podcasting 2.0 for July 1 2022, episode 92 Space boost Hello,
everybody, welcome once again to the official board meeting of
podcasting. 2.0. It's Friday, everything going on and podcast
index.org Whatever we're developing and doing with the
podcast standards, the namespace and of course, all of the
gossip, all the real Brain Juice and goo that we find in podcast
index dot social. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas
Hill Country. And in Alabama ladies, He's doubled the size of
his database. My friend on the other end, ladies and gentlemen,
Mr. Dave Jones. Yes, yes. TWICE, TWICE the goodness. Yes. Sorry.
No, we still we still learning how to drive this thing. It's
all new.
I'm hoping that our dog doesn't lose his mind. We had, you know,
our cat died.
Oh, yeah, that's right. I'm sorry. Yeah, I
mean, we that's, that's fine. Like, we are a cat and we had to
go pick up another one. And
it's like, this one's out. This one's done trying to get a new
one right away. You didn't even consider for a moment what a
hassle a pet. It really is. I mean, you know, it sucks. But
there's a lot of a lot of downside to a pet.
But it's sort of like I don't know, I see cats is expendable.
It's sort of like, sort of like oil filters. You just kind of
swap them out. But you always need to have one Yes, like that.
You gotta have one around. But then it doesn't matter which one
it is. You just if you don't if you don't buy one or getting
given one, one will just show up at your house. I don't even
really have to
go. I am your oil filter this month. How you doing? Now?
One will appear and your backyard and then you just start
feeding it you gotta get but this one is a little psycho.
On the way to look at. Oh, okay, this is the new one. Where'd you
get them? Is it a rescue?
No as a true to form. Somebody just randomly said, Hey, do
y'all need a cat?
Oh, really? I love it. Yeah, I love it. Well, that's what
that's how we got our dog. Like, we just decided to get a dog and
we're gonna go the whole audition for a puppy route.
Which is kind of ridiculous in my mind.
That's yeah, I don't know if I can do this. Barf all over the
house, though. It's, this is the problem.
Right? But the cats are not like that.
Yeah, that I mean, this cat is this cat is throwing up 10 times
a
day. Oh, okay. Why? What's up?
I don't know. I don't know if it's disease. But it's kind of
freaking me out a little bit. You
got a bogus cat, man.
But wow, the dog hates this cat. So he may.
Oh, I see the issue. Yeah, yeah. I'm keeping them separate. And
your dogs about the size of mine.
Yeah. Not not a small guy. No, it's really another person
is really another human being in your house.
When your dog walks around, and you hear the floors crazy.
Well see, we have the concrete floors. And there's some rugs.
So she just she can't do much. She can't really charge or
anything because she'll just like a cartoon will just be
slipping.
But when she plays go, Oh, yeah.
But when she gets the zoomies around the table which is on a
carpet. Yeah. It's mayhem. I mean, it's just mayhem. 100 105
pounds. Yeah. Crazy. Hey,
I have good news. Oh, yes. I'd like a news. Yes.
I mean, I hate being the bearer of bad news, which is good news
for us. But Spotify is about to kill itself.
I've got good news. Spotify is about to die.
I feel bad about saying that. But there was a really good
article, Bloomberg put together and that just it was more for
investors. The gist of it is, hey, you know, Spotify put a lot
of money into podcasting. They they basically moved from their
non profitable business of streaming music, which is a byte
definition. It just, you know, you can't really run it
profitably. Because the the owners have the law on their
side. The labels have incredible power. They're also
shareholders. You know, so it, the whole thing is, is really
convoluted. And it's just hard to make money on music,
certainly in the models that are out there today. So they can so
the audio is their whole thing. And without a doubt, they've got
a lot of people using their app to listen to podcasts. And I
think they're gonna do audiobooks. I don't know
anything about that business. But the focus was on podcasts
and they're saying, hey, hasn't really paid off of course the
markets are working against them were when Joe Rogan came on
board, it was $353 a share. Now they're down to 100. You know,
so So all of that is just not worth it and it makes for
unhappy people inside the company who came in have
options. I mean, I've been through this I know what
happens. And the story details all of these kinds of
entertainment heavyweights who have come in to run the
podcasting division from the content perspective, and
probably the guy that was most in tune with podcasting, Holt, I
think his name was and yeah, he's the one that did the Rogen
deal. He's out or strategic advisor. And they brought in a
number of people who, you know, came from Paramount and a couple
other places. So they go through this whole thing. And you know
how difficult it was and the Obamas. And they went after big
names, but those aren't really producing any shows. Long story
short. What then to me was, the big news is that they have now
moved to a network Podcast Network strategy. And they want
to have 50 million creators join their network, and they will
help them with everything they need, and they will help them
monetize. And they want to be famous, and the dream will come
true. So the minute I heard that, I was like, oh, okay,
well, let me tell you right now I'll skip. I'll skip to the
sport, right to the end. You cannot monetize the network.
This is a scam. And they're doing it exactly the way I did
it. Which is why I can say it's going to fail, because I don't
think it was me. And I've had a lot, a lot of time to analyze
this. We raised and spent $65 million over a 10 year period
for it not to work.
adjusted to inflation. That's a that's a lot of money as they're
spending today. Yeah. Maybe it was
2005 when we started and we had four rounds of bidding, above
all, and these were some were very sophisticated like Silicon
Valley. Bo blue chip names Kleiner Perkins, Sequoia Capital
rom Sriram. Not many people know that name. But, you know, like
original Google funders. We had the network for sure. So we
could almost get in touch with anybody we needed. We were a
little bit of the outliers because we didn't let ourselves
be diluted over four rounds to some horrible degree. But it
didn't matter in the end, because it just didn't work out.
We never got an exit. We really, although we rank almost cashflow
profitably, we couldn't do it. So I just like to share a couple
of reasons why this won't work. So is
this a fireside? Is this a fireside chat with Spotify that
you're doing right now? Yes,
I am picking up on my knee here a Spotify. I feel free to
interrupt Dave, if you have questions because I it's like
when I see this. I'm like, oh, no, no, that will not work.
Definitely not.
We have one question right off the bat. Garan it's less of a
question and more of a request for explanation. Can you just
give, because I don't think people understand what you
cannot monetize the network means. Because when you say
that, I think people think, Oh, well ISPs exist and they make
money, you can clearly monetize the network, you don't mean that
you mean something different? Can you just give a quick
overview of that?
Thank you. Good, good point. So when you form a podcast network
with independent creators, who you are going to bond together
by common advertising, sales, common marketing initiatives,
etc, you will provide services such as hosting and other you
know, some technological things, maybe the career counseling,
etc, etc, which, interestingly, a lot of podcasts hosting
companies do some of that. And I think the most undervalued part
is the help desk. And that's where most of the human
resources go in is to helping people getting up and running
and set. Now we only started with, I think, 12 podcasts that
we contracted with, and we and we help them set up LLCs. And we
paid them a fixed fee, and above any, with an advance similar to
a record company, but not where the horrible royalties. And,
and, and these were like Don and Drew and Callie Lewis, who else
do we have? We had the bloated lesbian match Weinstein, the
bloated lesbian, we had the rock'n'roll geek show, I mean,
and these were the early hits, and we were looking for hits so
that that was our understanding of how it would work. And here's
what we discovered, because it's very similar to record
companies. You know, if something doesn't work, then you
just you can't focus your time on it. So we all we had and then
every other network that came after us, and please go and look
and tell me how successful they are. They always have a
podcaster relations person This is in this there's a new person
that Spotify. I gotta see what? Where is this?
Is it really a title of podcasts or relations?
No, it's BP. It's like it'll be created or something. But yeah,
hold on a second. It's a very long article, it's linked in the
show notes, of course. Says McNamara. My can't find his name
off offhand. But that it's an impossible job. It's an
impossible job. Because here's, here's I'm just gonna tell you
what happens. First of all, the sales team is going to think
this is great. We're going to change advertising, we're going
to have new categories. Oh, yeah. No, I thought this myself.
And there will be you know, that really what that results in is
host reads. And so now you have to have when conversations with
individual hosts, and you have to discuss how that you know,
what tone of voice what the, etc, etc, some individual
negotiations, you know, there will be advertiser will have to
do a network buy, and then they're going to be, of course,
very concerned about brand safety. So now you have to go
and see what you know, what shows are you can you trust to
not screw this up? They're talking about 50 million. So,
you know, I'm not quite sure how you think you're going to
automate that. But the minute advertiser hears something on a
show that they don't like, or, like some outfit, like Sleeping
Giants wants to use leverage and tells them about it, they pull
it from the whole network, and then you have the downside of
the network, which is, you know, you get a big buy, and they can
also pull it back, and then you have nothing and then you have
other issues.
Is that the key that everybody thinks to making money is that
you're going to get that you're going to get a certain amount of
total network buys. Is that Is that where they're aiming it?
Well, before
I answer the question, there's a fundamental difference. And this
is why we talked about I talked about not being able to monetize
the network, is because you don't have a lock, you don't
actually own the network. That's kind of the the double entendre.
You know, unlike a television network, where most of these
executives come from, you know, you don't determine what comes
on at eight o'clock. And what comes on after that. So now that
people have choice, not just choice of content offerings, but
also choice of when they want to view something, or how they want
to view or listen to something, this is too much choice, you
can't lock them in. So it's like, a kind of a shitty show,
but I'll watch it anyway. There's nothing else. That's how
we grew up. So I can yeah, there's nothing else I can't
really switch to this is what the network is playing. But
there's too many alternatives that people can go anywhere. I
mean, podcasting didn't collapse, when Joe Rogan went to
Spotify just didn't. So what this always results in always,
is brands going to networks and saying, You know what, we want
to create our own podcast. And we want to have this host and we
have this kind of vibe. Now Spotify, they are now in the
business where the analytics, their analytical tools they've
been talking about, they're going to fall right down the
Netflix hole of well, okay, the data says, people like true
crime with a female trans host. woman of color that talks about
you know, and, and they'll come up with these Frankenstein type
programming, but they'll sell something. Or here comes the the
motorcycle brand, hey, you know, we want to do a big deal with
all your motorcycle podcasts and then everyone has to be talked
to, and okay, now you want to integrate it into the
programming, it's never ending story. And the poor person who
is podcaster relations, is going to hate the job. In the end, you
just can't get to the scale. And that's when so when you have BMW
and Pfizer and Verizon, when you and American Airlines when
they're coming to you to advertise, there's no margin for
error. And you just can't wrangle it, you can't wrangle
it. And then you get the other end of it. Where podcasters
they're gonna share all their contracts. Hey, what are you
getting paid? No, I'm getting this. But your deal, you know,
Hey, man, how come he's getting all the marketing and when can
we get some marketing? It doesn't work. It's painful. It's
painful, but the reason they have to do it is they can't get
the cheap money anymore. The cheap money markets are closed
so they can't buy any more of whatever they think is worth
buying. So I have to
discard They have to guard their cash pile now. If they have any
whatever they have left they have to guard it with with great
care. Yes. They can't just go out and blow it because there's
no defaults that get turned off.
Yeah, then that's for everybody. That's universal. I mean, of
course, there's still deals being done. But you know,
there's no buying anything big in I don't think that would be
quite surprising, because, you know, investors are kind of
losing confidence in the whole strategies. Yeah, it's a fickle
market. Joe has been what? How long? Has he been doing it a
year? Rogen? Yeah, a year and a half now must be longer than
that. Now we've been we've been here a year. So year and a half
probably.
Yeah. And they've they've dropped talking about, they've
dropped talking about him out of all of their everything, even
though everything's they don't even mention his name anymore.
The Bloomberg
article even had a different title at first, which was
interesting. The title of this was Spotify, his billion dollar
bet on podcasting has yet to pay off. But I saw the same article.
Let me see the same article with a different title that had Rogen
in it, which I think was published earlier.
Can't find it? So anyway, so
yeah, I have things to add. Yeah. So please, continue.
No, I think my rant I mean, my rant kind of ends there. But the
podcasting is something unique to the internet. It's different
from radio in the way it's distributed, obviously. But it's
not just the actual real time distribution, which is it always
tickles me that we all get excited about real time and live
shows and lit and all that. But it's it's such a it's such the
antithesis, but it has a place, it has a place as a part of an
overall strategy. And over here, which includes me, to me, it's
the studio audience. That's That's what lit is, you know, we
have, I don't know what 15 People in the chat room, that's
the studio audience, it creates a vibe that makes it work. It's
a programming decision, not necessarily a distribution
decision. But when but not having that lock on the network.
You know, this is where people want you. There's only one Super
Bowl.
Right? Always with the time the
timing is fantastic. So you just
can't there's a certain amount of pages in your magazine each
month? Well, this is
why I always say ultimately, you know, how in when Google sells
inventory, I mean, they can make as much inventory as they want.
You know, the price just has to naturally go down, which is what
happened with pay per click and, and pay per impression. All that
stuff just went down because you can make infinite. I mean, even
expanding networks grows that market.
