own node I think he couldn't justify
the expense of a voltage node. So absolutely. Thank you very
much. So those are just the live boosts?
Yeah, my voltage did the billing on voltage change because I got
a I got an email saying that my credits were running low and I
needed to re credit fill it. Yes. Redis
what credits what kind of what kind of casino is gray and
running over their credit? I
don't know. Because I got a match run up. Personally. Oh my
god damn, I run a 1299 a month. Light No. Right. And then then
as you did always just bills at the beginning of the month.
1299. And then I get this thing saying you're running low on
credits your you need to refill your credit. They will be auto
refilled and then being it paying me for 20 bucks. Oh, man,
I need to check with with Grant sounds
like sounds like inflation to me.
Mega inflation
seems seems to be the thing these days. Yeah. No, I I think
we paid what I know. We paid for the podcast index note upfront.
Yeah, we do that annually. Yeah.
Yeah. And and I have a light note there for Moe facts, which
I guess it's still okay, I gotta check it. And that's kind of the
good thing is and I have to look at that one too much. In fact,
the notes had been pretty good so far. I mean, knock on wood.
What am I doing? Inviting? The man? No, so stupid.
Thanks a lot wrong. I'll be doing this weekend. Okay, we got
the so medium tag, no agenda? No. Agenda two. He also put that
in there. We put in the medium tech. So the medium tech cool.
So it would show up under video, I guess. Yeah. So
killing Ed. That That one is as a medium tag of film. Oh, cool.
Yeah, and there's a there's a so I'll put that up put also this
week support for the medium tag into the index officially now.
It's being ingested through the aggregator. And also, there's
once again, the same way with like with live item. There's one
endpoint is podcast slash buy medium, as the only important
you give it the medium, it'll give you back all the podcasts
that have that medium. Now. And then here, here. Again, this is
another thing that I think we just need feedback on from
everybody in the boardroom as to what? Like how best to structure
this within the API, because the way you know the way you consume
music, and the way you want to find music podcasts, that may
not be the same as it, it may not operate just like a a
podcast app. Yeah. So like, if you just say, because here's I
can think of it this way. Here's one possibility. You replicate
all of So currently, the API is like podcasts slash by Feed URL.
So you can look up a podcast by its URL, right, or podcast slash
by iTunes ID. And you can look it up by that, well, you could
just forklift all that over and say now we have a whole new set
of endpoints called Music by Feed URL, music by ID low
whatever. Or one way to do it,
or just set a parameter music, medium tag equals music and then
perform the rest of the API functions.
That's another way yeah, you just tack them on to the other
stuff. Or a third option is none of the above and, and really the
best way to consume for an app to find these music. These music
entities is some other way that doesn't even fit either one of
those, which is also possible like images. What I would love
is for a music app to say, hey, here's what I want. I want if I
was going to pull data from the index Here's the way I would
want to do it. And then we build it to meet that need. Because
that's essentially what we did for the podcast apps.
Well, this is where I believe discovery is important. Whereas
I don't think it works for podcast, I think music discovery
and just being able to click on stuff and, and get
recommendations, which would not be our job, the indexes job. But
for that kind of, I think, I think it's significantly
different. And maybe there's some some stuff the index should
be feeding back. I don't know. Yet I'm just but I am music app
has to be driven, kind of around two things, your collection of
stuff that you really like that you want to access, again, your
favorites, or whatever you want to call them. And discovery. I
mean, this is where discover, and maybe we'll learn something
in that process that helps for podcasting. Actually,
if you look at a lot of podcast apps like overcast, cast,
ematic, things like that, what you see is they already have
playlist features in there. And you could be me, you can just
imagine that those playlists are just music playlists instead of
podcast playlists.
Well remember, my my dream is I want to play music on my
podcast. And I want to not only be able to pay the artist, a
split, as someone who's listening to their song by
timecode in my podcast, but also, why wouldn't she be able
to immediately access that feed of from that album that that
track is on? Right? Yeah. So there's a log,
it's a chapter link or something like that. Just kick over to the
as an example, as an example. Sure. Or even slicker? I don't
know. You know, add a button, add this song to my playlist.
Yeah, I mean, there's there's different all kinds of different
mediums. There's music, film, video audio book. So I mean, any
one of those could have its so it can have its own structure of
the way that it needs to be, even though they are all very
similar.
I mean, what do you use for your music? Me?
Okay, Spotify.
So does it function the way you would you'd like it to to you is
I mean that, then take that model and say this is this is
the stuff that I use it for? Aren't we are building stuff for
ourselves? We're not building for anybody else.
I have the, you know, I have the music app. And I can see it in
my head. But I guess what do you say? I mean, do you think music
apps? Or only say, say this? Do you think podcast apps would
want to implement a Music Mode? I think they would just want us
try to shoehorn it into the existing user interface.
Well, the question is, will they want to do music at all? That's
the first question. And then I would say no, it doesn't make
sense to shoehorn it into a podcast interface. There's some
differences. I don't know what they are, I'm still waiting for
a big new difference in the podcast apps, although we've
seen some very nice examples. With every app is unique and has
unique features that that are user experience oriented, not
just technical or features, but really, how it functions, how it
works, how you use it. And everyone's idea is different. So
I think the music listening experience and the collecting of
music experience, and the sharing of music experience is
different from podcast. So it would warrant some change in the
existing app. Or, you know, like, curio casts or out hears
music, okay, it's clear to me. Now, it still kind of works the
same. But at least I know what I'm what I'm okay. It's music. I
got it. It's not podcast is music. Right? Even though I
could find them to podcast search? I could find them too.
That makes sense. So I don't think I can answer your question
as to what people want from the API, because it seems like it's
just all the same.
Yeah, yeah. I think we'll figure it out as we go. And I
think all all musicians who put music on podcast and 2.0 should
do them live.
I think that's probably not gonna happen.
Every song should be live. Because you know, Dave likes it.
It doesn't matter if you mess up. Just stop. Pick the song up,
start over again. You know, keep going.
Don't you want to hear Dave Jackson do? Don't you wanna hear
him? Jam live. Great podcast. good guitar player.
You get my point.
I do get your point. The that's what it says what I get for deaf
or daring. Derek
Jarrett? Well, no, no, no. So I think we have most of the pieces
there right now. I'm not quite sure what happened. We were hot
and heavy and discussion. We had Sam means was in any anything
come back from any of those people we? Has anybody looked at
any deeper at the RSS feed?
Yeah. Like Michael. Michael Ray from wave Lake. Okay. Yeah,
he's, he's on the index now. And people Yeah, people are
definitely looking at it. These are people that are new to
what's going on here. Okay. And they
can take it can take a minute or two to get your footing.
Yeah. And so I think I think everybody's just sort of going
through now trying to sort of digest what is going on and get,
get their feet wet. In, in sort of see because it means it's
brand new, really, even though music podcasting has been has
been around. I mean, everybody, clearly people have done it
before, on a limited basis. But now it's sort of like, okay,
let's get serious about this thing. Let's create, let's try
to create infrastructure that will actually enable music
podcasting to be a true alternative to record level
podcasting, or whatever you would want to call that. And I
think in order to do that, that requires people to be careful.
And do it and build it. Build its, you know, Bill, build it
with intentionality. So I think that that's really what's going
on right now is people are trying to figure out okay, what
does this mean? And how do I, how do I take advantage of it in
a way that makes sense? question that I did.