I mean, well, now we're seeing now we're seeing artificial
scarcity be the play, I think you're
seeing what they're trying to do is say the artificial scarcity
is we've got these big names. We're developing, you know, Amy
Schumer's podcasts were developing, you know, so the
Obamas are gone. But that showed, you know, the article
even kind of pans that and says, you know, so, the Obamas
basically, Barack was on the first episode of Michelle's
podcast, she did 14 episodes after that. And then the
President Obama did like one chat with Bruce Springsteen,
they turned it into a series podcast, very sad mo facts rip
off, I'll say You know, so it most The fact is when people
have choice of the scary shit over here, oh, I might hear a
bad word. But I kind of want to hear that, you know, we're
Cinemax.
D, do you think the lack of talking about Rogan at all in
any of their media presence now? Do you think that signals that
he's not that he's probably not going to stick with him beyond
the contract length? Um, man?
That's a good question. I I I really can't answer that. I
mean, I don't even know if Joe's compensation isn't partially
tied to the stock price. I mean, we really don't know. Yeah, that
anything we don't know the contract. Yeah, we don't know
the details of the deal. And so I don't know, I really don't
know.
Well, this this ties into something that I've had written
on my on my notes for a while. And I actually can piece it
together with something that I did this morning actually. Is, I
wonder how my question is, I wonder how long anchor is going
to survive? Oh, no. Like they're gonna boot there. I feel like
they're just gonna boot them to the curb.
Well, wait, what's their alternative?
Bringing it in house is an
anchor, okay, but they're still because I think what you're
gonna see from Spotify is an integrated join us If we do your
hosting, we do all of that.
Yes. And under the Spotify name, I think that's what they're
really going to do. So you have to anchor anchor is literally an
anchor for the hem of its business wise. I mean, they,
they don't seem to bring in any revenue, it seems they're
probably losing money, I would have to imagine. I mean, where's
the revenue from? They're free, they're free podcast host. They,
it's the GoDaddy, it's the go to free podcast host. As far as I
can tell, it's like, oh, I'll just set up a show on Anchor,
that's fine, stupid people,
which is the worst thing possible is to have, you know,
that's what I tell people when it comes to, you know, using the
end, using the index, sometimes people will say, Well, you know,
they'll imply that, that we really want to get as many users
on the API as possible. And like, that's really not the
case. Because every time a free, you know, somebody else free
starts using the API, it's more load on us, it costs us money.
And so it's really doesn't work that way. Same way. Same way,
with with Spotify and anchor, as the more popular anchor is, the
more it costs them to run it. And, you know, the head, the
guy, the head guy, Manyana left, who had been there since before
the acquisition, you know, he was one of the founders, and
going all the way back to the South by Southwest, you know,
launch of, of anchor as a social audio product, and God and he
got all about that. Yeah, it was the proto clubhouse,
essentially. But then they, you know, so he, they pivot nailed,
yeah. And he and they pivoted into podcasting to survive, and
then anchor bottom. And now anchor is now Spotify is testing
out their thing, this thing in New Zealand, where they're
allowing people in the Spotify app to essentially do the exact
same thing that Ankur does, which is just pick up your phone
and talk into it, and you have a podcast, but it's pure Spotify
and anchor is not involved with this at all. So that tells me
that I don't think anchor is very as long for this world.
They would, I mean, it'd be crazy not not to take the
infrastructure, they're going to rebuild. You know what, yeah,
probably this month, they'll rebuild it, they'll rebuild your
anchor will become the paid plan become a paid platform, and
Spotify will be the sort of ephemeral talking to your phone
type free thing.
No, no, no, no, no, I disagree. I don't think that talking into
your phone thing is going away. That's going away that no one
has made money on that. I think they're professional, basically,
the reverse of what a podcast host does a podcast hosting
company, the good ones, they say, Hey, come over here. Here's
how you can you know, here's how you get started. Here's
resources, here's learning material, you can schedule like,
I know, Todd to blueberry, he seems to talk to every new
customer. And make a plan for them. You know, if he believes
that they're worthwhile, or whatever, I'm not sure how that
how that works. But I know that he sits down with people and
says, here's what you can realistically expect and, and he
helps them what he can't promise is hey, you know, I'm going to
make you rich, famous and powerful, not necessarily in
that order. Yeah, you know, Spotify says hey, look at the
look at the you'll be right next to dot dot dot, you know, will
put you in the recommended podcasts for dot dot dot
right beside right beside Rogan or right besides
whatever we ever fill in the blank, exactly blank, fill it
in, we'll put you near the sports guy stuff or, or will
Hello brand we'll help you develop this is this will
happen, I guess you can write this one down, a brand will show
up. And a brand will say we want to create the ultimate sports
podcast or maybe even podcast network of shows. We want to own
it, and you have all the data so tell us what all the elements
are that we need to have, get us the talent and and that's how it
will happen. And that's not even necessarily a recipe for
success, but they will do that. It's the nature of finding the
business. There's no business they can't make it on ads for
whatever reason they're not they're not unprofitable because
of the expenditures that unprofitable because it's not
profitable.
Well, a network a a hosting platform of 3 million podcasts
2.9 9 million of which nobody ever listens to is a money
losing situation correct right? It's it's literally you know,
they would be much better off if they just punted on RSS
altogether and and converted anchor into the Spotify brand
bring them in house and just be appeared database with an API
for their for their purposes. That would be the exactly exact
way to go. Yeah, I think that's what the Devon think that's what
the last year of of No. tilling the soil and publicly has
probably been about because they think they will do that. No, I
don't. It seems
no, I don't think so. No, that's not what they're saying. They're
saying they want 50 million creators.
on Spotify.
Oh, you think? Anchors all on all on Spotify? No RSS feeds
only Spotify?
Yeah, I think I think that
that will result in one thing and one thing only people
uploading everywhere, including Spotify. Yeah. Pretty much. Oh,
brother. So this I guarantee that's what it is. Yeah, it's
probably right.
But the the other part, though, was is pot. This has been in my
crawl for a while. And the reason this is related is
because Spotify clearly wants to be the YouTube of podcasting.
Now, they would say there between the YouTube of
podcasting and by the way, YouTube, look at how much money
they do look at how much how many people have to work there
to monitor all this crap. So their advertisers don't get
pissed off. And they pissed off and demonetized and dehumanized
a lot of people, but because they had an actual business tied
to the back of it, namely, Google search, they were able to
weather through all the storms.
We see they always get a backstop. Yeah, they have a real
business, they have a real business on the funds,
everything. They weren't profitable for a long time, they
were losing a lot of money on infrastructure a lot. Spotify,
of course, also wants to move towards video. So that in a
combination with the Netflix model, which we know also isn't
working too well right now.
Well, the so I went through we've heard time after time
after time, over the last couple of years that I don't remember
when this was first talked about, but I think it was
something with Edison Research and I don't remember where this
started. But I know I've heard Tom Webster talk about it on
other shows about how the number one pod is the number one app
for listening to podcast is always YouTube. And this has
always bothered me. I don't something about it. I was a
thought you know, I just I can't articulate why I did why I think
that number is bogus. But I just think it's bogus. And I want to
so I just went and I went and grabbed the weekly podcast
listeners survey from Edison the US Top 50 podcast and this is
probably the most complete survey that did that's out
there. And I just went one by one I grabbed the top 20 I
grabbed the top 25 Out of the 50 and I searched for each one of
them on YouTube and just wrote down what what I found. And so
the Joe you know Joe Rogan clearly is number one in podcast
world for listeners. Only is only clips. There's not full
episodes occasional clips on YouTube. Crime junkie is number
two. They are they do post their episodes to YouTube but each
each one of them has less than 1000 views. So clearly not
anything of any consequence at all. The daily is number three
from New York Times no they are not on YouTube. This American
Life has not has a YouTube channel but they haven't posted
to in three years. My favorite murder only has clips and I'm
just going in order from top to bottom six stuff you shouldn't
know they have not posted to their YouTube channel into
yours. office ladies from ear wolf studios I can't find it.
Dateline NBC they have a few they have clips but otherwise
they clips and trailers. Ben Shapiro is on there. So that's
that's a big one. Call her daddy. Spotify only not on not
on YouTube or there's clips on the I guess. Morbid a true crime
podcast. They are on there but they have roughly 1000 views per
per episode. There are a bunch of NPR shows so
what you're saying is bogus.
Well, here's here's if you get down to you don't see any you
don't see any significance at all in the top in this top 25
until you get down to most of them not even there but you get
you get down to number 21 which is the h3 podcast. I was not
familiar with h3 podcast no finally but that finally has
some big numbers and then next to it the next one in line is
number 22 the impulsive with Logan Paul. Now these these two
shows appear to be highly YouTube first is
Oh yeah. Oh, especially Logan Paul. Oh yeah. YouTube first
then podcast.
Yeah. And so This makes it they they are YouTubers who are also
podcasting. Yeah, so they've built their audience in YouTube.
These aren't these aren't podcasters that came to YouTube
and just happened to post their content there.
I'm glad you brought this up. Because there's, here's an
example of audio versus video. I always like to give these
examples when I come across them because I like audio. I think
there's a place for video. And lots of people love video, and
I've nothing against video. I don't like doing it. And this is
my personal reason. I think you can do a lot more with audio
with sound. It's more. It's more intimate. And the disaffected
podcast which you and I both listen to. Josh, what's his
name?
Slocum, I think? Yeah.
Which is a really funny podcast for a whole bunch of reasons. We
don't necessarily have to go into it. But I had never seen
the podcast, I thought it was only audio. In fact, I only
recently did I discovered that I guess it's video because he was
talking about something he was showing. And he always does a
good job of describing what he's showing on screen so that the
listeners can understand. And then you sent me a link to the
video version, because we both thought the opening was was
rather stunning. And, and then I saw him and it's like, oh, I
didn't quite imagine him like that. And now I'm conflicted.
It's like seeing Sam Sethi only the really gay version. I mean,
that's a good way sound. That's nothing to do with you. It's
more about Josh. So you know, just like, wow. And then I saw
his studio and I had a whole different idea about it. And
every single time that's, I don't want to say it's a
letdown. But it is not because it's more or less, but it's just
so wildly different from what I had had in mind. And it affects
it affects my my entertainment. My pleasure.
That I guess I'm trying this is not a this is not a thing about
a nor an argument about what is a podcast? No, this is not a no
or No, I'm not saying YouTube is not a podcast. And because
podcasts are only shows with RSS feeds. Not what I'm saying. This
is not that argument. This is about what importance the
podcast industry should place on these types of surveys and these
numbers, because nothing is relevant. Well as a tech
support, doing tech support for 27 years.
Any number never had a fight.
And the one thing you find everybody that comes in the that
every employee that I've they've had this worked under me. Day
one, I tell them the exact the first thing if they have never
worked in tech support before users lie. That is the number
one thing you have to remember. They do not tell the truth. And
it's not because they don't lie willfully on purpose
maliciously, they lie because they don't know what they're
talking about. And so this when you when a listener says, oh,
yeah, I listen to you. I listen to podcasts on YouTube. They
have no idea what they're telling you. They don't know
what that means. And what because what this looks like to
me. Is that the Yeah, I listen to podcasts on YouTube. It comes
down to a couple of two or three specifically Rogen and color
daddy, previous mega hits that were dominant on YouTube. And
then also a couple of YouTube first kids. Yeah, that's what
that's what they mean. Yeah. Now you cannot take that type of
thing. extract it out and apply it to the podcast into to the
customers of blueberry. It doesn't apply,
you know, but you know, I just have to insert my my age old
thing. There's no podcast industry. This is all horseshit.
Everyone's all jacked about a creator study. Oh man there's
too many men creating podcast is not equitable. What are we going
to do? Let's throw some money at some BLM LGBTQ IP k plus noodle
boys. It'll all be good. Well,
that's basically that I don't I don't believe those numbers
either. No source none women podcast and when women are all
over podcasting, there's no way that number can be right.
There's there's no way no. I mean, some sometimes you'd have
to believe
your dog and remind over my dog.
That's my dog. Number one, my cat I'm
muting a mute doing like, what is it? Is that my? My dogs? You
meet your dog? Okay, I'm sorry.
Yeah. Well, you know, sometimes you just have to say, you look
at a thing and you hear some numbers, you're like, I just
can't believe that, that it lacks a certain what do you call
it? Not the one I was thinking, Oh, no. It lacks a, a real world
credibility where you look and you say, oh, yeah, I could see
that, or that's a little. That's a little higher than I thought
it would be. But when it comes out, and it's so skewed, I mean,
Todd Cochran had the same exact reaction on the new media show,
you know, this week, he was like, This is not what we see in
blueberry. No, I mean, he's like this dark Raiders. I mean, we're
like 5050.