Ice Cube soup in the chat asked the question. Okay. Why why why
are we slowly building via a gradual inevitable accumulation,
a dependency on the central single point of failure isn't
avoiding this the entire point of the podcast and 2.0
initiative?
What is the single point of failure? The API?
I guess? I'm not sure. I'm not sure.
Well, I mean, if if the single point of failure is that he's
talking about is the is the API, then that's there's not a single
point of failure. Because we, I mean, all the API does is
aggregate all the feeds. The feed the this data lives in the
feed, it doesn't live. The it only lives in the API, because
it first lived in the feed. Right? So you can you can go
out, grab our database, pull in that, okay. says yes, the API
and the fact that the index is the only place to use it? Well,
it's the only place to use it now. Yeah, when somebody has to
build the first thing,
here's an idea Ice Cube soup, grab a copy set up a set up
another instance of it.
It's only it only has to be built somewhere so we can figure
out and work out all the bugs. And we're in figuring out how
the thing works. Then, I fully expected that other directories
was in five years, Marc Andreessen will have given
somebody a couple 100 million dollars to take it to take your
code Dave and and, and have no success.
Yeah, that's the Silicon Valley Way.
Yeah, you do all the work, you get nothing. We take money we
give you
know, that's, that's the I mean, this is just this as well.
And to be fair about it, I mean, I My feeling is the backup to
that is hive, it's pod ping, you know, yeah, there's, there's
things about pod ping that or about hive itself that you can
discuss, but doesn't really matter. There's a universal
messaging bus for all podcasts. You can build a podcast app,
just using pod ping. Just using pod ping. Yeah, I mean, like,
and that's truly distributed has all the information, everything
you need to know it's right there. Build your own API.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, we're building the API
exists.
Oh, no, no, no, no. Ice Cube soup wants a Docker image that
it just loads up and everything works. Yeah, I don't think so.
I mean, God, I've got a job. The day job and kids man I get I get
I get time for that. But even
then it's like day that's going to be very limited. I mean,
that's a huge project to do that. Yeah. Well,
I mean, one day, one day it'll,
you'll put 30 aggregators and all this stuff into one big
Docker image. It would just make it a Linux distro.
We we run 20 We run 22 servers. Yeah. That the Um, now, I think
that there's two different things happening here. There's
there's the index, it will this has always been the way it is.
There's the index. And then there's the podcasting. 2.0
project, podcasting 2.0. We're building protocols and forms and
formats and standards, that that's the thing that everybody
can use. You don't need us the index exist, for one reason,
excuse me. Two reasons. It exists number one, to give app
podcast apps a place to hook into to get all their data from
so they don't have to run their own infrastructure so they can
bootstrap and not have to pay a fortune. Exactly. We we help
kickstart podcast apps, they can out and they're very free to
outgrow us in the future if they want to.
And ice cube we do have a link to a copy of the database every
week. It's updated. Yeah, yes. So
yes, that point should be a link. Yeah. A link to the
database is on is on the bottom of the homepage.
Step step two, step two, for only about $100,000 in
donations, Dave could do this full time.
Yeah, that's, that's a smaller area. How about me? How
about this? How about I call mark? And say, give me $100
million? We got a we got a whole thing to do here. Yeah, I'm just
a little. I'm just a little irked by this.
But but the other reason it's, it's helping podcast at
bootstrap for free. And then the second reason is to be is to be
scissors, and have a place where these new things can be explored
and was safely outside of committee. Yeah, exactly. We
build it. And then every look, look at all the people that are
using chapters and transcripts and all that kind of stuff now
and ingesting them. They all every one of those features
started with just the index supporting them. Now, lots of
platforms are supporting them. It radiates out. It'll it'll fix
itself.
Yeah, it'll take a while. It always
at one point in time, Linus Torvalds. was the only person
running Linux.
Yeah. And then once you let it go, what happened?
It it blossomed into a baby.
Oh, is that what happened? Okay. Yeah, I mean that so that? Yes,
that is the point. And maybe maybe we just stop here right
now. And just let's let's thank the people who have supported
the project.
Oh, that foreign Yeah.
Our 12 into the show without a guest that just you and me
talking about trucks and stuff.
It's Thomas flying by a call me midday eating a cherry.
Now that's okay. How cute he's eating a cherry. This is for
those of you who are new. This is a value for value Open
Project, which means anybody can access it. Anybody can join,
anybody can have an opinion. Everybody can contribute. You
can you can use I think all the code or a lot of most of it is
open source. Our stuff certainly is mostly and other apps. And
it's a great community. If you're if you're listening to
the show, you're not on podcast, index dot social, you might want
to follow Adam or Dave there. Or if you want to have an account,
send us an email. And we'll we'll send you an invite, so you
can hop right in. You just heard we've got servers, we've got
infrastructure that we're maintaining. And we need as much
help as possible to maintain that we got liquidity on our
node. We're Bootstrap. You're so right. We're bootstrapping
podcast app developers. We're bootstrapping value for value.
podcasters. And we're really, I think, I think the track is
right here. You know, I'm very proud that we have this
incredible momentum. So much so that, you know, the guys with
hundreds of millions of dollars think oh, man, we can't do
anything until five years from now. You know, and then and then
what? People are going to move? Oh, no, no, not at all. I mean,
the whole infant look at all the hosting companies who are adding
namespace tags. It's really fantastic. And yeah, it's been
we're coming up on two years. But yeah, I mean, it's
surprising how fast this has gone. Really?
Yeah, no, it's going very quick.
So you can go to podcast index.org down at the bottom.
There's a link if you want to give us your Fiat fun coupons.
We do appreciate those. Certainly because people realize
the numbers are the numbers. But of course we also love your
booster grams, your streaming sites, everything and part of
the deal is we thank you when you send something and we thank
you by reading your booster gram or your note Are we sure
do and we got zero Pay Pal weekly donations this week. Pew
pew pew
zero Pay Pal donations. Zero. Okay, well it is
the audit. What do you what you just played as the audio
equivalent of an old man trying to pee in just the stream which
won't get started, you know? Just keep going.
Yeah, well, that's Mitas. So I'm sure I'm sure he's flattered.
Yeah, we got we got zero so okay, that's nice. We got plenty
we got we got plenty. A good list of monthlies, but okay, I
guess I guess the last show was bad. That's the only thing I can
think of.
Well it'll take two more shows to to evaluate. But if people
don't supply the value, then that's very easy. And then in my
mind, they're not getting enough value out of it. So we have to
figure out what provides more value.
So but we do have we do have boosts we have plenty of boosts
Okay. Which is which is good. Yeah, we need Auburn citadel.
49,490 SATs
Nice. Nice. Yes,
he does that a bunch. I'm not he needs to tell us what the
numerology what's the number again for 49,490 49,490? Yeah,
so fell through fountain and he says go podcasting?
Yes. The only thing I could find podcast is the 49 490 heavy duty
air filter.
I'm just gonna stick my neck out and say that's not it.
No, I think you're right.
The I'm doing this actually from mud. The email. Oh,
look at you. Would you like would you like my.mk rc file so
you have all the cool file? I've spent years developing that
thing.
I would actually love that place. That would be amazing.
Like, I want your macros man.
There's a lot of cool macros that I've got in there. Sure.
I'll send that to you. No problem. Yeah, that'd be killer.
I'm gonna drop it in since one of you using mutt what
happened? Since a week ago.
You logged in you know that curries on a something? Let me
try this month thing again.
Here's the here's the funny thing. Is the I use fast mail
for our podcast index.org. I mean mail account, fast mails,
web interface cannot handle emojis. Really, it just doesn't
show them at all. They always come through as like these
weird, like encoding might handle
them perfectly. Well. It's also the terminal you're using.
Yeah, I mean, will fat fast meals web interface? You would
think it could handle an emoji website? I think so. And but but
my command line can handle it better than the website. Yeah.
Maybe they thought you know, fast mail. If we don't render
the emojis. It'll be even faster.
Yes. Yeah, it is faster. So, Mary, Oscar, Oscar, also known
as Oscar Mayer. Yes. And it's 10,000 SATs. Thank you. And he
says, Hey, listen, marry, stop sending test boost from the
dungeon.
That's right. He stopped the one the 10 sat boost and he turned
it in 10,000. Thank you, brother. That's true.
Boost. Yeah. And he's working on some cool stuff, too. Well,
maybe we'll he'll let maybe he'll let us talk about that.
Yeah,
we'll have to have him on if he wants to talk about it. Yeah,
that'd be good. Yeah.
We got Oh, over Citadelle back with 4949 and he says tripping
over scissors.
Scissors sound Dave scissors.
Oh, you got me
run over there and pick them up there and run back. Ah, nice.
Sharp.
Nice and short. I was on the I was on the the polishing wheel
before the ships getting them all fired up. So Karen mere
mortals 9090 s s through curio caster. A friend asked me the
other day. Why I dislike Spotify so much. I can. I can hear his
friends say Hey Karen, what do you dislike Spotify so much? And
he says I stuck with the advertisements and the dodgy
marketing practices. But this episode has added a whole new
set of weapons to the arsenal. Chatting with Sir Spencer on
mere mortals has also made me super excited about
decentralized music and the coming demise of the music
tyranny
he's optimistic that chyron is but yes that is the idea and I
there's no reason we can do it at all greed. Just need to need
to jump in. Build some apps and stuff.
Dion as soon as 999 sets and he or she says uh Hello creator
reaching out how you doing booster?
Hello creator Hello booster.
See Steven B. I think this is this may have been during the
show he says hey guys, I wish there was a way to for fans to
reach out to their favorite creators. Yes. Let's see what my
I'm out of out of sequence here. Oh, here we go. This is the
danger of mud. Okay, so value for value no add freedom boost
from Georgia or well 1111 Boost. Thank you. Thank you George. I'm
wondering and I'm so out of whack you're not?
I mean what is it is definitely for the experienced. So if
you're if you're experiencing some issues,
so here's my experience. Here's what I expected to experience. I
expected to experience that when I hit the down arrow key. I go
to the next email but that's not what
oh, you need to hit J J. K JK brother J K not down arrow down
arrow takes you to a whole nother thing. That yeah, okay,
so and if you want to read more, it's the return key.
Oh, of course it is.
Why are you laughing at me? Why are you laughing?
I'm laughing It must because you know everybody would expect that
that go to the next email you would hit j would ever think
that that's the case. Okay. All right.
Hold on. I gotta do Here you go.
Knock it off. Shut up. Shut up. So the answer is another one. He
says 909 SS he says juicy.
Okay, okay. Juicy indeed.
Kaspi lintas and 7380 sets and he's through fountain. He says
okay, okay, Bitcoin is low. Double boost. Keep keep
promoting the only fan. Keep Whoa. Oh, that's SSE. Keep
promoting the only fans girls. One day, one day, one day, I can
directly boost them just for that just for their ads. And how
could their profile? Haha, sorry, I can handle Jensen.
Maybe look into his work one day. One day again. Thanks for
the word is is he talking about the Jenson podcast? Yes. Yeah.
Okay. Is that a well known podcast? And
oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, very well known and very polarizing.
And was it Pete who posted a short audio of his test his
first test of the road caster pro mark two, I think. And I
didn't see that. Yeah. And he said that there seems to be some
latency. He says, I hear my voice like a little bit later.
I'm like, that doesn't make any sense. That's bad. That's very
bad. If there's actual latency, like he demonstrated something
like Oh, I'm gonna send it back if it has that, apparently is
running on Linux. The whole thing.
Ah, okay. Surprise me. Man. That would be a deal killer. Oh,
yeah. See, we got to wait, hang on a second. Hang on a second
timeout stops show starts.
Okay. Well, no, this is what you like. Right. So you like it when
people mess up?
No, I mean, like, for real start the show because my kids just
started playing drums.
Okay, we will temporarily pause. Alright, so So now wait a
minute. This is this is the one with the broken femur. Yeah,
he's back on the drums already.
Yeah, he is. Now he's in physical therapy. He's doing
good. Oh,
well, I'm happy to hear that because I was kind of thinking
about that. It's like, you know, she got stuff messed up. I don't
know what that's like to get back behind the drums.
Yeah, when he first did it it scared me to death. I was like,
Oh my God. What do you do is like no, it's fine. It feels
fun. Okay, all right.
That wasn't my drumstick did crack dad.
Yeah, all right as else in your dream the donation no and I hear
Funkmaster J up there.
That's all right. We barely heard it.
Oh, yeah. Niall sent us five sets who
know what the hell are you doing?
Is his message says boost with an exclamation point. That
doesn't fit. No, it doesn't take the exclamation point
away. Yes. That's your boost right there.
Cole McCormick send us 333 says and he says waiting for found to
lit it up. I want to listen live. Okay. Well,
I I'm pretty sure is being worked on.
User. Here's here's a boost from user 706-512-3838 six to six.
Yes says it's 500 SAS and he says from your friends at is
issue u.com issue UISU e y o u.com I mean this is just gonna
like Take Over is this because this
spam buffer overflow month but I S you
ISU e one s? Yeah?
I sue you. It's not issue. It's I sue you dot o
u.com.
Let's see what. Okay, I went to ICU su u.com And it gives me
nothing.
It's a parked domain. Yeah. It's pretty.
Okay. All right. Thanks. Thanks for wasting our time. Yeah,
thanks users Evernote for whatever. See Mike comes in with
5678. Dave didn't know j&k Were down and up and mutt. Those two
keys do the same thing and fast mail. Dave needs remedial email
training. Wait a second. See Mike is always going oh, they
do? It's the universal Unix way. Brother.
J and K. is universe not? For what?
For up and down? It's H for left J for down k for up Alpha.
Right. Where have you been?
Clearly not clearly not on the command line.
I think it's isn't this the same in VI as well? Yeah, it's the
same in VI Wow, use VI. Well, new I'm an emacs guy now.
Oh, are you converted to you know?
Yeah, I've been I've been using emacs for months.
Oh, well, I and I
like it because I started with the GUI client. So if you don't
know a command, you can go to the menu bar and find it and
then you do that three times. And then you remember the
shortcut.
I've had a hotkey awakening. Alright. 150,000 SATs from Chad.
Pharaoh is boosting the dip.
Whoa, hello. Oost. Thank you.