And again, it all comes. Okay. I've been around for a while in
the business. None of this matters, because there is no,
there's the billion dollars. I mean, there's a billion dollars
going in maybe, and it's going into things, but it's not going
into advertising. And not everybody seeing that. And
there's just no industry. It can't it's it's not built that
way, the whole idea. I mean, it's, it's so weird that so much
like Bitcoin. It's like you can do whatever you want. But it's
not just not going to change anything. It's just not some
improvements can come. But that's about it. You know, the
core is always going to be the same and it's just not
monetizable. And that's the same book. I'm very excited about
going to Podcast Movement. You and I are doing a 45 we have
been granted a 45 minute talk. Now. I just want to want
everyone to know I never did keynotes I refuse to do keynotes
because it's always paid to play. I don't like it. I don't
know, I I'm not slagging anybody, because I don't I'm not
in the conference business. But you know, after Mark, what's his
name? Cuban after Cubans appearance and the success last
year to have him back. It's like, okay. But even from the
first podcast conference, I was asked to, you know, sponsor it,
like, No, you're in the business, you get your people
in, you know, the value for value. And I said, but I'm not
gonna I'm not gonna do a conference where I have to speak
at to pay to speak. So until we have a little bit and I'm, I
love this because I want to be so packed. Because there's only
one thing people go to conferences for really
podcasters creators interested parties. How do I make money?
That's the question. That's what everybody wants answered. And
we're going to answer that. Yeah, I wish I could take JCD
with me. That'd be great. But yeah.
Yeah, he would love Oh, that he's there. He's there with
belzona
convenient. What would happen? I'll tell you exactly. He'd be
in the bar with the hottest chicks all hanging around and
fun. It's I'm telling you, man, he's he's an exam magnate. John
C. Dvorak is a chick magnet. He is He is
I'm telling you funny. Yes. funny because I can kind of
believe it.
Easily. Ya know, he's got a whole vibe, man. Hey, girls.
Like as as having gone to Podcast Movement last year.
There again, I can tell you that. I mean, at least 50%
women. I just me I know. We've moved on. But yeah, again, I
mean, like, I just don't buy that number. Sorry. Just just
don't buy it at all.
I guess. So anyway, yes, we do have a good I don't know you
might have cute might have died by now just with old age since
we've been running this so long. Very happy to have back in the
boardroom here. One of the first developer I think was one of the
first developers along with Martin, I think early on, came
in and started developing for podcasting. 2.0 has been a
driving force behind a lot of what we're doing in particular,
and I'm very selfish about this because he created first within
curio kit caster, but later as an external external application
or a magazine. It feels like an application but of course it's
on his server, sovereign feeds.com Which is what we use
to test all the new features. It is he really is the vendor of
the scissors we run with here at podcasting. 2.0 Ladies and
gentlemen, say hello to scissor vendor Steven Bell.
Hi, guys. How's it going?
Yeah, I'm so sorry to keep you waiting so long. We were just
getting our getting our groove on
as are right.
We given the given the nature of the last two or three episodes.
It's it's pretty clear that we can get it there. We know how to
beat a dead horse with
real good
hours on it. Yeah. Much to the chagrin of most of the people
listening but thanks by
the way to everybody. Who is listening to this show as we're
lit, the live item tag is going pod verse curio caster, I think
are the two that can handle it right now you get right in there
and you get your chat, your, your live stream, your boost
interface. Everything is all in there. And we love it.
Steven, I, you know, I'd reached out to you to get on because you
just we had you on what? A year ago? I guess maybe?
Yeah, I think it was September of last year.
Okay. And you've done like, You've done so much since then.
I mean, you and you and Mitch, just add features like they're,
I mean, just like you pick them off a shelf and just shove them
in there. I mean, like this just like one a week almost
like Legos. Oh, and I put this on?
Yeah. But, you know, specifically sovereign themes is
it's becoming a, I mean, it's becoming a real platform. Yeah,
just do you want to just kind of go over what do you have like a
quick overview that you tell people of what sovereign feeds
does?
Yeah. So I've been applying for developer positions. And I'm
using that as my, I guess that's my portfolio site. And let them
know that this is for people who are self hosting their own RSS
feeds, and they could put in the majority of the podcasting 2.0
tags, and then host it on their own server. And just so you guys
know, I tried releasing it last night, but I'm having issues
with course. Oh, yeah. Yeah, hey, cores, but I've got it
working on my local machine where you can now drag and drop
your files. And as long as you have a Dropbox spaces, you can
put your API keys in. And it will upload your mp3 and images
to your Dropbox. Oh, cool, and populate your whole thing. So
it's like being in any hosted RSS feed builder, without the
help desk? Yeah, without the help desk.
And I will say, as Stephen, of course, is very humble. But I
did a little I did a little bit of background research. And
Steve and I do see the you have earned the LinkedIn skill badge
for front end development. So I mean, nothing to be downplayed.
Yeah, nobody wants to hire an electrician to be a developer.
And I'm on hireable anyway, Steven, I'm right there with ya.
So you are a you're an electrician? By trade, ma'am.
Yeah, I've got my Master's license. And I moved out of the
field probably eight years ago. And now I do estimating. We know
how much the job should cost for the guys in the field to do it.
I need to ask you this question because I've had a couple of
electricians over here and I I really did not like one I really
liked the other one. I think that the one I liked was on
drugs, which is kind of the cool thing about him. But I've
noticed that with electricians, unlike any other vocation,
especially master your master electrician, I presume. Yeah. If
you even mentioned something about hey man, maybe we can move
the you know, the water pipe or you know this gas line or you
know, not even meaning that the electrician should do it. The
electrician the master electrician goes Do you see do
you see do you see a plumber anywhere here on my jacket? I
was just say electrician What is this a universal thing you guys
have a stick up your ass?
Yeah, maybe I want to do the other tree eyes work. And hey,
when it comes to the totem pole electricians are on the bottom
because it's easier to move wires than it is to you move
plumbing pipes
so you always have to clean this shit up at the plumbers leave
behind Yeah,
so if we go in and the HVAC guy needs to put duct work well, if
our stuffs in the way we got to move it out of the way for him
so you're all so you're always the cleanup guy.
Yeah, we're the we're the low guys on the totem pole Whereas
of course an electrician takes great pride in exactly how they
run the wires you know right down to the stripping distance
all that stuff I mean that's the stuff that you guys live for.
Oh yeah, you can you can tell when a good craftsman has done
it because if you look on the switch plates or the receptacle
plates that little screw will be facing vertical
yes I have noticed that Yeah, exactly. Even down to the screws
you're right
down to the screws Yeah, it's a problem for a lot of guys
because we have we have that desire for craftsmanship but you
still need to get the job done and get it profitable for the
owner so that he's got enough to keep this company going.
Well that's it's funny because my dad My dad always said that.
All you need to you need to know to you just need to know two
things to be a plumber. Shit floats and water runs downhill.
And pay days on Thursday.
I feel like like I feel like I, I feel this from you know, I am
a curio caster user I abuse. All all apps except cast
thematically don't have iOS in my life anymore. And I'm using
them just to see what new features are coming out. But I
always go back to curio caster, I love the web app. And it's
always evolving. And I wanted to compliment you on how you've
translated some of those master electrician screws all up in the
in the vertical position. You've translated that into a lot of
the user experience, all these little things start popping up,
you know, the new tag, the On Air tag, the LIVE TAG, just the
whole experience, I can feel it developing around my my user
experience without really interrupting it. And you really
do a good job on that.
Yeah, I've got two competing things, because I think the RSS
feed, the podcaster is the one who should own that and own what
is being displayed to the listener. That's why I was so
adamant that if we're doing comments, I want the podcaster
to be able to say man that does not match my brand. I don't want
those comments associated with my particular feed. I think
about a pastor who there may be comments that he just doesn't
want his congregation reading. So on one hand, I want the
podcaster to have control. But within the app, the listener is
the one who's primarily using that not the podcaster. So I
want their experience to be as best as I know how to do it.
Have you actually done that implementation?
I haven't done. I haven't done anything I've done.
Okay, that's what I thought. Yeah.
Yeah, we're speaking of Rena, we need to move forward with the I
think it's time to just kind of codify polish up. Yeah. And
finalize the social interact tag. I don't think there's
anything else. What we've been talking about as an essay, we
just with John Spurlock and Alex and a lot of people who has had
some input on the social interact tag is that I mean,
it's probably just ready to it's probably ready to go. And if we
want to do some sort of live chat tag, I think it's probably
right at this point to just have that as a separate tag, or, or
maybe a property or some, some other deliver that in some other
way. Because they, in some ways they aren't they in some ways,
they are different. They, they are different things. And in
some ways they aren't. And I guess from just my own personal
perspective, when when you have a thing like that, which is so
so what what I'm talking about is I'm talking about social
media comments, style comments, and then chat. So it's the
difference between something like Twitter or Mastodon would
be social order comments in the chat would be more like Slack.
IRC. Jabber?
XMPP
XMPP Yeah, yeah. Or, or was this not synapse? Was the was the
other big one? The Matrix? Matrix? Yes. Thank you matrix.
So that's, they're, they're kind of the same. But they're also
very, very different feel and used in very different forms.
And so whenever there's just my personal preference, whenever
there is a difference like that, it just seems like it's right to
separate them out. Because we could, we could shoehorn chat
into the social interact tag in some way that I don't I don't
know that it's really necessary.
Yeah, I don't like the idea of going into social interaction.
Social enacts already a complicated tag. And now we're
going to start adding stuff and we had to simplify it because we
had an open to just about anything that anyone could think
of. And I think we simplified it to lightning, Twitter and then
mastodon.
Yes. Activity. Activity. Yeah.
Yep. And I think that they're different enough that it's
easier just to create a whole new tag and do that in. I guess
we're in Phase Five, where we're still introducing new tags, but
I think we've shown enough interest in chat that it should
at least be a tag that's considered gentlemen. I have to
play.
And now it's time for some namespace. That's that's not too
corny. No, no, no, it's
not as bad as the math. The math is out of control. So episode
100. It'll come back
coming up.
But yeah, no, I think that's right. I think the so we'll go
ahead and finalize social interact because there's Yeah,
it's ready to be used me people. floor, people are trying to do
things with it at this point. And so I think it's ready to go
to go ahead and do it. And then we can always modify or add to
and not modify, but add to it later expanded. Are you do you
think you'll? Do you think you'll plug that in once once we
hit once we make it final?
Oh, for sure. I mean, I've already got some sort of
bastardize implementation of chat in the live items. So once
we've got something figured out, I definitely want that within
the feeds. The apps that or I'm sorry, the podcasters that are
using it, it's really important to them.
A bastardized implementation of anything is pretty much its
ship. I mean, that's good. You're good to go ship it. Ship
it down. Oh. So let me go back to sovereign feeds for a second.
Sovereign. I think you tried to figure out, even trying to
figure out what's best the best way to do the hosting part like
the actual media files, where they're going to live, where
they're going to be served from? Are you have you ever settled on
Dropbox as your solution?
I have only because it's the one I've looked at. And their API
was easy enough to do. I was looking at Dropbox because it
was free. And I really want to be able to get musicians on
board with something that's easy. And there's not a lot of
buy in, because I don't know that. I don't know that guys
want to spend $12 a month for something that they're going to
get $2 A month initially.
question, Can you hook this up to? The what's the name of that
service? That all the musicians upload to? We talked about him
my bank? That was crosstalk
like Bandcamp is original?
No, not Bandcamp? The other one the that also has RSS feeds.
RSS Feed me a music service. That's Bandcamp.
No, no, no, it's not a music service. SoundCloud, SoundCloud.
Don't they have an API?
I don't know, I'd have to look into that.
The only reason I'm saying is if anywhere that there's an API
that you can offload, like Dropbox is a great one. I'm
saying if you could tap into a couple more of those. I mean,
what? What I almost think there's a, I've always thought
there's a market and I can never understand why no one builds it
on. Who's our favorite Linux host there? Dave? Linode,
Linode. You know, you almost want an a script, that you go on
Linode, you know, boom, set up an instance boom, it's running.
Boom, you've got your storage, boom, you got your Cloudflare.
Yeah, that's, so what Dropbox spaces does is it does that for
you. You're just uploading the files, and you can decide to
serve them through a CDN. So you don't have to set up a separate
wildflower and cool Cloudflare instance,
oh, I didn't realize that. Okay, so they have the API to all
those other things. That's cool.
They do. And it's $5 a month, and you get 250 gigabytes of
storage and one terabyte of bandwidth.
That's about half an hour for the no agenda show. Yeah.
I think the CDN should probably cut down on that quite a bit for
any of those static files.
That's cool, man. Congratulations. What a great
idea.
Yeah, and I figured five bucks a month, and especially if a few
bands decided to get together, because I don't think they're
going to be using the one terabyte for a few three minute
songs, especially this early on, where people just aren't using
it yet. And then if it does get popular, they can get they can
increase their bandwidth by paying an extra five bucks for
another terabyte.