So you drop an extra pinion there
was a set. Toshi Satoshi
is one of those big coins with the B on it. By the way, see on
Twitter,
I use I have one of those that I went back the other day because
I had it in like a humidor box that I've had in the closet for
years. Like, look at that things. Don't tell me that.
Maybe there's like that, that someone gave that to me? What if
there's an actual Bitcoin in there? What if it's like a
private key or seed seed? Seed words on the coin? I went back
and I studied Oh, no. Okay. No
x x ray, maybe it's on the inside. I've been using
rain loop recently for web based mail because I have to use some
web mail. Rain loop is very cool. It's just a it's a it's a
web shell that runs and it connects through IMAP to any
email server. And it also has shortcuts.
Are they? Okay? Well, interestingly,
no. Interestingly, they're not. Yeah, I'm very disappointed by
that. They have a down arrow. It's like, Oh, come on, guys.
But I've sent the developers notes. Can we put the j&k in
there?
Well, I didn't, I would have put that into the river navigation
years ago if he had told me in free controller.
Well, the river navigation is also nice because you hit right
arrow, it goes to the next item, you hit down arrow, it goes to
the next feed. Yes. See this. I now as a human have a map of all
these key key shortcut shortcuts of all different apps. I think
you're a savant when it comes to shortcut keys. No lobby you you
know, shortcut hotkeys for so many different apps
because it's so much faster than moving the mouse?
Yeah. And so I got I try to learn them but I have no
capacity to remember them all.
It's like Hindenburg which is the I love Hindenburg editing
software. Eight Now interesting. Lee it uses J K L. So L is I
can't do an obviously I'm recording on it is to just play
forward and you let go the L it stops you can hit spacebar and
it plays. But if you press L and K then it'll triple the speed so
you can rock through it. You can rock to a spot or J for for
backwards and the add the K and it speeds up. So yeah, I mean, I
love these things. It's just so it makes life so much easier.
Thank you Chad Pharaoh for boosting the dip with 150,000
Cool man. Chad Pharaoh again 3333 through fountain and he
says this shit is lit
yes It is up
Nomad Joe since 2000 SATs through fountain and he says
Spotify who floydian slips flooding slips through fountain
nice and is 4567 SAS and he says advertising podcasting for value
podcast one idiots attempt at starting a value for value
podcast going into 3333 sets from Carolyn and Carolyn through
esfri. Through curio caster, Carolyn says the safest podcast
that runs with scissors boost boost boost. Blueberry says
11,111 SATs through fountain and he says, What have you been most
grateful for during the build of podcasting? 2.0?
What have you been most grateful for? What have you been most
grateful for?
Hmm, I think it's like everything else in life, I
think. I think the thing I'm always most grateful for no
matter what you get involved in, it's just the relationships that
you end up building with people. Not purely the friendships and
stuff and the relationships but but the nature of the working
relationship where you've you learned that you can, you know,
work with somebody to build something new and to create
something new, I think. I think you learn things about each
other and about yourself. I think it's just the I think it's
the metaphysical part of it more than just the actual building of
it. But I mean, when you stand back, of course, you know, I'm
proud of the work but his face, the question is, what are you
most grateful for? I would, I would say, just the shared work
itself.
I agree. I also like that in 20 years, we can all look back and
we'll say we did that. Yeah, yeah. And everybody and every,
every single person who works on this project was I was a part of
that. And it is my true belief that the work we are all doing
is very important. It's really important for I'm just gonna go
there for the future of the world. And when you when you
hear how stuff is being clamped down, and just you can't talk,
no, we are we are the resistance. Viva la revolution.
That's right. Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Because I think I
firmly believe like what we talked about at the beginning
that
or as Dave from x 22 says, I do believe, I do
believe that when whose hit the tide is going to turn at some
point, and it's going to complete we're going to have
given these tools to all the wrong people to a bunch of
douchebags who think that we are the dead that that humanity is
stupid, and they're the smart ones. And that that thing's
gonna flip and it's gonna bite everybody in the rear. And at
that moment, everybody's gonna be very thankful that we built
that we built also an open safety valve. Yep. Yeah.
The revolution here it is. The revolution will be lit.
Oh, I like it. That's a t shirt. That's a T that's a good t you
know what we need we Podcast Movement. When we go there in
Dallas, we're going to need to take some T shirts with us
probably. Or some stickers or something.
And we'll exchange those for sexual favors.
You what you do in your own time is your business. So we're
sharing a room Dave I don't know what you're talking about.
My job is my business. Day se Macintosh sent us 10,000 SATs
and he says can I get a little love for my podcast generational
wealth with cryptocurrency
boost? Yeah,
I just posted episode 55 Last night I'm trying to get the set
flywheel turning go podcasting?
Yes, that's the one I think we network I think we hit the live
booster Graham's there.
This one was from June 17 at 11:35am. Ah
okay. That was a pre appreciate booth re lit.
Okay, I know you don't have this one. Dr. Dub 300,000 SATs.
Is this the one I hit the button for?
Yes. Follow
shot caller 20 blades on him. Paula. Holy crap. Thank you.
from Robert. See, this is from Robert Wiley. Thank you all.
Thank you for all you're doing I've posted what I've learned
from this podcast, sir Spencer and Josh chin on the website.
Music casting.org
onboard musicians Yeah, looking at that this morning. It's very
cool.
I printed it out and I had it in my notes talk about today.
I put it in the show notes music casting.org Okay.
It includes links to my four albums and a lecture on how
podcasting 2.0 and value for value offer new New
Opportunities for musicians.
Oh is like a why is this? Why does this keep ringing here? Oh,
it's ring I see. I'm sorry, is ringing here. Let me stop this
Oh, it's someone's calling me on signal and I saw the phone pop
up and I'm like, Why do I hear it on my computer door because I
had signal open on my computer. That's why
I should read that note again. Yes, please do. Yes, it's from
Robert Wiley 300 1000s as is what he gave us and he says,
Thank you for all you're doing. I've posted what I've learned
from the, from this podcast, sir Spencer and Josh chan on the
website music casting.org to help onboard musicians. It
includes links to my four albums and a lecture on how podcasting
2.0 and value for value offer new opportunities for musicians.
I'm going to put in music casting, use it to CS music
casting.org I
think it is yes, music.
Yeah, I'm gonna put I'm gonna put that in the show notes. What
is this? This, by the way is the stuff that makes it work. You
know, thinking that you're going to do it with a marketing
department or anything like that. It's not how it works.
This is this. We need the people. The people need to stand
up and do this.
We should have them on the show.
Okay, let's do it.
Why not? All the meat we need we need to pull all the music guys
in on the show.
Okay. It's important.
Thank you, Robert. Really appreciate that. Marlon, sent us
through fountain sent us 11,000 SATs and he says Dave is a
chubby guy in my mind. Okay. I'm husky.
Let me see. That's wrong, bombshell. No.
Yeah. That's it's just quite wrong. No. Comic Strip blogger
the delimiter 15,033 sets. Comic Strip. Comic Strip, comic strip
comic. Con extreme comic strip strip. singalong comic strip.
We'll give him some props. He's been supporting the show every
single episode.
Greetings from Eurotrash continent to podcasting. 2.0
team
Hello Euro trash continent.
Dave Jones, your trash incontinent these Dave Jones and
AC is podcast index.org ESG compliant. Are we are with ESG
comply think we are?
No, we would lose on a lot of fronts where we win on the
saving the Earth with POD ping. We totally lose due to lack of
diversity.