Now, how are you? How are you working into this equation with
the value for value?
So I've got I've got an ln URL on the front screen that anyone
can scan if they want to donate. And then I've got a button where
when you're putting in the value block, it asks you if you want
to add sovereign feeds to the value block. Yeah, cool. Yeah,
that's what that's what you guys are doing. And then mixer is
doing that. And Mike Newman's doing that,
dude, Mike Newman just boosted us. 100,001 Satoshis. Oh,
that's nice. Yeah. Just yeah, he's a nice guy. And he's super
helpful with with using the product and let me know and you
had a pain point, we might as
well get this one out of the way now, is that added as a fee to
the split meaning, I want to see if we all agree on this, that is
in addition to the to the podcaster split.
So I put it as a fee for 5%. And I can change that within the
program. But what you guys did was you went ahead and manually
added it as a 5% split.
Yeah, we were given it we're giving it to you from our
because you know, its value for value. So we want it to come
from us? And I feel that's correct, because we're using you
to create the feed. So we should be taking the hit.
So yes, and that's so the All it's doing is inserting me into
the value block that's in the RSS feed, right?
But is that as a split or a fee? It is. So
when you click that button, it goes in as a fee,
which means it would be on top for the listener.
Okay, so that's, that's where I'm getting confused. Because,
yeah, the way I understand a fee is, if a listener boost 1000
SATs to the podcaster, they expect 1000 SATs to come out of
their wallet. Now, does the fee come out of that 1000 SATs or
does it get added? Now when it's within the podcasters value
block? I think it should come out of that it should come out
of that 1000 SATs because it's in the podcasters value block. I
agree. And the podcaster has a choice over whether he wants
that to be a fee or not.
So Oh, okay. So fee would be comes off the top before the
split is made? Or you're part of the actual split?
Yes. Now we have a different type of fee, which would be an
app fee. Yes. Which the podcaster doesn't have control
over? Right. So the question is, is does the app fee come off the
top? Or does it get added to the amount,
the way I would like it to be is it's added to the amount if it's
an app on the on the users listener side. And I'm
going to so my idea is I'm going to let the listener decide
whether they so as long as they understand when they're boosting
1000 SATs, that that only 950 of it's going to the podcaster.
They're ultimately choosing that because they've chose that
option. But I'm also going to give them the option that they
can add it on top knowing that when they boost 1000 SATs,
they're going to get 1050 taken out that way, whatever mental
model they have of how that should be working, when they
click that boost button is how that works. And they can see the
money coming out of their wallet.
So you're leaving it up to the user? And what is the default
that comes out of the podcasters? Take? Um,
I don't know. I think that would probably be my, my initial
implementation, because it's easier with the logic. But I
don't have a dog in the fight with one way or another.
The without risking getting back into this again this week that
that was the initial, the initial reasoning behind taking
it out of the total, instead of adding it to the top was for
that was purely for the reason of that you don't surprise the
listener when they chose Okay, I'm gonna send 1000 SATs and
then more than that came out of their wallet. And they're like,
whoa, wait a second. You know, where's it going? That was the
original original thinking. So I think that, yeah, I think these
these explorations are just, it's just part of the maturing
process in the market.
Yeah, like I said, I'm building the interface for the listener,
because I want that user experience to be as painless as
possible. So I'm thinking for myself when I set the boost to
1000. I don't want to have to do this mental math of okay, I
guess I got I got 1000 SATs left in my wallet, I'm going to drain
the wallet. Now I have to go 950, and then the amount that
goes to the to the podcaster. And then how much is the app
going to take? I just want them to say hey, it's 1000 SATs.
That's how much is coming out of the wallet. Yeah. But I
certainly understand from a podcaster point of view where
yeah, that that's ultimately money that would be going to
them? Yeah.
So I understand why it was set up that way to protect the app
developer, but now the podcaster has no protection.
Yeah, cuz as an app developer, I could say 100%. And people may
not know if they're not checking their transaction history.
Yeah. And I don't think it would be nefarious like that. I don't
expect that to happen. And you know, I've been told by friends
to shut the fuck up and trust the free market. So I'm trying
to do my best here. But, you know, I, for instance, I don't
think you charge this but if I find 5% too much.
Yeah, and I actually I do charge 5% 3% goes to curio caster, I do
1% to the podcast index and 1% to Elon pay.
Right. No, I understand. But, you know, I give 5% to Dred
Scott, who does the chapters you know, so I'm just looking at the
value for value because I got a lot of different apps that have
different numbers. So we don't have to get into the argument
again, is I feel like it's I feel just as passionate that I
should be paying out of my podcast or split for for
sovereign feeds that I shouldn't be paying for it out of curio
caster. And the reasoning Well, the listener will be surprised.
That's just not a good UX. You haven't explained it, or I
haven't explained podcasting. 2.0 isn't well understood, or,
or we're back to that very debate, a value for value.
Because you're not actually asking the listener to value
your stuff. You're saying, I've been
thinking about ways that how can this be monetized without me
having to take a cut of of the boost at all. Because I
originally, when I first had this, and it was called a tip
jar, you could do individual boost. And my intention with
that was people could pick curio caster as an individual boost if
they want it to. But also, if they really loved the drum solo
from a band, they can do that. And I've since removed that,
because I don't think that the listeners should be able to
override what the podcaster wants. I agree. I agree. I think
that the booths should go to whatever the is in the value
block. So I'm trying to figure out ways that an app and
what we've, what we've hit on here is, and I've had time to
think about it from last week, is the actual Crux in the value
for value system. How are you getting people to value you?
Because you're not feeling pain? Or gain necessarily doing it?
No, I'm saying it's like, when when the split comes from the
podcaster, it's the podcaster, who gets less value, and then
has to say, Well, is this worth it to me now, I'm not saying
fight, but just philosophically 5% 50%. And it's all about the
numbers. That's what value for value is. And it feels a bit
like podcasts, our app developers in general, still
don't really want to say, hey, value my app, in and here's the
way you can do it. And this is what I'd like you to do. Which
would be voluntarily put, you know, 5%, on top, or whatever
someone feels is, and you may be surprised. Whatever someone
feels is appropriate for the experience they get from the
app, it's still coming. It's invisible to the user, the value
to the app, it's virtually invisible.
Yeah, and I, what I'm leaning towards is just giving them that
option. And they can choose the percentage. I'm also thinking
about ways to how can I do a leaderboard like maybe as a
splash screen, when you first load up, and I've got everything
loading, maybe there's a splash screen that shows the top donors
or it can show a podcaster decides to send a boost message
to curio caster with a link to his podcast, so that he is doing
some sort of advertising, I mean, just like what comic strip
loggers doing within your guys's value segment, there could be a
value segment as part of the splash screen for the app
itself.
I don't think that's a great,
I'm just I'm, and I think we're done. At developers, you're
selling yourself short, if you don't ask people to support the
work you're doing in addition to what they're doing in supporting
the work of podcasters whether that's, that's I mean, I don't
care how you do it. But I think you should be a part of the
streaming sites and the and the booster grams, because that's
where the money is, just to be frank about it. And I really
feel that you would be surprised if instead of hiding it, you
know, because the user, the user will be disappointed, upset and
angry emails, etc. Then the debate is not even being held
properly. The debate should be I put this work into this, you
like this app, you like how it works, I respond to your
request, I keep developing this thing, I add new features. We go
on and on and on and on. Is that worth 5%? On top of what you're
sending? Or is that worth, you know, X amount per month, or
whatever your methodology is, it's still about to ask, and I'm
not and I've never considered this. I've only thought of value
for value, which does not work without the ask if you don't ask
and you don't have the feedback loop. So your leaderboard is
part of I think part of the right system. But developers
have to also under figure out how to ask just like podcasters
and the reason The reason is you will benefit you will get a
shitload more.
No, I agree. And I've been thinking about how that can be
done. Because how many times have you gone on the Wikipedia
page? And there is the if everybody just donated $5, we'll
be done with Okay.
Thank you. This is thank you very much. Welcome to value for
value, I'll tell you exactly what happens there. Because once
a year, maybe once every two years, I click that button,
because I think, you know, I slag them off, it's a piece of
shit, but I always use it during my live shows, I'll donate to
them, the total number of value for value donors that you're
going to get is going to be about 4%. That's it, don't
expect everyone to do it. And that's not the value for value
model. Now, why does it work for Wikipedia? Or Wikimedia? Why did
they raise 35 to $50 million? Because there's 95% of the
people do nothing. There's 1%, like me who you know, 100 bucks,
250, or something like that. And then you have someone who come
in with 10,000 A million. That's how it works. And I can't
explain why. But like last week, we got now deemed to pay to our
boost. You know, and that that made our month that literally
made our month in booster grams. That's how it works. You go and
there's a gamification element in that, which I hate calling it
gamification. It's called a recognition, where you thank
someone for what they did that inspires other people. Now, how
you do that in software? I'm not exactly sure. I think the
leaderboards ideas are good. I've seen a lot. I mean, I'm
always buying a cup of coffee, if that's the only option. And I
usually buy the cup of coffee and say, Can I give you 50 bucks
to an open source project?
Now, have you considered how do you increase that? 4%? Because
every listen,
you can't, you can't You don't you don't increase, you don't
increase the 4%, you increase the value proposition by adding
new features and then saying, Hey, we started off at 1%. But
now we've done this, this and this, would you consider doing
3%? Or you know what? Why don't you put in the percentage you
think this is worth? That's where you need to get to you
need to get to people being able to do open ended. And at the
same moment, right, it having a QR code is great, but it's
separate from the whole functionality. I would have a
button right there right next to boost.
Yeah, I've considered doing that in sovereign feeds, where you
can just look at
links, you can link them, you can unlink them. And there's all
kinds of ways that's the creativity you have to have. And
I, I smell fear. And I don't mean that in a bad way. But it's
not the fear of not making money. It's the fear of asking,
How do I I'm so humble here, you know, I don't want you to get
pissed off because it comes out of the podcasters portion. Now,
man, be upfront, just shit is great. But I
think a lot of developers don't want to annoy their users with
pop ups and asks and that kind of thing. Because it's become
sort of like, is because become looked down upon to to be that
way. But at the same time, but I think it's been part of that is
that it's never been done. And and it's not been honest. So
there's always been, you know, historically within like Apple's
ecosystem, it's a rate our app and it would pop up right at the
worst time, it would be annoying to your user. And it but it was
all this sort of really roundabout gamification of
trying to get you to rate the app. So that that would be you
know, boost their presence more. It's like, I don't want to play
your game sort of thing. Whereas just coming out and asking and
saying, Hey, would you mind donating? Cuz we need money?
Well, I mean, that's just honest.
I agree with you. And but I'm not talking about pop ups and
ticklers and reminders. That's bullshit. Now, you get the app
high set up your wallet. Hey, this takes time I give 1% to
podcast index, I gave 1% to Elon pay, who works the wallets? 3%.
Would you like to add that on top of everything? If not, I'm
gonna put this little button next to the boost button, which
allows you to give me something when you feel it's appropriate.
I mean, that's just one idea. Right? But that's not you don't
need pop ups and ticklers and ads and banners or anything like
that. That is in fact, the old shitty model that I think most
people you know, they deal with it and then eventually they
might wind up paying 295 a month but again, it's like even you
Dave have complained. How come I can't give you 295 a month to
some apps. I've heard usually this
yellow. Let me give you a perfect example of what I did
this week. In my night, this week, I've been working on
getting my cron job boosts set up So I have a script that will
directly send from ln CLI with, with the appropriate TLV records
and everything. So I just a building this, this script where
I can just put in a podcast on the command line, a podcast ID,
a feed ID, and then a message and an amount. And it will pull
all the data pulled the podcast, value blog, it will go through
all that is where I can just boost a show directly out of the
API from the command line. And, and then I'll put it in a cron
job. I think we did we,
I think we did develop that system on this very show the
whole idea of a man line forced in a cron job, I love that you
did that I needed to now.
Okay, well, I'll give you the script. When I'm done. I'll open
source and of course, like everything, but the, the thing,
the reason I did that was, it started it started with with two
podcasts. And then when my son had his accident, and in my
podcast listening went way down for a while, because I mean, I'm
like, uh, you know, I'm like an hour a day, podcast listener
easily. And the when, when I started really struggling to
find enough time to listen, I started to feel guilty, because
like one, one show in particular causality by John cIgi. I love
that show. It's one of my favorite podcasts. But he
doesn't post very often, he only posts a new show, sometimes once
a month or less, or even less, because the nature of these
shows is it takes tons of time to do research. I mean, it's
just so research heavy. So it's understandable that it takes a
long time. But I don't want to have to wait to it's not about
the money necessarily. It's about I want him to see the
boosts come in to motivate him to keep going. And I want him I
want those to come in on a more regular basis. And so I went and
looked at the Patreon and I was like, okay, he's got different
levels of support here. He's got like, a $5 $10 $20 a month, $50
a month. And then I start back me back figuring Okay, how much
is that in SATs? And so I'm like, Okay, I want to be a
silver level producer, which is one of his Patreon level only
silver level producer, I converted that into SAS, then
divided it up into four weeks. And I'm like, Okay, I'm going to
send him that much each week in order to be a silver level
producer. But I'm going to do it more frequently than once a once
per show or once per month. That way he sees he gets the the
feedback as a podcaster. And he's like, oh, you know, cool.
It keeps him motivated to keep going with the show. So then I
extrapolate that out into other shows like another one is it for
different reasons. And other ones everything everywhere daily
by Gary aren't, I want to send him. I love every one of his
episodes, and I boost them every time I listen to him. But he has
so much content I can't consume at all, because he's a daily
podcast. So they're, again, a fault of I'm going to fall back
to the cronjob boost and boost him on a regular basis. That way
I can make sure that I'm not losing track. And I'm giving him
a predictable amount of money. So think some of these, some of
these models.
We haven't even started to explore Dave, this is something
that any app could provide. I mean, there's all kinds of
things to consider. But any app can say, Hey, would you know
right next to the boost button, would you like to send this
podcast, X amount per week, per month or whatever, you know,
automatically? Stuff like that? I
would love that. Yeah, I would love that. And I think Alex is
exactly what I was trying to get to is that notion that we
haven't,
we haven't even explored it. We haven't explored it. And that's
also a value for value. It's not real time streaming sexy as
shit. But okay, you know, we want to do that we do that.
what Alex said something the other day. He said I don't think
podcasters have. I don't think podcasters fully understand open
source yet. I think he's right at this. It's very, it's very
new to the podcast world. And and I'm not saying there's never
been open source.
point about this to your right. Yeah, that's yeah, I'm not
saying that. There's never been it. But the really podcasting as
an industry, you know, whatever that means, has been dominated
by proprietary closed systems. Very. It went that way early.
And it's been that way ever since greed. It's a bringing
open source. Bringing open source and free software, ethos
and values into the podcast ecosystem is something that
they're not used to and I think it's there's a there's a
learning curve that has to happen.
And from the development standpoint as well, I mean, heli
pad, which I know you just did an open update, and you're
working on, you know that next version, that thing is open
source. It's screaming for features, I mean, just
screaming, and that what I'm seeing is, you know, poor James
Cridland is trying to get in there and make stuff cool. We
have real developers hovering around who could make the heli
pad, like a Swiss Army knife of podcasting back end. I mean,
it's unbelievable. I, I want charts, I want stats, I want
graphs, I want timelines, I want to be able to click on it and
heavy pad, oh, here's a boost. What moment in the show was that
boosted all of this stuff? That's all there. There's no
culture around creating podcasting apps that way in the
open source, or both? There's no open source culture in
podcasting, that way that people are saying, Oh, shit, let me and
also because most developers may not be podcasters. You know,
they don't know what podcasters want. You You now understand
that in there's there's a there's this. You know, there's
always been like, there's been some podcast apps like Katy ease
AB casts and things like that. And there's been like, podcasts
generator, there's been the sort of one off projects. But the
idea Yeah, but you're exactly what you're saying the idea that
somebody did, you would have open source across the entire
stack of things. And it's sort of like, you're turning it into
an open source sort of world. That is just something that I
don't think anybody has, that it's new, new, let's just say
heli pad could deliver more exciting, meaningful analytics
to podcasters than anything Spotify has. momentarily. Yeah,
it really, really could. It's exciting from a programming
standpoint, with human interaction, human data that is
different because of human interaction. It's fantastic
stuff there.
Yeah. And then once you put that stuff out into like,
fucking what is that? Is that is that react? Do you do that and
react? Yeah, I'll just go do that myself sick and tired of
waiting for developers?
The day I do react will be the day that Mitch down, he cries
and it was curious,
as Steven B put this into into sovereign feeds, man, you know,
there is there it is.
Spencer, where they were talking about this on April craft
because they want features and heli pad. And Spencer was
mentioning that it's difficult because he doesn't know the code
base, because I think part of it's in Rust, the whole thing's
in Rust you Okay, so he said that part of it is he would love
to get in there. But he is a front end developer. So one of
the issues with open source is, if you don't know the language
that libraries written in, now, you've got this whole nother
thing of learning that language if you want to contribute to it,
which is why they were talking about, okay, how can we
incentivize people know the language to show interest in
developing it? Because maybe Dred Scott, who he's got money
to give to everyone, but may not have the time or the coding
knowledge. So how could he incentivize someone to develop
this thing? Because he can't do it himself?
Yeah, I've got well, I've got an idea that that I would like to
discuss.
Okay, one moment. Board Member Dave Jones has the talking
stick.
point of personal privilege. I would like to, I would like for
us as a board to consider, oh,
here, here we go.
This is
when someone says that this okay, bullshit coming. All
right. What do you want us to consider as a board? Okay.
Anytime somebody says as a board, it means I want you all
to do all the work and I'm just going to come up with the idea.
Yes. No, no, for real, though. What I think at some point,
maybe we do a podcasting 2.0 hackathon. I think this is a I
think this is a legit idea. Like, and so we put out a good
idea and about have some kind of bounty. And bounty implies that
we have a certain thing we're wanting to develop. But this is
more like a hackathon. It's like we put out a prize let's just
say it's 3 million sets. And you say okay, there's 3 million sets
up for grabs the top like and then everybody who wants to
participate go and develop something super cool. That has a
podcast at least one podcasting 2.0 feature to it. And that can
be either lightning related or podcasting related or all of the
above and no rules. And then we and then when the when the when
the hackathon closes, it could go for like, you know, three
months or something like that. And then when it closes, we
check out all the projects and and do some press Is this okay,
two questions.
One, okay. Hackathons, aren't they supposed to be 48 hours? A
lot of coffee and pizza? What the hell is this three months
bull crap.
Well, when somebody comes in like, with us thinking the extra
time allotted because people may want to get in on this that
don't, it takes some time to get up and running in the podcast
world. Maybe they're not. There hasn't been any podcasting
hackathons to my knowledge. So we may have people coming in
from the from the Bitcoin world that don't know crap about
podcasting. And so
we're gonna, we're gonna call that's what I like about it. A
podcasting 2.0 hackathon. I'll go, I'll go get the prize money.
I'll get something bigger than 3 million SATs. Okay. Yeah, I'll
see if we can in. It'll probably be anonymous though.
Right? Why shouldn't this shouldn't the prize being SATs?
That's got to be in SATs? Yeah, of course. But it should be it
should be like 10 million or something. You know, something's
as I said, Knowing hackers if you give them three months, the
last two days will be 95.
I would like it to be a little shorter than the house calling
me go
away and maybe what maybe a month isn't the
timeline to be determined. Are we are we the jury?
The show is the jury at the board meeting is the jury
sketchy okay yes yeah, no. I don't want I don't want people
to get mad at us if we say well this is what we think is the
winner or do we have multiple well we can work it out. Great
idea
board is the board meeting is as a whole not just the two of us
will bring in some though. Bring an expert will bring Steven B
and bring bring some experts in.
Oh, man, guys,
have you guys been on Instructables, Instructables?
Yes. The website that shows you you can basically say I'm going
to show you how to make a water bottle rocket and then you know,
yeah, yeah. And then you show that step by step. They have
tons of contest on it, they have woodworking contest or concrete
contest or turning trash into treasure contest. And basically
everybody submits their instructable and then you may
have very similar things but they pick the grand prize winner
and a second place and third place. And now we've got several
projects that may be similar but now you've also got in this
ecosystem, different options for different people because maybe
someone doesn't like Halle pad maybe they want a different
thing. And just like we have different podcast apps, why
can't we have different booster gram display apps and we're
gonna do a really big I don't know squad cast, zoom or
something. And we'll just keep we'll just keep streaming live
and checking in with with each development team
24 724 hours a day stream? Yeah, exactly. No, I liked it. I liked
the idea of throwing, taking all the projects, put them together
in a repo and then throwing it out there to to the to the
community to say okay, now everybody vote or something.
We should get podcast creators involved in this.
Yeah, yeah.
That's the piece that's that's always missing. Well, I know
what I want for Christmas.
Maybe we throw it over to the Jupiter Branca to Chris Fisher
and his
There you go. Oh, there
you go. There podcasters in there and they do
on they understand. I don't know if they're coders necessarily.
Maybe I'll ping up. I'll ping Chris and see what he see what
he's taking on. Maybe we can put something together. Really fun.
And
Deb's over at Spotify and Apple you're welcome to everyone's
welcome to come in. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, no yen,
which by the way is the escape hatch for Spotify. And Mr. Eck?
Podcasting 2.0 Go forward, go go deep, baby. Go all the way
balls to the wall, in your walls, and everybody's welcome.
Everybody's welcome. Go forward, boom. You know, we'll cut you in
you take how many whatever split you want. Do whatever you want.
I won't promote you if you take it from my cut, but okay. So I
want to congratulate comics for blogger for being the first
space booster
was that the one that was the one Yeah,
I we had spectrum go down here and I just got my star link and
so my node was down for a few hours. I didn't even realize it
because I was messing around with the star link which worked
fine. And then comics your blogger pops up. I have all
green Bhagwan has not got this, how it is how he talks usually
when he's talking to me. And so which means Oh, something a
notice failing and of course and I I'm maintainer of the liquid,
Chief liquidity officer, clo clo and I was like, oh, okay, oh, my
note is down crap. Okay. So I hook it up to the to the Wi Fi
for the Starlink and he boosted again and it came through. Now
it takes a little longer as we discussed earlier when he's
doing tour and all kinds of other stuff. Oberstar link, but
it worked. So that was the first official space boost.
That's cool. Hey, did you guys know that? This Thursday the
seventh is when the first booster gram was sent? No, I
didn't know that who sent the first grams are still less than
a year old who sent the first booster gram. I sent it to Dave
because back when Oh, that's right jar. Yes. Yeah, they were
called. It's called a message boost. And then we were trying
to figure out whose name was payment messages or
a message boost. Oh, how far we've come in such a short
amount of time. We've granted that a year Can you believe
that?
Congratulations to match on the player in bed for pod verse. I
just saw that. I want to make sure I promote that because I
love those things. I love those little widgets you can put on
your page and we'll be using that.
What was that the July 7, he said was the anniversary of the
first boost?
Yeah, you're going back into the database.
Yeah, I was gonna see if I can find it. Here's what I'm gonna
do. I'm gonna find it. I'm going to turn it into an NST
Yeah, not you're talking. I'm gonna do a couple of our if you
guys don't mind, I just think a couple of the live boosters that
we've had throughout your show people who've probably heard the
sound popping through those that are that have a message. Tim
apple 10,000 SATs Happy Fourth of July weekend. Thank you Tim.
Mike Newman. There he is. 100,001 Satoshis. And his
booster gram this picture of JCD at Podcast Movement make this
happen. Yeah. I'd love to That'll be the day Yeah, right.
I can't get them on the plane. Blueberry 3333 h three h three.
Hey, he described in their own words and seven seconds. Oh, he
has some. Here's a link to a sound file. Okay, why not? Why
not go boys risky. Send me send me a dot exe man. Don't be a
pussy.
A VB scripts. Yeah,
that's VB script homeless. Let's see what do you sent in? Hold on
a second. I'll save this. It's risky because you don't know
what it could be. But we'll find
out. He's like this whole governmental body was scientists
and shit. They just tell us what to do. You don't have to think
about it.
Okay, completely uncompressed incomprehensible for the show.
No, no, appreciate it. 2222 from Macintosh go podcasting. And
there we have another 101,000 100,001 Satoshis from
Nike Mike Newman bringing his total today to 200,002 SATs we
roll that out for him Do we I think we roll it out for him
don't
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Sakala 20 is bleh
on am Paula is boosted gram live boosting is lit boost like
immediate people big thanks for the team PC two Oh from an
apprentice level podcasts are out here Special thanks to
Steven B. For his fearless running with sovereign feed says
there's gold podcast podcast Say
amen to that. Thanks Mike. Mike Mike is not exact he's not full
like three will motion on the in the in the Impala like you know
like Peter. But he's got he's got curved feelers. He's got the
he's got a little shiny bumper. He sees these Jason it up. Yeah,
definitely. Another 20 to 22 Row ducks from blueberry. We got
Carolyn, I'm sorry. And blueberry said insert boost
here. Okay. Carolyn 7777 striper boost. I saw I saw some live
music last weekend for the first time in years now the musician
was just singing and playing guitar next to him was a jar
that said tips. And of course, all I could think of were SATs
could live music 2.0 be a thing. Happy Independence Day from
Scandinavia. Happy Canada Day. Yes, of course. Of course. I
think that's I think that's exactly where everyone needs to
go. If you want to
ask she's got a QR code on a piece of paper in the tip jar.
There you go. There's an idea,
a lightning invoice.