Unless you were just two white dudes. There
you go.
Yeah, there you go. And I also have two trucks that combined
for a total of less than 30 miles per gallon.
We're sure really a very bad man.
Yes. Anyways, Episode 33 of our podcast AI dot cooking about
artificial intelligence is dropping this Monday. Oh, you
don't say it is spoken by Gregory William Forsythe Foreman
from Kent
also known as growth. Notes I was I was informed that people
keep saying GW F F now it's gruff. It's just go off. Okay,
cool.
Okay, is spoken by gwass gruff so you're welcome to relish it
yo.
That's right. Let me hand out a boost maybe one of the
Thanks, everybody. Pop you heard from Fauci is popping off a can
of restless relish. So you can relish it.
Are you eating relish now after your cherry? No. Just trying to
understand your diet. Dave.
I have pita chips. Yeah, I have. So by the time I get home from
my lunch fro so I leave the office at 12 Get here if 1215
start the show at 1230. So my lunch usually consists of a
plate of stuff I can rapidly grab out of the fridge and dump
onto a single plate on the way into the podcast. I
gotcha brother. I gotta listen to the podcast booth.
Yes. Thank you everybody has
any any monthly pay close? Yeah, yeah, but hopefully we had some
monthly pay pals.
No, we get some monthly. We're good. Terry Keller $5 are in car
and hugger Miller $5 Chris cow and $5 Jeffrey Rutherford. $5.
Jeremy Kevin not in dollars. Alex gates, the podcast
consultant $25 Thank you our calls. Paul Saltzman $22.22.
Thank you, Paul. Hey, pal, ducks. Is that a is that Sir
Paul?
There's still a couple of Sir Paul's, but it could be. I don't
I don't remember.
Damon Castle Jack the $15 David Norman. He have a picture studio
is $25 Derek J. Vickery. $21. Thank you, Derek. Jeremy guards
$5 Thomas Sullivan, Jr. $5, Timothy Hudgens, my buddy $25.
And David would find $3. That's
all right, everybody, thank you so much. Again, value for value.
Whatever you get out of the project, whatever you get out of
the podcast, just assign a number to it, and send that in,
keep the project going, please, so we don't have to go begging
at Marc Andreessen store. Although that would make
everybody really rich. I just want to point it out again. I'm
gonna keep I'm gonna keep pestering with this
spec spec. And
we're going for a spec full on spec. Now really, really
appreciate it. Of course, we we'd like time, talent and
treasure. So even if you're not participating in sending value
through treasure, time and talent are highly appreciated. A
lot of people do a lot of great things for podcasting. 2.0 Even
just telling people about it is incredibly helpful. evangelizing
please and and let us know if you need any help. How can we
help evangelize? We'll get our marketing team on it right away
to podcasting index.org down at the bottom. You can also send on
chain Bitcoin, which one set up? No one has done. It's always
Hey, man, hey, man, if only you set up an on chain, Bitcoin
donation QR code I could donate, but since you didn't, and then
you do it and then you never hear from him again. Let me go,
let me check the tally coin. I didn't actually check that.
Let's see.
In that way, it always goes like a man if you would only do so
and so I would do I would, you know I would get involved or
help out and then you do and they never show.
It's always well, with no agenda. What we've learned is
there is a category of people it's not big, but they're around
and it goes like this. They're always I was going to donate but
you said something that really pissed me off. This happens all
the time. Well, I can't donate now. I was contemplating how
much to send. Now I'm thinking should I send anything at all?
I had my finger over the mouse. Close.
A couple of bladed lit boosts booster Graham from Mitch from a
pod verse. He's got a full on row of ducks 22,222 Looking
forward to seeing you all the Podcast Movement Dallas, I might
need a new podcasting 2.0 t shirt because I don't fit in the
small anymore. Oh, welcome to independent development. Mitch.
That's exactly what happens. Welcome to Working from
home with all that Russ wood all that ramen and snickers bars
and see Mike 1768 SATs blowing the balance of my curio caster
SATs wallet. Fo Yes. And he says Marco Colin. I am impatiently
awaiting the addition of more podcasting 2.0 features in
overcast and I'm willing to test the alphas and betas if you
needed a human listener to help with QA and UA t tests I cannot
wait to boost the boardroom chat from overcast go podcasting I
don't think about value for value boosting from overcast
anytime soon market doesn't seem to I don't think he's interested
in that at this at this point in time. But
other features yeah other features for sure. Yep. Is that
it? We got it because I want to talk about something I did for
this a lot of no agenda to work because Alex was busy this week
adding features to in a tube and one thing that's been an issue
has been adding value blocks people claiming it in their
podcast wallet but yes did not support email. Yes. Well now.
Now he supports email but it brought up so that's that's a
soft issue. But now it brought up this other question. And it
goes like this al Alex and provides a service that is
bandwidth and processor intensive video transcoding
video, live streaming, video storage. So appear to denseness
is not a cheap thing to run and operate. Clearly. If you get any
popularity at all, you could be looking at quickly hundreds up
into the you know For five digits a month, if you don't
keep a check on it, so it brings up this idea of if I'm taking,
let's just make a song about it, no agenda tube itself. So takes
a slim put a bunch of videos on there. Well, if Texas slims
videos get very popular, and a lot of people start watching
them. Then Alex is serving the bandwidth. And let's just
imagine that Texas slim now takes him did put value bike in
there, but let's just say he did. If they, if this happens in
somebody's in a bunch of videos gets popular and website gets
popular and there's no value for value in it in the in the
creators don't put value for value blocks in their feeds,
then, then there would be no opportunity for streaming sets
for Alex. Correct. So what I did was as an experiment was put in,
we're trying to devise this solution. And the ultimately
what we wanted to do is be something like like a dot well
known URL. So that no agenda so that when when the index sees a
video, have no agenda coming from no agenda tube.com. When it
sees that as the feed URL source, it could go and check at
nogen to.com/dot. Well, dash known slash, some URL, in where
we're at this special URL, the owner of nodes in the tube.com,
would then have constructed a way to tell podcast platforms
and an app such as the index, did they want to get this
particular percentage of a fee? So then the index with that, in
begin to add a podcast, a value block to every video that is
served. Every video we know about from no agenda tube.com
begin to add a value block in there that only has a fee
percentage for no agenda tube.com. So essentially, these
are value blocks without the creator in it. And the reason,
and it's a direct funding for the platform serving the video,
rather than the Creator.
And you want you want the index to insert that. That split.
Yes. Like it's we're doing it now as just a way to test this
whole thing out. And so my question is, so like, right now,
if you go to Alex's live let me see if he's on there. Well, he's
got he's got a variable X set up, let me know what Texas slam
may not let me look at beef initiative.
No, I don't
know. Thanks. Okay, go look for bait search for beef initiative
and podcast index. And you'll see that the only split in there
because he never claimed he has not yet claimed the podcast and
wallet for
yeah, there's this. This is not the best example. The Texas slim
feed. Okay. Because they may have a whole bunch of reasons
for that. Okay, there's a million people have been
managing this stuff and it was claimed incorrectly and let me
see if initiative. Alright. Yeah. Right. So yeah, I see it.
Well. So here, here's my here's, here's my, my initial response
to what is happening. I think it's a bad idea for podcasts
index to be inserting anything.