I wanted to work on an app where the QR code is up on the screen
behind the band. And they should just scan that from your phone.
So instead of having your lighter up, you got your phone
and then you're streaming.
Oh, that's cool. Nice. I like that.
No, it's a cool idea. So then make the app when you scan the
QR code, make the payments and it flashes the flashlight and
turns the screen all kinds of colors.
Oh yeah. And your booster grams show? Yeah, now you're talking
when the audience can read it. Another way you can help the
band develop the place the next song whoever like whatever song
gets the most votes. Just the next one the band plays.
I've never been a fan of those things. In a live situation.
It's mostly because most bands can't play all of their songs.
There you go. Dude, I can't play that order and I was like, I
gotta change guitars.
I bet they practice the set as as it's going to be in the show.
Oh for sure. 100% Yeah, like comedians, it looks like they're
off the cuff but it's all scripted. What
do you think I'm we're reading a script here. I mean 42,000 SATs
from Boober a scissor lift he says will scissor you lift?
There you go. That's the one just came in as we were talking.
Oh, hello. 100,001 Satoshis from Dara no. Whoa, near and I
podcast therefore I am another VIG for unrelenting planet rage
random thoughts grumpy old Ben's on the rock'n'roll pre show.
Yeah, I talk a lot. Thank you for your courage. And he and I
think they're all 2.0 he you know the rock'n'roll pre show is
that he solicits booster grams and doesn't live on the air
during the show. I mean, this is this is a real thing we got
going on here.
That he's fully live every every time before the show.
On Thursdays Yep.
Yep. We got Are you done? Are you done?
Yeah, that was alive. I guess. Yeah.
We got some papers we get Oscar and the boys at fountain $200
Whoa. Thank you. But it's uh, thank you guys.
Yeah, we appreciate that very much. That's a that's a
subscription. They do that monthly.
I love it very much. Appreciate. Thank you very much.
We got a $75 single one time donation from Boston venture
studio. I don't know who that is. And there was no note that
we're we appreciate it. Thank you very much.
Boston venture studio wonder if that name rings a bell. Maybe
our buddy Michael. Will used to be in Boston?
Man, I don't know. We'll see. I don't know. That's it doesn't
matter. We
love you no matter what.
It's like inky tail. That's the front. That's the front
organization for
what was it called Boston. For Boston.
Boston venture studio. Yes. spook spook out. Bradley
chambers. He is did a new subscription for $5 a month and
we thank you, Bradley. Appreciate that. We also
Bradley, you know, he wrote an article about us and about
podcasting. 2.0 and 95. Mac.
Yeah, that's that's that was a great article. Really appreciate
it. Yeah, for sure thing it really, you know, and he caught
he put up and I think it's important for nine to five Mac
to say, Hey, Apple, you should pay attention to this.
Yeah, it made a lot of sense. And he and I really appreciated
the way he went about it. He he didn't pre write an article,
like and then ask for our comment. Yeah, he he asked for
information up front and then and communicated with us and
then wrote an article. You know, with that in mind, it's I don't
know. It was just a good experience. Yeah.
Yes. As journalism goes, That was a very good experience. Yes.
Yes. It's always good to have the activist on your side of the
camp.
We've got that's Pay Pal. We got some histograms.
All right. Posties let's go everybody. Hey
Carolyn 3333 sets through fountain he says looking out at
the lake listening to podcasting. 2.0 booths is your
lake Lake booth looking at the lake right now. That would be
nice. Net Ned 3333 through fountain and he just says
thanks.
You're welcome. Thank you. How you doing booster. Roy
Roche on sale 54,321 cents nicely breeze? And he says trust
the free market. Adam.
Yes. I recall reading that somewhere. I saw that comment.
We know when I saw that came in is when I sent you a note I said
dude, are you getting the the 2.0 booster grams at home on
your umbrella? You like no tall man. You gotta have these. I put
the sage stay safe node. Stay safe in the in the splits. And
that is not your name. Your notes called stay safe. Yeah,
yes. Right. And have you been watching on helipad?
I have been. I've I've been. I've been noticing. Mostly how
long it takes hell a pad to open and I don't know why.
It's that. That first open? It takes a long time. Well, you
know, when you start getting a lot of SATs,
it slows down. Yeah. Well, maybe lnd Point. Point 15 will fix all
that for everybody. It'll be great because it's just gonna
shrink the database. Terrifying. Oscar marry 15 hasn't sat
through fountain of course.
Very nice. Thank you very many. And
we have we have a lot at least booster clubs here that didn't
mention our discussion from last week. Obviously, it was a bit a
lot of people had thoughts about that. So, Oscar says for non
premium users fountain as a 5% fee on top of the splits, we do
this to preserve the numerology of the boosts. So if you send
1000 Set 100 sets 100 sets will go to whatever is in the splits
and then we add an extra five sets for the fee that is shown
in the transaction history as visually distinct from the
splits along with a prompt to premium God casters using our
podcast or wallet, we also charge a one to 4% fee, which
will appear in the split as it's on the podcaster side. Excellent
transaction
that's transparent and nice new and I would still say Oscar
consider opening that up letting people add more to your fee.
Yeah, 100% Yeah, for sure.
Let them let them add whatever they want. Maybe a fixed amount
instead of a percentage, whatever, whatever you want to
add a button with it with a monthly subscription. There's a
million things that can be done, but I really liked that. That
sounds pretty fair to me.
That's Dave Jones. Life lesson or life motto number 36. Never
stop people from giving you more money. Yes. 55,555 says To cast
a magic boost regarding fees and boosting. I think the numerology
is extremely important and might be getting lost somewhere for
some podcasters. For instance, when I listened to the
everything everywhere daily podcast, the boost amounts their
reading are clearly after the fees, not the originally boosted
amounts. Sure what needs to be fixed here?
Well, it depends on what they're using. What are they using to
get those amounts because the TLV record Shen's sends the
total sets, that's what helipad does. So even though we get we
do not receive 100,001 Satoshis that's the number what goes into
the wallet is different than what's displayed. So I wonder
what they're using as as a booster Graham reader.
Okay, he says, service is hella patches, full amount, Satoshi
stream nothing does not. Ah, so maybe Satoshi stream these Penny
memo
memo Satoshi stream? Yep.
Let's see hard hat. Sorry. Sin is 22,222 long row of ducks the
curio caster? Yes. I happen to know the developer of curio
caster personally. Yeah, he's a good guy.
He is He's great. He's all right. He's a Texan. We like
him.
He's breakfast for lunch. So it's even he's top notch fella
fried eggs and bacon. defending myself, I have no problem paying
for apps. And I do pay for apps. My main issue is fees hiding
under a value for value umbrella, when they aren't
really value for value. The app can make their own value for
value pitch to the users. How much how much do you want our
cut to be kind of thing? If the fees are set by the app? How is
that value for value? That's my issue. That's a good point.
I think that's exactly what I'm saying. He's saying exactly what
I'm saying. He says if you will and I'm adding to that. Fear not
my developing friends. When you ask thou shall be rewarded with
many trinkets of goodness ancient proverb it is an ancient
podcasting proverb and it just works I can't explain it it
evens out. And Dave Have I not told you this and have you not
seen this come true in the past two years? Yeah, for sure. Okay,
I want a little more like oh yeah, you know, really I was
skeptical and then my eyes have been
opened my eyes I was I was knocked off my horse by the
light.
Okay, good. That at least we're clear on that.
BK H MTV Okay, BK GMTV through fountain and he said he said his
four for 20 sets haha yeah, he says 5 million sets boost holy.
Exactly. was a
fire and a face. I've got my emoticons working now.
And you know, I've been trying to balance our Ellen pay
channel, which is really difficult because we have like
seven and a half million SATs on our side. And it was a two and a
half million on on the incoming. So if someone wants to do a pay
to our booster wouldn't even work necessarily. We have lots
of other incoming liquidity but I don't know if an amp if an amp
payment would work or not.
It was total like you're just like throwing a message in a
bottle into the ocean and hoping somebody comes to rescue you
Yeah, I mean, we have all the liquidity incoming but not
necessarily through Ellen pay. So I don't know if LNP looks for
alternate routes, so they split it up or is it all was straight
through one channel?
shirts? Yeah, undefined. Yeah. At dude, send us 10,000 SAS
through fountaining. He says apps should be able to charge
any fee they want. As long as it's advertised. Dave is
correct. In stating that it will be self correcting. There you
go.
Okay. We don't have to get into the argument again.
That's fine. No, no, I don't want to get into I
don't want to I'm sorry. I think I think I've made I've beaten
the horse into a pulp.
No, I think that it's a learning process. Yeah. There's a lot of
stuff. This is all very, very new. I mean, it's one thing to
say apps. It's one thing to say apps shouldn't be sold for a
specific price. It's another thing to say. Okay. Yeah, but
what does that look like? They go. Right. Sure. Sure. And that
is what what we are trying to figure out and I am, I don't
want to, I don't want to act as if I don't want people to, to
hear this as if, as if I am advocating for necessarily for
one specific thing. I just speaking for myself, personally,
I'm trying to advocate like, I just learned something a while
ago, this, this idea Harv had his idea that they should that
the app should make a pitch and then let us have like a slider
or something to do your own percentage. Yeah. I never
thought about it that way. Like maybe I should have thought
about it that way. Maybe you've explained it in ways and other
people have explained it. And I've been sick headed and missed
it. Yes. But some? Yes. Okay.
No, no, but I readily admitting it. No, but I'm, I'm with you.
And here's here's I tried to explain that. Here's the part I
messed up. I never considered how the Ask works for a
developer. Yeah, that was that was Yeah. And so and it just
dawned on me in this past week, like, oh, okay, of course, you
know, developers. First of all, you're beaten down and you've
been abused by Silicon Valley into 99 cents or do some ads or
whatever, you've been browbeaten, you really have very
little chance of success. Where's the value for value
model for it? I'm sure of it. Every bone in my body says, you
know, that's content to you know, it's just packaged
differently. And when you ask someone and explain which you
have to do in podcasting, to they will step to step up to the
plate. The question is, how does that manifest itself in in
software, how does that work? And how do you how do you
without, you know, falling into the traps of ticklers and pop
ups and fold overs and whatever? You know, so and how do you make
that because I guarantee you just like a small podcast
audience can support one podcast. It works you know,
there's Look at this. This is this podcast is really the
conduit to support the entire podcast index.org You're soaking
in it, Mabel.
Nobody's gonna get that reference.
No, it's not even Mabel. Who was it from Palmolive.
I don't remember there's a match,
match, match match. You're soaking in it match. It's it's a
great problem to work on. I'm very excited about it.
I'm comfortable saying that is a model of apps. Being able to do
value for value in this way with programmable money has never
been done before. Correct. I mean, I can't programmable money
that's able to do microtransactions like this.
This has only been around for a couple of years. This is all
brand new. Nobody's I mean, there's no way that Steven the
you could have known what this market is even supposed to look
like. I mean, you have no idea what what to charge how to
charge any of this stuff like you just have to stumble through
until you find the thing that works.
But what I like about the programmable money is you don't
have to have a link to buy me a coffee and then you've got to
put in your credit card information and there's all
these steps for it. It's just a boost me $1 And it's just click
that button and it comes right out of the
water. I'm gonna stop you. I'm gonna stop you. Don't say boosts
me $1 You're gonna get $1
Okay, I hear what you're saying with the Hey, boost me what what
do you think this is worth?
Yeah. In your own words yeah yeah
even say you could even do do their stats back to him to say
hey you hey just there you go you listened to you used curio
caster this this past month for in and listen to 27 hours of
podcasts consider given us what do you think? Yeah we know and
you boosted this much could you tell you know could you pitch in
some for us this much whatever those languages
IceCube soup has a script for developers send me your money
okay now that's not quite go but script.
Yeah pull that up Karen for the mere mortals podcast 9292
Cheerio Castor.
Very nice. Thank you, sir.
A nap have heard of. And he says, I love listening to you
guys. It's an ethics lesson with real life implications with more
value for value solve this, ie the app asking users to pay what
they think is fair. I don't run a business and don't know if
this can work on larger entities. Any examples you to
know of?
Yeah, I think we've just gone through all of them.
All of them. Yeah. Yeah. A severe lack of examples is
probably the biggest issue. There you go. gasp eland 117 set
through fountain and he says so far I've earned 117 says How was
the sustainable? Like the fee discussion? I don't want to I
don't want a subscription to fountain and like the fees if
that are like the fees of that are okay, so far, so good. Well,
I'm not sure what. Guess another drug donation. George Orwell
gave us 1100 Oh, oh. 1111 that's what that is. Through fountain
he says. Hope how's it going with Robert Jensen. He never
talks about podcasting. 2.0
Well, they're up on podcasting. 2.0 I boost regularly. And it's
a process you know, he's just he has, because I've been talking
to him since the pandemic started when he went value for
value, I convinced him to go value for value. He tried to
come up with his own version, you know, different different
versions of value for value, who's now just starting to
understand he's getting the words. And this is a
professional broadcaster, which I think makes it actually much
harder for him. So he's just getting his feet wet with with
with like, the Dutch Pay Pal system. getting that to work.