Okay. Why is my question the ethics of this and all the
things
why doesn't know agenda? So, for my money, I would say if you
want to host on podcast index, here's the deal. Your feed will
include a split for no agenda to whether you claim your wallet or
not. Whether you are doing value for value or not, and he can
insert that into the feeds he creates. And and I presume,
well, I mean, it just comes down to how he wants to run that.
Breeze is an interesting example, where you cannot get
any old podcast and breeze it has to be value for value
enabled. Why wouldn't you say hey, you want to you want to use
no agenda tube, then you have to have a wallet. You have to have
it enabled. And, and the no agenda tool needs to take this
percent. Why? Why would any freebies in?
Yeah, that's kinda though that's yeah, that was the old screw the
whole thing screw that no freebies but but it shouldn't be
the feed should be the source of truth shouldn't be the feet. I
seems. Technically I understand why it makes sense to do it this
way. I think it puts us in the spot we may not want to be in.
So that that was we'll see. Think about it, though. Okay, I
think I may, we may have missed this, this part is that this is
not. Yes, you could put it in the feed. But here the the other
way that we thought about doing it was that no agenda tube.com
creates the file in the dot well known, say expressing to all
platforms that whenever that platform supports value for
value, that what they want is a 1% split or whatever this, you
know, 20% or whatever this thing is, so that we are we are
getting the information from the platform. It's not coming to the
feed, but we're still not just making it out willy nilly like,
Yeah,
but it's, but you can't, but it's not the source of truth. We
have one source of truth. Feed, why can't just be put into the
feed?
It could I could, I could, if you. I can see, I guess he
dropped. It could in this instance, because there is a
feed. I can imagine things in the future of other value for
value things that aren't feed based.
What I mean, I'm just pushing back, because you know, this is
just as
good, it's good.
I might have to think about this a little bit more. But it just
seems like why why would anyone trust us? I mean, of course,
we're, we're good guys. But why would anyone trust us to be
determining predetermining splits? And then, and then we're
gonna have to do it for everybody else. Because we can't
just say, Oh, no, that's only for NA, too. Well, I want to
have a 10% automatic split put in and I want to,
we'll see. Okay, so here's, here's the thinking that
originates this thing is that, and I know you agree with this,
that the platform needs to get paid to whether or not the
creator gets paid, the platform can independently make a
decision. They want to they want to make a value for value play
themselves. Sure. And so since I've chosen to upload my video
content, to put it to your video, your videos are
awesome.com that, that me entitles that, you know that I'm
making that agreement with them that they can they can do their
own thing in there, man, I'm just using their platform. So
they want those. So you're you know, you're also videos.com
wants to make a value for value play for themselves. And they
need to be able to express in some way to the world that they
would they would like to cover their costs is 20% is a 20% fee.
And so if it's in the feed, if they are a service,
let's just distinguish split or fee, because that's two
different things. And we need to be very clear. So that's on top
of everything else a 20% fee. Fee. Yes. So and so not a part
of the split, it's a 20% fee.
Right? So it's a it's a it's a fee split. It's exactly what
podcast index does through our API, we add
a whole bunch like because there's there's a fee, there's
the g of a split of the 100%. And there's a fee, which is
charged on top of the 100%. Right, this is a fee. This is a
fee on top of the 100%.
Well, it's in this here, well, here's the thing going going
back to this example of a video that exists exist on on this
service, that doesn't have a value that where the Creator has
never put in a value block.
i Yes, I understand. I'm just saying there's a difference
between a 20% split in the value block and a 20% fee. Because
that is technically I if I understand it properly. That is
technically something different in value for value. Yes. So why
a fee of 20% onto half of whatever the Creator asks or
doesn't ask at all versus, hey, if you're not interested, I'm
taking 100%. If you're interested, we need minimum 20.
If not get off have no agenda tube.
I think it's because of the expectations of the way. Because
what what it is, is a fee. It's not a share of the revenue. Like
when you say I want to take a split, that implies that the
Creator has something to do with it. If you're taking a fee, as a
fee for the service, I think it's a matter of like, language
around the whole thing of doing it. Because because they end up
being the same, like a 20%. If you take a 20% split, and that's
the de facto standard for that service, the 20% split, and a in
a fee of 20%. Or it's gonna get you the same thing. But it's,
it's more appropriately a fee than a split. Because using the
service, the service is charging a fee for the usage of the
service. Or asking for a fee, not charging, but asking for a
fee. Okay. I think ultimately, it ends up being the same, but
the fee wording is seems more
appropriate. Well, the reason it's not the same is it's one
thing to use an app and get four or 5%, as a user, as a listener,
or a viewer is another than like, Well, wait a minute, this
is 20% more than I sent. I mean, that's, I don't know, maybe
that's just semantics for right now. Because we're still at the
should notice, should the index be maintaining this information?
And how do we where's our source of truth? We have to call up
Alex, is it still 20%? What if he, I mean, he he'll know
its dynamic is to see in this with the dot well known and like
said, This is just This is all just batting ideas around. The
dot well known thing, he controls it, so at any moment,
he can change it himself. The next time we check it, we'll see
the change and adjust our feet and adjust what we put back in.
And, yes, see, it's we're never it's never a manual process.
It's, it's him setting the thing, just like it's just
worse, just like Ellen URL, where you hit the you hit the
web, you hit the dot well known and it dynamically creates a
creates a an invoice for you. Except in this instance, we hit
the dot well known every let's just say every 10 minutes and
see that, oh, the fee has changed. And now we start
serving a different fee for the for everything on this platform.
May not be a good idea. But well, how
does podcasts index? Where do we get? Is our fee hard coded in?
Our fee is always been hard coded at 1%?
Yeah, but who's who takes it out?
I don't know. It's honor system. It's, uh, anybody can do it. If
they don't even have to, then you have to do we just ask for
it.
Right? We asked for it. But when the API serves it up, if someone
doesn't, if someone has changed their value block in their feed,
they can take us out?
No, no, we always we insert ourselves into it no matter
what. If they have us in it, we don't insert ourselves. If they
don't have us in it, we insert ourselves a 1%. And that's, so
it's just a diff. It's a difference between like, like
no, no agenda to may not be the, the perfect example. Because
you're right, he could just put a fee split in himself in the
XML. But you can imagine scenarios where there would be
other services, or maybe somebody just goes straight to
the page, or views the video. Maybe they just get a link to
the direct link to the mp4 and they never see the feed. There's
all these scenarios you can think of in the value for value
future where a dot well known address to express a fee is
would be helpful.
But it doesn't make any difference if you just go to the
to the website and you're playing without a value enabled
player doesn't matter. Who's poor. No one pays for it then.
Yeah, but imagine a volume that enabled me to imagine imagine
get out be Yeah. So get get lb you have the extension in your
browser. And you go and watch a video on no agenda tube.com with
a direct link to the mp4. There's no possibility to have
any metadata in that video that it would express that. But what
if there's a dot well known URL scheme that would express this
this desire to to get Albea dot extension and get ABI check that
every time it goes to a URL, it could check with the service and
say, Hey, do you do you watch? What's your fee rate? And then
it could display to the user watching the video, you know,
hey, this service,
right, but you could get that from that feed as well. And if
we, if we got a theme of fear, that's my problem.
Yeah, well, my good Alby example, just second ago, there
was no feed and there was no feed. It's a direct link to the
mp4. So imagine our signals are good. And so I understand.
But I still don't understand why, why this has why this,
there's, I'm not understanding what I think I'm hearing is you
want to make sure Alex gates doesn't get screwed on bandwidth
costs, I want to make sure that we're not trying to do stuff to
wrangle that into, you know, hosting is a very, very, very
complicated business. For exactly these reasons. I don't
know if what you're proposing is going to solve this problem.
I'm, I'm making it confusing, because I'm really talking about
multiple things at once. So that you're correct. The first thing
I'm talking about is that I don't want to see Alex get
screwed, or Alex or anybody else that runs a service like this,
get screwed because people begin to use their service. And it
gets popular, but most of them are not doing value for value. I
want them. People like Alex that run these services, to be able
to do their own value for value, no matter no matter what they
create. So
the first thing I would do is I would shut down the web access.
Because what's going to happen is exactly what already is
happening is Oh, free service. Let me upload my shit here.
That's exactly what happens. So and why because oh, look, I can
watch it here. And I can watch my live stuff here. First thing
I do is, Hey, you want to watch these videos. This is for
podcasting. 2.0. Here's how it works. Every feed has a x
amount, 20% fee, whatever you want to call it. And if if you
don't want to receive your value for value, no problem we'll take
we'll take our 20% and we'll take all 100% or whatever you
want. Here's how you adopt adopted, here's how you get a
wallet. Here's how you do all these other things. We've got to
stop the free loading, the freemium, the free loading
stuff, that's for advertising, if he wants to do advertising,
then you can give stuff away for free. There's no free lunch. So
I don't even think he should have the web interface open
right now at all.
Well, I mean, that's that's one approach. But then you but
there's still, there's still the idea. There's still the idea of
if I just take a direct link to the mp4 video and send you a the
URL and you open it in your browser, your browser is going
to play it No, I understand. But then there's no, there's
literally no way to find out what the value
from value is not just a technology, it's a programming
concept. It's a monetization model, you have to explain it to
your audience, you have to get the audience to play along. You
can't just say, Okay, we've we've locked it all down, it's
going to work, it won't work.
Well, if that's the case, then it won't work for platforms at
all.
Well, depends on what you mean, by platform,
we'll have a service like no genitive, if, but because No, no
genitive can't express within the content that that idea?
Well, okay, but what you're saying is, there's, there's a
percentage of people who listen to this very podcast on a
webpage on a shitty web page that comes out of my freedom
controller, and they just hit the play button there and
they're not contributing anything. Right? I mean, that's
going to be 96 to 98% of all people. Right? So that's the
numbers that a service or platform is going to be playing
with. Right? So the first the
first thing that's what I'm that's what I'm saying we need
to capture
to be you. So you What do you want to capture if someone
downloads the mp4? Understand, how would I want?
Yeah, what I want there to be a way to do is to express is to is
for the service or the platform to express directly that there
is a value for value option. And that would be that would have to
be done through something like this, since there is no feed in
that scenario. So that extent browser extensions and other in
other platform technologies have a way to get that information
that value for value information. There's not since
there is no fee,
why is there no fee feed? When every single? Why does it why
doesn't just every everything on no agenda tube have a feed? Why
wouldn't every account have a feed? I don't understand.
It does. But if somebody goes and clicks on the link, like
you're talking about on the webpage, and that link happens
to go to no agenda tube, not to the no agenda to web web player,
but the no agenda to mp4 directly.
Yes. I understand that. So how does how does that get paid for?
That's what I'm trying to solve.
I don't understand how you're doing it. So I have a direct
link to an mp4 to download it, which may or may not be
something a lot of people do, I don't know, sounds like
something someone would do if they want to circumvent
providing value. Then how how do you express that so that there's
a fee, I don't understand
that you take your value block. And this is the idea. This is
the dot well known idea, you take the value block converted
into something, you express it as JSON or some a note some
format, or he could save an XML and XML and you put it at no
agenda tube.com/dot Well known slash value for value. And it's
a file that lives there. Now every time let's just use the
idea of the get Alby extension, every time I go, and I watch a
video on no agenda to.com Whether it's from a direct link
to the media file, or on the web page or anything like that. The
extension since it's a standard, the extension knows to check, no
agenda two.com/well known slash value for value.
Okay, so this is this is really trying to help out by giving
Alby something to use when there's no feed. Yes, that's not
podcasting.
Oh, yeah, no, but I mean, there's an Yeah, that's what I'm
saying. I'm saying two different things. I mean, there's the idea
of trying to help out services within podcasts, then there's
also this bigger idea of trying to have a way that value for
value can be expressed beyond just podcasts.
Okay, thank you. That was the lead that I didn't understand.
I'm all for that. But it's not a feed. It's not podcasting. And
we have to question what we're doing. Because if we're now are
we if we're going to be an index for value for value for all
types of other platforms and services, very interested in it,
but it's not podcasting?
I won't. This is this was an interesting experiment between
between me and Alex. And I think that, you know, his main his
user base and stuff is so small that it's, it's fine. It's okay
to do this and play around. But, you know, if if this did involve
a, if this did evolve into a standard? I could see us. I
mean, it wouldn't make sense to support it if it was a known
standard. Just like your URL and URL or anything like that. Do
you agree with that? Or no.
I mean, so I would love the value for value standard to be
exactly that the value for value standard. And I think it's
totally relevant to figure out a way to do that. But it's not
podcasting, podcasting. And I just got to be militant about
it, from my opinion. It's the feed the feed is the source of
truth. So it's okay that we can do other things to solve, but
it's literally pulling people away from podcasts, and we want
to bring them into apps. It's giving them a way to go outside
of apps. And I understand I mean, that for 15 years, I've
been doing value for value, maybe 4% actually contributes
value back the rest. Just take and don't give anything that
That's the fact. We push a lot of data every single week and we
pay for it, you know, we have a fixed price, because of the
crazy cash CDN that we use, which is basically part of the
downside. So you know, setting up a platform for value for
value is very interesting to me. Or, or making something that
that enables value for value. Outside of podcast apps for
platforms, it's of course, I'd love to see that I think it's
way off mission for us. Okay, I'm not saying we shouldn't do
it. I just haven't been convinced what when, when we're
doing things outside of a feed then We really do lose the
source of truth that everybody can take a look at. You know, I
can go to an RSS feed, I can see exactly what's going on. If it's
now an API. It just I don't know, it just doesn't feel
right. I understand where it's coming from, though. I really
do. Because I also want video to work. And I don't want anyone I
want Alex to make money. But anybody who provides this, but I
just don't know if this is the if this is the thing that
podcasts and 2.0 should be doing. Or the pot pot, let me
put it this way, if that should be folded into podcast index.
Right. Because I'd rather have get Alby, you know, be used in
an app. Yeah, it can I
understand. I understand that. Yeah. Yeah, I'll take it. I
think there's, there's some because we did you know, because
we do, we do things that are not always in the feed.
Such as
their whelming everything with with LM pay, and, you know, and
all
that, but the value block is, okay, well, technically, you're
absolutely right, when it comes to when it comes to value block,
but I think ultimately, we'd really love for, for a whole
bunch of reasons for that to also be reflected in a feed. And
not not just something that we store, that's a shim. And now we
have another shim for something that it's actually not even a
shim. It's, that's maybe whip so my objection comes from. It's
not a shim until the rest of the world has value blocks in their
feed. There's no feed. Right? It's now just doing an
individual content. I don't know. All of a sudden, it
sounded like a business to me.