He's already he already knows he has to go to 2.0 because he'll
be he'll be financially D platformed. Pretty soon. Yeah,
no, it's and he's, he's not even in the Alex Jones X 22 level. I
mean, at all.
You know, he's mild compared to that. Probably more
like Megyn Kelly, honestly, from a content perspective and a
controversy which she's controversial.
I didn't think the or the Dutch that strict.
I mean, the Dutch, the Dutch media and government fucking
locked down tight, brother. They're steps ahead of us here.
Are you kidding me? Oh, wow. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. They're way
ahead of us in that stuff. Oh, yeah. Okay. It's like the UK.
You know, they've got language laws now. You can't say on
social media. So that's all coming to podcasting. Anyway. He
will. He will eventually be Oh, S T. He will eventually.
I haven't heard that one before. That was Kevin Bay 50,000 SATs
through fountain aces, baby. Yay. As a user, I would rather
control what I pay for the apps, what I pay the apps rather than
they take from the podcaster off the top. That's the only way
it's transparent apps should inform the user what they're
taking as soon as the wallet is set up. That sounds
right. I like that
the silver owl sent us oh this is very it's very native
American indigenous peoples the silver our son is 16 111 sets.
And he says regarding Oh through through breeze. And he says
regarding Sloot's donation, they are correct. 53163 does equals
1611 times 33. But when BTC equals 1 million, a set will be
one penny not $1. Truth. We're by the way for me. Before we
knew it
for the software developers who are going to work on their ask
be whereas the following message I was going to support you. I
was just deciding how much until you've removed this button
change this thing didn't answer my those people have never
supported you never will. And they're part of a category of
people who are always looking to tell you their excuse for not
supporting you.
Is there a name for this type of person? Yes.
Douchebag.
Okay.
Have you found the people who complain the most are the ones
who don't give any support?
Absolutely. 100% if they're complaining now, someone who is
your partner in value for value and loves what you're doing and
is supporting you, they're approaching you, you will feel
it immediately written DM whatever, like, Oh, this is
someone who really appreciates what I'm doing, and wants to
work with me. They can still have a complaint about how
something functions are whatever, but they will be
respectful and you'll know it right away.
Have you guys heard of The Pareto principle or the 8020
principle?
What 80% of your money comes from 20% of your customers?
Yeah, and 80% of your complaints come from 20% of your customers,
that would be the not the 20% that no hoarding, you know, it's
more
like value for value 4% of your listeners or of your users will
be supporting you. And 96% will be complaining. Something
like that, lyceum.
And by the way, go ahead. It happens very often that someone
will pop up and say, Hey, man, I've been I've been listening to
your show using your app, fill in the blank. For five years, I
realize I've never given him anything, so I'm making up for
it. And people do $2 An episode. It's you'll be amazed every
single time when you leave it open they'll come up with their
own reasons. Because someone who can can say they have reasons
not to the people the percentage of people come up with their own
reasons is really astounding. And it's it's a number it's a
message it's a thing it's a suggestion, etc. All right, and
rant.
Lyceum gave us 1200 61 SATs through fountain he says from my
tweet Lyceum para para Rippetoe dose. Adam curry Davis keeping
the ducks in the row and podcast index Oregon good shape. I think
the marketplace will self regulate itself regarding Fees
and Cuts of the pie. I will send you 12 161 SATs see screenshot.
The best premises, Martin Linda Skog
Ah, he's from Sweden, I think.
Okay, yeah. Do you know what nationality was key?
Yeah, I've seen his name pop up on Korean the keeper a couple
other things. Yeah. Thanks, Martin.
Yeah, and he tweets us a lot on Twitter. You hacked me not?
Through fountain gave us 9400 SATs and he says sup dudes.
Thank you. Please look for my email. I send it to info at
podcast index.org Go podcasting.
Podcast.
Goodness. I don't know if I get an email from him. Did you get
an email? He's I
am curious. The eyes maybe? Oh, wait a minute. What's his name?
hack me not. Is his internet handle.
hack me not? Yes. His email is very long. But he's, yeah, I
mean, oh, here's a one choice line the idea of charging a fee
on Satoshis donated or streamed is app suicide in my opinion.
It's emboldened app suicide as they're competing with a free
alternative Cash App. Okay.
Oh, yeah, I did get this I wonder why I lost this email.
I have the email but it's very so he has he has a lot of
different suggestions. You know what I would appreciate hack me
not repost whatever you want of this on a no agenda social. At
no agenda, podcast index dot socialists. It's just a little
too long to read through on the show. But you have some good
points. And I think it would be good for the conversation. And
in general, in general, people on podcasts index on social. I'm
not a big fan of DMS. If you have an opinion, I think you
should say it publicly.
Yet, the only time I like DMS or when something is potentially
like sometimes somebody will DM me and say, Hey, if you need
some help with with such and such I'm free this day. It's
just stuff that's like personal,
personal scheduling personal nation that kind of stuff. Yeah,
exactly. But if it's general
commentary, don't yet don't DM that everybody needs to see and
be able to comment on hanging up by followed up with another 9400
Sassy so here's a second 90 407 Boost sent with the found
premium. Can you tell me the difference in the actual amount
received between this and my first boost?
Yeah, Oh,
I can let you know I'm gonna set this aside now. And I'll do that
after the fact. If you will get on podcasts indexes social and
ping me there. I will. I will look it up for you. Joel Wu says
333 SATs through fountain and then he says, What about a
customized split option? Keep the current splits as default
but allow people to adjust as they see fit.
Say that again?
What about a customized split option? Keep the current splits
as default but allow people to adjust as they see fit. And
that's been done before. And I think most of the developers
have taken that out.
Yeah. But you still get a Fauci boost.
Boost. Sir beat 1000 sets through cast dramatic cases,
hey, it's not your money to spend or split. It's our
experience. That total experience is built up from all
the things content, app and access. All we need is a means
to send and spread the value we experience. Any other scenarios
will feel like a subscription or some other thing we want to get
away from if app builders or whoever want a predictable
subscription like experience, then they should offer just
that. But let them make a pay per tick scheme in their app.
Don't just stand there boost. Makes sense? Yep. All the
options are being explored. Cast peatland again, yeah, 3690 SAS
and he says, Thanks.
Well, thank you. Cass. You're welcome.
Oh, gosh. I'm going to try this name again. Can you
is that Tanisha? Yeah, can you can you can you?
Can you can Isa 500 SATs through fountain needs his first boost
from the fountain app. Thank you. First boost Kenny. Or
whatever? I sound very Hebrew when I say that. Yeah.
Well, the Dutch and what is the word? I'm looking for? Yiddish?
Very close to each other. Can you hear that? Yeah. Oh, yeah.
I wonder how that works. Historically.
Dude, Carla, a lot of complicated
in the in the
well, that were up until 1945. And then we lost them all. I
don't know where they went. And we had a lot of them. We got a
lot left with numbers on their arms. You know? Yeah. Well,
yeah. I grew up in that. Man. You you grew up in a whole
different perspective. When your your friend's grandmother has
numbers tattooed on her arm, you think a little differently about
humans?
So there was a big Jewish population before the war? Yes.
Okay. Yes. Is that who is that go back to the founding of the
lowlands?
Oh, goodness. I couldn't answer that with any accuracy. I
really? I really don't know. I don't know.
Well, we got it. We got plenty of Jewish listeners that let us
know. Pirate hodl sent us 3333 sets to fountain nice as well. I
agree. That is good for the app fee to be added on top of the
boost. You'd have to admit in this world of shit coins and
scams, that some apps will exist that pass that cost on to the
Creator. Perhaps hella pad could flag boosts where the TLV is
very with a TLV versus actual mountain mismatches? That's a
pretty interesting idea. In an extreme case of creator
retaliation, you could refuse to read such boosts on the air.
Yeah, well, I think we're solving this already. I mean,
I'm not worried about that. Now. I think we've got enough of the
I mean, I'm not worried about it. Because the first and I
think fountain is seeing some of that success. Now they have
other financial resources that are helping them get there. But
there's software that I still use today that I've been using
for 15 years. And every year I send a donation you know, it's
like people will send you more than anything you in your
wildest dreams. If you leave it open ended and ask Oh
no. Yeah, that doesn't need doesn't need any commentary from
me. I think I think that yeah, yeah, Mexico says, Pirate hello
again. 3333. And he says instead of a normal key send key. Could
you could you add app placeholder as one of the
splits? That way the Creator signals a fee they're willing to
pay the app then insert their own key on the fly was an
interesting idea.
Yeah, I thought of something like that as well. But I also
feel that's that's not for the I mean, if I want to give
something to an app, I'll put them in my split. Yeah, and
that's what that's what we do with curio caster, like put them
in the split because sovereign feeds you know, whatever. Boom,
boom, boom, just put stuff in there.
Nomad Joe sent us 1000 SATs through fountaining says show
fees on new podcast Apps page. Also an interesting idea. We
could put that in at To the JSON. There you go block. In
that way when people add themselves it's pull request on
the site. It could go in there too,
but I would prefer people try an app out and not base it on cost.
Because you know, you try an app out. It's like, oh, well, you
know, that's worth more I don't know, man.
Yeah. A lot of good a lot of good comments here. Love it,
love. Yeah,
yeah, this is this is the first really I mean, this is real
content that's coming in here on these booster grams.
More it's from Alby Oh, hey. 2100 SATs through pod verse and
he says what do you think of a leaderboard for received value
for value payments? Yeah, that that's something I would love to
do all in for this show. Yeah,
all in Yeah. And I would love to have a leaderboard. Why not give
me a leaderboard from curio caster for my SATs? This is as
an extra service I'd put you in yet another split for that.
What do you mean by that? Like,
give me a leaderboard for all for pot for my podcasts, maybe
one maybe all of them combined the leaderboard of people who
supported those the most in the app next to my podcast.
Okay, so but that would just be the people using curio caster to
support
no right and correct Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and I can add that to help add to this thing James was one
that the other day too that's cool. I like that. Mister Mister
did use 330
Did you say you can add that tailpipe?
No, I said I can add that to Hello, Pat. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm
at 1000 miles an hour. Okay. Mr. Mr. Sin is 333 SAS who found it
and he says defrag me my first boost of all time many more to
go Mr. Mr.
Welcome to the club. defragmented you our
first boost party. See a Chris You know, send us 10,000 SATs
through fountain and he says the discussion of ways to support
podcasting 2.0 apps got me thinking. What are your thoughts
on the podcast index supporting or facilitating feature
bounties? We just talked about that. Hey, users list the
feature right
now millennial girl.
Users list the features they would like to see in podcasting
two point out apps and pledge and amount of sets. They will
contribute when that feature gets added. This would let apps
know which features users want most and support development as
it features I'm I'm game somebody write it. Somebody that
develop it. Let's do it. Cool. McCormick one. sent us Puck is
Eve 2222 Road ducks through fountain. He says podcasting 2.0
is like Back to the Future when George McFly punches Biff in the
face changing the future for the better. We are McFly. Go podcast
go podcast.
Sir Spencer, from the bulls with buds. Send us 54,321 Sam.
Nice
boost. Thanks, man. He says counting down to the Steven Bell
appearance. He says PS what's the total set count requirement
for one of those 60 new T shirts. This gets me to the 200k
so far from fountain not counting Brees and curio caster
booths always spreading the good word of podcasting. 2.0
What is it? What is the current price? I think it's was at 100
and $125.
Yeah, so what about 300? Something like that? Is that
what that is?
No. No, it's
more I can't do math during the show and I'm brain hurts. Yeah.
I think it's more like 7000 isms
that the show comes to a halt. It really does.
Yeah, sorry about that.
Kill 100 1000s Bow Bow Bow. 20 bucks now.
100,000 is 20 bucks. Yeah. Brent now, is that right? Yeah, I
guess I guess you're right. 20 So yeah, okay, so
60 566 150 650,000 Satoshis
656 5656. The Comic Strip blogger the delimiter yay.
15,033 sets. He says how he podcasting 2.0 team. Do you know
that Russian missile strikes on civilian targets in Ukraine like
apartment buildings and shopping malls still continue? Anyways,
please enter your web browser. Please enter into your web
browser or any podcast app. Ai dot cookie. To listen to British
voice of Gregory William Forsythe Forman from Kent
talking about latest AI news yo
yo who wasn't on the mastodon that podcasting next on social
that asks you know, like, I want to put some money towards
marketing I said yeah this is a proven strategy you boost all
these different shows and people know about your stuff he says
are you kidding me? Are you saying it's a joke said no look
at comics or Blogger he does it every week. But on a whole bunch
of different shows. My wife if I say hey if you want to know
about artificial artificial intelligence she say AI dot
cooking not that she would listen to it but she does she
would know where to go.