Just it's a good discussion. And that's why I wanted Yes. Well, I
wanted to bring it up to you. Because there's, there's
obviously ethics involved in any ethics, don't trouble me to the
ethics Don't trouble me too much. Because, again, I mean,
value for value is always voluntary. It's completely
voluntary. And if, if there's an extension in your browser that
pops up and says, Hey, this video, you know, this nogen tube
supports value for value, do you want to give them a fee for
watching this video? To me, there's nothing wrong with that.
No, no, it's not wrong at all. But the difference is, it's not
necessarily a podcast. Yeah. So it's a value for me, dude, we
can tomorrow, we can start a value for value index. I mean,
that's, that's a great idea. But I think I think there'll be very
few platforms that will that will do this. And I still think
there's some, there's some we need to think through what
exactly the way I know agenda tube started as a an alternate
place, you can upload some videos, and it's all kind of low
usage. Then we started talking about using the video aspect for
podcasts. And, you know, we know how the monetization for that
works. But now, it's now we're talking about value for value
enabling platforms. I don't know if we want to be a part of that.
I don't know that we want to be a part of that either. I'm not
going to disagree with that at all. I guess I see it as part of
the work. I see us being associated with things like this
with ways to push these things forward. Because we are you know
we're just like we're involved in Alan Yarrow and trying to
make that better with in more supportive of value for value
and increase and and we're, you know, we're involved in a lot of
things outside of just purely podcasting, just because they
are sort of tangential to the whole idea of a value for value
world and stopping all the free loading. So I can see as being
okay, value for value does not stop all the freeloading ever.
Again, the numbers are 4%
Right. We want the free. idealistically we want the
freeloading to stop. Free loadouts are
right but we can only stop the free loading in in the podcast
realm. I don't know. I, I can't say one way or the other, it
just doesn't feel right. We're always talking about the source
of truth. And now we've just removed the source of truth and
said, Okay, we'll do this for anything. Oh, yeah. I guess we
just it just seems outside of our scope. That's all when
there's no feed, your anything could be, you know, me. You can
put almost anything. You got an escort service, put something
put make some content, and do whatever you want to do. That's
a podcast.
Yeah. 100%? No, believe me. I, I agree with you on on the fact
that as the index and add as podcast index, our focus is
podcasts. And that that's where we that's the domain we stay in.
My only my only thing is that we also are involved in other
things by by association. I mean, the same reason we go and,
you know, attend the lightning labs roundtable. Sure, sure. Of
course, but and we're involved in Alien URL L in URL. I mean,
that has nothing to do with Elon URL has nothing to do with
podcasting, per se, other than the fact that it's just it just
a happenstance that it comes into play there. And that's what
I'm saying. I don't think it's inappropriate for us to be
involved in trying to figure out help figure out solutions to
these problems. Even if we're not involved in it directly by
saying, Okay, here we go. We're gonna support all of this stuff.
Where we, you know, we stay in the podcast realm, but you know,
it is it is nice to some, I think we
both gonna, but we're not putting LIGHTNING, LIGHTNING
labs elements into the index into our database.
Sure. Yeah. Right. This stuff doesn't even exist yet. And
blue, this is all an experiment
right now. Gotcha. And we'll talk about this on the next show
is this is a conversation really worth having? Because it's a
really good one about how do we value for value enable the media
landscape. I'm just saying, I don't think that's what podcast,
index and podcasting. 2.0 is, I have no problem. Working on it,
I believe me, I like making more money. I have lots of content
that is never monetized. But the play that I understood was okay,
this would be great. We can do live, we can do video, and we
value for value, enable it. And my personal recommendation would
be if you know, if you're not using this for podcasting value
for value, then we're going to take the money, the platform,
here's how here's how you get you know, outside of the 20% fee
that we take, here's how you do it. And no free loading on the
website. Not no website, you want to watch these videos, get
one of these beautiful apps.
To me, See, to me, it feels better, to instead of shutting
down the entire web interface, it feels better to design ways
to express to the user that what they're doing actually costs
money and ask them to help.
Right. But you're but you're doing you're you're asking them
to help by saying, Oh, you can also do it this way. With Alby.
No podcast necessary. Fine. Yeah, fine. But why does Why do
we have to be the ones? That should? It? Should there be a
resource for that? Probably, I'm just wondering if that should be
us.
The only reason it should be should is not the right word.
The only reason it could and can be us that has input on these
things, is that we care a lot about it. And we're trying to
push the entire value for value space forward instead of just
you know Yeah, I mean,
I personally I like to push the podcasting value for value space
forward. I really I mean that sincerely. That's where my heart
is. And but there's a million other what I mean, why not be
the Okay, we'll maintain the value block for your word Oh,
game. I mean, we can do all of that. But I just don't know if
that's what we should be doing.
I get you 100% Take your point.
Which means fuck you curry
does not mean that at all. No, it doesn't mean that at all. I
mean, I literally have in my notes, you know, feeds value for
value. They have this the ethics of a value block when no block
exists in the feed that
that is the question. That's the question. Okay, well now I've
got stuff to think about. I also have exactly 30 minutes to post
produce and get on the road because we are having dinner in
Austin tonight. You Yeah, you did. Hey, don't mute yourself.
That's weird. Did your dog there was your dog barking?
my notepad. I picked up my notepad. I was sitting there
talking in my notepad had hit my mouse, but
yeah, don't mute don't mute. Everything's fine.
No, I had a big long soliloquy. You didn't even hear it?
No, I heard all of it. You were only muted for a moment. That
was good. Yeah. Okay. Okay, this is good stuff to think about.
Now, I'm gonna have to sit in the car for an hour and a half
and think about this. Because I see the opportunity day I see
the opportunity. The one thing I learned from Steve Jobs, my big
takeaway is the following key said, Adam, we as a company, we
say no more than anything. So what do you mean? So we just
want to do what we have set out to do really well. And we try to
stay away from everything else, because the experience shows
that it just turns out to be a distraction. See, Apple TV.
Makes sense? Perfect sense.
So that's so that's where that's where this is coming from at a
deeper level. Making value for value work for the entire world.
Of course, I'd love it. But you know, it's like, we can only do
so much. And there's so much to do in our realm that you know,
when I look at stacker news, well, that was fun for three
seconds until everyone you know, doesn't do it anymore. And the
reason is, it's not the full value for value loop. Right it's
you can't just say it technically I've got it How come
it's not working? Well, because you need as a as a creator, you
need to do some work. You need to get people to understand that
you need to onboard your people. You need to explain to them how,
you know, the nuances of it. The there's so much to do. It's not
just it's not like programmatic ads. Hey, reminder, watch this
ad because you know it's a big lift.
big lift. Yeah.
I feel like going out on a downer. This isn't just that
doesn't feel good. No, I've
got an ISO. Okay.
All right. Is it the one the only one you have
here? Yes, it is the only one
damn, who were you talking about? Up? Brother To be
continued Next Friday. What do you say? Yeah, let's do it.
We'll see you then. Everybody. Take
care. You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 to visit podcasts
index.org for more information. Pew pew pew pew