Yeah. And he brings in his politics too. You can feel free
I mean, love it boosters with the with everything you got
nothing's off limits. Good.
No. Was that the last one to
eliminate those last night last week got some monthlies now
while there was one
live boosted came in while we were talking 26,260 from sup Yo
sup at work but hopped up on a LIVE TAG to boost
nice All right,
yeah. What's your sup Yo sup?
We get some monthlies through the pay pals. We get Chad Farrow
20 $20.22 Thank you Chad. Chad. Scott, Scott Jalbert $12 Thank
you. Scott Lowe Retta Vandenberg $10 Pedro gun Cal has $5 Aaron
Renaud $5. dribs got the original end of podcasting. $15
Jeff Miller $20 Thank you, Jeff. Michael Kimmerer 533 $5.33
Leslie mill nosey Martin $2. And Stu coats the evil $6.66. That's
it.
That's it. eautiful beautiful. Thank you all very much. Thank
you for supporting us value for value. I think we've explained
it by now. But the whole project runs open. And it's open to your
interpretation. If you appreciate what's going on here
because you like the development you want to support podcasting.
You hate the mainstream media. That's possible. You can do you
can hate boost. You can hate support. It's okay here. Hate
boosting is my favorite thing to do. By the way. I do 50,000 sat
hate boosts to crow Cridland. Yeah, all the time. And love it.
Want to make sure he didn't get his attention? They'll do it. Go
to podcast index.org. Down at the bottom you can see a big red
donate button. Actually, I did not check the tally coin to see
if anyone came in through a plain old plain old Bitcoin
donation. But from there, you can get to our Pay Pal. And you
can also Yeah, okay. Actually, you can also donate through
lightning, I think right?
Yeah, yeah, I
think so. Let me just check and see if we didn't miss anything.
Because those are typically bigger boosts are bigger
support, see, we go visit and the sum total is none. Okay. Of
course, everybody.
Steven, do you show anywhere? You mentioned a leaderboard on
your ad, do you show anywhere? Is that data available already?
To show that, like when people are boosting? You
know, I don't want to have it being saved to the database. And
honestly, I just looked at it I posted on the index, like who
the top boosters were or the or the top podcast. And that's the
first time I looked at the data and probably eight months.
Okay, yeah, that's think that'd be really gonna be really cool
idea. On let me ask you about something else that pod pain.
Are you? So are you sending a live pod pain with sovereign
feeds now when when an app goes live? I mean, when a podcast
goes live,
yeah, they have the ability to push the button because they
need to upload the their feed to their server first, since that's
the source of truth. So they can after they've done that, come
back and press the live feed, which I think is what Adam is
doing for no agenda. Yep.
Okay, and that. So how are you doing? Then I'm curious about
what the back end looks like. Did did Alex help you is are
using a script that he did like a Docker script or something?
Yeah, it's a Google Cloud Function that he's got in the
GitHub repo. And I have no idea what's going on with it. I just
follow his instructions. And it magically works.
Love that's, that's who needs more.
But so that's C where is that? Is that in the pod pain? Is that
the hive writer? Repo maybe?
Um, I don't know. Let me see if I could find out and get up real
quick.
Because I'd like to point other people to that if it's something
that's that they can implement themselves. Yeah, I
mean, I think it cost me a penny a month. Using Google Cloud
Functions,
oh, well, let's see tests. Hive writer. Maybe I thought he had
some examples in here. I don't know. We'll find it. If I can
find it by the end of the show was maybe stick in the show
notes?
Yeah, I'll, I'll put it on the social.
Okay. All right. Let's go with what else you got? What else you
got coming up? You got your you got? You got Dropbox integration
everything Do you have you have anything else on the radar maybe
you are used your next step is AI social, social interact or
anything
social interacts working with? With that I don't know that I'm
going to next up is getting the wallet stuff fixed. I've got a
few issues were one is Ellen pay, you can send your boost
synchronously or async. The problem was synchronously is if
you've heard if you've seen on the social, there's lots of
complaints that fountain takes a while for the boost to go
through. And that's because you can only send one boost at a
time because if the wallets busy processing that it won't process
the next one. Yep. You can also send them a sink. And it'll just
put it in a queue on Ellen pay servers. But the issue with that
is I've had people who are trying to do a live boost. And
LM pay doesn't get to processing it until 12 hours later. Oh,
shit. So yes, it was weird. Like I was looking at the logs. And
it was the next morning before I saw that the funds had been
taken out of the wallet to
do processes, though. That's the amazing process. Amazing harm
right there.
Yeah, when a guy is trying to do a live boost, he's expecting it
to be read. And I understand the complaints. Because if it's not
read on the show, then it's just like, oh, well, did that boost
go through? Yeah. Because I'm kind of hiding the mess so that
when you hit that boost button, it looks like all the stats are
taken out of your wallet. But it may be several minutes before
everything's actually processed.
You mentioned I think you mentioned maybe a week or so ago
that you were switching LNP from LNP to lb. Is that right?
Yeah, so I've been working with the lb development team. And
they are trying to develop an API so that you can use owl B
and connect to that API, so you're not having to use a
browser extension. And that way on a mobile device, you can
still use Albea because I'd much prefer people be able to use
their own wallets and albies got it so that you can tie into your
Umbral node or into your, your voltage node,
even even on even on a mobile browser.
Yeah, that's how that's supposed to work is you connect all that
stuff through Alby and then I can talk to albies. Back in
through the API.
Oh, cool. Yeah, wallets. I've
never wanted to host wallets. But I think the value, the value
block is so important and being able to boost and stream that
I've been willing to do it until better solutions come along.
You're coming?
Yeah, that's a good, that's a good thing, because so I'll be a
sort of the bridge there. And so you've got your wallet. And then
you've got the app. And so the Alby acts as the interface layer
between
the offense and like the authentication through the web
browser, you're logged in. That's cool. That's a good way
to do it.
Having an API will be would be great. Cool. Are
these are these mysterious? Owl bee guys? I don't know. They're
like Germany. Ah, you have all of this makes all the sense now.
Hello, Deutschland.
There's another team out there called mash. And they have I
want to say it was $6 million dollars of VC money they got and
they're doing a similar thing. It's not open source, like Alby
is, but I've messed around with their stuff a little bit. And
it's already set up that you can hit a boost button in the app.
And even in a mobile device, it will open up the interface. But
they're not as far along as LB is with the development of that.
Yeah, I
would honestly I'd rather really support the lb guys who are open
are part of the community already.
Yeah. And I love that they've opened up podcaster wallets for
people. Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, that's, that's fantastic. Yeah, let's get the lb guys on
the show. Yeah, you guys are
really doing a lot of good stuff for for podcasting. 2.0
Are you working with Moritz over there as you're talking to Oh,
yeah,
there's been more it's and then Bumi and boom, figured out the
other guy's is he's the actual developer.
Yeah, yeah. I'll reach out to him. We get we'll get him on the
show. I'm sorry. that'll be good. Yeah. So that's the one.
That's the one weak point is on the on the AP side. It's always,
so far, it's just been LM fe. And to have another option, I
think is a sign of market growth anyways, yeah, we really need
Yeah, yeah, for
sure. And an LM pays got issues, but I'm so thankful for what
Ellen pay has done. Because we, if we didn't have Ellen pay, you
could basically use breeze to stream stuff. Almost all the
other apps are using Ellen pay, I think, a pod station that
Guillermo is out. He's got a deal where you can tie into your
actual node, I think. But yeah, we just we wouldn't have had be
as far along with boosting and streaming if it wasn't for LNP
Oh, yeah. 100% I do wish that he would lower his model I can't
afford $100 A month when when curio caster is bringing in $20
a month. But I think well, that service he provides like, I
would totally give him the $20 but I think a lot of these early
apps, they see that $100 And he's been very generous. He's
not charging that to any of the podcasting 2.0 apps. But when I
see that on his website, there's a lot of people who bristle at
that. It's like, Man, I can't afford $100 For this startup
idea.
Well, he's following Adam Curry's third rule of business.
I'll give you the I'll give you all three. Number one, don't run
out of money. Number two, don't negotiate against yourself. And
number three, if you don't want to do something, raise the
price. All right. And so so he's he's signaling to you his
desires. And I can understand where he's coming from. So
during this and he seems like he's doing okay with that, with
that model.
So far, so good, but we would having maturity of more
services, more wallets, and you know, the mythical green light
on its way. Yeah, next month, a unicorn. Six months? Yeah. I
believe it's
months ago. No, I didn't. weego Six weeks
ago, for sure. Yes. weeks ago, for sure.
Yeah. Well, it's yeah, it's come at that. This is what you know,
on the lightning side of things. I always find it interesting to
find it humorous to do you, either of us subscribe to the
lightning mailing list developer mailing list.
Yeah, I don't read it all the time. Sometimes, like, not
subscribed. I read everything I read.
You read it all. You read it all. You read it all.
There's, there's this there's this funny, passive
aggressiveness that goes on between the sea lightning people
and the lnd people. It's all good.
I'll bet
somebody will propose somebody from lnd will propose something.
And then the response from some from the CLSC lining person is
like, oh, it's interesting that you think that way. You know,
considering that you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's
like totally passive aggressive. Oh, yeah. Slow Motion social
media is what this is gonna
sound goodness. Yeah. Anyway, mailing list. It's just
the it's just a young, the whole thing, John, it's just gotten
Yeah,
I feel like we haven't ticked off anything off your list from
last week. Dave.
The only thing we ticked off of the list was the podcasting. 2.0
hackathon. Down here and everything else is still there.
Well, at least we got one off the list. Yeah.
Oh, wait, window two cuz I had on here. Anchor is getting the
boot. So we did. We did.
Yeah, we did do that. Hey, Steven. Man, I feel kind of
guilty and bad that we still haven't connected in in real
life. I think what happened is first I think your family got
COVID And we got COVID. And then you know, other things happened?
Did you have a kid too?
No, thankfully, okay, it's enough for me man.
But we're definitely gonna hang man we got we have to do that.
There's too many people in this area. We should do a larger hang
as well.
Are you going to Podcast Movement? Steven,
I'm not. And you know what, Mike? Mike Newman was real
generous and offered me a room but it just doesn't work with my
schedule to be up in Dallas for a few days. It doesn't work
with my schedule either believe me? Yeah. Doing shows from hotel
rooms no good.
Yeah. And honestly the only reason I'd want to go is to meet
with the podcasting 2.0 Guys, all that marketing and shaking
hands with people. That's a that is not my jam.
Like heard heard chef heard.
I can If I can do it, I won't say that I like it, but I can do
it. I can make it work for a few days. I'm
excited about going and by the way, Dave, I've determined that
we're not going to split a room. You know, I think you know, I'm
58 almost like I need my own room your your you need your own
room. Okay, but maybe we get an air b&b. Maybe we have to see.
I'm like, is there anything available? We'd like we're way
too late with this shit, aren't we? Even though we probably
about this?
I mean, I'm bringing the tent.
I wish I still had the Airstream. That would have been
so much fun.
I'll put the back of the truck. Yeah, I'm driving. I'm driving.
I'm driving mostly because I don't I just don't want the
hassle and the headache of the
worst. It's not worth I'm not traveling anymore. I'm only
traveling on if I can get a direct flight somewhere, which
is not usually is not happening. But otherwise Screw it. I'll
drive or not go. system is broken. Systems broken. Same
watch for the headlines. Monday, Fourth of July. Traffic airports
meltdown, weather, weather and personnel issues. Wet weather,
weather. Ah, Stephen brother, thank you so much, man. For all
you do. Thank you for being a big part of this really, really
is all your all your work is so appreciated, especially
sovereign feeds, selfishly again. But I think this has been
so important to have this to be able to create feeds with all of
the nut job features before they're even fleshed out. Right.
To run with scissors. I start off by saying you are you are
the official supplier. Because it's really it's made a huge
difference in my life. So thank you again, for
all your way. And thanks, guys. This is a this has been a lot of
fun. I liked the community that podcasting 2.0 has built up
around it. And I really I'm excited to start bringing
musicians into it. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. That's my big
push with sovereign feeds with the drop box is I really want to
start seeing value enabled musicians.
This way. Oh, yeah. I love that.
Well, that's awesome. With your development process, your
acumen, you will totally figure it out. Because you adjust that
UI and the UX to such a degree that it really draws people into
the app. You're really good at that.
For sure. Thanks for the compliment. I always worry that
my changes are for the worse.
Oh, no. Sometimes they screw up my life incredibly. Okay. That's
part of it, man. That's what I love. That's what I love. It's
all the bumps and warts that make it all worth it.
DAVE Yes,
I love you Dave.
I love you, Adam.
All right, everybody. We'll be back next week with another
board meeting. And podcasting 2.0 Have a great weekend for
Fourth of July see you everybody bye bye.
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